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One of Us |
Believe this or not.  https://www.theguardian.com/so.../child-marriage-laws "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | ||
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| Administrator |
Who decides that 18 is the age for marriage?? Throughout the ages, women got married as soon as they are able to carry babies! Anyway, in today’s society, age is most definitely NOT measure of maturity!  | |||
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| One of Us |
Ever the contrarian, I agree that 18 should not be the marriageable age, it should be higher. This young girl seems to have jumped from one bad situation into another. Both women and men should be more mature before they make such a commitment. And, I realize this might be controversial, but there should not be any "arranged marriages". | |||
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| one of us |
For a long time, 14 was considered to be marriageable age in Canada. A situation capitalized upon by one notorious polygamist to keep a flow of virgins in his bed. Currently, I believe the age has been raised to 16. I know several women who were married at 16, a couple who were married at 15, and one at 14. Interestingly enough, most of the marriages lasted and one couple recently celebrated their 55th anniversary. The 14 year-old girl's marriage didn't last but the age of the two probably had nothing to do with it. The husband in this case is now on his fourth marriage. He seems to like getting married but not being married! "Ce la vie say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell". Of course, Chuck Berry was known to like younger girls. Regards, Bill | |||
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One of Us |
Oh, I believe it. Frightening is right... QUOTE: "UNICEF estimates that at least 1.5 million girls under 18 get married in India every year, making it home to the largest number of child brides in the world — accounting for a third of the global total. India’s National Health Family Survey data shows that more than 31% of marriages registered in Assam involve the prohibited age group." Source: AP Indian child marriage crackdown leaves families in anguish . | |||
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| One of Us |
And what makes Western views on marriage correct for those living in India? Is it possible that different cultures also have different norms? Lavaca: My God, now 18 is not old enough to consent? How is anybody's business who an 18 year old might marry? Boggles the mind. | |||
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| One of Us |
Western views on CHILD marriage, Steve. The topic header reads "CHILD Marriage- frightening." The AP article makes the Indian Government's position on CHILD Marriage very clear. That I'm a "Westerner" dosen't make me correct in this case, I simply agree with their Government. And they agree with me. Frightening, I know... Different cultures, different norms, YES of course. But that doesn't seem to be the case here, actually it appears our norms align. . | |||
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| Administrator |
Nature says a female can conceive at a certain age. Who can argue with nature?? Yes, I know. In our modern times, some deranged idiots cannot deferentiate between men and women! | |||
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| One of Us |
No Saeed. The problem(s) are with the deranged dogs who choose not to differentiate between a child and an adult, and those who defend that behavior without compunction. . | |||
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| One of Us |
My reading is that you are in agreement with the Government but not necessarily in agreement with the people. Many places in the third world consider people mature enough to marry before 18, my experience is that much of Asian society finds it to be completely acceptable. You see them as children, much of their culture does not. The common view in many Western societies is that 18 years of age is old enough to make these type of decisions but not everywhere, several States allow marriage before 18, some as low as 15 and some have no minimums at all. https://www.newsweek.com/child...virginia-law-1888471 | |||
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| One of Us |
Do you mean like those horrible 19 year old boys dating 17 year old girls? Cradle robbers for sure. We need laws to protect children from predators but on some levels it has gotten absurd as well. Reminds of the Monica Lewinsky story....poor innocent thing was ONLY 23 years old. | |||
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| One of Us |
As to Saeed’s comment… Women are having menarche at an ever younger age nowdays. By his logic, marriage at 11-12 is reasonable. One thing I have been seeing is that the neuroscience suggesting that the brain doesn’t fully mature until the early to mid 20’s is often used as a reason to defer criminal responsibility by a large number of lawyers and advocates, but the reverse side of increasing the age to allow certain rights/privileges is not at all supported. If the average girl is becoming biologically fertile at 11.5 years, and thus having the hormonal sex drive, is that justification for reducing the age of consent? So we are seeing more biologically adult humans who are neurologically still immature… how does the “system” want to deal with it, and are they willing to behave logically about it? | |||
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| One of Us |
Ethiopia just outlawed child marriage. When the horse has been eliminated, human life may be extended an average of five or more years. James R. Doolitle I think they've been misunderstood. Timothy Tredwell | |||
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One of Us |
Seeing how most people raise their offspring nowadays... Most now are useless ninnies who have been worshiped and never expected to achieve proper mental and physical maturity at this time. I'd hate to see an overall view like yours that because the Third World has a dim view on females that you'd like our country to follow suit just because others do it. Somehow I am not surprised that you would defend this. ~Ann   | |||
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| One of Us |
Maybe after menopause it would be appropriate for these sacred creatures to marry  Give me a break, did you happen to look at the link I posted and notice the minimum in your own State Ann? There is not one in Oklahoma. If you have been to the third world then you know that in those places people are expected to reach maturity far earlier than here where children are coddled into their 30's or later. I'm not the one with a dim view of females. Take note that I fully trust them to make the decisions that is best for them, you on the other hand feel you know better. | |||
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| One of Us |
That is not at all what your comments implied until now. You were all for third world status. Things are vastly different with today's parents. The majority do not seem to be raising offspring to grow up and become useful members of society. They instead want them to live in the basement and use a litter box to defecate into. Even in their 30's they would not be mentally mature enough to participate in procreation. ~Ann | |||
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| One of Us |
Like I said, I trust them to decide for themselves, you on the other hand seem to feel differently. | |||
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| One of Us |
No, you initially said you think third world ideals are better. Indefensible. Not only that, you have not been paying attention to the backward trend of how people are raising their pathetic offspring. Pathetic because it IS the fault of the parents. ~Ann | |||
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| One of Us |
Rubbish. I am in no way saying third world ideals are better, but they do exist and in those cultures norms are different than in the West. How they do things in rural India is bound to be different than how we do things, that does not mean we are correct. You have the typical American attitude "well this is how we do it at home". News flash....the rest of the world really does not GAF how we do it, they do it their own way. That is the beauty of travel, seeing how others do it. I pointed out how children are coddled today...not paying attention??? Debating a Trumptard is useless, I should know better  | |||
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| One of Us |
and you remind me of Warren Jeffs' silver-tongued lawyers... . | |||
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| One of Us |
Like I said, maybe after menopause the sacred creatures will be ready to marry. She was ONLY 23 for God's sake ONLY 23. If 23 is not old enough for a woman to decide who she wants to have sex with, how old must one be Ty? | |||
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| One of Us |
Monica Lewinski was not a Child , nor was she an unwilling participant. You are deflecting. What age would Warren Jeffs' lawyers say is ripe enough for marriage, or a good-cigar schtupping? F.Y.I. in my home-State of Arizona the minimum age standards are as follows: Minimum age of consent is 18 years old, and, QUOTE: "HB 2006 establishes age 16 as the minimum age for marriage, but only if one of two conditions apply: the minor has been legally emancipated, or a parent consents to the marriage. In either case, the prospective spouse can be no more than three years older than the minor." "Data gathered by the Tahirih Justice Center has shown that up to 200,000 minors in the United States were married between the years 2000 and 2014, nearly always to adult men who are sometimes decades older." https://imprintnews.org/politi...arriage-minors/30482 . | |||
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| One of Us |
Sadly, thats the kind of questions that never really get too the political or religious debate about things like this. But its the questions that need proper answers. The life we live now seems to make humans physically mature earlier and perhaps the ease with which we can remain children means we are becoming adult later. | |||
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| One of Us |
Child-brides and arranged marriages are not confined to rural India among the poverty-stricken communities as one might assume but also within the wealthy upper class circles both at home and abroad. There are 2 reasons at play: children from poor Indian families tend to be far too numerous than unaffordable and the girls are "given away" (sold to the highest bidder) as soon as possible after the "first moon". The 2nd reason: The class of the wealthy tend to marry their offspring to members of a similar upstanding to keep the status alive, expand their money-making businesses and increase their wealth. | |||
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| One of Us |
Child marriage is pedophilia with a license, which is why it is championed in the U.S. by Republicans. "If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump | |||
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| Administrator |
“Arranged marriages” seem to last. Pick your own bimbo after a drunken night sort of thing seem to break up more often!  | |||
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| One of Us |
I have no problem with arranged marriages. Its solely the age thing that raises questions. | |||
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| One of Us |
No, I am not deflecting. I am pointing out how absurd some peoples views are regarding when others can make decisions for themselves. I was in Mozambique last year and my tracker as well as his eldest son were both there. Roberto my tracker was married at 14 and was a father at 15. Everybody seemed happy and healthy. I don't feel it was my place to judge them. Things are done differently in rural sub-Saharan Africa and I'm just fine with that. By the way, Warren Jeffs is a POS of the first order. | |||
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| Administrator |
And who are you to decide for others? Similar to the idiot ruling Texas, offering a reward for anyone reporting their neighbors having an abortion! NON OF YOU BLOODY BUSINESS! | |||
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| One of Us |
The rest of the world's cultures are under no obligation to follow those of the western world as these cultures are as old as the beginning of mankind and who are we, the western meddlers, to disrupt simply because WE do not agree? We can apply OUR laws in OUR lands but have no business in dictating our philosophy to others. Try doing an unbiased search on Maasai culture. | |||
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| One of Us |
So, You're not a lawyer, but, you stayed at a Howard Johnsons once. Got it. . | |||
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| One of Us |
So, your not a Westerner trying to impose your cultural norms upon others, it's just that you feel people living in subsistence tribal cultures should live in a manner that you approve of. Got it Anything else that you feel folks half way around the world should clear with you before they proceed with?  | |||
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| One of Us |
Im not deciding for others. I simply, like you, have an opinion. I remember what it is to be a child. I can not reconcile that state of being, with being forced into marriage and do not beleive a child has the ability to consent to intercourse. Even understand what it is. In my country the legal age for marriage is 18 and for sex its 16. But marriage is dying out anyway and the legal age thing is not enforced as long as there is not a reasonable age gap. 2 young people finding thier way for themselves is not something we stress about too much. An adult grooming or forcing a young person is. Naki making an issue about child marrage in the US and ignoring it in his mother land is pretty hypocritical. Indeed given he now lives in NZ, how come you didnt jump on him with, ? | |||
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| One of Us |
The hateful BS is despicable. Cowardly personal attacks are despicable. Analyzing the original article raises a lot of question and none of them are about me or India. The original post has referenced one article and no opinion except "scary". Child marriage has been around in all societies for thousands of years. Human slavery has been around for as long. Modern child trafficking still exists. The issue in the US is linked to political ideology. Both GOP and democratic extremists do not want any regulation on child marriage. That is scary. If you do your research you will find that child marriage in India was a 2 step institution. The first step is the arranged marriage between children as young as 3 or 4. This is purely ritual, social and cultural. There may be business interests involved. The 2nd step is conjugal consummation when the couple live together and have children. This happens much later into their teens. Historically such ritualistic cultural child marriages never involved an adult. The scary part in the US is that female children are being legally married to adult men with no consent or protection of children's rights. Hateful begots here support this paedophilia and obfuscate the discussion into personal attacks. I am a Kiwi and have been a Kiwis adult 3 times longer than as an Indian adult. That is two decades more than some illiterate bully born here. The fact that I have Indian heritage doesn't mean that I dont have any right to comment on any other cultural or political matter. If that was the norm, then no one else has a right to comment about any other culture. My Indian heritage does not make me responsible for all Indian history. Illiterate bigots need to get a decent education first before becoming keyboard bullies. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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| One of Us |
and then again Saeed, they seem not to... QUOTE: The Two-Way AMERICA Father Found Guilty In Arizona 'Honor Killing' FEBRUARY 22, 2011. 6:28 PM ET By Bill Chappell A Phoenix jury has convicted an Iraqi immigrant of second-degree murder in the death of his daughter in what prosecutors say was an "honor killing." The case stems from late 2009, when Noor Al-Maleki was run over and killed in a parking lot in suburban Phoenix. Her father, Faleh Hassan Al-Maleki, was behind the wheel of the vehicle that hit her. At the trial, prosecutors said that Al-Maleki was upset by his daughter's refusal to accept an arranged marriage. Noor Al-Maleki had instead decided to go to college; she also had a boyfriend. When she was struck by her father's Jeep, she was walking with her boyfriend's mother, Amal Khalaf, who was also injured in the episode. NPR's Ted Robbins reports that "a detective testified during the trial that Al-Maleki admitted he intentionally ran over his daughter, but he also repeatedly called it an accident. The defense called no witnesses." The Arizona Republic reports that when he is sentenced Wednesday, Al-Maleki "faces 10 to 22 years in prison for second-degree murder, 5 to 15 years for aggravated assault, and 2 to 8-3/4 years for leaving the scene of the accident. All of those sentences would be stacked on top of each other, meaning Al-Maleki can face 17 to 45-3/4 years in prison. He is already 50 years old." The sad incident has echoes of some of the stories in a two-part series on honor killings in America aired by NPR in 2009." Source: NPR https://www.npr.org/sections/t...rizona-honor-killing . | |||
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| One of Us |
Am I reading a different thread? No one said anything about you here. I suspect that there are child and adult marriages in India just like there are here in the US, defining child as under 18, and adult as over 18. India does have a cultural history of allowing marriage between a person under 18, and I think 14 is not unusual. It is cultural. If a woman is considered adult at 14 in India, it is their business. I may think that’s a bad idea, but it’s their culture, their rules. Just don’t be surprised when as a foreigner they expect you to follow their rules while you are there. If a 30 year old Indian guy shows up with a 13 year old wife and has sex with her and it comes to the attention of the authorities… he will be charged with statutory rape in this country, and I suspect in New Zealand as well.
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| Administrator |
Can the politicians ask farmers to stop their animals mating until they are a certain age? | |||
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| One of Us |
We kind of do anyway. Letting a female sheep or cow get mated at or after their first oestrus at 6-9 months of age is extremely detrimental too the animal. Often resulting in death or injury. Most wait until the animal is 1.5 years old on average when they are approaching full growth at time of birth. | |||
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| One of Us |
Doc It looks like the illiterate troll has deleted his bigoted post. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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| One of Us |
This is typical of you Naki. You highlighted an issue, which according too the article, is such a massive problem in the US, that it effects .004 of one percent of the population of the US per year. Its a nothing issue in relation too the US. Its not frightening. Its not a beleive it or not situation. Id say its an issue the US is dealing with quite well. Then when some of us bring up that it's likely a bigger issue in your birth nation, you get hysterical and accuse us of being illiterate Bigots and getting personnel. There is a massive irony/Hypocracy in that. Its no more personnel than posting up an article about an all most statistically non existent event for American members with the title Frightening. And as for illiterate. You cant even remember what you wrote. | |||
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