quote:

unvaccinated illegals

As I understand it, a vax for measles protects the child.

So, why blame immigrants, yet refuse to get your child vaccinated?

Scape goat?

The measles vax is one proven, and in fact almost eradicated the disease.

I've been thinking about this.

I remember from my youth this:

Search: did parents intentionally expose their child

Result:

Yes, some parents have intentionally exposed their children to diseases like chickenpox and measles. This practice is dangerous and can have serious consequences.

Explanation

Chickenpox parties
In the past, some parents would intentionally expose their unvaccinated children to a child with chickenpox. The belief was that getting chickenpox as a child was safer than as an adult. However, doctors say this method can lead to dangerous complications or death. The CDC strongly recommends against participating in these events.

Measles parties
Health officials warn parents not to hold "measles parties" that intentionally expose their children to measles. The California Department of Public Health says this unnecessarily puts children at risk and could contribute to further spread of the outbreak.

Intentionally exposing children to disease hurts public health efforts.

=======================================

Ignorance speaks for itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


The CDC cannot do anything for the birds. They couldn't even do anything about the rona.

Not while being kneekapped by Trump.[/QUOTE]

Oh? Why didn't they fix it before trump then? It's not like bird flu just appeared this year.

I'll wait for your answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


The CDC cannot do anything for the birds. They couldn't even do anything about the rona.

Not while being kneekapped by Trump.

Oh? Why didn't they fix it before trump then? It's not like bird flu just appeared this year.

I'll wait for your answer.

[/QUOTE]


Fun boxing that one into a corner isn’t it?

Some things can't be fixed easily, and others not at all.

But how does gutting the agency, as Trump is doing, help the situation?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:


The CDC cannot do anything for the birds. They couldn't even do anything about the rona.

Not while being kneekapped by Trump.

Oh? Why didn't they fix it before trump then? It's not like bird flu just appeared this year.

I'll wait for your answer.

[/QUOTE]

COVID had not emerged in humans prior to Trump taking office, and among his first actions was discarding the playbook for epidemic response before it emerged then constsntly downplaying and lying about the virus once it did, and contradicting the experts when they offered guidance.

Remember when it was "15 cases soon to go down to zero", a million dead Americans ago?

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some things can't be fixed easily, and others not at all.

But how does gutting the agency, as Trump is doing, help the situation?

Really? Trump's been there a month. You should be asking why in 0biden's four years, none of the diseases were 'cured'. You won't and we know that. You might have had an argument if he did just that.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some things can't be fixed easily, and others not at all.

But how does gutting the agency, as Trump is doing, help the situation?

Really? Trump's been there a month. You should be asking why in 0biden's four years, none of the diseases were 'cured'. You won't and we know that. You might have had an argument if he did just that.

Yes Ann!

Trump could burn a 100 churches, murder 1000 children, and you will still find ex for the stupid MAGA ARSEHOLE!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Some things can't be fixed easily, and others not at all.

But how does gutting the agency, as Trump is doing, help the situation?

Really? Trump's been there a month. You should be asking why in 0biden's four years, none of the diseases were 'cured'. You won't and we know that. You might have had an argument if he did just that.

Yes Ann!

Trump could burn a 100 churches, murder 1000 children, and you will still find ex for the stupid MAGA ARSEHOLE!

Who has he burned? Murdered children? Like the 338,000 children that went missing under 0biden?

Give him time.

He has already fired thousands of government employees!

For NOT voting for him!

So euthanizing the entire barn is cheaper than breeding survivors? Maybe for 1 infection. This is wave after wave after wave. Brain dead. Rest assured these producers and their suppliers are losing their ass. I’m well aware of the structure of commercial chicken and egg production. Ohioan here. The heart of it all. Pun intended.

The easiest and quickest way to cut illegal immigration in half would be to arrest, prosecute and jail, with long sentences, the CEOs and COOs of companies who profit off their cheap labor. Put 200 in prison for a decade and you'll cut it in half, put 500 there and you wouldn't be able to chase anybody over the border with dogs.

When was the last time you heard of an illegal employer going to prison?

I 100% agree with you on this.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
The easiest and quickest way to cut illegal immigration in half would be to arrest, prosecute and jail, with long sentences, the CEOs and COOs of companies who profit off their cheap labor. Put 200 in prison for a decade and you'll cut it in half, put 500 there and you wouldn't be able to chase anybody over the border with dogs.

When was the last time you heard of an illegal employer going to prison?

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
When it’s detected the entire barn is euthanized. Chickens are quick breeders. Seems a no brainer to NOT euthanize the whole population, find and breed the survivors. Head scratcher for sure.

Unfortunately, the masters of 'follow the science' feds aren't known for common sense and are thus not participating.

Nothing says common sense like firing the scientist working on the problem.....

Not to Ann, she probably has an RFK brain worm these days.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
First death reported in the West Texas measles outbreak.

Likely not the last.

If only there were some proven safe and effective way to prevent measles, but alas...

I think back on my childhood, before we had measle vaccines, and think of all my friends who died; except they didn't. I don't know what went wrong but we all lived. The amazing thing with these modern measles is that, although the entire student body may be vaccinated, they are threatened by a kid who is not. Of course, we saw the same thing with covid.
I saw a news report which said egg smuggling was a becoming a serious problem. Egg confiscations at the US border are up by 40%. Coincidentally, border guards are looking especially well fed.
Next time I cross the border, I'm just going to show the guard a picture of my bacon and egg breakfast. Regards, Bill.

Wymple [/QUOTE]
I could care less about political affiliation. Anti-vaxxers can go straight to hell. They are 99% of the problem.[/QUOTE]

Nothing is more entertaining than a moron attempting to justify his existence.

Don't be obtuse.

Yes, measles had a low rate of death when contratced in childhood... but it also had a sizable morbidity to it.

A friend's dad had encephalitis as a child from IIRC measles. He ended up having some significant issues such as epilepsy from that, along with some other chronic health issues.

Mumps is well known to cause sterility in a portion of the people who get it.

Both diseases are highly deadly if contracted later in adulthood.

Now, these are the classic childhood vaccines (along with polio) and are significantly self protective.

ME's comment about childhood chicken pox and measles parties were things that happened in the past when we knew about the likelihood of children surviving the infection with minimal issue, but higher morbidity and mortality as they got older. It was a pre-scientific form of "attenuated" vaccination.

Now we have the vaccines for those diseases that are both safe and effective, so why risk it?

The bigger issue is the newer vaccines for diseases that are more intended as attempts to reduce morbidity (but not overall infection) and the attempt to get people to get them to protect the rest of the population. The flu shot doesn't necessarily stop you from getting the flu, it reduces severity; and its only good for certain flu types that you may or may not get exposed to.

Good medicine is to tell folks of their risk, the benefit of the vaccine, the risks of the vaccine (there are no vaccines with no risks) and let a responsible parent or person make a decision for themself or their kid without external coercion.

As an example, the MMR vaccine is relatively safe with relatively low complications (well less than the diseases involved) with a high likelihood of spreading throughout a vulnerable population and quite likely killing some family members if they had not been vaccinated.

Compare that to the Covid vaccine.

We have some evidence it is effective in reducing morbidity (but not stopping infection). There is little research available documenting its safety, but the government agencies responsible for its approval and the manufacturers assure us it is safe (so take that on a matter of trust). It is only effective against a certain subset of the virus, and that virus is extremely rapidly changing, so the vaccine needs updating frequently or else it is ineffective.

As a physician, I give you the information and let you make up your mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
First death reported in the West Texas measles outbreak.

Likely not the last.

If only there were some proven safe and effective way to prevent measles, but alas...

I think back on my childhood, before we had measle vaccines, and think of all my friends who died; except they didn't. I don't know what went wrong but we all lived. The amazing thing with these modern measles is that, although the entire student body may be vaccinated, they are threatened by a kid who is not. Of course, we saw the same thing with covid.
I saw a news report which said egg smuggling was a becoming a serious problem. Egg confiscations at the US border are up by 40%. Coincidentally, border guards are looking especially well fed.
Next time I cross the border, I'm just going to show the guard a picture of my bacon and egg breakfast. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
So euthanizing the entire barn is cheaper than breeding survivors? Maybe for 1 infection. This is wave after wave after wave. Brain dead. Rest assured these producers and their suppliers are losing their ass. I’m well aware of the structure of commercial chicken and egg production. Ohioan here. The heart of it all. Pun intended.

This is the irony of it all.

Flocks should have been quarantined and survivors allowed to produce. Ordered euthanasia of hen flocks while wild birds are already the reservoir and vectors is/was ludicrous.

So why were they euthanized??? Executive branch officials orders. Whose executive branch? Jobama’s. Sounds like a few obtuse government agency employees need/needed firing to me — for cause.

Biosecurity definitely needs to be secured. That's clearly not happening.

Keep in mind most of the brown shell commercial egg layers are composites between two other breeds. Might also be for white shell layers.

This is done for sex linked chicks at hatching. The male and female chicks have different down color. All of the males are sent to a meat grinder as soon as they hatch to be ground alive. Pullet chicks are set aside to be raised. So, what does this mean? For selecting breeding birds out of a barn of composite birds that survives AI- will not produce true, it's same lineage. So there are problems. Sure, hatcheries can hire people skilled with sexing chicks but they are not 100% correct like sex link down patterns are. Plus, the genetics they use are used for a reason. Production ability.

Similarly for meat chickens/broilers. Genetics are very important.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Biosecurity definitely needs to be secured. That's clearly not happening.

Keep in mind most of the brown shell commercial egg layers are composites between two other breeds. Might also be for white shell layers.

This is done for sex linked chicks at hatching. The male and female chicks have different down color. All of the males are sent to a meat grinder as soon as they hatch to be ground alive. Pullet chicks are set aside to be raised. So, what does this mean? For selecting breeding birds out of a barn of composite birds that survives AI- will not produce true, it's same lineage. So there are problems. Sure, hatcheries can hire people skilled with sexing chicks but they are not 100% correct like sex link down patterns are. Plus, the genetics they use are used for a reason. Production ability.

Similarly for meat chickens/broilers. Genetics are very important.

sorry but i do not know where you get that brown shells are coming from composite of 2 species ...

it is depending of the breed at least where i was raised on a farm in europe and we had even a local breed that had blue spots eggs ...

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
Wymple

I could care less about political affiliation. Anti-vaxxers can go straight to hell. They are 99% of the problem.[/QUOTE]

Nothing is more entertaining than a moron attempting to justify his existence.[/QUOTE]

I am not wrong. Unvaxxed people are that way by their or their parents choice. Vaccinate & this shit is gone. You call that stupid, look in the mirror. Firing people who are working on these problems is stupid. When you get a stage 4 cancer, make sure you don't want the latest meds, you don't think the science was worth the cost. RFK's brainworms have become contagious.

Someone look up the total value of egg production in the USA, then tell me that someone (some group) is not seriously working on better ways to address the problem of the bird flu. Hint, somewhere around 17-18 billion usd, not to mention the world egg production value, lest we forget we are not the only place in the world that eats eggs or the only place vulnerable to the bird flu. And one more thing, killing flocks has been going on long before "Jobama"



Genetically selecting chickens to be virus immune might be possible, but by the time you got there through natural breeding the virus will have moved on to a new form. Possibly it could be done in the lab with the DNA, but then they are GMO chickens and even if that worked, we all know what a buga boo that is, as well as we don't know the unintended consequences.

As a side note, if you like bananas, they will all be GMO in the near future, But I don't think vertebrae's will get there anytime too soon.

quote:

Originally posted by medved:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Biosecurity definitely needs to be secured. That's clearly not happening.

Keep in mind most of the brown shell commercial egg layers are composites between two other breeds. Might also be for white shell layers.

This is done for sex linked chicks at hatching. The male and female chicks have different down color. All of the males are sent to a meat grinder as soon as they hatch to be ground alive. Pullet chicks are set aside to be raised. So, what does this mean? For selecting breeding birds out of a barn of composite birds that survives AI- will not produce true, it's same lineage. So there are problems. Sure, hatcheries can hire people skilled with sexing chicks but they are not 100% correct like sex link down patterns are. Plus, the genetics they use are used for a reason. Production ability.

Similarly for meat chickens/broilers. Genetics are very important.

sorry but i do not know where you get that brown shells are coming from composite of 2 species ...

it is depending of the breed at least where i was raised on a farm in europe and we had even a local breed that had blue spots eggs ...

Medved, I explained that with the sexlinked chicks. Usually a bird containing a silver gene is mated to a red/brown breed to get the chick down pattern. These can be something like a leghorn X Rhode Island red. Go look at any commercial hatchery site that offers chicks for sale. Look up red sexlinks. There are black colored hens as well. It's a matter of crossbreeding birds with the genetics to produce sexlinks. I do not know all of the combinations and with commercial producers much of this is a trade secret. Same goes with broiler chicken production.

There are numerous shell colors produced by chickens. My breed lays blue eggs. There are specific genetics behind that which is very different from brown egg shell layers. Crossing a brown shell layer with a white shell layer produces brown tinted shells due to genetic traits expressed. Crossing a blue shell layer with a brown shell layer produces what is called olive eggers. Lots of variation out there.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Originally posted by rcraig:
Wymple

I could care less about political affiliation. Anti-vaxxers can go straight to hell. They are 99% of the problem.

Nothing is more entertaining than a moron attempting to justify his existence.[/QUOTE]

I am not wrong. Unvaxxed people are that way by their or their parents choice. Vaccinate & this shit is gone. You call that stupid, look in the mirror. Firing people who are working on these problems is stupid. When you get a stage 4 cancer, make sure you don't want the latest meds, you don't think the science was worth the cost. RFK's brainworms have become contagious.[/QUOTE]

Here is a simpler explanation: The reason flu vaxx are not 100% is because the virus can replicate and change the way it looks to the immune system. It's also why there is no vaxx for the common cold. It's why the rona vaxx was not effective. Bird flu will be no different. Create a vaxx and the virus will still 'change' and it will never go away.

Commercial producers need to up their biosecurity. This will be the most effective way to combat bird flu.

anti vax is a liberal thing, close enough
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/previ...mwrhtml/mm6406a5.htm

except for when forcing people, under threat of law and losing job, have the conservatives "Resisted"

today's break? illegal - 15+ million unvaxed illegals allowed to walk right in

the quote of " moron attempting to justify his existence." and YOU quoting it is a self-writing joke

It use to be know it is just a far both thing.

Denver when Trump was booed at one of his rallies for suggesting the vaccine was good.

Remember it is a GOP president who has appointed a msn who publicly attacked vaccines.

Total biosecurity with avian influenza is next to impossible.

And, there are influenza A(H5N1) vaccines. They have been made for decades. They are effective in reducing morbidity but transmission will still occur. Euthanasia of layer flocks with bird flu is ridiculous. Survivors will go back to laying. Mortality is less than 50%. And, wild birds are the reservoir and vectors.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
And, there are influenza A(H5N1) vaccines. They have been made for decades. They are effective in reducing morbidity but transmission will still occur. Euthanasia of layer flocks with bird flu is ridiculous. Survivors will go back to laying. Mortality is less than 50%. And, wild birds are the reservoir and vectors.

Commercial operators will not want to care for the birds and give them time to get back to health. They don't keep any of them past a year, sometimes 18 months. Only to just before their first molt. That's because molt takes up to three months. Again, too much down time. No money being made then but you still have to feed them.

Sure, it's possible to breed in stronger genetics but it won't happen at the egg producer end. Also, as I mentioned, most of these are crossbred birds with only one generation of desired traits. The layers in the chicken house are of no value as soon as they stop producing to molt other than pet food or campbell's crappy soups.