But, I don't think this is going to end well.

You couldn't get me on that kind of vehicle to sink two miles in the North Atlantic at gunpoint.

https://www.cnn.com/americas/l...-06-20-23/index.html

Yes, worrying isn't it. Wouldn't be something id do for free, let alone cough up $200,000 for it.

I can't believe they didn't have some sort of comms backup to cover an emergency...

I hope they make it to the surface alive.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Yes, worrying isn't it. Wouldn't be something id do for free, let alone cough up $200,000 for it.

I can't believe they didn't have some sort of comms backup to cover an emergency...

You would think. Submarines have to be at a pretty shallow depth to communicate, don't they? Or run up an antenna above the surface of the water.

I just do not understand how the main ship completely loses the sub.

Even if you lost comunication, the path should be precharted. They have done this tour before.

quote:

I just do not understand how the main ship completely loses the sub.

comms die when the hull is crushed

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

I just do not understand how the main ship completely loses the sub.

comms die when the hull is crushed

I think comms die when the sub gets more than about 50 feet below the surface.

Assuming a bad outcome, a hull breach would damn sure be better than sinking 2.5 miles and waiting for your O2 to run out. At least it would be relatively quick.

What a nightmare.

At that depth the jet from even a pinhole leak would cut your arm off.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I just do not understand how the main ship completely loses the sub.

Even if you lost comunication, the path should be precharted. They have done this tour before.

The've made the dive over 200 times. I had no idea this was a tourist thing. I'm going to stick with the beach.

"Fourteen years, more than 200 dives and three submersible designs later, the company now finds itself in a desperate search to recover the submersible carrying five people aboard that's gone missing off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada."

quote:

I think comms die when the sub gets more than about 50 feet below the surface.

i had assumed they would be JANUS equipped

Let us pray then.

I read a piece this morning that one of their inspectors refused to certify the viewing window to the depths they were operating at so they fired him and carried on, successfully until now at least.

At least an implosion would be instantaneous death, whereas waiting 96 hours to run out of air would be a pretty hard way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

I think comms die when the sub gets more than about 50 feet below the surface.

i had assumed they would be JANUS equipped

Not familiar but it looks like that requires some kind of communications devices to be placed on the sea-floor? NATO and the US Navy can afford that kind of stuff but not sure about some outfit that offers submarine rides to see the Titanic to people that have too much money and too much time on their hands.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
I read a piece this morning that one of their inspectors refused to certify the viewing window to the depths they were operating at so they fired him and carried on, successfully until now at least.

At least an implosion would be instantaneous death, whereas waiting 96 hours to run out of air would be a pretty hard way to go.

Shades of NASA and the space shuttle? They've had over 200 successful expeditions. Maybe they got sloppy on the QC/safety inspections?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

I think comms die when the sub gets more than about 50 feet below the surface.

i had assumed they would be JANUS equipped

Not familiar but it looks like that requires some kind of communications devices to be placed on the sea-floor? NATO and the US Navy can afford that kind of stuff but not sure about some outfit that offers submarine rides to see the Titanic to people that have too much money and too much time on their hands.

Too much money is right. $200k per person.Ouch.

most of the research submersibles have adopted JANUS

essentially open source
(i have acquaintances in deep sea research)


In this paper we describe JANUS, a simple multiple-access acoustic protocol designed and tested by the NATO Centre for Maritime Research and Experimentation (CMRE) over the past 6 years that provides a basic and robust tool for collaborative underwater communications. JANUS is in process to become a NATO standard but is not intended to be solely military nor only for NATO, but also for civil and international adoption. JANUS is unique in its open and public nature such that academia, industry and governments may all benefit from its use. The specification of the signal encoding and message format is fully described so that anyone may construct a transmitter/receiver to communicate via JANUS to any other compliant platform. While JANUS is deliberately simple to allow easy adoption by legacy equipment, the protocol also offers the freedom to utilize sophisticated receivers and decoders allowing performance to be significantly improved.

Any sub mariners on the forum?
You see on movies on how the listening devices on current military equipment can pin point noises sub surface.
Perhaps banging on the hull of the sub if it is intact?
Actually low frequency noises can travel very far under water.
ie. whale calls hundreds of miles.
Hope for a positive outcome.

One of the fellows I went to school with joined the navy to be a diesel mechanic. He was placed on a nuclear sub, in typical military reasoning.
What I remember about talking to him, he said the walking "planks" on the top of the hull were 11 inches apart, Thats how much the hull could compress at depths !!!

I don’t think running out of air is an issue. I think it’s flat as a pancake down there.
=============

A former employee of OceanGate, the company whose submersible is now missing after diving toward the wreckage of the Titanic, warned in 2018 that the sub's safety could be compromised by poor "quality control and safety" protocols that "​​paying passengers would not be aware" of, a lawsuit says.

David Lochridge, OceanGate's former director of marine operations, alleged in August 2018 court filings that he was wrongfully terminated after raising concerns about the company's "refusal to conduct critical, non-destructive testing of the experimental design" of the Titan, the submersible that went missing Sunday.

The filings say that after OceanGate's CEO, Stockton Rush, asked Lochridge to do a quality inspection of the submersible, Lochridge developed grave concerns about a "lack of non-destructive testing performed on the hull of the Titan."

While completing the inspection, Lochridge said, he asked coworkers if anyone had formally scanned the materials being used to secure the vessel from the high-pressure environment. Lochridge said he was told that no such scans had been done; instead, he said, sound-based systems would check for flaws in the hull in real time in order to detect issues.


Lochridge said that while he was "met with hostility and denial of access to the necessary documentation" while completing the inspection report, he submitted it on January 18, 2018. The next day, he said, he spoke before company leadership — including Rush; Bonnie Carl, the human-resources director; Tony Nissen, the engineering director; and Scott Griffith, the operations director — and raised his concerns.

Lochridge said he recommended OceanGate voluntarily seek out regulation and classification through an agency such as the American Bureau of Shipping, which the filings say inspects and certifies submersibles with "assurance tests and satisfy industry-standard safety controls."

But Lochridge said that after the meeting, he was fired. "OceanGate gave Lochridge approximately 10 minutes to immediately clear out his desk and exit the premises," a court filing says.

"The paying passengers would not be aware, and would not be informed, of this experimental design, the lack of non-destructive testing of the hull, or that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible," the filing says.


It's unclear whether Lochridge's concerns were ever addressed or whether these scans occurred at a later date. Lochridge's allegations were filed as a countersuit against OceanGate, which had accused him of breach of contract, fraud, and revealing trade secrets. Lochridge denied all the charges. The case was settled out of court in November 2018.

OceanGate and Lochridge did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
International Editions:
INTL AS AT DE ES IN JP MX NL PL

This is a recovery, not a rescue. A pair of pliers banging on a hull would be detectable with the sophisticated equipment in play. Ain’t happening because they’re dead from hull failure for whatever reason…

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
You couldn't get me on that kind of vehicle to sink two miles in the North Atlantic at gunpoint.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
This is a recovery, not a rescue. A pair of pliers banging on a hull would be detectable with the sophisticated equipment in play. Ain’t happening because they’re dead from hull failure for whatever reason…

Bottom line.

They were warned.

Made to sign a disclaimer.

Frankly, despite feeling sorry that they might lose their lives, I don't have any sympathy for them.

They are no different to the idiots who pay for others to risk their lives to take them to top of Mount Everest.

Not sportsmen by any imagination, just someone who wanted to brag!

Also, back in 2018 they fired their Director of Marine Operations because he had some serious issues with the hull:
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06...8-then-he-was-fired/

I too am of the belief that there's nothing much to accomplish here except bragging and there's not much to brag about other than you coughed up a quarter million dollars for a seat.


EDIT: I see Tumbleweed already posted the gist of the article I linked. His version tells you all you need to know but the link goes into more detail if you are interested in the matter.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
They were warned.

Made to sign a disclaimer.

Frankly, despite feeling sorry that they might lose their lives, I don't have any sympathy for them.

They are no different to the idiots who pay for others to risk their lives to take them to top of Mount Everest.

Not sportsmen by any imagination, just someone who wanted to brag!

Not true, I don't believe that at all.

In many cases our "trophies" are personal, private, sort of secret. Maybe you and I appreciate the big buck, bull or boar for our own selves.

Others may value being on the highest peak, the lowest canyon for their own interest, their own goals, their own accomplishment.

I'm very sorry as a fellow earthling they suffered fear, pain and probably death. God rest their souls.

I have paid people to guide me on dives all over the place because I’m fascinated by what I see. Yes I could look at pictures in a book, or watch video other people have made but it’s not the same.

I can understand the desire to see it yourself, whether it’s the Titanic, going to the edge of space or whatever.

Some small level of hope.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/...-continues-for-titan

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
I have paid people to guide me on dives all over the place because I’m fascinated by what I see. Yes I could look at pictures in a book, or watch video other people have made but it’s not the same.

I can understand the desire to see it yourself, whether it’s the Titanic, going to the edge of space or whatever.

We have all done that.

But I think you and me are a bit different.

We like to dive, we hire divers.

We like to hunt, we hire professional hunters.

We like to ski, we hire skiers.

This generally goes for most people.

But, from reading quite a bit about Everest, I found some people do it for bragging rights.

To the extent some are almost carried to the top, on oxygen all the time, so they can make a satellite phone call!

These are the ones who I have no sympathy for.

Banging every 30 minutes has been picked up by sonobuoys.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Banging every 30 minutes has been picked up by sonobuoys.

Interesting that such an advanced (expensive) craft doesn't have automatic distress signaling when there's trouble.

This is indeed a terrible situation for the occupants.
I don't know if dying from an overload of CO2 is preferable to running out of oxygen.
I believe the CO2 scrubber onboard has fewer hours of capacity than the oxygen supply.

I understand the passengers are actually bolted in!!??

Assuming there is another craft that can reach them, how are they going to get them out??

Or is the idea to pull it up??

From what I have read that is correct. It is a 5 in thick carbon fibre tube with titanium endcaps. One endcap has a plexi viewport. The end caps are bolted on from the outside like a pipe cap. Oxygen supply and electronics external.

The only way it is able to surface is to release scrap steel ballast and float up of it's own accord. If they can't release the ballast, or they are hung on something, they can't surface. Only hope would be an ROV that could cut it loose and/or attach a cable to it so it could be hauled up. Apparently, the mother ship is not equipped with any rescue devices. It was reported the sub was equipped with an ELT that could be deployed to the surface. If they are just hung up, they should be able to deploy it. That hasn't happened. The only scenario I can imagine is they suffered catastrophic electrical failure and are unable to drop their ballast or deploy the locator. May have been that Nintendo 64 joystick controller they were using.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand the passengers are actually bolted in!!??

Assuming there is another craft that can reach them, how are they going to get them out??

Or is the idea to pull it up??

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
From what I have read that is correct. It is a 5 in thick carbon fibre tube with titanium endcaps. One endcap has a plexi viewport. The end caps are bolted on from the outside like a pipe cap. Oxygen supply and electronics external.

The only way it is able to surface is to release scrap steel ballast and float up of it's own accord. If they can't release the ballast, or they are hung on something, they can't surface. Only hope would be an ROV that could cut it loose and/or attach a cable to it so it could be hauled up. Apparently, the mother ship is not equipped with any rescue devices. It was reported the sub was equipped with an ELT that could be deployed to the surface. If they are just hung up, they should be able to deploy it. That hasn't happened. The only scenario I can imagine is they suffered catastrophic electrical failure and are unable to drop their ballast or deploy the locator. May have been that Nintendo 64 joystick controller they were using.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I understand the passengers are actually bolted in!!??

Assuming there is another craft that can reach them, how are they going to get them out??

Or is the idea to pull it up??

I read it doesn't even have any seats in it. Passengers sit on the floor. One bathroom.

Any news?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/trav...b79423a2916c32e&ei=7

'Debris field' discovered in search of missing Titanic submersible in last-minute hope
Story by Rosie Jempson • 15m ago

If it is them, the end came mercifully quick.

Endcap and platform have been located. News at 3pm EST. All hands lost.

To answer your question about implosion:

https://www.tiktok.com/@sincer.../7246928425431108910

May God rest their souls and render comfort to their families.

Same here Lane.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
May God rest their souls and render comfort to their families.

An accident created by stupid smart people. No bulkheads! Carbon fibre has nearly 0 elasticity. Un-reinforced tube, what could possibly go wrong?

https://images.search.yahoo.co...628.jpg&action=click