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| One of Us |
Images today of t54 and 55 tanks, stalin era museum pieces being shipped from the far east. Can you imagine being a Russian tankie and being given one of those knowing that shortly you will be going up against leopards, challengers and Abrams? | ||
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| Administrator |
Can you imagine an American soldier being shipped to Afghanistan, with his latest technology, and getting his arse handed to him after fighting for 20 years by cave dwellers??  | |||
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One of Us |
Mind blowing. It would seem to me that the longer this gois on the worse Vlad and Russia will come out. What if in the end Russia is a failed state like Libya or Somalia? No more or less than tribal warlords and loose bands of thug militias? It seems like it'd take Chechnya short moments to get there, what about Georgia and Belarus? | |||
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| One of Us |
Its all going to depend. If georgia is allowed too, it will move west and become a Euro state. Belarus is probably doomed unless something major happens. the entire picture is fascinating! On one hand we have Xi visiting russia, while the japanese prime minister visits Ukraine.... and China orgainises a meeting of the ex soviet stans in the background to forge closer economic co-operation. Read into that what you will. While at the same time as Japan visiting Ukraine, and donating military and humanitarian aid, the countries of Japan and South Korea are having thier first meeting in 12 years at political level! Friggen awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3G4IHj_zA0 It seems Poland might have purchased 1000 Korean made tanks too. | |||
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| One of Us |
The Soviets had no issue with sending 100’s of T34’s against Tiger tanks, and they won doing it. As long as Putin can convince the Russian people that he knows what he is doing, it’s going to continue. Besides, slap a bunch of reactive armor and upgraded sensors on a T55 and how much worse is it than a T62 that the Ukrainians are mostly using? We are giving them a battalion’s worth of prior generation Abrams, and with the maintenance required I’d be surprised if they will have a company’s worth operational at any given time. This is an attritional war at this point. Ukraine is doing very well, but unless Russia internally decides to stop the war, I’d say Ukraine is in deep trouble. It’s self evident that the NATO nations want nothing to do with direct hostilities. Zelensky is trying to hold out longer to get a chance for Russia to see the cost isn’t worth what gains they can expect to achieve with a settlement. I’d agree Putin probably has unreasonable expectations, but maybe Zelensky does as well? If the west turned the spigot off, Ukraine would still fight, but there would be a settlement a lot sooner that was much more Russia favorable. Simple logic. My question is given the west’s track record, how much longer will we support Ukraine or will it end up like RVN after our withdrawal? | |||
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| One of Us |
Give me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a house full of buffalo shit. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yes. except ukraine has more tanks now than when it started and the quality is improving. When you say the west, Do you mean the US? because I think the UK, Poland, and the small baltic states plus Finland might have a different opinion. | |||
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| One of Us |
NATO nations. I don’t see Poland wanting to get directly militarily involved either. All democracies have issues with continuing to support a significant outside burden over time. Instead of giving Ukraine more and more, I’d expect Poland/Lithuania/Finland et al to spend the money on their own defenses after a period of time. I’m talking years, not months, but indefinitely expecting billions of dollars in aid isn’t in the cards. Hell, the krauts haven’t even spent any of the increase for their own defenses that their government authorized yet. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm under the impression that defeating our decades old nemesis Russia is more of what's on the Wests mind rather than cost. In combat none of us have been budget conscious and have only balked at casualties, The Military Industrial Complex wouldn't have it otherwise. So far the West hasn't suffered a scratch. Using the example of Russia's WW2 success isn't legitimate, Stalin benefitted from the Allied support in materiel as well as the western battlefront to draw the Axis from the east. Today Russia is very alone. | |||
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One of Us |
You mean like the residents of Riyadh and Abu Dabai getting rocketed by the Yemeni goat herders??  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… | |||
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| One of Us |
War, anyone's who we are involved with, is good for the economy. Lots of jobs involved with arming, and building arms. That is always on a presidents mind. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yep pretty much agree with that. Russia likes to think it won the second world war on its own. The reality is without The support it received it would likely have been quite different. | |||
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| One of Us |
Between 41 and 1945 the United States gave Russia $180 billion in today's dollars.  | |||
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| One of Us |
Along side its own military involvement and loss of american lives. Some really interesting stuff coming from the western asian nations right now.
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One of Us |
Me thinks How long we ( western governments) keep doling up money until we simply refuse to send more because people will have no more of that Definitely this war will become time sensitive sooner or later | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, from my perspective: In a year, Russia has done nothing but loose. Today's headless was that Steven Segal has been hired to teach Russian forces martial arts fighting.  I can't think of another headline that says, " winning!" better. The United States funded Russia's invasion of western Europe in the 1940's to the tune of $180 billion, today Russia has no as in zero allies. For the last year it's been reported that Russia is running out of everything. Everything as in they are exhausting all assets. Right or wrong aside, Russia has been considered an enemy of The West for 80 years or so. The West as in NATO the USA, Australia, etc,.... Right or wrong, we/ they all see this as an opportunity to neutralize the enemy permanently. In my case , I see it as an opportunity without firing a shot. Yes, we'll mourn Steven Segal, but that is winning! What comes after the midget Vlad is worrisome, but The West will have opportunity to insert itself I think. As you know, NATO has been a financial burden to the West and the United States for 75 years. I'd say after 75 years, our commitment to seeing thru the end of the need for NATO should last another couple years or six. The idea that the West would quit in the face of the collapse of Vlad and Russia is silly. | |||
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| One of Us |
I find myself agreeing with you again Scott. And almost spilt my beer at the thought of the tragic loss of Steven Segal and how much thier military will gain from his expertise. | |||
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| One of Us |
In that venue there's been so much tragedy lately; Robin Williams, Don Rickles, my God Man, Whitney Houston still tears at my heart! Now Steve. We must find the strength. | |||
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| One of Us |
The way you talk, I fear for your sanity should Jimmy Fallon suffer some tragedy. | |||
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| One of Us |
Should anything happen to Joy Behar or Al Roker I will be permanently crushed. | |||
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One of Us |
That^^^remains to be seen. I remain unconvinced the Xi and China will not provide what Russia needs and Russia can pay with energy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Administrator |
It is China's advantage top see the West bankrupting themselves. Between the propping up Zaleski and and reparations to the blacks, what could China wish for?  | |||
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One of Us |
It's not in Chins's interest that Putin has an unexpected accident involving a 10th floor window. The last thing they want is for a more pro western replacement to step into his shoes. Russia is their ideological ally and they riot want that to change. | |||
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| Administrator |
The West has no friends. Self imploding right now! How do you think China managed to get where it is in the world stage?? Because you lot have proven to be untrustworthy! | |||
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| One of Us |
Not true, both the UAE and Saudi Arabia are our fair weather friends. Anytime either of you need saving you come running, begging for protection and telling us how much the relationship means to you. When you do not need anything, of course you sing a different tune. Trust....a concept long ago forgotten in that shit hole known as the Middle East. Look where trust got Khashoggi. | |||
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| One of Us |
I wouldn't say you're wrong, but does China want to loose it's Amazon contract? We gather that sanctions have been bad for Russia, if the West looses it's addiction for Internet merchandise who will China get cash from? DPRK? | |||
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| Administrator |
Yes. With open cheque books! | |||
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| One of Us |
It takes a special sort of entitled to not only expect others to defend you but to expect them to foot the bill as well. Thats is Royalty for you. | |||
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| Administrator |
Ask Kuwait how much they paid you! | |||
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| One of Us |
Better Kuwait royalty footing the bill than the US taxpayer. | |||
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| One of Us |
China is a bit of an unknown. but I think this will give a bit of a clue as too what thier actions will be.
Russia only shows up on one of those lists and at 2.9%. Of course this will have risen now with all the cheap oil. But oil is only one aspect of international trade. Russia isn't all that important too China except in that its opinions of the US match somewhat. I remain open too being completely wrong on this, but Id guess China will make alot of noise, and do nothing major. What the west neds from the US is a steady hand on China and also to do nothing right now. | |||
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| One of Us |
Also this as mentioned earlier. There are some real mixed messages coming from china right now. https://www.businessinsider.co...tm_source=reddit.com Could well be that China just sees the easiest option is too take what it can from a position of power right now. | |||
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| One of Us |
China can’t loose it’s Amazon contract as Amazon needs China as much. Until the first bullets of WWIII are fired…the West will never lose its addiction for cheap internet merchandise. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Russia is the largest single country landmass on the globe. It is a trove of natural resources—for which China lusts. I will bet China will keep Russia afloat. They know we are dependent on them and it would take a painful decade to wean ourselves. They also know the 21st century population of the USA lacks the fortitude and willpower to do it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| Administrator |
Better Americans sold by their government die too! | |||
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| One of Us |
I wonder if it isn't best to keep Russia if not Vlad afloat. As to American fortitude, 20 years ago the call was answered with a vengeance. That vengeance was squandered by a succession of inept "Rulers". In these times there are no Pearl Harbors, there are no air raids over London, no Dunkirk. Even back to Vietnam, the priorities were mysterious and distant. Not to mention the battlefield victories were repeatedly handed back to the enemy. History has taught us that "Foreign Entanglements" on distant shores for alien cultures is a waste of American will power. | |||
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| One of Us |
I beleive the micro chip situation might be divesting China of some of that certainty. Some more disappeared when the west companies by and large pulled out of russia.. But yes Lane your point is fair. I just dont think it will be that black and white. Ending trade with the west is equivalent too a Nuclear option for them. In that it will do them more harm long term than it will the west. Scott, this one slightly different. Its not US boots on the ground, and I think I can show from past posts, that its also not the US going it alone. Ukraine has pretty major support across the board from first world nations. Its not an entanglement as the others were. | |||
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| One of Us |
Well we certainly would not expect an Arab to defend his own country, too busy partying it up in London. Far beneath the dignity of such "Royalty".  | |||
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| Administrator |
Why get yours killed when other governments are willing to sell their own citizens to die for you. And get paid for it! We don’t have to be THAT stupid! | |||
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| One of Us |
The fact is that they won’t end trade with the West and we won’t either and they know that. We are spoiled brats and we want our cheap shit and we ain’t giving it up for any reason. The majority of the population of the USA could not tell you who Xi is and couldn’t give a shit about Ukraine. The only reason they know who Putin is and anything about Russia because the liberal media has been screaming about it 24/7/365 since 2016. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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