22 dead over 50 injured lone gunman still at large.

A very odd thing to happen in Maine.
I bet they will find a good deal of red flags that were not acted on before they get done.

An Army Reservist who was committed to a mental health facility for two weeks this Summer.

...at least it wasn't another school, a bowling alley and a bar apparently.

Followed Trump, Steve Bannon and Dinesh D'Souza online.

A MAGAt.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
A very odd thing to happen in Maine.
I bet they will find a good deal of red flags that were not acted on before they get done.

Maybe a transplant? No one I've met in Maine seemed strange like that.

Guys if we have learned anything it is that violence is everywhere and nowhere all at once. His vehicle was found nearby at a boat launch on the Androscoggin river. My theory is he went into the river. They will find him this weekend when he floats or else he is fetched up in debris and they will find him next spring.

More questions than answers at this point. Maine is up there with the most firearms per capita in the country and yet one of the lowest rate of firearms violence so this is an odd, tragic case.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Guys if we have learned anything it is that violence is everywhere and nowhere all at once. His vehicle was found nearby at a boat launch on the Androscoggin river. My theory is he went into the river. They will find him this weekend when he floats or else he is fetched up in debris and they will find him next spring.

More questions than answers at this point. Maine is up there with the most firearms per capita in the country and yet one of the lowest rate of firearms violence so this is an odd, tragic case.

Strange there wasn't a single "good guy with a gun" handy...

You don't know there wasn't. Maybe such person was one of the ones killed. Sounds like it all happened quite suddenly as the police are reporting about 8 minutes after the first 911 call came in they got the second one from another location 4 miles away. I say it was quick get in and get out.

Maybe we can all rally around this rather than pithy commentary this morning, huh?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
You don't know there wasn't. Maybe such person was one of the ones killed. Sounds like it all happened quite suddenly as the police are reporting about 8 minutes after the first 911 call came in they got the second one from another location 4 miles away. I say it was quick get in and get out.

Maybe we can all rally around this rather than pithy commentary this morning, huh?

I am reliably informed that truckloads of thoughts and prayers have been dispatched, since that's all Republicans will allow.

Your class is showing.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Your class is showing.

Have you any idea how little your opinion of me matters?

Must I spell it out?

My nephew is going to college there.

He still is sheltering in place in his dorm room.

Apparently spent the night in his closet.

And yes, I’m sure lots of issues were missed that could have prevented this event.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Your class is showing.

Have you any idea how little your opinion of me matters?

Must I spell it out?

Listen Boy Scout lover just shut your yap today ok?

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
You don't know there wasn't. Maybe such person was one of the ones killed. Sounds like it all happened quite suddenly as the police are reporting about 8 minutes after the first 911 call came in they got the second one from another location 4 miles away. I say it was quick get in and get out.

Maybe we can all rally around this rather than pithy commentary this morning, huh?

I am reliably informed that truckloads of thoughts and prayers have been dispatched, since that's all Republicans will allow.

What is the liberals answer?

The FBI admits there data is incomplete.
But depending on the years involved in the investigation.... It looks like 33 to 40% of active shootings are stopped by a good guy with a gun.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbithabit:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
You don't know there wasn't. Maybe such person was one of the ones killed. Sounds like it all happened quite suddenly as the police are reporting about 8 minutes after the first 911 call came in they got the second one from another location 4 miles away. I say it was quick get in and get out.

Maybe we can all rally around this rather than pithy commentary this morning, huh?

I am reliably informed that truckloads of thoughts and prayers have been dispatched, since that's all Republicans will allow.

What is the liberals answer?

MY answer would be to ban centerfire detachable magazines over 6 rounds. People who still think their AR makes their dick bigger could keep them but if you want to carry 100 rounds into a mall you have to carry 17 magazines and every six rounds somebody gets a chance to brain you with a flower pot.

If you have a problem you can't solve with 6 that next 14 or 24 are just noise makers.

I would just make centerfire, button detach magazine feed semi autos and magazines over 10 rounds subject to the NFA for purposes of transfers going forward.

I would not permit transfer into 18 year olds of either.

Of course, you realize this is impossible?

Magazines have never been serialized and there are so many of them out there it would be impossible to do so?

DBM’s are designed at the military level to be disposable objects.

With the proliferation of inexpensive machining equipment of ever increasing precision, the ability to police new manufacturing is going to be decreased.

I think that barring agreement with complete disarmament, the only real answer is increased efficiency in law enforcement and universal accountability for bad behavior.

The guy who shoots people illegally has almost universally been found to have had numerous encounters with the legal and or mental health system, and not been appropriately addressed.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I would just make centerfire, button detach magazine feed semi autos and magazines over 10 rounds subject to the NFA for purposes of transfers going forward.

I would not permit transfer into 18 year olds of either.

That is why I said going toward. Add them, and manufactures will have to serialize them. Give a date certain that all non-sterilized maga must be pulled from the shelves.

Congress could do it. The Supreme Court has ruled on the NFA twice.

No Law prevents people from doing anything, it only punishes them for violations.

Make the penalties bite and those who care to follow the Law will do so, the rest can forfeit the right to own firearms.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No Law prevents people from doing anything, it only punishes them for violations.

Make the penalties bite and those who care to follow the Law will do so, the rest can forfeit the right to own firearms.

Beheadings in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere doesn't seem to deter criminal activity.

Except criminals.
They seem to be exempt to the gun laws they break while committing a crime.

While they could pass said law, there are millions of them around, and more are made every day in other countries.

The background number being huge, you would never be able to prosecute possession and as it’s something so incredibly easy to make, it would be impossible to police manufacture except in wholesale lots for sales.

We can’t stop illegal auto sears and they claim those are a huge issue (Glock switches)… for something so widespread and damaging and fatal, I sure don’t see many prosecutions for illegal machine gun possession.

Enforce the laws we have now, with none of these exceptions that the prosecutors love so much. Utilize the current laws and restrictions we already have in law.

If we enforced the current laws as written, without all these lapses, and we still had issues, I could buy that more laws might be needed.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No Law prevents people from doing anything, it only punishes them for violations.

Make the penalties bite and those who care to follow the Law will do so, the rest can forfeit the right to own firearms.

Beheadings in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere doesn't seem to deter criminal activity.

they do tend to prevent recidivism

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No Law prevents people from doing anything, it only punishes them for violations.

Make the penalties bite and those who care to follow the Law will do so, the rest can forfeit the right to own firearms.

Beheadings in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere doesn't seem to deter criminal activity.

But it sure reduces recidivism.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
No Law prevents people from doing anything, it only punishes them for violations.

Make the penalties bite and those who care to follow the Law will do so, the rest can forfeit the right to own firearms.

Beheadings in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere doesn't seem to deter criminal activity.

they do tend to prevent recidivism

Well, dip me in horseshit and call me a popsicle, we agreed on something.

quote:

The guy who shoots people illegally has almost universally been found to have had numerous encounters with the legal and or mental health system, and not been appropriately addressed.

Recidivism???

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
The FBI admits there data is incomplete.
But depending on the years involved in the investigation.... It looks like 33 to 40% of active shootings are stopped by a good guy with a gun.

I've never seen any reliable statistic that supports that assertion.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
The FBI admits there data is incomplete.
But depending on the years involved in the investigation.... It looks like 33 to 40% of active shootings are stopped by a good guy with a gun.

I've never seen any reliable statistic that supports that assertion.

I was going to say "but the NRA..." then I realized that they certainly aren't the MOST reliable -

Suspect found dead.

There have been a number of investigations into the data MM. One was a Texas university study also.
That was why the FBI admitted their data was flawed.

The data was for all active shootings, or shots fired, not just mass shootings I should add.

Didn't know we had so many communist's on the board.

Why else would you want to give the government that kind of power.

Have you forgot the people killed in mass vehicle attacks.

Using your logic we show out law vehicles over a certain size.

quote:

would just make centerfire, button detach magazine feed semi autos and magazines over 10 rounds subject to the NFA for purposes of transfers going forward.

quote:

MY answer would be to ban centerfire detachable magazines over 6 rounds. People who still think their AR makes their dick bigger could keep them but if you want to carry 100 rounds into a mall you have to carry 17 magazines and every six rounds somebody gets a chance to brain you with a flower pot.

If you have a problem you can't solve with 6 that next 14 or 24 are just noise makers

Well, this is not good...

quote:

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre.

Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press that a statewide awareness alert was sent in mid-September to be on the lookout for Robert Card after the firearms instructor made threats against his base and fellow soldiers. But after stepped-up patrols of the base and a visit to Card’s home – neither of which turned up any sign of him – they moved on.

Link

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Well, this is not good...

quote:

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre.

Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press that a statewide awareness alert was sent in mid-September to be on the lookout for Robert Card after the firearms instructor made threats against his base and fellow soldiers. But after stepped-up patrols of the base and a visit to Card’s home – neither of which turned up any sign of him – they moved on.

Link

quote:

We couldn’t locate him,” Merry said, adding that he couldn’t recall if there was any follow-up because “I don’t have any reports in front of me.”

They stopped by his house, he wasn't home.....so they just bagged it?????

Now deposits want my guns? Because law enforcement screwed the pooch?

They don't prosecute gun crimes as it is......but they want to take my legally owned and legally used firearms???? And you lefties are good with that? Really?

.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
Well, this is not good...

quote:

Police across Maine were alerted just last month to “veiled threats” by the U.S. Army reservist who would go on to carry out the worst mass shooting in the state’s history, one of a string of missed red flags that preceded the massacre.

Two local law enforcement chiefs told The Associated Press that a statewide awareness alert was sent in mid-September to be on the lookout for Robert Card after the firearms instructor made threats against his base and fellow soldiers. But after stepped-up patrols of the base and a visit to Card’s home – neither of which turned up any sign of him – they moved on.

Link

quote:

We couldn’t locate him,” Merry said, adding that he couldn’t recall if there was any follow-up because “I don’t have any reports in front of me.”

They stopped by his house, he wasn't home.....so they just bagged it?????

Now deposits want my guns? Because law enforcement screwed the pooch?

They don't prosecute gun crimes as it is......but they want to take my legally owned and legally used firearms???? And you lefties are good with that? Really?

.

I don't want the government to ever take anybody's legally owned and legally used firearms.

I want them to change what firearms (or accessories) can be legally owned.

Same thing to the millions already legally owned.

How was he to be found or prevented to legal purchase the firearm?

He purchased these firearms legally. The 6th Circuit right bf Bruen using the same analytical framework used in Bruen held the GCA of 1968 preventing those involuntary committed from possessing arms unconstitutional.

This guy was voluntarily committed. This, under current Fed law in Maine’s Federal Circuit was permitted to be transferred firearms and possess firearms.

Red Flag law would have brought him bf a local judge to bar his possession.

A Fed law preventing those voluntarily committed from possession or transfer would have stopped him from accessing this firearm used in this mass murder.

Not for nothing, the basic fact pattern of the 6th Cir., case is pending bf S. Ct.

Every other Fed Circuit using the now wrong analytical framework held involuntarily commitment being permanent bar was Constitutional. However, Bruen makes how they reached that conclusion wrong. The how is just as important when dealing with judicial review of laws/statutes.

The 6th Cir case is United States v Taylor, 600 F. 3d 678 (6th Cir., 2019). If you or anyone else want to read it.

The 6th Cir., anticipated the analytical frame work the S. Ct., adopted in Bruen.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Same thing to the millions already legally owned.

That's why I would ban magazines, not firearms. Requiring a one-to-one exchange would not be an unconstitutional "taking" and would not implicate anyone's right to bear arms.

Banning the manufacture, importation, sale or transfer of an entire class of weapons could be debated after magazine capacity was addressed.