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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by theback40:
I have Aussie friends with big cattle and/or sheep stations. They have dozens of dogs to help work. They are treated very well, and given plenty of attention and praise. But, they admit, sometimes one goes rouge for reasons unknown and will kill. They are put down. Has to be done, nobody likes it though.

This is the reality that the la la land voter likes to pretend does not exist.

LaLa land your ass. The story reeks of irresponsibility and pathetic behavior. This line of "that is how it works in the country" is utter BS. Responsible dog people take the time to train their animals and set them up for success. We sure did not hear any of that in the Noem story.

The truth is that you don’t really know what played out.

She was dumb (politically) for mentioning it. When I was a kid this would not even be a news story. But today la la land rules. I have heard it presented as the “social contract” in a board meeting I sat in last week. Needless to say I rolled my eyes at that label…la la land is the better descriptor.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by theback40:
I have Aussie friends with big cattle and/or sheep stations. They have dozens of dogs to help work. They are treated very well, and given plenty of attention and praise. But, they admit, sometimes one goes rouge for reasons unknown and will kill. They are put down. Has to be done, nobody likes it though.

This is the reality that the la la land voter likes to pretend does not exist.

LaLa land your ass. The story reeks of irresponsibility and pathetic behavior. This line of "that is how it works in the country" is utter BS. Responsible dog people take the time to train their animals and set them up for success. We sure did not hear any of that in the Noem story.

The truth is that you don’t really know what played out.

She was dumb (politically) for mentioning it. When I was a kid this would not even be a news story. But today la la land rules. I have heard it presented as the “social contract” in a board meeting I sat in last week. Needless to say I rolled my eyes at that label…la la land is the better descriptor.

I can confirm TB 40S post.
Like Aussie, we use alot of dog power on our farms and stations. They are not pets. they are professional tools. Its a fallacy to think you can train every puppy to do such a job well. You dont want them to fail or be no good, and so minimise the risk. Selective breeding and genetics that select for work drive and intelligence are big factors. But some pups just dont cut it and they are not really dogs you wish to rehome to the urban population. Because that work drive can become a prey drive very fast and by and large, Urban people do not understand how vitally important it is to have a dog under control all the time. Its fine to let a dog run free in an urban environment, But when they go rural for a weekend and the dog gets let loose around a mob of sheep..... There are not many working dogs that are pets.

So at the point a young dog develops a level of unatrainability or other flaw. It might be over aggression to other dogs, gives up to easily, runs home, attacking stock too harshly. It gets put down. Because we dont want other people dealing with those flaws and we need to move on and find a dog that will be able to do the job.

And it still sucks everytime you have to destroy one, doesnt it Shanks.
You have to follow the ancestry. When a canine did not toe the line, the pack would bowl it over and it would be grabbed by the throat. If they stepped out of line once to often, the alpha would begin, and the pack would destroy the member.
I remember Kabob telling of one of his strays. It bit him at feeding time.
He then fed the dogs differently. He thinks he was smart and solved the problem.
That dog trained him. Part of that dogs brain, knows Kabob is not the alpha.
There is a very precise order dogs need for their own best interest. Some may never give in to it, and is a potential problem lurking.
Every vet and pro trainer has told me the same thing, you have to work with the wiring that makes up the animal.
Chimps and elephants are much smarter than dogs. Yet they can have an off day after 20 years of handling, and kill their trainers. They still have that in them, surppressed.

Yep it does.

Yeah the instant I hear a dog owner say. "My dog would never." I recognise a bad dog owner.

If someone working for us has a dog and we are not happy with how its being supervised, or trained, or behaviour it shows, we take steps along the employment scale. Verbal communication moving towards written formal notice if the issue is not fixed. Its that serious and an out of control dog can have serious workplace and farm business consequences.
We have pets and hunting dogs and workdogs. Not one gets let off unsupervised. They sit and wait till we tell them they can eat. Is all part of making sure they know who is the boss. A dog growls at me and it gets grabbed by the throat, tipped upside down And I will sit on it until it stops struggling. If it continues that behaviour it will not be alive long. We have children on the farm.

A dog should not be allowed to kill anything unless given the OK. I had a dog that loved to hunt woodchucks. She was only allowed if it was digging holes in the fields. Chucks in the hedgerows were left for natural predators. I would point out the ones it was OK to go after. Or, if she saw one she would get excited and "ask" by looking at me, then the direction the chuck was in. A proper trained dog is a joy, one that isnt is trouble waiting to happen.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by ronco:

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Originally posted by theback40:
I have shot dogs chasing my livestock multiple times. This after, giving the owners warning to keep their pets to home. Deer chasing dogs are shot by anyone seeing them. Bear and coon hunters shoot their very expensive dogs, who dont stay on the animal they are trained for.
Sure, some people get their feelings hurt over it, but it is all part of rural life for us.

Well said, some people don't get it.

+1

I raised working Labradors for years. Several Hunting Retriever Champions several Master Hunters. There are some dogs that are not trainable.....I put them down instead of foisting them off on others, our expecting others to do what was my responsibility....

City folks.....

.

Seems that those of us who have a lot to do with dogs that are expected to do a job, have a very similar opinion.

Note- the old dogs that have been great and done thier work get a place by the fire to see out thier days. Its not that we dont love our dogs. Its just we know enough too not accept the bad ones.

I have had working dogs for close to three decades, two in the house now. Bird dogs are not cattle dogs, they require training. Every aspect of the Noem story speaks to her failure to train or control that dog. Why was it not on a leash or in a crate? Why would you take a pointing dog into a field of Pheasants unless you were sure that is is staunch and obeys commands? These are owner/handler failures, not failures of a 14 month old dog. Sure, some dogs don't make the grade, I believe they should at least be given the chance. Where is the part of the Noem story where spent hours working with this dog? We hear hear she hated the dog and she failed to control it. Sounds like a character flaw in Mrs.Noem to me.

Dont get me wrong. Much that I hear about how she behaved with that pup makes me beleive she probably shouldn't own dogs. The first and biggest indicator that theres a problem is that she talked about it in a look at me manor. Its not something you go tell people the details of. If it ever needs doing its something private and sad.

Yup, not something that needs to go in a book.

Just because a dog doesn’t make a good hunter doesn’t mean it wouldn’t make a good family pet... 20 years ago I bought a so called pointing lab pup from a breeder who specialized in them. Dog was great until about 1 year of age, then weirdly lost all interest in hunting. I quit training him and he became one of the best pets you could want.

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Bird dogs are not cattle dogs, they require training.

And so cow dogs. Never seen a useful dog that didn’t require training.

Her mistake was talking about it.

Nah, her mistake was not being in control of her animal and failing to train it.

Total failure as a dog owner.

Well, that and whatever the hell she did to her face. Bit by a rattlesnake? Auditioning for the chipmunks? Looks like hell that much is for sure. Shame too, she was not bad looking before the changes.

Steve,
You didn’t write the rules on owning/training a dog…even though you believe you did.

I will bet dollars to donuts I have trained more dogs to do more things in more walks of life than you. You’re entitled to your opinion but that is just it — your opinion.

PS: Do you ever have anything good to say about someone? Or, do you sling personal attacks on everyone you see?

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Originally posted by ledvm:
Steve,
You didn’t write the rules on owning/training a dog…even though you believe you did.

I will bet dollars to donuts I have trained more dogs to do more things in more walks of life than you. You’re entitled to your opinion but that is just it — your opinion.

PS: Do you ever have anything good to say about someone? Or, do you sling personal attacks on everyone you see?

Lane,
I never said I wrote the rules. The woman tells a story of shooting an untrained dog, she does not take responsibility for her own actions. The dog should have been either crated or on a leash if it was not under voice control, obvious to any dog owner/handler. Additionally she makes no mention of training the dog, being sure it is steady before introducing it to Pheasants(fairly dumb I would say, considering sharptails are a far better bird to introduce your pointer too and there are heaps of them in SD). These are failures of a handler, not the dog.

I did say something nice about Noem, I said she looked good before she started altering her appearance.

I didn't feel it was an attack as much as an observation.

I'm trying to recall the last time you said something nice about a Democrat but am struggling, can you help me out there Lane?

You may recall, just last week I commented that Larry Hogan(GOP) will make a fine Senator. I have good things to say about good people, not much good to say about the MAGA crowd though.

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I'm trying to recall the last time you said something nice about a Democrat but am struggling, can you help me out there Lane?

I pray for their souls.

Just as I thought, still the hypocrite I knew you were.

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I never said I wrote the rules. The woman tells a story of shooting an untrained dog, she does not take responsibility for her own actions. The dog should have been either crated or on a leash if it was not under voice control, obvious to any dog owner/handler. Additionally she makes no mention of training the dog, being sure it is steady before introducing it to Pheasants(fairly dumb I would say, considering sharptails are a far better bird to introduce your pointer too and there are heaps of them in SD). These are failures of a handler, not the dog.

More rules Steve? You weren’t there…I wasn’t there.

She was dumb for putting it in a book.

Would be happy to live in SD with her as my Gov.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Just as I thought, still the hypocrite I knew you were.

Not rules Lane, common sense any dog owner should understand. Control your animal....the very basics.

The dog escaped the truck per her story, that is her fault, not the dogs. It should have been leashed or crated...common sense.

Same goes for how you introduce your bird dog to birds...use some common sense which noem appears to be void of.

I have a house in SD, it is a great place, even with Noem as the Gov.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Just as I thought, still the hypocrite I knew you were.

At least you are consistent and predictable

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Not rules Lane, common sense any dog owner should understand. Control your animal....the very basics.

The dog escaped the truck per her story, that is her fault, not the dogs. It should have been leashed or crated...common sense.

Same goes for how you introduce your bird dog to birds...use some common sense which noem appears to be void of.

I have a house in SD, it is a great place, even with Noem as the Gov.

Yes Steve you are dictating the “rules” — again. But just as I expected from you.

No, not rules but the basics and common sense. You train a dog before turning it loose or chaos often ensues.

I would have thought a Veterinarian might have figured that out, but then I am debating you Lane....

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
No, not rules but the basics and common sense. You train a dog before turning it loose or chaos often ensues.

I would have thought a Veterinarian might have figured that out, but then I am debating you Lane....

That is just it…I do know.

Have you ever been mistaken?

I thought you had said neither of us knew because we were not there. Your story seems to be shifting.

It was her responsibility to restrain the dog, pure and simple.

What I know is that the only thing that defines right and wrong in your mind is party affiliation. Noem can do no wrong, she is part of MAGA world...that is all that matters to you.

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Have you ever been mistaken?

I thought you had said neither of us knew because we were not there. Your story seems to be shifting.

It was her responsibility to restrain the dog, pure and simple.

I am the one giving her the benefit of doubt.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Have you ever been mistaken?

I thought you had said neither of us knew because we were not there. Your story seems to be shifting.

It was her responsibility to restrain the dog, pure and simple.

I am the one giving her the benefit of doubt.

No, you are making excuses for piss poor behavior.

So which is it...you know or you don't know? You seem conflicted

More rules according to Steve.

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So which is it...you know or you don't know? You seem conflicted

I know what it takes to train a working dog…in multiple walks of life.

I know there are multiple ways to get there.

I know that neither of us were there for this whole story.

I know there are some dogs/horses that are less trainable than others.

I know that I am not going to condemn Noem on media hype.

I know she was stupid for writing about this event.

I know that you should train your dog and have control of it before turning it loose.

I am not condemning Noem on media hype, she did that with her own words.

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Originally posted by ledvm:

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So which is it...you know or you don't know? You seem conflicted

I know what it takes to train a working dog…in multiple walks of life. It appears that training never occurred, or Noem was REALLY bad at it. Sounds like she could use your guidance.

I know there are multiple ways to get there. a lack of training and a bullet to the head does not usually end in the desired result of a trained bird dog.

I know that neither of us were there for this whole story. True enough, but if we take her at her word she is a sad excuse for a dog owner.

I know there are some dogs/horses that are less trainable than others. True, it makes me wonder why she did not expound upon the training the dog received...or didn't as case may be.

I know that I am not going to condemn Noem on media hype. It was her words that sunk her, not the media.

I know she was stupid for writing about this event.

Stupid for sure....

30 years ago…you couldn’t have paid a newspaper to print this story.

Nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Media and a liberal mindset much.

Noem was dumb enough to put it in her book. She was trying to use the media to promote her political rise. Enter the sphere of modern media and you had better have a grasp of the fallout, Noem did not. Hard for me to have much mercy for her, she did this to herself.

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Originally posted by ledvm:
30 years ago…you couldn’t have paid a newspaper to print this story.

Nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Media and a liberal mindset much.

This would have been covered and needs covered.

She was doing a media blitz to raise her political recognition, raise money, and declare her political ability.

She went to the media.

This is not targeted investigative journalism.

I will take her at her words both in the book and live statements. She removed doubt.

Yiu just want to excuse her behavior.

While opinions on the puppy killing incident might vary . . . there should be no disagreement that lying about meeting Kim Jung-un is wrong. But I have grown so accustomed to Lane spinning Trump's lies, I look forward to the spin put on this one. Maybe she just had a brain fart and forgot that she never met with the dictator leader of North Korea.

You have to really appreciate the humor though. Someone not only writes the stories in a book but then reads them in her own words on a audiobook. That's rich.

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Originally posted by MJines:
While opinions on the puppy killing incident might vary . . . there should be no disagreement that lying about meeting Kim Jung-un is wrong. But I have grown so accustomed to Lane spinning Trump's lies, I look forward to the spin put on this one. Maybe she just had a brain fart and forgot that she never met with the dictator leader of North Korea.

You have to really appreciate the humor though. Someone not only writes the stories in a book but then reads them in her own words on a audiobook. That's rich.

HTF could anyone forget meeeting Kim Jong?

“I remember when I met with the North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un,” she writes. “I’m sure he underestimated me, having no clue about my experience staring down little tyrants (I’d been a children’s pastor after all).”

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Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
Noem was dumb enough to put it in her book. She was trying to use the media to promote her political rise. Enter the sphere of modern media and you had better have a grasp of the fallout, Noem did not. Hard for me to have much mercy for her, she did this to herself.

I can’t really argue with that.

I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt about event.

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Originally posted by LHeym500:

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Originally posted by ledvm:
30 years ago…you couldn’t have paid a newspaper to print this story.

Nobody would have even thought twice about it.

Media and a liberal mindset much.

This would have been covered and needs covered.

She was doing a media blitz to raise her political recognition, raise money, and declare her political ability.

She went to the media.

This is not targeted investigative journalism.

I will take her at her words both in the book and live statements. She removed doubt.

Yiu just want to excuse her behavior.

If you believe the first line you wrote…your stupidity is showing through. “I” paid close attention to the news 30 years ago — you???