Too little, too late. Most of us knew this five years ago. I'm betting so did the CIA...

CIA Says COVID-19 ‘More Likely’ Came From Chinese Lab

The agency is now one of three top U.S. bodies that link the COVID-19 virus to a Chinese lab.


Updated:
1/25/2025

The CIA has found a lab origin “more likely” for the COVID-19 pandemic, joining two other top U.S. agencies that have previously made the assessment.

“CIA assesses with low confidence that a research-related origin of the COVID-19 pandemic is more likely than a natural origin based on the available body of reporting,” a spokesperson for the agency said in a Jan. 25 statement to media outlets.

The agency emphasized that it has “low confidence” in the assessment and still considers it plausible that the virus came from nature.

The CIA will “continue to evaluate any available credible new intelligence reporting or open-source information that could change CIA’s assessment,” the spokesperson said.

The assessment marks a shift in stance from the intelligence agency that has for years refrained from making a conclusion on the issue, citing lack of information.

John Ratcliffe, the new CIA director, has long supported the lab leak possibility, telling a congressional panel in April 2023 that it’s the “only explanation” for the disease that has since killed millions around the globe.

After gaining Senate confirmation, Ratcliffe told Breitbart News that addressing the pandemic origin would be a “day one” priority for him.

“I’ve been on record, as you know, in saying I think our intelligence, our science, and our common sense all really dictates that the origins of COVID was a leak at the Wuhan Institute of Virology,” he said, adding that he plans to look at intelligence and get the agency “off the sidelines.”

The international efforts to get more clarity about the source of the virus from China have made little headway.

In late December 2024, the World Health Organization repeated a request for Beijing to share COVID-related data.

“This is a moral and scientific imperative,” the organization said. “Without transparency, sharing, and cooperation among countries, the world cannot adequately prevent and prepare for future epidemics and pandemics.”

In the years since the pandemic broke out from central Chinese city Wuhan, Beijing has silenced on-the-ground citizen journalists, doctors, and academics who sought to shed light on the issue or criticize the regime’s handling of the virus.

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.), the Senate Intelligence Committee chairman, said he was pleased to see the CIA’s assessment.
“I’ve said from the beginning that COVID likely originated in the Wuhan labs. Communist China covered it up and the liberal media covered for them,” he said in a Jan. 25 statement “Now, the most important thing is to make China pay for unleashing a plague on the world.”
The FBI and the Energy Department have previously assessed that the virus had originated from a lab. The State Department, under the first Trump administration, said in a fact sheet that several researchers had fallen sick with COVID-like symptoms in the autumn of 2019, months before the pandemic exploded to a global scale.

Leaked Chinese documents that The Epoch Times obtained also show that Chinese hospitals were treating patients with COVID-like symptoms months before the regime’s official timeline.
“The Chinese government, it seems to me, has been doing its best to try to thwart and obfuscate the work here—the work that we’re doing, the work that our U.S. government and close foreign partners are doing. And that’s unfortunate for everybody,” then-FBI Director Christopher Wray said in early 2023.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...0ScxbjtuMl0xmQ%3D%3D

Wuhan doesn't have the only "wet market" in China. It does have the only "wet market" in a town with both a Level 2 and Level 4 pathogen lab in the same labor market.

DuPont has one set of safety standards corporate-wide. Same for powder plants and office buildings.
The CEO goes to safety meetings like everyone else. There is never any confusion about the rules.

You're still hanging onto the wet market lie?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
You're still hanging onto the wet market lie?

At least you put a question mark at the end of that statement????? (? for emphasis)

I have a question?

Since the issue of the origin isn't settled, and may never be, at this point what difference does it make?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
You're still hanging onto the wet market lie?

Read what I wrote. Whether the "wet market" had anything to do with it or not, the presence of two pathogen labs with differing safety procedures is a red flag.

Why did we move our Plum Island Level 4 pathogen facility to Manhattan KS?
There was a reason for its location before.

FWIW, our household had COVID before it had a name, in December 2019.
Kaiser Permanente said we had a virus but did not know what it was.
We were not the only ones.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
You're still hanging onto the wet market lie?

Not what he said, though. He is mocking that wet marketable exist lots of places, but only one place with a lab with some weak protocols

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Anyway, there are some significant lessons about human nature from the pandemic.

Who would have predicted that such a large segment of the population would just HATE someone like Dr. Fauci, and some from that segment would actually harm him and family, all due to ideology. And furthermore, Trump removed Fauci's security protections, and shut down CDC communications, withdrew from WHO, and nominated a whack to head health and human services.

The implications of all that, known, are far more significant that the unknown part about the source/origin of the virus.

quote:

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Well, I didn't make it up:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/a...iruses%20%5B1%2C2%5D.

Animal Coronaviruses and SARS-COV-2 in Animals, What Do We Actually Know?

Although written in 2021, it's still applicable.

quote:

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Not “morphed”…manufactured by gene splicing. Big difference!

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
You're still hanging onto the wet market lie?

At least you put a question mark at the end of that statement????? (? for emphasis)

I have a question?

Since the issue of the origin isn't settled, and may never be, at this point what difference does it make?

Actually, blame or responsibility matter quite a bit. Going forward we get to say, "hey fucker, you denied it last time and here we are again! I don't believe your denial this time and aim to hold you accountable!".

How do they eat bats in China?
Like a popcorn or bbq or stir fry?
Anyway, common wisdom from most of us points to lab shenanigans/not following safety protocols and messing around with dangerous viruses

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
How do they eat bats in China?
Like a popcorn or bbq or stir fry?
Anyway, common wisdom from most of us points to lab shenanigans/not following safety protocols and messing around with dangerous viruses

Not just China, there is definitely at least one tribe that I know of that relishes fruit bats in particular among other unappetizing creatures.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Not “morphed”…manufactured by gene splicing. Big difference!

Morph Definition & Meaning

Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › morph
6 days ago — verb. morphed; morphing; morphs. transitive verb. : to change the form or character of : transform.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Actually, blame or responsibility matter quite a bit. Going forward we get to say, "hey fucker, you denied it last time and here we are again! I don't believe your denial this time and aim to hold you accountable!".

We already know that the China regime lies.

BTW, how's it working out, going forward or backwards, re blame, responsibility, accountability for our very own lying regime? Surly, it matters quite a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Not “morphed”…manufactured by gene splicing. Big difference!

Morph Definition & Meaning

Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › morph
6 days ago — verb. morphed; morphing; morphs. transitive verb. : to change the form or character of : transform.

Morphed in medicine “implies” slow natural change over time.

This virus was likely manufactured with gene sequence splicing.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

As I recall, the consensus is that the virus morphed from bats. Whether it escaped from a lab or otherwise isn't clear yet.

Not “morphed”…manufactured by gene splicing. Big difference!

Morph Definition & Meaning

Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › morph
6 days ago — verb. morphed; morphing; morphs. transitive verb. : to change the form or character of : transform.

Morphed in medicine “implies” slow natural change over time.

This virus was likely manufactured with gene sequence splicing.

With no known or proven zootropic carrier in the wild... hint:not naturally occurring

quote:

With no known or proven zootropic carrier in the wild... hint:not naturally occurring

These are search results for zootropic carrier of coronavirus:

Zoonotic and reverse zoonotic events of SARS-CoV-2 and ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC7594747
by K Munir · 2020 · Cited by 74 — Coronaviruses (CoVs) are enveloped, positive sense, single-stranded RNA viruses. The viruses have adapted to infect a large number of animal species, ...
Missing: zootropic ‎| Show results with: zootropic
People also ask
What is the zoonotic origin of the coronavirus?
The primary route for COVID-19 transmission from animals to humans is believed to be zoonotic overflow. In the case of COVID-19, it is generally accepted that the virus originated in bats and that an intermediate animal host, presumably a pangolin, contributed to the virus's transmission to humans. Sep 20, 2023

Re-Emerging COVID-19: Controversy of Its Zoonotic Origin ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC10518360

quote:

Morphed in medicine “implies” slow natural change over time.

This virus was likely manufactured with gene sequence splicing.

The way I used the word morphed doesn't imply a timeline nor means, just the results.

Lab created.

This is the new Cold War, not nukes and delivery, strike capability.

Viruses and delivery systems are the new Cold War.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Lab created.

This is the new Cold War, not nukes and delivery, strike capability.

Viruses and delivery systems are the new Cold War.

100%

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Morphed in medicine “implies” slow natural change over time.

This virus was likely manufactured with gene sequence splicing.

The way I used the word morphed doesn't imply a timeline nor means, just the results.

OK. Whatever you say.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Lab created.

This is the new Cold War, not nukes and delivery, strike capability.

Viruses and delivery systems are the new Cold War.

Well, IMO, we MUST act accordingly on that premise.

By "accordingly", I mean protect ourselves and allies in particular and foster as many cooperating allies as possible. I do not mean retaliation.

In addition, I think all the science we can muster not only helps, but is essential as well.

It's our front-line defense. Imagine that!!! For perhaps the first time in history science as a defense, instead of bombs and nukes.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

With no known or proven zootropic carrier in the wild... hint:not naturally occurring

These are search results for zootropic carrier of coronavirus:

Zoonotic and reverse zoonotic events of SARS-CoV-2 and ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC7594747
by K Munir · 2020 · Cited by 74 — Coronaviruses (CoVs) are enveloped, positive sense, single-stranded RNA viruses. The viruses have adapted to infect a large number of animal species, ...
Missing: zootropic ‎| Show results with: zootropic
People also ask
What is the zoonotic origin of the coronavirus?
The primary route for COVID-19 transmission from animals to humans is believed to be zoonotic overflow. In the case of COVID-19, it is generally accepted that the virus originated in bats and that an intermediate animal host, presumably a pangolin, contributed to the virus's transmission to humans. Sep 20, 2023

Re-Emerging COVID-19: Controversy of Its Zoonotic Origin ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC10518360

plot twist -- no animals in the wild have the virus --- so, exactly what i said -- please try to be topical AND add to the conversation

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Morphed in medicine “implies” slow natural change over time.

This virus was likely manufactured with gene sequence splicing.

The way I used the word morphed doesn't imply a timeline nor means, just the results.

awww, honey .. you tried ... fail, but you tried

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

With no known or proven zootropic carrier in the wild... hint:not naturally occurring

These are search results for zootropic carrier of coronavirus:

Zoonotic and reverse zoonotic events of SARS-CoV-2 and ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC7594747
by K Munir · 2020 · Cited by 74 — Coronaviruses (CoVs) are enveloped, positive sense, single-stranded RNA viruses. The viruses have adapted to infect a large number of animal species, ...
Missing: zootropic ‎| Show results with: zootropic
People also ask
What is the zoonotic origin of the coronavirus?
The primary route for COVID-19 transmission from animals to humans is believed to be zoonotic overflow. In the case of COVID-19, it is generally accepted that the virus originated in bats and that an intermediate animal host, presumably a pangolin, contributed to the virus's transmission to humans. Sep 20, 2023

Re-Emerging COVID-19: Controversy of Its Zoonotic Origin ...
National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC10518360

plot twist -- no animals in the wild have the virus --- so, exactly what i said -- please try to be topical AND add to the conversation

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9408936/

Role of the Pangolin in Origin of SARS-CoV-2: An Evolutionary Perspective

But there is a later article, same source:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7405773/

COVID-19: Time to exonerate the pangolin from the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to humans

===========================================

Do I get credit for trying?

You may be right on this one, Jeffee.

Truthfully, I think the safer bet is that it escaped from a lab, or that LHeym is correct.

Look at probabilities and consequences. In something this serious, cover all bases.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
... Pangolin ...

first time i have ever heard that the cutest animal on the planet was a vector
Pangolin

you know i wrote a thesis on l-lymphokines/cytokine and t-cell interaction, right, leveraging the patient's own t-cells to generate "factory" cells using HeLa cells? -- iirc, fall of 87 or spring of 88

let me restate - using HeLa cells with a patients on t-cells to generate lymphokines -- those words might not mean much to you, but given the vintage, it might raise an eyebrow for lane or Doc

Told you from day.

THE CHINK VIRUS came from China!

Fauci, CDC and WHO were all conspired in this sad episode!

quote:

Fauci, CDC and WHO were all conspired in this sad episode!

Well, I don't believe that Saeed. There is just too much to presume there.

I do believe Jeffee in this case, though, mostly because he's over my head with his post.

If he's BSing me, I wouldn't know in this case, and I think looking it up wouldn't work either.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Fauci, CDC and WHO were all conspired in this sad episode!

Well, I don't believe that Saeed. There is just too much to presume there.

I do believe Jeffee in this case, though, mostly because he's over my head with his post.

If he's BSing me, I wouldn't know in this case, and I think looking it up wouldn't work either.

Doc and Doc will call me out -

google's AI summarized it thusly

quote:

Lymphokines, a specific type of cytokine produced primarily by T cells, play a crucial role in T-cell interactions by acting as signaling molecules that influence the activation, differentiation, and function of other immune cells, effectively coordinating the immune response against pathogens; essentially, T cells "communicate" with other immune cells through the secretion of lymphokines, directing the response based on the specific antigen encountered

Has there ever been a proven situation where a nation state used a lab developed biological agent as a weapon against another nation?

And another thing:

There are several examples of viruses jumping species. Swine flu, bird flu, Ebola, for examples.

I read that the coronavirus has been found in whitetail deer.

Also, the original coronavirus doesn't exist in the population anymore, from what I read. It has morphed several times and this year there's a new version out, perhaps with last year's version too.

They go out of their way to not try too hard to prove something like that... because the great powers have talked themselves into the position that their response MUST be massive nuclear attack.

Just like how the US bent over backwards to deny the Iraqi militants were using nerve gas... oh, because it was stocks that had been slated for destruction to the UN folks before the invasion... or it was "pesticide". Newsflash, that's what Zyklon B was "officially" designed to be.

Jeffe, that's pretty deep into the biochem rabbit hole when you did that. Before my time.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Has there ever been a proven situation where a nation state used a lab developed biological agent as a weapon against another nation?

quote:

They go out of their way to not try too hard to prove something like that... because the great powers have talked themselves into the position that their response MUST be massive nuclear attack.

Just how sick is sick?

We tend to think in terms of humanitarianism's morals and project, (or at least I do) but nukes violate that notion.

"Humanitarianism is an ideology centered on the value of human life, whereby humans practice benevolent treatment and provide assistance to other humans to reduce suffering and improve the conditions of humanity for moral, altruistic, and emotional reasons."

Then there's lab developed self-morphing pathogens.

The thing that gets to me about the coronavirus and the yet to be sufficiently proven (or disclosure) lab escape origin is the short leap to the notion that the release and perhaps development with that intent was intentional by a nation state. Trump played with that notion, but like so much of his BS, he didn't make the claim outright but inferred it. And he used and abused Fauci, and us too.

There is so much wrong with this, it's hard to pin down.

Hopefully the truth does come out. ME will continue to believe his own conspiracy theories though.

If one looks, they will see reports that the current bird flu virus has come from a gain of function lab in Georgia which spread to migrating waterfowl.

Fauci got a long preemptive pardon for a reason. Might as well call him Dr. Evil.

"Gigantic Rat's Nest": Taibbi Hints FBI Communications With COVID Scientists Will Be Exposed

quote:

bird flu virus has come from a gain of function lab in Georgia

So many lies, so little time.

I'm beginning to wonder if Belief in Fiction is a pathogen.

Fri, Jan 17 2025
https://agr.georgia.gov/pr/hig...-georgia-all-poultry

Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza Confirmed in Commercial Poultry Flock in Georgia, All Poultry Activities in Georgia Suspended

Atlanta, Ga – Today, the Georgia Department of Agriculture and the United States Department of Agriculture’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service confirmed a positive case of Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI) in a commercial poultry operation located in Elbert County, Georgia. This is the first confirmed HPAI case in a commercial poultry operation in Georgia, and the fifth detection in the state of Georgia. As a result of this detection, effective immediately, all in-state poultry exhibitions, shows, swaps, meets, and sales are suspended until further notice.

"For the first time since the ongoing, nationwide outbreak began in 2022, HPAI has been confirmed in a commercial poultry operation in the state of Georgia," said Georgia Agriculture Commissioner Tyler Harper.

=======================================================

fact check: avian influenza escaped from lab in georgia

Search results

No, avian influenza did not escape from a lab in Georgia, but it was detected in commercial poultry flocks in Elbert County, Georgia in January 2025.

Explanation
The Georgia Department of Agriculture (GDA) confirmed the first case of Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI) in a commercial poultry flock in Elbert County on January 16, 2025.

A second case was confirmed in the same county less than a week later.
The GDA and the United States Department of Agriculture Animal & Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS) worked together to respond to the outbreak.

The GDA implemented a quarantine around the affected area and suspended poultry exhibitions, shows, and sales.
The GDA also worked with the Georgia Department of Public Health to monitor human health risks.

HPAI can be transmitted through contact with infected birds, their droppings, or contaminated surfaces, equipment, and clothing. While human infections are rare, they can be severe.

==============================================

fact check: is bird flu man made

Search results

No, bird flu is not man-made. It's a natural infection caused by a type of influenza virus that spreads among birds and other animals.
How it spreads
Bird flu spreads naturally among wild aquatic birds
It can infect domestic poultry and other birds and animals
Humans can get bird flu from infected animals, especially those in close contact with infected poultry
It's extremely rare for bird flu to spread from person to person
Different strains
There are different strains of bird flu, some more pathogenic than others
Highly pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) strains have caused outbreaks in wild and domesticated birds, and in mammals
Low pathogenic avian influenza (LPAI) strains have also been isolated from birds
Risk of pandemic
Bird flu has the potential to undergo genetic reassortment that could allow it to spread easily from person to person
This could trigger a pandemic with high morbidity and mortality

I don’t get you.

You asked if there has been proof that a state actor deliberately released a bio weapon.

Now you are trying to relate this to humanism?

A bioweapon is unlikely to respect borders, and is considered a weapon of mass destruction. The western nuclear armed powers have clearly stated that a use of WMD’s against them will result in response in kind, and our only WMD’s at this point are nuclear.

So are we going to denounce a deterrent policy or are we going to ignore no existential items?

As to bird flu, well that’s been popping up for years. I don’t buy that it came from a gain of function lab here in the US, but because your side kept deliberately hiding things they did not agree with, we have gotten to the point that reasonable people don’t trust the government or the mass media.

Some folks want to believe that the government isn’t horribly incompetent and feel that evil intent is a better fit.

Fauci could have kept to scientifically proven statements and said “we don’t know” or “we can’t prove that” instead he gave the politicians a “we are doing something!” That was not proven… now he’s paying the price for taking sides in a political battle.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

They go out of their way to not try too hard to prove something like that... because the great powers have talked themselves into the position that their response MUST be massive nuclear attack.

Just how sick is sick?

We tend to think in terms of humanitarianism's morals and project, (or at least I do) but nukes violate that notion.

"Humanitarianism is an ideology centered on the value of human life, whereby humans practice benevolent treatment and provide assistance to other humans to reduce suffering and improve the conditions of humanity for moral, altruistic, and emotional reasons."

Then there's lab developed self-morphing pathogens.

The thing that gets to me about the coronavirus and the yet to be sufficiently proven (or disclosure) lab escape origin is the short leap to the notion that the release and perhaps development with that intent was intentional by a nation state. Trump played with that notion, but like so much of his BS, he didn't make the claim outright but inferred it. And he used and abused Fauci, and us too.

There is so much wrong with this, it's hard to pin down.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I don’t get you.

Well, I think I get you.