‘Will have a huge chilling effect’: Trump shutters and kneecaps health agencies in first week

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...Z1S?ocid=socialshare

Epidemiologist Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, critical care physician Dr. Michael Anderson, and Forbes Senior Editor Alex Knapp join Nicolle Wallace to discuss Trump’s pause of health research including for research in cancer that could create a huge domino effect – and a huge chilling effect on the medical community.

=======================================


WHY?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/heal...8ce5895883fcb6&ei=63

New Trump administration brings changes to US health agencies
29m • 3 min read

Well, about time someone get the CDC back to HEALTH issues rather POLITICAL issues as the have been getting lately !

All this does is prove he learned not a damn thing from covid

The best lesson to learn from COVID is to keep the POWER of the DAMN governments out of peoples personal healthcare and daily lives.

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

The people should have learned to take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises. And to vote the Whitmers, Walzes, Newsomes, etc etc out of their lives.

Hopefully the people learned to implement common sense measures and to carry on life normally as best as possible.

you know what else has a chilling effect?

a cool breeze
sweat
turning over the pillow

- smh, what does the not-even-ominous-sounding "chilling effect" even mean?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The best lesson to learn from COVID is to keep the POWER of the DAMN governments out of peoples personal healthcare and daily lives.

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

The people should have learned to take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises. And to vote the Whitmers, Walzes, Newsomes, etc etc out of their lives.

Hopefully the people learned to implement common sense measures and to carry on life normally as best as possible.

A million dead Americans should have taught them not to listen to Orange Morons and veterinarians.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
All this does is prove he learned not a damn thing from covid

The Chink Virus exposed the total corruption of both the CDC and WHO!

They were no longer concerned with health.

They became political agents!

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The best lesson to learn from COVID is to keep the POWER of the DAMN governments out of peoples personal healthcare and daily lives.

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

The people should have learned to take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises. And to vote the Whitmers, Walzes, Newsomes, etc etc out of their lives.

Hopefully the people learned to implement common sense measures and to carry on life normally as best as possible.

A million dead Americans should have taught them not to listen to Orange Morons and veterinarians.

Oh honey you know the facts don't, as usual, support you?
What was jobama's response? "Let push out the Trump vax and follow trump's plan, exactly"

And, sweetheart, if you INSIST on blaming a president for deaths under his watch, go look at the numbers. By your measure, Joe is the dirtbag

I wonder, do you actually froth at the mouth at the mention of trump?

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The best lesson to learn from COVID is to keep the POWER of the DAMN governments out of peoples personal healthcare and daily lives.

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

The people should have learned to take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises. And to vote the Whitmers, Walzes, Newsomes, etc etc out of their lives.

Hopefully the people learned to implement common sense measures and to carry on life normally as best as possible.

I think all that is utter BS at several levels.

The only sentence I agree with:

quote:

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

I think that's what the CDC and WHO does, and that's what Trump put a stop to. From what little I've read about it, European nations welcome WHO. And again, from what little I've read, I think Trump put a hold, if not a stop, on medical research especially shared.

I find it warped (for lack of a better word, perhaps sick is better) that a guy who suggested bleach and light up the arsh, and a guy who rode around a day with a road killed bear strapped to his car, then dump it in central park, having anything to do or say re national health issues.

In this context, for anyone to say:

quote:

take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises.

That's insane, given what we know, and especially coming from someone sorta trained and studied in medical science.

OTOH, I think common sense ought to inform people, if they bother with such choice, who to trust - the bleach ingestion guy who says he know more about everything than anybody, the dead bear dumped in central park guy, or a real career medical scientist. But, alas, it is what it is.

I cannot understand how people can't see through the BS, and why they don't trust, and why anyone would use the term "common sense" in the context of denialism, whacko anti-vax stuff.

Trump also removed Fauci's security detail.

I started this video at 3:05 to get to a particular point:
https://youtu.be/E4N56lyzx00?s...mtirP3HJfsogDU&t=185
Fauci reveals what happened after correcting Trump at 2020 briefing

The whole video is worth watching, an this one too:

https://youtu.be/ICd0xaRSCDA?si=v0OMLUQpIeXgF_ih

President Trump Calls Dr. Fauci and Disease Experts ‘Idiots’

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
All this does is prove he learned not a damn thing from covid

Even that health research saved his ass from it.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
The best lesson to learn from COVID is to keep the POWER of the DAMN governments out of peoples personal healthcare and daily lives.

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

The people should have learned to take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises. And to vote the Whitmers, Walzes, Newsomes, etc etc out of their lives.

Hopefully the people learned to implement common sense measures and to carry on life normally as best as possible.

I think all that is utter BS at several levels.

The only sentence I agree with:

quote:

The government’s duty is to make best practices RECOMMENDATIONS based on SHARED DATA.

I think that's what the CDC and WHO does, and that's what Trump put a stop to. From what little I've read about it, European nations welcome WHO. And again, from what little I've read, I think Trump put a hold, if not a stop, on medical research especially shared.

I find it warped (for lack of a better word, perhaps sick is better) that a guy who suggested bleach and light up the arsh, and a guy who rode around a day with a road killed bear strapped to his car, then dump it in central park, having anything to do or say re national health issues.

In this context, for anyone to say:

quote:

take the government’s advice with a grain of salt. Use their own common sense in crises.

That's insane, given what we know, and especially coming from someone sorta trained and studied in medical science.

OTOH, I think common sense ought to inform people, if they bother with such choice, who to trust - the bleach ingestion guy who says he know more about everything than anybody, the dead bear dumped in central park guy, or a real career medical scientist. But, alas, it is what it is.

I cannot understand how people can't see through the BS, and why they don't trust, and why anyone would use the term "common sense" in the context of denialism, whacko anti-vax stuff.

Trump also removed Fauci's security detail.

I started this video at 3:05 to get to a particular point:
https://youtu.be/E4N56lyzx00?s...mtirP3HJfsogDU&t=185
Fauci reveals what happened after correcting Trump at 2020 briefing

The whole video is worth watching, an this one too:

https://youtu.be/ICd0xaRSCDA?si=v0OMLUQpIeXgF_ih

President Trump Calls Dr. Fauci and Disease Experts ‘Idiots’

All posts like this do ME…is confirm your insanity.

Sort of trained?

I am currently the lead researcher on a multi-center project on an emerging viral pathogen in horses. We are studying this virus from its basic existence to its pathology and epidemiology.

Health care is a priviledge, not a right. If you can't pay, oh well...

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
All posts like this do ME…is confirm your insanity.

Sort of trained?

I am currently the lead researcher on a multi-center project on an emerging viral pathogen in horses. We are studying this virus from its basic existence to its pathology and epidemiology.

That's the paradox I'm referring to.

You ought to know better than the BS you post.

Somehow the confluence of science, belief, ideology, ego, etc., has messed with you.

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't so afflicted. I presume, from your POV, we can thank God for that.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:
Health care is a priviledge, not a right. If you can't pay, oh well...

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

What is your idea of seriously cheap?

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
All posts like this do ME…is confirm your insanity.

Sort of trained?

I am currently the lead researcher on a multi-center project on an emerging viral pathogen in horses. We are studying this virus from its basic existence to its pathology and epidemiology.

That's the paradox I'm referring to.

You ought to know better than the BS you post.

Somehow the confluence of science, belief, ideology, ego, etc., has messed with you.

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't so afflicted. I presume, from your POV, we can thank God for that.

There in lies the fiction. I don’t post BS.

Okay.

I should have used the word nonsense instead of BS.

Nonsense, based in some part in Belief in Fiction, probably large part. But whatever that portion is can be estimated by the amount of nonsense spewed.

quote:

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't so afflicted. I presume, from your POV, we can thank God for that.

Conversely…from my studies…the Founders had much the same mindset as I. People like yourself try to bastardize the Founders’ intent to mold to your own ideology.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

And that's probably for a plan with a $5K deduction.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't so afflicted. I presume, from your POV, we can thank God for that.

Conversely…from my studies…the Founders had much the same mindset as I. People like yourself try to bastardize the Founders’ intent to mold to your own ideology.

That's what I'm accusing you of.

You are a theist, and that belief system would never have produced a secular constitution.

In fact, you and those who believe like you, theists and interventionists, want to change the constitution from deist to theist.

OTOH, I for one want the constitution to remain secular, for the sake of us all, as the Founders intended.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

I'm certainly glad the Founders weren't so afflicted. I presume, from your POV, we can thank God for that.

Conversely…from my studies…the Founders had much the same mindset as I. People like yourself try to bastardize the Founders’ intent to mold to your own ideology.

That's what I'm accusing you of.

You are a theist, and that belief system would never have produced a secular constitution.

In fact, you and those who believe like you, theists and interventionists, want to change the constitution from deist to theist.

OTOH, I for one want the constitution to remain secular, for the sake of us all, as the Founders intended.

The Founders wanted freedom of religion -- essentially like our country ran for the first 200 years. They never envisioned the "freedom from religion" perpetrated upon us the last 50.

You say you don't want gays and trans people shoving their lifestyle in your face.

Non-believers similarly have the right not to have your religion shoved in our faces.

"The Founders wanted freedom of religion"

Always the elephant in the room....as long it's YOUR religion, you're good with that interpretation.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

And that's probably for a plan with a $5K deduction.

A $5K deductible is a lifesaver for for serious surgery.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
You say you don't want gays and trans people shoving their lifestyle in your face.

Non-believers similarly have the right not to have your religion shoved in our faces.

No one has ever shoved.

quote:

No one has ever shoved.

I don't think that's true.

There are numerous articles about that from Christian sources.

I quickly chose one, read it all, and decided it's a "nice" article:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...ld-trumps-presidency

White evangelical voters show steadfast support for Donald Trump’s presidency
Politics Nov 7, 2024 2:57 PM EST

================================================

BTW, I fully expect Trump to shut down or attack PBS, NPR soon.

Here's how I relate to that:

https://youtu.be/X_D-yW8v0Jo?si=jARL0X3fXU6QsjGH

The First Signs of Tyranny, From People Who Missed Them | NYT Opinion

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

And that's probably for a plan with a $5K deduction.

Closer to 7k for the wife and i

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
You say you don't want gays and trans people shoving their lifestyle in your face.

Non-believers similarly have the right not to have your religion shoved in our faces.

No one has ever shoved.

I am agnostic bordering on atheist, due to my history. I seldom feel "pushed" on by Christians and Hindus and Buddhist.

But we aren't talking about the quiet people, that just want to live their lives, free of government in the bedroom. That's great. Cool. Awesome, you do you boo...

Do I share a pretty simple ethos? Sure.

There is a reason such a large percentage of Christians support Trump, and it's not about "policy despite the flawed person" claim.

They "feel" he's a remedy to their persecution and decline.

They also "feel" they have divine providence to spread (push) the Word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_providence

They also believe in His Intervention, and they are glad to be of service.

He also fits into their "End Times" narrative.

There is a lot of powerful stuff going on there. There is no such thing as such power of belief minding their own business.

You're right, Jeffee, we aren't talking about the "Quiet People".

They shouted when they elected Trump.

Well, Fauci made quite a bit of money as a public servant and is now no longer a government employee. Why should he get any different public protection than anyone else?

As has been shown on this forum with some regularity, there is a pretty large number of folks who confuse science with a large number of fields of study that use publication as proof.

Unfortunately, medicine has been falling into that trap more and more.

When I started medical school, the professors often commented that medicine was every bit as much an art as a science. In general, you are expected to use good judgment.

Unfortunately, organized medicine has been getting further from science but calling things science.

The CDC does good work with infectious diseases. When it starts dabbling in sociology and criminology, it ends up getting more political than scientific areas, but the people involved want to push that they are doctors and know better.

Paternalism has been rejected for the most part in this country, so they should stay away from the policy end.

Dr. Fauci admitted that he went beyond science in some of his recommendations. That’s the problem here.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
There is a reason such a large percentage of Christians support Trump, and it's not about "policy despite the flawed person" claim.

They "feel" he's a remedy to their persecution and decline.

They also "feel" they have divine providence to spread (push) the Word. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_providence

They also believe in His Intervention, and they are glad to be of service.

He also fits into their "End Times" narrative.

There is a lot of powerful stuff going on there. There is no such thing as such power of belief minding their own business.

You're right, Jeffee, we aren't talking about the "Quiet People".

They shouted when they elected Trump.

Off topic... if you really want to play this stupid game

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
You say you don't want gays and trans people shoving their lifestyle in your face.

Non-believers similarly have the right not to have your religion shoved in our faces.

And believers don’t want non believers shove their beliefs in their face either

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Well, Fauci made quite a bit of money as a public servant and is now no longer a government employee. Why should he get any different public protection than anyone else?

As has been shown on this forum with some regularity, there is a pretty large number of folks who confuse science with a large number of fields of study that use publication as proof.

Unfortunately, medicine has been falling into that trap more and more.

When I started medical school, the professors often commented that medicine was every bit as much an art as a science. In general, you are expected to use good judgment.

Unfortunately, organized medicine has been getting further from science but calling things science.

The CDC does good work with infectious diseases. When it starts dabbling in sociology and criminology, it ends up getting more political than scientific areas, but the people involved want to push that they are doctors and know better.

Paternalism has been rejected for the most part in this country, so they should stay away from the policy end.

Dr. Fauci admitted that he went beyond science in some of his recommendations. That’s the problem here.

Exactly Doc
And regular masks don’t work as they are only good for dust particles
For viruses you use supply air masks and cleanup protocol with three decon chambers

quote:

Dr. Fauci admitted that he went beyond science in some of his recommendations. That’s the problem here.

I disagree with the second sentence. That's not the problem. The problem is that you think and say it is. IMO, because you ID the wrong problem says you are complicit in the real problem.

There was a lot of going "beyond science". And he was qualified to make recommendations, far more so than the general public's "common sense" that Lane described. That was part of his job.

I still don't get it about the masks, and the claim they are useless. The long-term care facility that I visit almost every day to visit my brother has a sign on the entrance door requiring masks. And they provide them at the counter next to the entrance. All the staff wear masks and most of the residents. My dentist, oral hygienist, family doctor all wear masks.

quote:

Paternalism has been rejected for the most part in this country, so they should stay away from the policy end.

Nov 6, 2002
Stanford Encyclopedia of philosophy

"Paternalism is the interference of a state or an individual with another person, against their will, and defended or motivated by a claim that the person interfered with will be better off or protected from harm."


That is really something to debate. Jeffee would claim I'm off topic if I get started on that.

quote:

"the person interfered with will be better off or protected from harm."

The definition says, "the person", as in individual. I'm wondering how that fits in with persons, plural, as in society?

The short version of argument is John Locke's Social Contract, and its association with the constitution. That's paternalism, isn't it?

So, what are you saying, Doc? Are you saying that without "paternalism" (the positive definition) we can rely on individuals to use their collective "common sense", conscience, judgment, morals, ethics, virtues, caring for others, in the absence of govt interference in personal freedoms?

I think the last pandemic showed how that works out, even with well-meaning paternalism. With a little top-down political help from mis/disinformation it foments into hate.

I would far prefer some "paternalism" from qualified, reliable, trustworthy people of science in particular than AHs like Trump, Rand, RFK jr., and many more. In fact, the definition of paternalism could include interference from people like Trump and others spewing lies and misinformation and especially attacking those qualified and hired to make recommendations.

I think what we witnessed was a contest between paternalisms (two versions, one good, one bad) and perception of ideological personal freedoms being infringed upon.

So, it looks like ideological perceptions won the contest. One way of looking at it is that Fauci style paternalism stirred the personal freedom warriors. Maybe so. Another way of looking at it is that Trump in particular manipulated the situation for political reasons.

The question that IMO is relevant is - who was acting in their own self-interests vs who was acting regarding interests and well-being of others? I think the answers are obvious.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

Would that circa 25k a year be for a family or just an individual and I assume that’s from taxed income? That seems a hideous expense if you are just an average Joe on an average income.

It is eligible to be pretax money, as long as it’s over 10% of your income.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

Insurance is seriously cheap and available. No excuse to not be insured.

Where? I have a great plan with a generous employer contribution and Healthcare premiums is my 4th largest expense. I am hearing nightmares about 2200-2500 a month for Obama care if one isn't in the subsidies bracket.

Would that circa 25k a year be for a family or just an individual and I assume that’s from taxed income? That seems a hideous expense if you are just an average Joe on an average income.

Thx, it still seems a huge expense, particularly if you are just Mr average on an average salary.