quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Yea, the left has its fringe, but they haven't hijacked the party like Trumpism has.

. . . bullshit.

Well, I think we both recognize a problem.

Whether it's THE problem or not is in question.

And I think we agree that there are several problems, multiplying.

And identifying what is the cause and what is the effect is a problem too.

IMO, the "solutions" for us and other "underlings" boils down to voting in opposition to something, and speaking out sometimes. This last election for example, I voted Harris simply because I didn't want Trump to win, and took my best option. It wasn't enough and as a practical matter didn't count because GA is a red state.

If, and that's a big IF, a third party would emerge that mostly met with your criteria posted above, and I thought it could win, I would vote accordingly.

I figure that many, close to most, conservatives voted party in opposition as well. And I think they voted wrong. The outcome is Trump(ism) is proof, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I see little hope for either the Democratic or Republican Party. Both seem to be completely content to pander to their respective fringes, ignoring all the voters (which I happen to believe is a majority of voters) that reflect more moderate, independent views and values.

I harbor the perception that the vote generally splits 40/40 that the two major parties take for granted, with the twenty percent in the middle up for grabs. The fringes are maybe six percent at each end, and put up a lot of money that's needed to gather the voters in the middle. States were won and lost last time over percentages that were less than the third party vote, which was typically smallish. The Republican Tea Party looked a lot like an attempt to co-opt that two or three percent.

I idly wonder how many voters are actually dues-paying party members who attend conventions...

Here's an article that's relevant:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...9g2?ocid=socialshare

MAGA is panicking as Trump finally meets his match

https://youtu.be/nb9eqPYwsmc?si=ZTp-XWeZCNQ_NWu2

7 hours ago
James Carville: Trump Is Very Ill

James Carville discusses the deteriorating health of Donald Trump and its implications for his political future. He speculates on the potential consequences of Trump's health issues on the upcoming midterm elections and urges vigilance among citizens and organizations to prepare for any actions Trump may take as he faces political challenges. The conversation emphasizes the need for preparedness in the face of uncertainty and the importance of safeguarding democracy.

==============================================

https://youtu.be/zyDBxy1u0jQ?si=Qnf0OyBilXPaEUcf

Tamara Keith and Amy Walter on whether Newsom's tactics against Trump are working

Trouble is, Carville seems to wander off the path from time to time as well. Hardly an unbiased source! Still, he definitely tells lefties what they want to hear. Bill

I'm not a big fan of Carville. Others in this thread have mentioned him favorably.

You say:
"...he definitely tells lefties what they want to hear."

Well, he wouldn't be a leftist commentator and analysist if that weren't the case. But I don't hear him feeding predetermined conceptions so much as Fox for example.

One example is Trump's declining health. That's just news and something the Right's media isn't going to pander or cover. Instead, they are going to do what they accused the left of doing re Biden.

And his predictions about Trump's desperation, anticipating his imminent decline and downfall, is something logical, given Trump's character. There is no doubt that he will create crisis and do something fascist to stay in power. He's already doing it, talking about taking military control of Chicago, etc.

It was predicted long ago that Trump will try to steal or stop mid-terms going even so far as declaring martial law.

Rightist media aren't going to talk about that. Instead, they will deflect attention to some BS, and let it sneak up, like a predator pouncing on prey.

Is it possible that you do not care for Carville due to the fact that he also point out flaws in the Democratic party?

You seem quite content to put all the blame on Trump when the reality is that the Dems need to pivot toward the center in order to stay relevant.

How about both parties pivoting more to the center, and let everyone thrive?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Is it possible that you do not care for Carville due to the fact that he also point out flaws in the Democratic party?

You seem quite content to put all the blame on Trump when the reality is that the Dems need to pivot toward the center in order to stay relevant.

To your question - no. It's a good thing he points out flaws in the Democratic party, as he sees it. I'm not a fan because he's vulgar, ugly, and picks his nose, and has food crumbs on his face.

Pivot towards center? Oh, you mean move to the Right? When the Right as of now is so far Right it kinda distorts what is center anymore, AND the Right shows no sign of moving center. In fact, every indicator shows the Right is working hard to move further Right.

Maybe further left and another candidate who cannot win the EC would suite you better?

Maybe make a POC transexual from CA next time?

Yes, the Dems need to pivot towards the center, if they want to be relevant and become winners once again. It could not be more obvious, Maddow likely has a different view though.

Anyone that thinks the current incarnation of the Democratic Party is the answer needs a bit more self reflection. Wish in one hand that the Democrats thrive as currently oriented and spit in the other and see which hand fills up faster.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Maybe further left and another candidate who cannot win the EC would suite you better?

Maybe make a POC transexual from CA next time?

Yes, the Dems need to pivot towards the center, if they want to be relevant and become winners once again. It could not be more obvious, Maddow likely has a different view though.

Agree. However, It will be very difficult to get a Moderate Democrat through the primary.

Same holds true on the Republican side. The most extreme candidates will usually win the primary as the most hard core voters show up for primaries, both sides.

Kari Lake, here in Arizona was an absolute train wreck of a candidate. But she said and did all the right things to win a primary. Now we have the dope, Katie Hobbs for Governor.

So, let me get this straight.

You want the Left to win, and suggest the way?

And

I presume you want the Left to win because somehow the Right will self-correct accordingly, being drawn to the center, get real somehow?

Hummm.

Perhaps even ledvm/Lane will mend his ways, go moderate and all?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
So, let me get this straight.

You want the Left to win, and suggest the way?

And

I presume you want the Left to win because somehow the Right will self-correct accordingly, being drawn to the center, get real somehow?

Hummm.

Perhaps even ledvm/Lane will mend his ways, go moderate and all?

I'm really over having to defend a position that speaks for itself. You need no help deciphering what I said in previous posts in this very same thread.

A rising tide lifts all ships. I am an American first, not a partisan hack like most in here. I want better candidates, period.

But the extreme hate in here won't settle for a moderate Republican. You want to destroy your opponent, not debate him.

Let me remind you of your failures. start video at :37. Forget it's Steve Turley, he's a boring shill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcUwLnQcyWk

Darn, Steve, are you trying to torture me, asking that I watch that video?

I did watch it, and it was torture.

The main theme seems to be hoax. MAGA loves to characterize Leftist stuff as hoax, so he buttered the toast right away.

The second thing is the whole premise hinges on Den registrations and perhaps the money pouring into the DNC vs RNC.

I figure the premise inferences are look we are winning, and that's vindication.

If fascism is winning and you are vindicated, I figure that's self-explanatory.

No moderate Dem candidate(s) can turn that Red Tide. It will have to play itself out like it always has. The fascists winning will be like the confederacy somehow won the war, and had their way with the country, only much worse.

Okay, you tortured me. Now it's my turn to torture you.

https://youtu.be/oOLT_DmIGsY?si=_zwLKrFX-AHybe-0

MAGA Republicans Are Very Concerned About the 2026 Election | Explainer

========================================================

The fact that Fox is harping this causes me to be double skeptical.

There are reliable sources and perspectives, and certainly Fox isn't one.

So, I think double torture on you is okay. I think you really don't understand the real problem.

https://youtu.be/y4le1fFKjDE?si=G-xnDqsyXQfAxyTP

Trump's 4 Point Plan To Subvert Democracy & Effectively Mount A Coup In 2026

================================================================

Okay, the above videos don't really delve into Liberal policy, but this video does:

https://youtu.be/n4qV22WhSyo?si=MEttkajdK1-ytJFg

Why Won't Democrats Fight Trump?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

I think you really don't understand the real problem.

https://youtu.be/y4le1fFKjDE?si=G-xnDqsyXQfAxyTP

Trump's 4 Point Plan To Subvert Democracy & Effectively Mount A Coup In 2026

I posted three videos above. If I had to choose one that defines the problem that you and others refuse to recognize it would be the one above.

I was respectful and courteous and watched your Steve Turley video and gave a little feedback. If you want more feedback, say so.

So, now I want to know if you watched the video linked above all the way through, and did it influence you in any way, positive or not.

Perhaps you did watch it already and find the points made undeniable. If so, that explains the crickets.

I had a friend pull up the you tube video so I could watch it, kabob.
I got as far as the fellow talking about trump accepting lavish gifts.
Presidents can accept gifts. They cannot keep them. There was no evidence he did his first term. No way to prove he will when this term ends, as it is still going.
In other words, it was just a rant. I saw enough to see that, and told him to turn it off.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I had a friend pull up the you tube video so I could watch it, kabob.
I got as far as the fellow talking about trump accepting lavish gifts.
Presidents can accept gifts. They cannot keep them. There was no evidence he did his first term. No way to prove he will when this term ends, as it is still going.
In other words, it was just a rant. I saw enough to see that, and told him to turn it off.

Well, that about sums up what I expected.

Crickets

I figure you are thinking about the Boeing 747 luxury jet as a gift from the government of Qatar. Do you figure such a gift would ever be given to Biden or his admin? And would he accept it and cover by saying it is a gift to government? And furthermore spend millions of TP money refurbishing it?

Anyway, it's not just the jet.

https://www.google.com/search?...gHHA&sclient=gws-wiz

https://youtu.be/LTlLp598J4I?si=CAhspE2PADG4H9U9

The New Yorker estimates Trump and his family have made $3.4 billion from presidency

https://www.google.com/search?...yAc7&sclient=gws-wiz

Show me what gifts he has taken personally, from his first term. I will then give thought to what he "might" but has not done "yet" at the end of this term.
Otherwise, you are blowing smoke.

As far as family making money. I dont like it. Not the Trumps, not the Bidens, or anyone in the house or senate. You cannot single out the trumps without hypocrisy.

Is the old saying "two wrongs don't make Right" hypocrisy?

However it is true that multiple wrongs make Right politically.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Show me what gifts he has taken personally, from his first term.

Putin gave him the gift of election interference and coordination with WikiLeaks.

And SCOTUS gave him the gift of immunity.

And

https://www.google.com/search?...gHPw&sclient=gws-wiz

No Kabob, you are doing the " over there".
You held this guy up, so show me. What "lavish gifts" has he kept? No more distractions, answer the question.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Show me what gifts he has taken personally, from his first term.

Putin gave him the gift of election interference and coordination with WikiLeaks.

And SCOTUS gave him the gift of immunity.

And

https://www.google.com/search?...gHPw&sclient=gws-wiz

Except that as we know now, the election interference didn’t amount to a hill if beans and…

…everything Wikileaks released was real/true.

. . . even Joe Rogan has given up on the stolen 2020 election claim . . . you should too or risk looking like an idiot. Oh, never mind.

Why are you relitigating something that happened in 2016, if not to distract from Trump's current problems?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . even Joe Rogan has given up on the stolen 2020 election claim . . . you should too or risk looking like an idiot. Oh, never mind.

another quality post by jines

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Why are you relitigating something that happened in 2016, if not to distract from Trump's current problems?

because new data, chowderhead - my goodness, a lawyer that doesn't understand evidence -- oh, wait, he's a contract/RE/Family law "jurist" .. did you chase ambulances / dog sleds too?

https://youtu.be/XbMHJc10jnU?si=jMBSPn6svZMSFa54

Jimmy Kimmel Reacts to Donald Trump’s Address to Congress

The best part starts at about 0:40

I'm still waiting for an answer Kabob.
You claimed the man in your video is undeniable.
You have given me deflection and unproven allegations to my thoughts on the man, that you back.
Obo accepted over a million in jewels from the Saudi's, for himself, wife and daughters. All legal to do so, by the way. Where is your proof Trump cant accept lavish gifts?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . even Joe Rogan has given up on the stolen 2020 election claim . . . you should too or risk looking like an idiot. Oh, never mind.

Did I say anything about 2020? I know focus gets difficult with age but please try to stay engaged.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . even Joe Rogan has given up on the stolen 2020 election claim . . . you should too or risk looking like an idiot. Oh, never mind.

Did I say anything about 2020? I know focus gets difficult with age but please try to stay engaged.

You didn't say anything about it today but you have consistently posted up about the 2020 election being stolen due to voter fraud or some such unsupported nonsensical bullshit.

You've changed your mind?

You need to get focused. We all remember your bullshit lying posts.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I'm still waiting for an answer Kabob.
You claimed the man in your video is undeniable.
You have given me deflection and unproven allegations to my thoughts on the man, that you back.
Obo accepted over a million in jewels from the Saudi's, for himself, wife and daughters. All legal to do so, by the way. Where is your proof Trump cant accept lavish gifts?

To answer your allegations one at a time. I already answered your previous question.

Here's the question:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
No Kabob, you are doing the " over there".
You held this guy up, so show me. What "lavish gifts" has he kept? No more distractions, answer the question.

Here's the answer:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I had a friend pull up the you tube video so I could watch it, kabob.
I got as far as the fellow talking about trump accepting lavish gifts.
Presidents can accept gifts. They cannot keep them. There was no evidence he did his first term. No way to prove he will when this term ends, as it is still going.
In other words, it was just a rant. I saw enough to see that, and told him to turn it off.

Well, that about sums up what I expected.

Crickets

I figure you are thinking about the Boeing 747 luxury jet as a gift from the government of Qatar. Do you figure such a gift would ever be given to Biden or his admin? And would he accept it and cover by saying it is a gift to government? And furthermore spend millions of TP money refurbishing it?

Anyway, it's not just the jet.

https://www.google.com/search?...gHHA&sclient=gws-wiz

https://youtu.be/LTlLp598J4I?si=CAhspE2PADG4H9U9

The New Yorker estimates Trump and his family have made $3.4 billion from presidency

https://www.google.com/search?...yAc7&sclient=gws-wiz

I think you're talking about this video:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

https://youtu.be/y4le1fFKjDE?si=G-xnDqsyXQfAxyTP

Trump's 4 Point Plan To Subvert Democracy & Effectively Mount A Coup In 2026

I have given you facts.

Re Obama:

https://www.google.com/search?...QmRdSwhP_oTM&csuir=1

AI summary:

During the Obama presidency, the Saudi royal family gave the First Family several lavish jewelry sets worth over a million dollars, but the family did not keep them. U.S. law prohibits government officials from keeping foreign gifts valued above a minimal amount. Such gifts must be either rejected, purchased for fair market value, or turned over to the federal government.

The same law that applied to Obama, which he abided, also applies to Trump.

Here's a relevant video:

https://youtu.be/Qoy1ezu0zhk?si=evrR-Dy9OP7DZQll

A Big-Picture Look at the Threat to Voting Coming From the Trump Administration | Explainer

The first most important thing she talks about, IMO, starts at about 1:37. She's affirming something I have believed for some time.

Just deflection, no answers.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . even Joe Rogan has given up on the stolen 2020 election claim . . . you should too or risk looking like an idiot. Oh, never mind.

Did I say anything about 2020? I know focus gets difficult with age but please try to stay engaged.

You didn't say anything about it today but you have consistently posted up about the 2020 election being stolen due to voter fraud or some such unsupported nonsensical bullshit.

You've changed your mind?

You need to get focused. We all remember your bullshit lying posts.

The Mikes tag team again.

This whole thread has zero to do with the 2020 election. Who needs focus?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Just deflection, no answers.

If I gave you the answers you are looking for they would be lies.

So, given your question was: "What "lavish gifts" has he kept?"

Presuming you are referring to Trump, I answered that question. And he's just getting started.

You also did the look over there thing by parroting a lie about Obama, which I also provided information on what really happened.

You also lied about the law, and I cleared that up too.

And so forth.

Thanks for being useful and the opportunity to clarify these important issues, for the benefit of others.

I figure you won't be swayed, being as thick headed as a brick.

So, I thought of a video for you:

https://youtu.be/hFYOcOBPkzg?si=z77PAvgIPz1-IN5F

Jethro Tull - Thick As A Brick (Sight And Sound In Concert: Jethro Tull Live, 19th Feb, 1977)

The lyrics: https://genius.com/Jethro-tull...ck-as-a-brick-lyrics

And

https://youtu.be/bZwxTX2pWmw?si=q1aF7kem6AnhM3gD&t=11

Pink Floyd Another Brick In The Wall

Liar.
Obo accepted lavish gifts.
I never once said he kept them you assumed it, not me.
You gave allegations Trump kept gifts, not proof. The national archives would have the say.
You are simple trying to use your beliefs as truth.
Why can obo accept gifts and trump cant, as your video man ranted?
Your other putin and SC topics is just deflection.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Liar.
Obo accepted lavish gifts.
I never once said he kept them you assumed it, not me.
You gave allegations Trump kept gifts, not proof. The national archives would have the say.
You are simple trying to use your beliefs as truth.
Why can obo accept gifts and trump cant, as your video man ranted?
Your other putin and SC topics is just deflection.

It's like goats or single shots, Tony. Some people have good judgement, others love finding things to complain about