quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Two thoughts:

1. “Turning the other cheek” after Pearl Harbor may have had some undesirable consequences;

Agreed. And why reference to the Old Testament is necessary.

2. Are the writings attributed to Jesus the only ones the promote certain actions? I think that there are a plethora of similar views promulgated.

Agreed. And hence the reason I didn’t try to make that case.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I'm not so sure I agree with #4.

As I have been stating in the thread on nationalism, it can take many forms. The division is not a lack of nationalism, but rather a divergence of opinion amongst the citizens of what our goals as a nation should be.

As an example, open borders and wholesale immigration is not necessarily against American nationalism,

Hmm…I would have said that it was. It certainly was through much of history.

although a lack of control over the border certainly is.

quote:

3) The Greatest Generation, who stamped out Naziism, was very nationalistic as well as strongly Christian.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

3) The Greatest Generation, who stamped out Naziism, was very nationalistic as well as strongly Christian.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of your entire post, brother; my only revision would be to amend the statement above to read, "...as well as adherent to Judeo-Christian values."

In my opinion, people of many different faiths can occupy the same nation and adhere to the common values, regardless of how they worship; attaching any label to those values is problematic, due to the exclusionary nature of the label.

Having said that, your fundamental points are rock solid.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
1. The Gospels were written by Jesus' fans and followers. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they may have only quoted the wise things he said, and omitted the rest.

If he swore like a drunken sailor, none of those words would have made it into the New Testament.

2. Yeah--to some degree. See "patriotic."

3. Substitute "patriotic" for "nationalistic." We've covered the difference. The two terms have similarities in meaning, but aren't identical.

All the men of the Lost Battalion were way more than patriotic as were most of the Greatest Generation — they were nationalists to the core.

Strike "Christian." Our participation in WWII was not a religious crusade. You don't see Jesus' picture on old WWII posters, do you?

I am not saying we were on a Crusade…just a large majority of them were strong (by today’s standards) Christians.

4. You're painting with a broad brush. There are other causes of strife in the US than the difference between patriotism and nationalism.

True…but loyalty and devotion to country always brought us together in times of strife in the past.

quote:

It was a different time.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:

quote:

3) The Greatest Generation, who stamped out Naziism, was very nationalistic as well as strongly Christian.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of your entire post, brother; my only revision would be to amend the statement above to read, "...as well as adherent to Judeo-Christian values."

In my opinion, people of many different faiths can occupy the same nation and adhere to the common values, regardless of how they worship; attaching any label to those values is problematic, due to the exclusionary nature of the label.

Having said that, your fundamental points are rock solid.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

It was a different time.

100% The Greatest Generation => don’t f*** with America.

They were a very nationalistic generation.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

It was a different time.

100% The Greatest Generation => don’t f*** with America.

They were a very nationalistic generation.

They had an opponent which coalesced the nation.

Almost ALL Americans at the time were nationalistic…making them “coalescable” (I know not a word but it makes the point). The nationalistic spirit also made it easy for them to agree on the enemy…something we lack today.

The right, especially Christian Nationalists have fabricated an opponent, dividing fellow Americans.

No it is the dividends that allow division to take place. IE: “YOU” choose to be divided from others. If you didn’t choose that…there would be no division. The left not only chooses division…they crave it.

It's not the same thing.

The Nationalistic Americans didn’t change…they are the same as always. It is the anti nationalistic American that has emerged that is different.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
BS

I looked up the definition of the word "radicalism":

https://www.google.com/search?...gAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

The definitions vary a little, but nowhere did I see the term defined by disagreement in one another.

Also, let's just say that radicalization is one of the normals in the USA, always has been. That's not to say it is the dominate normal or mainstream. Radicals want their worldview to be the new and dominate "normal", mainstream, by any means. And they claim everyone else is the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
I don't see the problem.

I think radical can be easily identified.

The term MAY be confused with nutz case, but that too can be clarified.

Just because someone makes a claim doesn't make it so.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here's an opinion article from Fox News:

(Emotional appeal?)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4437ddc736151b15cc1a

America 'unrecognizable' and on the brink of collapse, experts warn: 'Turning on our own legacy'
Opinion by Taylor Penley • 5h ago

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Two thoughts:

1. “Turning the other cheek” after Pearl Harbor may have had some undesirable consequences;

Agreed. And why reference to the Old Testament is necessary.

2. Are the writings attributed to Jesus the only ones the promote certain actions? I think that there are a plethora of similar views promulgated.

Agreed. And hence the reason I didn’t try to make that case.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Two thoughts:

1. “Turning the other cheek” after Pearl Harbor may have had some undesirable consequences;

Agreed. And why reference to the Old Testament is necessary.

2. Are the writings attributed to Jesus the only ones the promote certain actions? I think that there are a plethora of similar views promulgated.

Agreed. And hence the reason I didn’t try to make that case.

God was a different fellow in the old testament, a lot of smiting of women and children in there, even what we would term genocide.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here is something I posted in another thread, but it got buried with a silly argument.

It seems to me this is a good example of what Fox News does, appeal to emotionalism. Notice there is not one single fact or evidence presented in support of the premise. It's just an opinion supported by emotional type images.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Here's an opinion article from Fox News:

(Emotional appeal?)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4437ddc736151b15cc1a

America 'unrecognizable' and on the brink of collapse, experts warn: 'Turning on our own legacy'
Opinion by Taylor Penley • 5h ago

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
And here's something else:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4c5284cecb1ddc42dd1f

Large numbers of Americans want a strong, rough, anti-democratic leader
Story by Tarah Williams, Assistant Professor of Pol

================================================

Notice the difference in this and the Fox News article. This one is supported.

quote:

Originally posted by BushPeter:
I think Germany in the 1930's became increasingly nationalistic as well, which aided the nazism. The whole world was against them, and hurting them, due to WWI and the consequences of that for Germany.
Nationalism isn't bad, but like many other things, extreme versions of it are. Just like extreme left, extreme right, extreme religious beliefs.