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https://www.nytimes.com/2024/0...ala-harris-2024.html


It is hard to imagine a candidate more unworthy to serve as president of the United States than Donald Trump. He has proved himself morally unfit for an office that asks its occupant to put the good of the nation above self-interest. He has proved himself temperamentally unfit for a role that requires the very qualities — wisdom, honesty, empathy, courage, restraint, humility, discipline — that he most lacks.

Those disqualifying characteristics are compounded by everything else that limits his ability to fulfill the duties of the president: his many criminal charges, his advancing age, his fundamental lack of interest in policy and his increasingly bizarre cast of associates.

This unequivocal, dispiriting truth — Donald Trump is not fit to be president — should be enough for any voter who cares about the health of our country and the stability of our democracy to deny him re-election.

For this reason, regardless of any political disagreements voters might have with her, Kamala Harris is the only patriotic choice for president.

Most presidential elections are, at their core, about two different visions of America that emerge from competing policies and principles. This one is about something more foundational. It is about whether we invite into the highest office in the land a man who has revealed, unmistakably, that he will degrade the values, defy the norms and dismantle the institutions that have made our country strong.

As a dedicated public servant who has demonstrated care, competence and an unwavering commitment to the Constitution, Ms. Harris stands alone in this race. She may not be the perfect candidate for every voter, especially those who are frustrated and angry about our government’s failures to fix what’s broken — from our immigration system to public schools to housing costs to gun violence. Yet we urge Americans to contrast Ms. Harris’s record with her opponent’s.

Ms. Harris is more than a necessary alternative. There is also an optimistic case for elevating her, one that is rooted in her policies and borne out by her experience as vice president, a senator and a state attorney general.

Over the past 10 weeks, Ms. Harris has offered a shared future for all citizens, beyond hate and division. She has begun to describe a set of thoughtful plans to help American families.

While character is enormously important — in this election, pre-eminently so — policies matter. Many Americans remain deeply concerned about their prospects and their children’s in an unstable and unforgiving world. For them, Ms. Harris is clearly the better choice. She has committed to using the power of her office to help Americans better afford the things they need, to make it easier to own a home, to support small businesses and to help workers. Mr. Trump’s economic priorities are more tax cuts, which would benefit mostly the wealthy, and more tariffs, which will make prices even more unmanageable for the poor and middle class.

Beyond the economy, Ms. Harris promises to continue working to expand access to health care and reduce its cost. She has a long record of fighting to protect women’s health and reproductive freedom. Mr. Trump spent years trying to dismantle the Affordable Care Act and boasts of picking the Supreme Court justices who ended the constitutional right to an abortion.

Globally, Ms. Harris would work to maintain and strengthen the alliances with like-minded nations that have long advanced American interests abroad and maintained the nation’s security. Mr. Trump — who has long praised autocrats like Vladimir Putin, Viktor Orban and Kim Jong-un — has threatened to blow those democratic alliances apart. Ms. Harris recognizes the need for global solutions to the global problem of climate change and would continue President Biden’s major investments in the industries and technologies necessary to achieve that goal. Mr. Trump rejects the accepted science, and his contempt for low-carbon energy solutions is matched only by his trollish fealty to fossil fuels.

As for immigration, a huge and largely unsolved issue, the former president continues to demonize and dehumanize immigrants, while Ms. Harris at least offers hope for a compromise, long denied by Congress, to secure the borders and return the nation to a sane immigration system.

Many voters have said they want more details about the vice president’s plans, as well as more unscripted encounters in which she explains her vision and policies. They are right to ask. Given the stakes of this election, Ms. Harris may think that she is running a campaign designed to minimize the risks of an unforced error — answering journalists’ questions and offering greater policy detail could court controversy, after all — under the belief that being the only viable alternative to Mr. Trump may be enough to bring her to victory. That strategy may ultimately prove winning, but it’s a disservice to the American people and to her own record. And leaving the public with a sense that she is being shielded from tough questions, as Mr. Biden has been, could backfire by undermining her core argument that a capable new generation stands ready to take the reins of power.

Ms. Harris is not wrong, however, on the clear dangers of returning Mr. Trump to office. He has promised to be a different kind of president this time, one who is unrestrained by checks on power built into the American political system. His pledge to be “a dictator” on “Day 1” might have indeed been a joke — but his undisguised fondness for dictatorships and the strongmen who run them is anything but.

Most notably, he systematically undermined public confidence in the result of the 2020 election and then attempted to overturn it — an effort that culminated in an insurrection at the Capitol to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power and resulted in him and some of his most prominent supporters being charged with crimes. He has not committed to honoring the result of this election and continues to insist, as he did at the debate with Ms. Harris on Sept. 10, that he won in 2020. He has apparently made a willingness to support his lies a litmus test for those in his orbit, starting with JD Vance, who would be his vice president.

His disdain for the rule of law goes beyond his efforts to obtain power; it is also central to how he plans to use it. Mr. Trump and his supporters have described a 2025 agenda that would give him the power to carry out the most extreme of his promises and threats. He vows, for instance, to turn the federal bureaucracy and even the Justice Department into weapons of his will to hurt his political enemies. In at least 10 instances during his presidency, he did exactly that, pressuring federal agencies and prosecutors to punish people he felt had wronged him, with little or no legal basis for prosecution.

Some of the people Mr. Trump appointed in his last term saved America from his most dangerous impulses. They refused to break laws on his behalf and spoke up when he put his own interests above his country’s. As a result, the former president intends, if re-elected, to surround himself with people who are unwilling to defy his demands. Today’s version of Mr. Trump — the twice-impeached version that faces a barrage of criminal charges — may prove to be the restrained version.

Unless American voters stand up to him, Mr. Trump will have the power to do profound and lasting harm to our democracy.

That is not simply an opinion of Mr. Trump’s character by his critics; it is a judgment of his presidency from those who know it best — the very people he appointed to serve in the most important positions of his White House. It is telling that among those who fear a second Trump presidency are people who worked for him and saw him at close range.

Mike Pence, Mr. Trump’s vice president, has repudiated him. No other vice president in modern history has done this. “I believe that anyone who puts themselves over the Constitution should never be president of the United States,” Mr. Pence has said. “And anyone who asks someone else to put them over the Constitution should never be president of the United States again.”

Mr. Trump’s attorney general has raised similar concerns about his fundamental unfitness. And his chief of staff. And his defense secretary. And his national security advisers. And his education secretary. And on and on — a record of denunciation without precedent in the nation’s long history.

That’s not to say Mr. Trump did not add to the public conversation. In particular, he broke decades of Washington consensus and led both parties to wrestle with the downsides of globalization, unrestrained trade and China’s rise. His criminal-justice reform efforts were well placed, his focus on Covid vaccine development paid off, and his decision to use an emergency public health measure to turn away migrants at the border was the right call at the start of the pandemic. Yet even when the former president’s overall aim may have had merit, his operational incompetence, his mercurial temperament and his outright recklessness often led to bad outcomes. Mr. Trump’s tariffs cost Americans billions of dollars. His attacks on China have ratcheted up military tensions with America’s strongest rival and a nuclear superpower. His handling of the Covid crisis contributed to historic declines in confidence in public health, and to the loss of many lives. His overreach on immigration policies, such as his executive order on family separation, was widely denounced as inhumane and often ineffective.

And those were his wins. His tax plan added $2 trillion to the national debt; his promised extension of them would add $5.8 trillion over the next decade. His withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal destabilized the Middle East. His support for antidemocratic strongmen like Mr. Putin emboldened human rights abusers all over the world. He instigated the longest government shutdown ever. His sympathetic comments toward the Proud Boys expanded the influence of domestic right-wing extremist groups.

In the years since he left office, Mr. Trump was convicted on felony charges of falsifying business records, was found liable in civil court for sexual abuse and faces two, possibly three, other criminal cases. He has continued to stoke chaos and encourage violence and lawlessness whenever it suits his political aims, most recently promoting vicious lies against Haitian immigrants. He recognizes that ordinary people — voters, jurors, journalists, election officials, law enforcement officers and many others who are willing to do their duty as citizens and public servants — have the power to hold him to account, so he has spent the past three and a half years trying to undermine them and sow distrust in anyone or any institution that might stand in his way.

Most dangerous for American democracy, Mr. Trump has transformed the Republican Party — an institution that once prided itself on principle and honored its obligations to the law and the Constitution — into little more than an instrument of his quest to regain power. The Republicans who support Ms. Harris recognize that this election is about something more fundamental than narrow partisan interest. It is about principles that go beyond party.

In 2020 this board made the strongest case it could against the re-election of Mr. Trump. Four years later, many Americans have put his excesses out of their minds. We urge them and those who may look back at that period with nostalgia or feel that their lives are not much better now than they were three years ago to recognize that his first term was a warning and that a second Trump term would be much more damaging and divisive than the first.

Kamala Harris is the only choice.


-Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good.

 
Posts: 16311 | Registered: 20 September 2012Reply With Quote
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You Harris'propaganda minister? promises mean not hing to her except maybe another vote...No... she must be judged by her own dismal record
 
Posts: 3689 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
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Kamala Harris would bankrupt a lemonade stand. Donald Trump would turn it into a multi-million dollar business. Mitchell seems all excited after his daily conference call. Likely a seminar troll.
 
Posts: 3889 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Donald Trump would turn it into a multi-million dollar business.

…with his name on it, and THEN bankrupt it. That freak of nature doesn’t want to govern the U.S., he wants to own it in the same manner that Putin owns Russia and Kim owns North Korea. His only motivation is selfishness.

You might want to enumerate Trumps bankruptcies with Harris’ while you’re at it.
 
Posts: 6034 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 14 November 2002Reply With Quote
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Spoken like a true Canadian socialist! And Castro's bastard child doesn't own you? Accuse others of doing what you do. I bet you told your mommy that your sister ate the cookies didn't you?

quote:
Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
quote:
Donald Trump would turn it into a multi-million dollar business.

…with his name on it, and THEN bankrupt it. That freak of nature doesn’t want to govern the U.S., he wants to own it in the same manner that Putin owns Russia and Kim owns North Korea. His only motivation is selfishness.

You might want to enumerate Trumps bankruptcies with Harris’ while you’re at it.
 
Posts: 3889 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobster:
Kamala Harris would bankrupt a lemonade stand. Donald Trump would turn it into a multi-million dollar business. Mitchell seems all excited after his daily conference call. Likely a seminar troll.


Yet the Vice President has never filed bankruptcy, while your Orange Saviour has been bankrupt what, six times? And is now hocking nonexistent watches for $100,000 a pop?

Just out of intellectual curiosity, not ever having had the experience myself, is it painful being that stupid? I know it must make getting through the day pretty difficult but is there physical pain associated with it, beyond the obvious trauma from walking into doors and tying your shoes together?


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11102 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Stupid people--not to point to anyone here--don't know they're stupid. They simply can't conceive of a level of intelligence higher than their own low ceiling.

They're as blissful as cattle. Or else disturbed, upset, and angered by things they don't understand.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobster:
Spoken like a true Canadian socialist! And Castro's bastard child doesn't own you? Accuse others of doing what you do. I bet you told your mommy that your sister ate the cookies didn't you?

quote:
Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
quote:
Donald Trump would turn it into a multi-million dollar business.

…with his name on it, and THEN bankrupt it. That freak of nature doesn’t want to govern the U.S., he wants to own it in the same manner that Putin owns Russia and Kim owns North Korea. His only motivation is selfishness.

You might want to enumerate Trumps bankruptcies with Harris’ while you’re at it.


You can't refute his argument, so you resort to flaming, a personal attack.

How typical of Trump supporters on the internet.

But it's not typical of the conservatives remaining on this site as regular members. It's the drop-ins that revert to type.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Harris has never had a real job, let alone owned one or been an entrepreneur and started any. She is a political leech. Any business person who has been successful will eventually have a business fail and be forced to sell off or bankrupt it. It is the way of the world. Just because Harris is corrupt and incompetent is not a moral badge of courage compared to a successful business person. She has blatently told the American people she intends to take their money and re-distribute it. She wants to enter your homes and inspect your gun storge. That sounds like ownership to me. There, the argument is refuted.
 
Posts: 3889 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Actually Trump started or created over 300 businesses... only 6 went belly up... add up all the businesses Obama, biden and Kamila started and its still ZERO FOR ZERO.

I think trump has the edge on this one.


NRA Benefactor.

Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne
 
Posts: 1985 | Location: The Three Lower Counties (Delaware USA) | Registered: 13 September 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
You Harris'propaganda minister? promises mean not hing to her except maybe another vote...No... she must be judged by her own dismal record


trump is a seditionist.

It's interesting how the trump supporters can just set that aside.

Or, is this the part where you claim you aren't a trump supporter?


-Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good.

 
Posts: 16311 | Registered: 20 September 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
Actually Trump started or created over 300 businesses... only 6 went belly up... add up all the businesses Obama, biden and Kamila started and its still ZERO FOR ZERO.

I think trump has the edge on this one.


Is there any lie you people won't tell? Here's a partial list.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...t-failed/ar-BB1ntZby
 
Posts: 16311 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 10 April 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Actually Trump started or created over 300 businesses... only 6 went belly up...


Better watch your terminology there. Trump had six failed companies with assets sufficient to pay the costs of bankruptcy. But "belly up" also counts companies that just quietly go out of business.

How many other businesses of his, stripped of assets, were quietly allowed to fold? What happened to Trump steaks? Trump University? Are Trump sneakers still around?

It would be interesting to see how many of his 300 companies are still in business.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by wymple:
quote:
Originally posted by Pa.Frank:
Actually Trump started or created over 300 businesses... only 6 went belly up... add up all the businesses Obama, biden and Kamila started and its still ZERO FOR ZERO.

I think trump has the edge on this one.


Is there any lie you people won't tell? Here's a partial list.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone...t-failed/ar-BB1ntZby


That's what I'm talking about too--you just beat me to the punch.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Bobster:
Harris has never had a real job, let alone owned one or been an entrepreneur and started any. She is a political leech. Any business person who has been successful will eventually have a business fail and be forced to sell off or bankrupt it. It is the way of the world. Just because Harris is corrupt and incompetent is not a moral badge of courage compared to a successful business person. She has blatently told the American people she intends to take their money and re-distribute it. She wants to enter your homes and inspect your gun storge. That sounds like ownership to me. There, the argument is refuted.



At least you've limited yourself to the issues this time. But you haven't refuted anything.

You've said some lies about Harris. She worked as a DA, and that's a real job. A real hard job, probably with longer hours than you've ever worked.

When did she say she's going to take Americans' money and redistribute it? Do you have a link to her actual words?

Same for your claim about her wanting to inspect gun storage in our homes? Where's the link?
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Jeffive & Roland,
Always so nice to see you two and a few others with the constant stream of insults.
 
Posts: 827 | Registered: 26 November 2009Reply With Quote
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IMO, my patriotic choice is to abstain.

I can’t vote for Harris.

No ones given me a good reason to vote for her… she’s not Trump isn’t a good reason to vote for HER.

I can’t vote for Trump either. “He’s not a democrat” isn’t enough either.
 
Posts: 11343 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Gundog 64:
Jeffive & Roland,
Always so nice to see you two and a few others with the constant stream of insults.


What insults?
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bobster:
Harris has never had a real job, let alone owned one or been an entrepreneur and started any. She is a political leech. Any business person who has been successful will eventually have a business fail and be forced to sell off or bankrupt it. It is the way of the world. Just because Harris is corrupt and incompetent is not a moral badge of courage compared to a successful business person. She has blatently told the American people she intends to take their money and re-distribute it. She wants to enter your homes and inspect your gun storge. That sounds like ownership to me. There, the argument is refuted.


You don't think being a prosecutor or a District Attorney isn't a real job? You are either uninformed or stupid. She prosecuted hundreds of cases as an ADA and thousands as the DA. Tell us all...where did you go to law school and where did you work as a lawyer that allows you to evaluate these things?

I get you don't like her. But, don't tell stupid refutable lies.

>>>>In 1989, Harris became a lawyer after studying at Hastings College of Law at the University of California. She worked in the office of the District Attorney of Alameda in 1990. In 1998, Harris left to work for the District Attorney’s office in San Francisco. In 2003, Harris became the District Attorney of San Francisco.

She worked as the attorney general of California until 2017 when she became a senator for California.[13]

At the start of 2016, Harris said that she would attempt to become senator after Barbara Boxer said that she would not work as a senator for the next term. Harris won the position in 2016 and became a senator on January 3, 2017.[14]


-Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good.

 
Posts: 16311 | Registered: 20 September 2012Reply With Quote
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I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.

I'm befuddled (for lack of a better word) That Trump is the GOPer nominee.

I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.

I don't mean to be gaslighting. I'm saying my perspective. I don't like to use the word "feeling". But with Trump as a potential POTUS again, I'm feeling down about it, on several levels.

There's no way, IMO, that Trump in the reality of national and world affairs is a good thing. I simply cannot understand why he is enabled and supported. What's wrong with these people? IMO, he and all he stands for should be utterly rejected.


*************
Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks"

D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal.



 
Posts: 22190 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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Posts: 16311 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 10 April 2007Reply With Quote
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If you’re anticipating the rise of an Evil Empire, you’re better off being inside than outside.

Look how many Brits supported Hitler (including elements within the Royal family), and how many Russians support Putin. North Koreans weep in ecstasy at the sight of Kim, and many of the kids on the playground are eager to fall in with the biggest bully. Where some see peril, others see strength.

Darkness and Light are always in a delicate balance, but rarely has the contrast been more noticeable. With the U.S. being the principal remaining bastion against autocracy, Trump poses a tremendous risk to the western democracies.

Eurasia. Eastasia. The Americas. Let the games begin.
 
Posts: 6034 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 14 November 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Stupid people--not to point to anyone here--don't know they're stupid. They simply can't conceive of a level of intelligence higher than their own low ceiling.

They're as blissful as cattle. Or else disturbed, upset, and angered by things they don't understand.


Looking in the mirror ?


Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
 
Posts: 866 | Location: South Pacific NW | Registered: 09 January 2021Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.

I'm befuddled (for lack of a better word) That Trump is the GOPer nominee.

I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.

I don't mean to be gaslighting. I'm saying my perspective. I don't like to use the word "feeling". But with Trump as a potential POTUS again, I'm feeling down about it, on several levels.

There's no way, IMO, that Trump in the reality of national and world affairs is a good thing. I simply cannot understand why he is enabled and supported. What's wrong with these people? IMO, he and all he stands for should be utterly rejected.


It's likely not as close as the "polls" would have you believe, there's a lot of fuckery going on with them, Rasmussen just got caught coordinating with the Trump campaign, which is a mite peculiar for a supposedly "objective" polling organization.

Remember the "Red Wave" the polls were predicting in 2022?


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11102 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by rcraig:
quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Stupid people--not to point to anyone here--don't know they're stupid. They simply can't conceive of a level of intelligence higher than their own low ceiling.

They're as blissful as cattle. Or else disturbed, upset, and angered by things they don't understand.


Looking in the mirror ?


A perfect illustration of what I was talking about.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
quote:
Originally posted by rcraig:
quote:
Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Stupid people--not to point to anyone here--don't know they're stupid. They simply can't conceive of a level of intelligence higher than their own low ceiling.

They're as blissful as cattle. Or else disturbed, upset, and angered by things they don't understand.


Looking in the mirror ?


A perfect illustration of what I was talking about.


Yup, you are indeed a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Keep up the good work, and don't forget to wipe your chin.


Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
 
Posts: 866 | Location: South Pacific NW | Registered: 09 January 2021Reply With Quote
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Another conservative who can't address the thread topic without getting personal.

Maybe you could explain how Trump can be a patriot's choice for president.
 
Posts: 7171 | Location: Coeur d' Alene, Idaho, USA | Registered: 08 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38708 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


-Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good.

 
Posts: 16311 | Registered: 20 September 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


I dunno…’Felon in Chief’ has a certain ring to it.

It would certainly be history making, an unprecedented pinnacle of achievement for a convicted criminal. What a glorious opportunity to sell the nation he was elected to lead!
 
Posts: 6034 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 14 November 2002Reply With Quote
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It's practically impossible to post a table or chart, so I did the best I could.

The sequence is Vice of excess, Vice of deficiency, Virtue.

Using Trump as an avatar, it's hard to find a virtue that fits, but vices are easy to associate. The only virtues that I can see that Trump may have are Endurance and Pride, but the vices he has fuck that up too.

IOW, he's all about vices.

https://people.uvawise.edu/phi...y/PHIL110/Table.html

Table of Virtues and Vices
Aristotle
Eudemian Ethics, Bk. 2, 1221
(Compare to Nicomachean Ethics)

Vice of excess, Vice of deficiency, Virtue
Irascibility, Impassivity, Gentle temper
Foolhardiness, Cowardice, Bravery
Shamelessness, Thin-skinned, Shame
Intemperance, Insensibility, Temperance
Envy, (unnamed), Fair-mindedness
Gain, Disadvantage, Justice
Prodigality, Meanness, Liberality
Boastfulness, Mock-modesty, Truthfulness
Flattery, Churlishness, Friendliness
Unaccommodatingness, Servility, Dignity
Imperviousness, Softness, Endurance
Vanity, Meanness of spirit, Pride
Ostentatious extravagance, Niggardliness, Magnificence
Unscrupulousness, Unworldliness, Practical wisdom

============================

Talking about virtues is not easy, partially because there are various lists, some religious. So, I chose Aristotle.

Here's a long article, which I didn't read all of it. The last three paragraphs are sufficient to get the point, IMO.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/

===============================================

And here's a good explanation of the differences in Values and Virtues:

https://scottjeffrey.com/list-of-virtues/


*************
Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks"

D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal.



 
Posts: 22190 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.

I'm befuddled (for lack of a better word) That Trump is the GOPer nominee.

I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.

I don't mean to be gaslighting. I'm saying my perspective. I don't like to use the word "feeling". But with Trump as a potential POTUS again, I'm feeling down about it, on several levels.

There's no way, IMO, that Trump in the reality of national and world affairs is a good thing. I simply cannot understand why he is enabled and supported. What's wrong with these people? IMO, he and all he stands for should be utterly rejected.


I'll breath easier at a point when a Democratic candidate draws moderate Republican votes, or vice versa.

This isn't it. This is lesser-of-two-evils, again.


TomP

Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right.

Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906)
 
Posts: 14844 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


I don’t know any seditionists…but I damn know from good data to never trust a democrat!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38708 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
I'll breath easier at a point when a Democratic candidate draws moderate Republican votes


Harris IS drawing moderate republican votes, from what I've read.


*************
Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks"

D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal.



 
Posts: 22190 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


I don’t know any seditionists…but I damn know from good data to never trust a democrat!


So, you must not be keeping up:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Oath Keepers founder guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Nov 29, 2022 5:45 PM EDT

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Jury finds 4 Oath Keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Jan 23, 2023 2:54 PM EDT

=============================================

The master-mind seditionist is still on the loose, running amuck and for office.


*************
Degenerate 1:1
1 Then Trump said, "Let Us re-make a Nation in MY Image, after My likeness, to rule over everything in the Nation, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it".

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks"

D.J. Trump aka Trumpism's Founding Farter, aka Farter Martyr. Qualifications: flatulence - mental, oral and anal.



 
Posts: 22190 | Location: Depends on the Season | Registered: 17 February 2017Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


I don’t know any seditionists…but I damn know from good data to never trust a democrat!


So, you must not be keeping up:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Oath Keepers founder guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Nov 29, 2022 5:45 PM EDT

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Jury finds 4 Oath Keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Jan 23, 2023 2:54 PM EDT

=============================================

The master-mind seditionist is still on the loose, running amuck and for office.


Lane's loyalty is to Trump, not the Constitution. To him "sedition" is not supporting Trump no matter what he does.


"If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?”- Donald Trump
 
Posts: 11102 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 09 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
I just have to say that I'm dismayed (for lack of a better word) that this contest between Trump and Harris is even close. It ain't right.


quote:
I don't have the trust in my fellow Americans that I used to have and always assumed a base line of a cluster of virtues was common ground.



I am right there with you.


Me too. I don't trust seditionists.


I don’t know any seditionists…but I damn know from good data to never trust a democrat!


So, you must not be keeping up:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Oath Keepers founder guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Nov 29, 2022 5:45 PM EDT

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...piracy-in-jan-6-case

Jury finds 4 Oath Keepers guilty of seditious conspiracy in Jan. 6 case
Politics Jan 23, 2023 2:54 PM EDT

=============================================

The master-mind seditionist is still on the loose, running amuck and for office.


Don’t know any Oath Keepers…do you?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38708 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I know who the ones are that stood trial and were convicted.

I know Trump feed them the lies that bloomed into action.
 
Posts: 12892 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ledvm
posted Hide Post
Roll Eyes


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
 
Posts: 38708 | Location: Gainesville, TX | Registered: 24 December 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Scott King
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:

Don’t know any Oath Keepers…do you?


How it got handled here.

https://alaskapublic.org/2024/...judiciary-committee/
 
Posts: 9750 | Location: Dillingham Alaska | Registered: 10 April 2006Reply With Quote
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