quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
So much for being a negotiating tactic. President Trump has signed an Executive Order imposing tariffs on Canada.

Again, unless Congress passes legislation permitting the President to impose tariffs, the President cannot unilaterally impose tariffs. However, respect for constitutional separation of powers has never stopped President Trump nor his boot lickers.

I would not believe a word the equine surgeon says.

I would not be surprised if he saw border crossers burning Texas virgins in sacrifice, only to come here and tell us all is fine bc a R is President.

but who will challenge his executive orders? from what i gather the tariffs are starting this coming tuesday and canada will reply or retaliate before ...

Others are known to challenge his executive orders by filing a lawsuit.

sp wait and see. during the trump 1.0 he raised some price and less than a year after he rescinded them but i doubt this time he will do it ... he s on something and want us to be the 51st state ... but so far the people i know has not been attracted by this threat/offer ...

Oh, and Dr. Eater true to form tries to marginalize those who refute his nonsense.

The author and the quote are not clerks at a lumbar yard. The quote is from a tenure tract professor of forest economics and policy at NC State.

A person who knows what he speaks. A person who is not an uninformed, misleading political hack.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Who are we going to believe. The greatest raisins surgeon or these folks concerning lumber prices:

https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2025...rump-administration/

Trump’s proposed tariff would require U.S. companies to pay a 25% tax to the U.S. government when importing Canadian softwood lumber products, with the goal of encouraging those companies to invest in domestic production instead.

U.S. companies would likely attempt to recoup tariff-related losses by raising the price of Canadian softwood lumber, which would potentially impact the housing market by making building materials more expensive.

“Tariffs unequivocally work towards pushing domestic lumber prices higher. When that happens, it usually adds up to higher costs for consumers,” Parajuli said.

When domestic lumber prices rise, U.S. companies benefit from increased profits as U.S. consumers have to pay more money for imported lumber, at least as long as demand for building materials and other lumber products remains steady.

Parajuli highlighted the 2006 U.S.–Canada Softwood Lumber Agreement as an example of how tariffs can impact the supply chain. The agreement essentially allowed Canadian provinces to charge an export tax on softwood lumber purchased by U.S. companies.

Under the agreement, which was active until 2015, U.S. lumber producers gained $1.6 billion and U.S. consumers lost $2.3 billion as softwood lumber imports from Canada declined by 7.78% in the months when export taxes took effect.

“U.S. consumers not only paid producers’ gains, but also the losses that resulted from the export taxes,” Parajuli said.

Dr. Easter is lying to all of you. He knows these tariffs will be a hammer to our economy. He does not care because he has a hone paid for. He does not care because it is an R doing it. If President Biden attempted to harm our economy like Trump has w these tariffs, Dr. Easter would be leading the charge.

He is a lier and a hypocrite.

What I believe is the checkout attendant at the lumberyard.

I buy, remodel (have a carpenter partner), and resell houses. So far my bills haven’t gone up.

Hey, if you need to buy a slim house to live in, Dr. Easter is your msn.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Oh, and Dr. Eater true to form tries to marginalize those who refute his nonsense.

The author and the quote are not clerks at a lumbar yard. The quote is from a tenure tract professor of forest economics and policy at NC State.

A person who knows what he speaks. A person who is not an uninformed, misleading political hack.

it's okay, stevie-poo and little mike will be right along to say some off topic stuff, hoping to make themselves feel better .. dopamine is a hell of a drug

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Who are we going to believe. The greatest raisins surgeon or these folks concerning lumber prices:

https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2025...rump-administration/

Trump’s proposed tariff would require U.S. companies to pay a 25% tax to the U.S. government when importing Canadian softwood lumber products, with the goal of encouraging those companies to invest in domestic production instead.

U.S. companies would likely attempt to recoup tariff-related losses by raising the price of Canadian softwood lumber, which would potentially impact the housing market by making building materials more expensive.

“Tariffs unequivocally work towards pushing domestic lumber prices higher. When that happens, it usually adds up to higher costs for consumers,” Parajuli said.

When domestic lumber prices rise, U.S. companies benefit from increased profits as U.S. consumers have to pay more money for imported lumber, at least as long as demand for building materials and other lumber products remains steady.

Parajuli highlighted the 2006 U.S.–Canada Softwood Lumber Agreement as an example of how tariffs can impact the supply chain. The agreement essentially allowed Canadian provinces to charge an export tax on softwood lumber purchased by U.S. companies.

Under the agreement, which was active until 2015, U.S. lumber producers gained $1.6 billion and U.S. consumers lost $2.3 billion as softwood lumber imports from Canada declined by 7.78% in the months when export taxes took effect.

“U.S. consumers not only paid producers’ gains, but also the losses that resulted from the export taxes,” Parajuli said.

Dr. Easter is lying to all of you. He knows these tariffs will be a hammer to our economy. He does not care because he has a hone paid for. He does not care because it is an R doing it. If President Biden attempted to harm our economy like Trump has w these tariffs, Dr. Easter would be leading the charge.

He is a lier and a hypocrite.

What I believe is the checkout attendant at the lumberyard.

I buy, remodel (have a carpenter partner), and resell houses. So far my bills haven’t gone up.

What are you lying about Mike? Your nose is growing!

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Who are we going to believe. The greatest raisins surgeon or these folks concerning lumber prices:

https://cnr.ncsu.edu/news/2025...rump-administration/

Trump’s proposed tariff would require U.S. companies to pay a 25% tax to the U.S. government when importing Canadian softwood lumber products, with the goal of encouraging those companies to invest in domestic production instead.

U.S. companies would likely attempt to recoup tariff-related losses by raising the price of Canadian softwood lumber, which would potentially impact the housing market by making building materials more expensive.

“Tariffs unequivocally work towards pushing domestic lumber prices higher. When that happens, it usually adds up to higher costs for consumers,” Parajuli said.

When domestic lumber prices rise, U.S. companies benefit from increased profits as U.S. consumers have to pay more money for imported lumber, at least as long as demand for building materials and other lumber products remains steady.

Parajuli highlighted the 2006 U.S.–Canada Softwood Lumber Agreement as an example of how tariffs can impact the supply chain. The agreement essentially allowed Canadian provinces to charge an export tax on softwood lumber purchased by U.S. companies.

Under the agreement, which was active until 2015, U.S. lumber producers gained $1.6 billion and U.S. consumers lost $2.3 billion as softwood lumber imports from Canada declined by 7.78% in the months when export taxes took effect.

“U.S. consumers not only paid producers’ gains, but also the losses that resulted from the export taxes,” Parajuli said.

Dr. Easter is lying to all of you. He knows these tariffs will be a hammer to our economy. He does not care because he has a hone paid for. He does not care because it is an R doing it. If President Biden attempted to harm our economy like Trump has w these tariffs, Dr. Easter would be leading the charge.

He is a lier and a hypocrite.

What I believe is the checkout attendant at the lumberyard.

I buy, remodel (have a carpenter partner), and resell houses. So far my bills haven’t gone up.

What are you lying about Mike? Your nose is growing!

little mike doesn't like being called out - he'll call you a girls name and thing he's victorious, rather than pathetic

There is a,lot of penis measuring going on here.....but I wonder why when we have millions of acres of timber land here in the US we need to import so much Canadian lumber? Our timber is easily our most read renewable resource.

Why do we need to import Canadian crude?

Ill tell you why. Government regulations and special interest.

We need to put our loggers to work.....reduce some forest fires maybe.....drill baby drill, for sure.

We need to hold, especially our southern neighbor (that gaping chest wound that is mayheeco) accountable for all the illegals from south America they are funneling to us, not to mention the drugs coming across our southern border.

What we've done for the last four years was a patent failure....do you all just want more of the same?

I dont.

I dont want to pay higher taxes to get us out of this mess, government will just use the money to buy votes anyway.....I'd much rather see more Americans working and us business making more money and paying taxes to pay this mess down.

Daisy, I wondered where you had been. Must have been chasing cars and barking. I will see if I can get Naki, Steve or one of your other playmates to post so you will have someone else to play fetch with.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
There is a,lot of penis measuring going on here.....but I wonder why when we have millions of acres of timber land here in the US we need to import so much Canadian lumber? Our timber is easily our most read renewable resource.

Why do we need to import Canadian crude?

Ill tell you why. Government regulations and special interest.

We need to put our loggers to work.....reduce some forest fires maybe.....drill baby drill, for sure.

We need to hold, especially our southern neighbor (that gaping chest wound that is mayheeco) accountable for all the illegals from south America they are funneling to us, not to mention the drugs coming across our southern border.

What we've done for the last four years was a patent failure....do you all just want more of the same?

I dont.

I dont want to pay higher taxes to get us out of this mess, government will just use the money to buy votes anyway.....I'd much rather see more Americans working and us business making more money and paying taxes to pay this mess down.

Amen brother!

Jim, maybe you need to read up on tariffs. Did the Trump tariffs last term increase US manufacturing jobs? Nope. The tariffs Trump imposed on Chinese goods in 2018 had a net negative effect on manufacturing jobs as well overall U.S. employment. The Federal Reserve Board found that the tariffs caused a reduction in manufacturing employment of 1.4%. Modest gains (0.3%) achieved by shielding domestic producers from foreign competition were “more than offset” by rising production costs for manufacturers who used steel as an input (-1.1%) and retaliatory tariffs (-0.7%). Tariffs, like subsidies, always produce unintended consequences. But they play well to the base since they have no clue.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Jim, maybe you need to read up on tariffs. Did the Trump tariffs last term increase US manufacturing jobs? Nope. The tariffs Trump imposed on Chinese goods in 2018 had a net negative effect on manufacturing jobs as well overall U.S. employment. The Federal Reserve Board found that the tariffs caused a reduction in manufacturing employment of 1.4%. Modest gains (0.3%) achieved by shielding domestic producers from foreign competition were “more than offset” by rising production costs for manufacturers who used steel as an input (-1.1%) and retaliatory tariffs (-0.7%).

and yet, under 4 years of "wise latinas" those tariffs are still IN PLACE .. yumyum, get ya some, mike

. . . please share with me where I ever said tariffs imposed by either side make sense. I’ll wait.



Guess why the Dems left the Trump tariffs in place? Because tariffs work effectively as tax increases. And the only party that likes tax increases more than the Reps is the Dems. The Tax Foundation estimates the 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent tariffs on China will shrink economic output by 0.4 percent and increase taxes by $1.2 trillion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $830 per US household in 2025. The tariffs on Canada and Mexico alone would increase taxes by $958 billion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $670 per US household in 2025. The first Trump tariffs imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. History shows tariffs raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for US businesses and consumers, resulting in lower income, reduced employment, and lower economic output. But let’s not talk about that. It’s easier for the MAGAts to just think of tariffs like a stick you poke in the other country’s eye . . . all the while wondering how you got a splinter in your own eye.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . please share with me where I ever said tariffs imposed by either side make sense. I’ll wait.



Guess why the Dems left the Trump tariffs in place? Because tariffs work effectively as tax increases. And the only party that likes tax increases more than the Reps is the Dems. The Tax Foundation estimates the 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent tariffs on China will shrink economic output by 0.4 percent and increase taxes by $1.2 trillion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $830 per US household in 2025. The tariffs on Canada and Mexico alone would increase taxes by $958 billion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $670 per US household in 2025. The first Trump tariffs imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. History shows tariffs raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for US businesses and consumers, resulting in lower income, reduced employment, and lower economic output. But let’s not talk about that. It’s easier for the MAGAts to just think of tariffs like a stick you poke in the other country’s eye . . . all the while wondering how you got a splinter in your own eye.

that is a sad day when i have to agree with your whole post Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Oh, and Dr. Eater true to form tries to marginalize those who refute his nonsense.

The author and the quote are not clerks at a lumbar yard. The quote is from a tenure tract professor of forest economics and policy at NC State.

A person who knows what he speaks. A person who is not an uninformed, misleading political hack.

it's okay, stevie-poo and little mike will be right along to say some off topic stuff, hoping to make themselves feel better .. dopamine is a hell of a drug

Daisy, go lay down honey. We don't need any ankles nipped.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . please share with me where I ever said tariffs imposed by either side make sense. I’ll wait.



Guess why the Dems left the Trump tariffs in place? Because tariffs work effectively as tax increases. And the only party that likes tax increases more than the Reps is the Dems. The Tax Foundation estimates the 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent tariffs on China will shrink economic output by 0.4 percent and increase taxes by $1.2 trillion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $830 per US household in 2025. The tariffs on Canada and Mexico alone would increase taxes by $958 billion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $670 per US household in 2025. The first Trump tariffs imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. History shows tariffs raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for US businesses and consumers, resulting in lower income, reduced employment, and lower economic output. But let’s not talk about that. It’s easier for the MAGAts to just think of tariffs like a stick you poke in the other country’s eye . . . all the while wondering how you got a splinter in your own eye.

Just a couple of points to make:
1) Our federal government has spent itself into a tremendous hole. Both sides to blame. That said, a new plan has to be made to reduce that deficit.

2) In 2019, pre COVID under the height of Trump’s prior term…none of the negatives in your post were reality. Goods were plentiful and relatively cheap. Unemployment was low. Income was relatively high. And GDP was increasing. Without COVID, Trump would have sailed into a second term on economic prosperity of the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Oh, and Dr. Eater true to form tries to marginalize those who refute his nonsense.

The author and the quote are not clerks at a lumbar yard. The quote is from a tenure tract professor of forest economics and policy at NC State.

A person who knows what he speaks. A person who is not an uninformed, misleading political hack.

it's okay, stevie-poo and little mike will be right along to say some off topic stuff, hoping to make themselves feel better .. dopamine is a hell of a drug

Daisy, go lay down honey. We don't need any ankles nipped.

Hey little Steve,
i have to ask, with you following around, sniffing after me, is it the view or the aroma you enjoy?

Ouch, my ankle....stop Daisey before you break the skin. Now go lay down honey.

what did i step in? (sniff) DANG IT, i got some bertram on my boot -- even when you manage to wipe and pressure wash it off, the smell lingers

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Ouch, my ankle....stop Daisey before you break the skin. Now go lay down honey.

. . . he needs a bully stick to chew on.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . please share with me where I ever said tariffs imposed by either side make sense. I’ll wait.



Guess why the Dems left the Trump tariffs in place? Because tariffs work effectively as tax increases. And the only party that likes tax increases more than the Reps is the Dems. The Tax Foundation estimates the 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent tariffs on China will shrink economic output by 0.4 percent and increase taxes by $1.2 trillion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $830 per US household in 2025. The tariffs on Canada and Mexico alone would increase taxes by $958 billion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $670 per US household in 2025. The first Trump tariffs imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. History shows tariffs raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for US businesses and consumers, resulting in lower income, reduced employment, and lower economic output. But let’s not talk about that. It’s easier for the MAGAts to just think of tariffs like a stick you poke in the other country’s eye . . . all the while wondering how you got a splinter in your own eye.

Just a couple of points to make:
1) Our federal government has spent itself into a tremendous hole. Both sides to blame. That said, a new plan has to be made to reduce that deficit.

2) In 2019, pre COVID under the height of Trump’s prior term…none of the negatives in your post were reality. Goods were plentiful and relatively cheap. Unemployment was low. Income was relatively high. And GDP was increasing. Without COVID, Trump would have sailed into a second term on economic prosperity of the time.

. . . so, if this is just the latest greatest effort to tax our way to a deficit reduction, why doesn't The Esteemed Leader just say that is the case? Why does he send his new press liaison toy out there to say it is in some way related to tens of millions of fentanyl deaths? (By the way, you being a statistical wizard and all, the highest number of fentanyl deaths in any year in the US was approximately 75,000. If there have been tens of millions of fentanyl deaths, at 75,000 a year, fentanyl has been killing folks in the US since around the 1890's.)

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . please share with me where I ever said tariffs imposed by either side make sense. I’ll wait.



Guess why the Dems left the Trump tariffs in place? Because tariffs work effectively as tax increases. And the only party that likes tax increases more than the Reps is the Dems. The Tax Foundation estimates the 25 percent tariffs on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent tariffs on China will shrink economic output by 0.4 percent and increase taxes by $1.2 trillion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $830 per US household in 2025. The tariffs on Canada and Mexico alone would increase taxes by $958 billion between 2025 and 2034 on a conventional basis, amounting to an average tax increase of more than $670 per US household in 2025. The first Trump tariffs imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades. History shows tariffs raise prices and reduce available quantities of goods and services for US businesses and consumers, resulting in lower income, reduced employment, and lower economic output. But let’s not talk about that. It’s easier for the MAGAts to just think of tariffs like a stick you poke in the other country’s eye . . . all the while wondering how you got a splinter in your own eye.

Just a couple of points to make:
1) Our federal government has spent itself into a tremendous hole. Both sides to blame. That said, a new plan has to be made to reduce that deficit.

2) In 2019, pre COVID under the height of Trump’s prior term…none of the negatives in your post were reality. Goods were plentiful and relatively cheap. Unemployment was low. Income was relatively high. And GDP was increasing. Without COVID, Trump would have sailed into a second term on economic prosperity of the time.

. . . so, if this is just the latest greatest effort to tax our way to a deficit reduction, why doesn't The Esteemed Leader just say that is the case? Why does he send his new press liaison toy out there to say it is in some way related to tens of millions of fentanyl deaths? (By the way, you being a statistical wizard and all, the highest number of fentanyl deaths in any year in the US was approximately 75,000. If there have been tens of millions of fentanyl deaths, at 75,000 a year, fentanyl has been killing folks in the US since around the 1890's.)

I heard her with my own ears say “10s of millions” and cringed.

She made a mistake and should correct. I am sure she meant “10s of thousands.”

But fentanyl is a problem…don’t you agree?

Fentanyl is a problem. However, I doubt anything done with these tariffs will have any effect on fentanyl.

Tell us how these tariffs will have an impact on fentanyl?

After all, this is a debate on the impacts of tariffs.

Every line is complaining about this much a pickup cost, well guess where most of a GM is built? Canada and Mexico.

The price just went up thanks to a president who ran on things costing too much.

A mistake? It was no mistake. It is like most of the other things they say, use inflammatory language to keep the intellectually-impaired base worked up in a lather. Of course, fentanyl is a problem, but so is pandering to a base that accepts everything at face value from folks that are being intentionally disingenuous.

It was a mistake for “10s of thousands” which is true and a helluva lot. She said it…and she should correct. It immediately clicked with me as a foopah.

Fentanyl is a problem is all I said. It is.

A few months ago there was a push here by Steve, Joshua, and other suspects that we need more revenue to reduce the deficit.

Maybe this works, maybe it doesn’t, but in 2019…the economy in toto was very good.

Pushing the tax burden on to those who can least afford it is not good policy in my mind. Much of our winter fruits veggies come from Mexico, those increased costs will not be absorbed by retailers.

If fentanyl is the concern, then why on earth would he pardon Ross Ulbricht?

The tariffs are shit policy, plain and simple.

One thing we know for sure…past trajectory and strategy definitely not working for deficit reduction.

Time will tell…sky is not falling. Tariffs are reversible. And maybe they will be a good stick in the carrot/stick game.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The tariffs are shit policy, plain and simple.

. . . but they allow Trump to perpetuate an image with his ever faithful stooges that he is strong, bold and not prepared to take any crap off of other countries . . . all the while fucking his own country and the stooges that support him. Seriously, our problem in the US is that we allow idiots to vote . . . on both sides.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The tariffs are shit policy, plain and simple.

. . . but they allow Trump to perpetuate an image with his ever faithful stooges that he is strong, bold and not prepared to take any crap off of other countries . . . all the while fucking his own country and the stooges that support him. Seriously, our problem in the US is that we allow idiots to vote . . . on both sides.

2019 was a great year.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Jim, maybe you need to read up on tariffs. Did the Trump tariffs last term increase US manufacturing jobs? Nope. The tariffs Trump imposed on Chinese goods in 2018 had a net negative effect on manufacturing jobs as well overall U.S. employment. The Federal Reserve Board found that the tariffs caused a reduction in manufacturing employment of 1.4%. Modest gains (0.3%) achieved by shielding domestic producers from foreign competition were “more than offset” by rising production costs for manufacturers who used steel as an input (-1.1%) and retaliatory tariffs (-0.7%). Tariffs, like subsidies, always produce unintended consequences. But they play well to the base since they have no clue.

Mike, I dunno.....

Before COVID in trumps first term our unemployment was incredibly low as was inflation.....

I dont really know who to believe, but I do know that our economy was humming during trump one before COVID.

I do know that we are totally shat upon by Mexico and I don't like it. They need us much more than we need them.,I dont like them being owned by the cartels and they aren't doing a thing about it. I dont like them funneling all those illegals to us. If nothing else they need to pay for that.

Canada, I'm more mixed on.....but I do know that we are subsidizing their timber and oil industries by dumbass regulations here...I dont know how that calls for tariffs though.....

China is the enemy of the planet,......every country should censure them.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The tariffs are shit policy, plain and simple.

. . . but they allow Trump to perpetuate an image with his ever faithful stooges that he is strong, bold and not prepared to take any crap off of other countries . . . all the while fucking his own country and the stooges that support him. Seriously, our problem in the US is that we allow idiots to vote . . . on both sides.

2019 was a great year.

Yeah.....I didn't understand that post either?????

Canadian response to Trump's tariff should be nothing, in the short term. It costs Canada nothing and US consumers can go ahead a pay the extra. Retailers don't mind import duties because they generally mark them up; they just become a part of the product they sell. The exceptions should be hydroelectric power for the north eastern grid, crude oil, and Canadian logs. Trump says they have all the energy they need so there is no reason not to shut those lines down for maintenance. He says the same for oil, so trade deals should be put in place with Europe for refined products from Canada. He also has all the timber he needs, so log exports can halt and finished lumber markets exist elsewhere. As far as American products are concerned, most American companies are having their products made in China anyway, so we can just go to the manufacturer and cut out the American middleman.
It needs to be said; Justin Trudeau has no real authority to speak for Canadians. He has less support than any prime minister in recent history. He is holding on to power against the wishes of the majority of Canadians. Kamala Harris had double the support that Trudeau has. For this reason alone, I don't think Canada should respond in any way until after an election is held. After that, all efforts should be made to find more trustworthy trading partners. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Canadian response to Trump's tariff should be nothing, in the short term. It costs Canada nothing and US consumers can go ahead a pay the extra. Retailers don't mind import duties because they generally mark them up; they just become a part of the product they sell. The exceptions should be hydroelectric power for the north eastern grid, crude oil, and Canadian logs. Trump says they have all the energy they need so there is no reason not to shut those lines down for maintenance. He says the same for oil, so trade deals should be put in place with Europe for refined products from Canada. He also has all the timber he needs, so log exports can halt and finished lumber markets exist elsewhere. As far as American products are concerned, most American companies are having their products made in China anyway, so we can just go to the manufacturer and cut out the American middleman.
It needs to be said; Justin Trudeau has no real authority to speak for Canadians. He has less support than any prime minister in recent history. He is holding on to power against the wishes of the majority of Canadians. Kamala Harris had double the support that Trudeau has. For this reason alone, I don't think Canada should respond in any way until after an election is held. After that, all efforts should be made to find more trustworthy trading partners. Regards, Bill

+1.

from another post.

worth the reading:

https://www.reuters.com/world/...da-china-2025-02-02/

Trump says Americans could feel 'pain' in trade war with Mexico, Canada, China

Summary

US faces retaliation from Canada and Mexico
Experts warn of inflation, slower economic growth
Goldman Sachs expects tariffs to be short-lived
Investors worry about additional Trump steps

WASHINGTON, Feb 2 (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Sunday the sweeping tariffs that he has imposed on Mexico, Canada and China may cause "some pain" for Americans, as Wall Street and the largest U.S. trading partners signaled hope that the trade war would not last long.
Trump, who began his second term as president on Jan. 20, defended the tariffs that he announced on Saturday. Canada and Mexico said they were working together to face the 25% U.S. duties on imports, which promise to jolt the integrated economies of three North American countries that have had free-trade agreements for decades.
Canada and Mexico immediately vowed retaliatory measures after Trump's announcement on Saturday. China said it would challenge Trump's 10% tariffs at the World Trade Organization and take unspecified countermeasures.
Critics said that the moves against the three largest U.S. trading partners will hurt Americans by driving prices higher and slowing global growth.
Trump defended his decision on social media on Sunday.
"The USA has major deficits with Canada, Mexico, and China (and almost all countries!), owes 36 Trillion Dollars, and we’re not going to be the 'Stupid Country' any longer," the Republican president wrote.
Writing in capital letters, Trump added, "This will be the golden age of America! Will there be some pain? Yes, maybe (and maybe not!)."
Trump did not specify what he meant by "some pain."
A model gauging the economic impact of Trump's tariff plan from EY Chief Economist Greg Daco suggests it would reduce U.S. economic growth by 1.5 percentage points this year, throw Canada and Mexico into recession and usher in "stagflation" - high inflation, stagnant economic growth and elevated unemployment - at home.
Financial markets were closed over the weekend but the measures will initially be felt when U.S. stock futures trading 6 p.m. ET (2300 GMT) on Sunday. Markets were awaiting developments with anxiety, but some analysts said there had been some hope for negotiations, especially with Canada and China.
"With only two days before implementation, the tariffs look likely to take effect, though a last-minute compromise cannot be completely ruled out," Goldman Sachs economists said in a note Sunday.
They added that since the White House set very general conditions for their removal, the levies are likely to be temporary, "but the outlook is unclear."
The Trump tariffs, outlined in three executive orders, are due to take effect on at 12:01 a.m. ET (0501 GMT) on Tuesday. Trump vowed to keep them in place until what he described as a national emergency over fentanyl, a deadly opioid, and illegal immigration to the United States ends.
China left the door open for talks with the United States. Its sharpest pushback was over fentanyl.
"Fentanyl is America's problem," China's foreign ministry said, adding that China has taken extensive measures to combat the problem.
Canada's ambassador to the United States, Kirsten Hillman, on Sunday signaled hope for an agreement.
"We're hopeful that they don't come into effect on Tuesday," Hillman said on ABC's "This Week" program.
Hillman said Canadian officials are ready to keep talking to the United States but that Canadians expect that their government "stands up for itself."
Trump has sounded particularly dismissive toward Canada, with calls for the country to become the 51st U.S. state and saying it "ceases to exist as a viable country" without its "massive subsidy."
A Reuters/Ipsos poll released last week showed Americans were divided on tariffs, with 54% opposing new duties on imported goods and 43% in support, with Democrats more opposed and Republicans more supportive.
FOLLOWING THROUGH
The tariff announcement made good on Trump's repeated threat during the 2024 presidential campaign and since taking office, defying warnings from top economists that a new trade war with the top American trade partners would erode U.S. and global growth, while raising prices for consumers and companies.
Less than two weeks into his second term, Trump is upending the norms of how the United States is governed and interacts with its neighbors and wider world.
Trump declared the national emergency under laws called the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and the National Emergencies Act to back the tariffs. They give the president sweeping powers to impose sanctions to address crises.
Trade lawyers said Trump was once again testing the limits of U.S. laws, and the tariffs could face legal challenges. Democratic lawmakers Suzan DelBene and Don Beyer decried what they called a blatant abuse of executive power.
Republicans welcomed Trump's action. Industry groups and Democrats issued warnings about the impact on prices.
"Who will suffer most? American consumers - who will face skyrocketing prices on everything from groceries to gas to cars," U.S. Representative Josh Gottheimer wrote on social media.
INVESTORS LOOK AHEAD
Investors were considering the effects of additional tariffs promised by Trump, including those related to oil and gas, as well as steel, aluminum, semiconductor chips and pharmaceuticals. Trump has also vowed actions against the European Union.
"It's only a matter of time before the EU is targeted," said Marchel Alexandrovich of Saltmarch Economics in London.
The European Union said it was not aware of any additional tariffs being imposed on EU products. A European Commission spokesperson said the EU believes tariffs are harmful to all sides but "would respond firmly to any trading partner that unfairly or arbitrarily imposes tariffs on EU goods."
Europe's biggest carmaker, Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE)
, opens new tab, said it was counting on talks to avoid trade conflict.
Automakers would be particularly hard hit, with new steep tariffs on vehicles built in Canada and Mexico burdening a vast regional supply chain where parts can cross borders several times before final assembly.
HURTING AMERICANS
In a message aimed at Americans, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said U.S. citizens would be hurt by rising grocery and gasoline prices, as well as the possible shuttering of auto assembly plants and limited supplies of metals and minerals. Trudeau urged Canadians to boycott the United States and its goods.
Trudeau said on Saturday evening that Canada would respond with 25% tariffs against $155 billion of U.S. goods, including beer, wine, lumber and appliances, beginning with $30 billion taking effect on Tuesday and $125 billion 21 days later.
Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum did not provide details on planned retaliatory tariffs.
A White House fact sheet said the tariffs would stay in place "until the crisis alleviated," but gave no details on what the three countries would need to do to win a reprieve.
Trump imposed only a 10% duty on energy products from Canada after concerns raised by oil refiners and Midwestern states. At nearly $100 billion in 2023, imports of crude oil accounted for roughly a quarter of all U.S. imports from Canada, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.
The White House officials said that Canada specifically would no longer be allowed the "de minimis" U.S. duty exemption for shipments under $800. The officials said Canada, along with Mexico, has become a conduit for shipments of fentanyl and its precursor chemicals into the U.S. via small packages that are not often inspected by customs agents.

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Reporting by Jarrett Renshaw in West Palm Beach, Florida; Promit Mukherjee in Ottawa; Kevin Krolicki and Qiaoyi Li in Beijing; Andrea Shalal, David Lawder, Douglas Gillison, Doina Chiacu, Susan Heavey in Washington; Josephine Mason in London; Writing by Doina Chiacu; Editing by Scott Malone and Will Dunham

The primary supplier of aluminum to the US is Canada. I wonder if Canada could find another buyer for that material. China produces aluminum though, and China appears to be the US preferred trading partner. So, it probably doesn't matter. Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
The primary supplier of aluminum to the US is Canada. I wonder if Canada could find another buyer for that material. China produces aluminum though, and China appears to be the US preferred trading partner. So, it probably doesn't matter. Bill

canada will have to explore other buyers but aluminium is not only used by us factories. it is time canada is opening her mind and find new business all over the world.

In a way, Trump has done Canadians a great favour by giving them a reason to do what they should have done years ago. Still, our most important task, right now, is to kick the Liberals far enough down the road that they can't find their way back. That done, we can deal with any trade issues through a duly elected government with a strong base of support. Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
In a way, Trump has done Canadians a great favour by giving them a reason to do what they should have done years ago. Still, our most important task, right now, is to kick the Liberals far enough down the road that they can't find their way back. That done, we can deal with any trade issues through a duly elected government with a strong base of support. Bill

+1. big time.

At least Trump cannot put tariffs on the mallard and ringnecks that is in this home jambalaya of mine.

Thank you Canada.

. . . Wall Street seems to have serious doubts that Trump's tariffs are going to make America great again. Maybe, since Trump is shutting down everything and firing everyone, he should just issue an executive order that the stock exchanges can only go up and have to close on days the market goes down. Makes about as much sense as some of his other moves. As someone said before, elect a clown, expect a circus.

[. . . and maybe someone here can help explain to me, why does Trump use a jumbo size Marks-A-Lot to sign executive orders? Is it the whole little hands thing? Wonder if he colors with the jumbo Crayons too. Just curious.]