quote:

Biden wandered the halls while America digested the wads of cash from corona handouts. We spent a bunch of money, paid a little taxes and ballooned the debt.

True story.

Trump's tariffs instead income tax plan will just make our debt worse and push the burden of funding our government onto those who can least afford it.

That would certainly not be an improvement.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Milley

It's mentioned here that General Milley received 4 bronze stars.

It's appalling to me anyone would consider questioning his word or integrity.

I personally don’t care for the man as a leader. It is not so much that I question his integrity…it is his scope and vision that I question.

quote:

Milley said. “We don’t take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution, and we take an oath to the idea that is America, and we’re willing to die to protect it.”

This is where I differ fron Milley and Democrats in general. They lost the plot on “the idea that is America.” And if we don’t get back on the correct path…visitors will be wondering our streets in a hundred years with the same thoughts I have when driving about Harare.

The Orange Turd is no leader and is completely devoid of character, no need for questioning, it is simply does not exist inside that POS.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Milley

It's mentioned here that General Milley received 4 bronze stars.

It's appalling to me anyone would consider questioning his word or integrity.

I personally don’t care for the man as a leader. It is not so much that I question his integrity…it is his scope and vision that I question.

quote:

Milley said. “We don’t take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution, and we take an oath to the idea that is America, and we’re willing to die to protect it.”

This is where I differ fron Milley and Democrats in general. They lost the plot on “the idea that is America.” And if we don’t get back on the correct path…visitors will be wondering our streets in a hundred years with the same thoughts I have when driving about Harare.

=============================================================

Milley said - see quote above. Milley also said "Trump is 'fascist to the core'". That is the main thesis of the OP.

You said:

"don't care for the man as a leader"

"it is his scope and vision that I question"

"I differ fron Milley and Democrats in general"

"They lost the plot on 'the idea that is America'.”

"if we don’t get back on the correct path"

=============================================

First - you have not correctly recognized what his "scope and vision" really is. He said it in a few concise words. We don't know the extent of his vision re America, but we know one aspect is, and that's a "fascist to the core" has no place in the present or future scenario.

The Founding "Plot" never was nor includes fascist ideas and means. That's what you are advocating, and that's what he's rejecting. You want to return to some mythical yesteryear culture/society fantasy and promote a means to that end that's not acceptable to Milley and most people when they recognize what it really is that you want and the means you approve in getting there, wherever "there" is.

Concisely, Milley is rejecting Trump specifically as a means in an "End Justifies the Means" scheme, and you are justifying the means to achieve a mythical/imagined end - actually defying reality.

IOW, it is YOU who has lost the "Plot" within "the IDEA that America is" along with all MAGA and Trumpism.

Milley didn't reject your fantasy vision of America. Instead, he rejected your means. As a practical matter, that's about all that Democrats are doing, mostly. Yet you hate them for it.

Give us a Romney or McCain or Pence, and be nice.

IOW, if it takes a Trump as an agent, a means to an end, then the end ain't worth the cost specifically relating to the principles of the Idea America is. That's what really describes the "Wrong Direction".

I have an explanation for why Trump says much of the fascist trash he spouts.

It gains support for him. His supporters like it. The End Justifies the Means.

Here's just one recent example:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...67c2e34899e8a3&ei=20

Trump floats sending military after US citizens on election day citing ‘radical left lunatics’ and ‘the enemy from within’
Story by John Bowden • 21h • 3 min read

(excerpt)

But Trump took things a step further, denying Bartiromo’s suggestion that those groups would be the “real” problem on Election Day.

That honor, he said, went to the so-called “enemy within.”

“I don’t think [immigrants] are the problem in terms of election day,” Trump told Bartiromo. “I think the bigger problem are the people from within, we have some very bad people, sick people, radical left lunatics.”

At that point, he suggested a seemingly sinister solution.

“And it should be easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard, or if really necessary, by the military,” he said.

“I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. Not even the people who have come in, who are destroying our country.”

It isn’t clear under what circumstances Trump would view it justifiable to call in US troops against his own countrymen.

But his comments mark a baseless attack and a particularly hollow one coming from someone whose supporters violently attacked the US Capitol in an attempt to stop him from being thrown out of office three years ago.

It is perhaps unsurprising, though.

I started this video at 9:19 because of the specific point made, which is what I'm saying as well, which is that fascist means are being used by Trump and other GOPers and justified:

Brooks and Capehart on PBS NewsHour 2 days ago

Capehart: https://youtu.be/5nkRSst_SFE?s...vFZMPcce7TchEh&t=559

Here's the article mentioned:

https://www.theatlantic.com/te...l&utm_campaign=share

I’m Running Out of Ways to Explain How Bad This Is. What’s happening in America today is something darker than a misinformation crisis. It's a cultural assault on the institutions and individuals who operate in reality

By Charlie Warzel Updated at 9:43 a.m. ET on October 11, 2024

(excerpt)

The truth is, it’s getting harder to describe the extent to which a meaningful percentage of Americans have dissociated from reality. As Hurricane Milton churned across the Gulf of Mexico last night, I saw an onslaught of outright conspiracy theorizing and utter nonsense racking up millions of views across the internet. The posts would be laughable if they weren’t taken by many people as gospel. Among them: Infowars’ Alex Jones, who claimed that Hurricanes Milton and Helene were “weather weapons” unleashed on the East Coast by the U.S. government, and “truth seeker” accounts on X that posted photos of condensation trails in the sky to baselessly allege that the government was “spraying Florida ahead of Hurricane Milton” in order to ensure maximum rainfall, “just like they did over Asheville!”

As Milton made landfall, causing a series of tornados, a verified account on X reposted a TikTok video of a massive funnel cloud with the caption “WHAT IS HAPPENING TO FLORIDA?!” The clip, which was eventually removed but had been viewed 662,000 times as of yesterday evening, turned out to be from a video of a CGI tornado that was originally published months ago. Scrolling through these platforms, watching them fill with false information, harebrained theories, and doctored images—all while panicked residents boarded up their houses, struggled to evacuate, and prayed that their worldly possessions wouldn’t be obliterated overnight—offered a portrait of American discourse almost too bleak to reckon with head-on.

I tried out my argument as presented herein with my far right relative.

He got in my face somewhat, but we have a truce understanding - no physical attacks.

He finally summed it up with the statement that he would vote for Hitler rather than Harris.

That says everything.

Oh, BTW, he thinks that transgender men allowed in women's bathrooms defines the left, and he has zero trust in governance.

I'm appalled and disappointed because IMO, there is no way to reconcile.

There is a way to reconcile.

We have to respect the process.

When we lose . We lose and move on.

quote:

There is a way to reconcile.

Losing, frankly, means that lies win, and the whole package with it.

I don't know how to reconcile with that.

I may be able to accept it, in reality, but I haven't worked that out yet.

I question Truth but I know what a lie is and what it means.

I resist the prepper mentality, but that's it if lies win.

quote:

We have to respect the process.

There should be no doubt that I respect the Founding process. That's the basis for my worry. It's obvious to me that Trumpism has no respect or abidance to the traditional "process". They are intentionally perverting it.

That's what I don't respect, especially if they win, and there is momentum in that direction.

quote:

When we lose . We lose and move on.

I don't like the way you said that. IMO, if "we" lose the movement will be exactly like those who have experienced the transition to full fascism. How do "we" the people move on in that scenario? We just stfu and wait for the inevitable chaos and crash, but the outcome is uncertain, although the damage is predictable based on the past. For sure, it won't be what the Founders envisioned.

Here's a clue re the momentum of lies:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...5b34a8719094f4&ei=70

Speaker Johnson raises record-breaking haul in final quarter before 2024 election
Story by Cami Mondeaux, Washington Examiner • 10h • 2 min read

I also read a recent article claiming Fox set a new record for viewership and ratings, surpassing CNN and MSNBC by a lot.

That's after the restructuring following the lawsuit settlement and firings and promotions.

Fox got rid of some liars and some others in staff and management deemed not so good for ratings but promoted some of the liars like Hannity and the others we see now on air. It was all about ratings.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
There is a way to reconcile.

We have to respect the process.

When we lose . We lose and move on.

I responded to that post once already in a hasty and sorta emotional way. I just can't stand the thought of adjusting to a Trump win.

The way you wrote that post seems odd to me. It doesn't seem "normal" for you compared to your previous posts.

It's like you are talking about a baseball game, in which case reconciling with the opposing team is healthy and traditional. The "process" in this example is the rules of the game, long established and known by both teams and the refs and abidance is expected, mutually reconciled initially. Naturally there will be a winner, overtime if necessary, and each team analyzes what they did right and wrong and starts thinking about the next game. There is no blaming the other team or trying to steal the win, normally.

This political contest between Harris and Trump, democrats and republicans, isn't on the same plane as a baseball game. The "process" has been corrupted and violated by one team for the sake of the win. If that happened in a baseball game to the extent it is happening in the political game "WE" would be outraged and make corrections. The stakes are basically the same because what's at stake in either case is the game or contest itself.

Good luck with the "corrections" thing in the political arena. We're not able to correct it now, in process, and when the contest is over and if it's Trump(ism) who wins the powerhouse office, your suggestion to just move on reeks with impotence. In fact, the corruption of the process is the winning formula. Can you imagine a baseball game where one team broke all the rules they deemed justified to win?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...7e9ac8946bfa6b&ei=16

Election is 'endgame' for a man who 'wants to be a dictator'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...253655b50d16cb&ei=53

Common thread ties Trump’s Aurora, Springfield and Helene recovery lies
Story by Steve Benen • 1d • 3 min read

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...222abc0163263c&ei=40

'He proved it. Events prove it.': Woodward on Milley calling Trump 'fascist to his core'

And another thing is J,D, Vance. He's lying for Trump, parroting and supporting Trump's lies. If Trump and Vance win this election there's a high probability that Vance could be POTUS, sooner or later. He has no problem of conscience breaking rules to stay in power.

ME we tried giving you a Dole, a McCain, a Romney, a Ford and what happened?

We gave you a Nixon (he was extremely moderate… who passed the EPA?) but his faults were very much personal moral failings.


Yet Nixon is the antichrist to the political machine.

Whenever we nominate a moderate, the democrats and the media blast them as being every bit as awful as Trump or W (also a pretty moderate Republican)…

So the GOP has kind of been forced to go further right by the national culture and voter behavior.

Was Carter more moderate than Ford? No.

Was Clinton more moderate or moral than Bob Dole? No.

Was Obama more moderate than Romney? No.

I’d probably call John McCain and Obama equally polarized.


Hillary Clinton was more politically left of center than Trump was right of center in 2016.

Biden was more left of center than Trump was right of center policy wise- although I grant that the 2016, 2020, and this election are not about relative extremism in their policies. They are all more based on negatives of the candidates.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
ME we tried giving you a Dole, a McCain, a Romney, a Ford and what happened?

We gave you a Nixon (he was extremely moderate… who passed the EPA?) but his faults were very much personal moral failings.


Yet Nixon is the antichrist to the political machine.

Whenever we nominate a moderate, the democrats and the media blast them as being every bit as awful as Trump or W (also a pretty moderate Republican)…

So the GOP has kind of been forced to go further right by the national culture and voter behavior.

Was Carter more moderate than Ford? No.

Was Clinton more moderate or moral than Bob Dole? No.

Was Obama more moderate than Romney? No.

I’d probably call John McCain and Obama equally polarized.


Hillary Clinton was more politically left of center than Trump was right of center in 2016.

Biden was more left of center than Trump was right of center policy wise- although I grant that the 2016, 2020, and this election are not about relative extremism in their policies. They are all more based on negatives of the candidates.

"Just look what you made me do!"

US politics has become the Thompson voting for the lesser evil for many for decades.

The parties both have been forcing less compromise and moderation ever since Eisenhower.

So yes, almost all the voters can say that about who they vote for.

Any voter who is not making some compromises by voting for a candidate is a pretty lame thinker.

Miley isn't used as an authority so much as a witness in this thread. So the logical fallacy doesn't apply.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
US politics has become the Thompson voting for the lesser evil for many for decades.

The parties both have been forcing less compromise and moderation ever since Eisenhower.

So yes, almost all the voters can say that about who they vote for.

Any voter who is not making some compromises by voting for a candidate is a pretty lame thinker.

I cannot discern a single reason for a rational person to vote for Donald Trump, but of course I don't find racism, misogyny or fascism to be rational.

Kamala Harris would be that single reason. Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
Kamala Harris would be that single reason. Bill.

Harris poses no threat to the future of American democracy, at worst she may advocate for policies with which you disagree.

Donald Trump plans to use the Justice Department and military force against his political opponents.

Jeff5, I haven't seen a more perfect reply in a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
ME we tried giving you a Dole, a McCain, a Romney, a Ford and what happened?

We gave you a Nixon (he was extremely moderate… who passed the EPA?) but his faults were very much personal moral failings.


Yet Nixon is the antichrist to the political machine.

Whenever we nominate a moderate, the democrats and the media blast them as being every bit as awful as Trump or W (also a pretty moderate Republican)…

So the GOP has kind of been forced to go further right by the national culture and voter behavior.

Was Carter more moderate than Ford? No.

Was Clinton more moderate or moral than Bob Dole? No.

Was Obama more moderate than Romney? No.

I’d probably call John McCain and Obama equally polarized.


Hillary Clinton was more politically left of center than Trump was right of center in 2016.

Biden was more left of center than Trump was right of center policy wise- although I grant that the 2016, 2020, and this election are not about relative extremism in their policies. They are all more based on negatives of the candidates.

"Just look what you made me do!"

Who wouldn’t assasinate a fascist pos if given the chance? Aren’t you morally beholden to stop Hitler if given the chance?

tomahawker, you are projecting your morals upon others.

Assassinate? NO

But I would celebrate if the fascist wannabee was prosecuted and sentenced accordingly by the thing he hates the most - the Rule of Law.

BTW, I have been holding onto my Alaska residency, because I have a cabin up there to claim. But I gave up on the residency claim and registered to vote in Georgia, specifically to vote for Harris and other democrats. I read the news today that Georgia has set a record for early voting turnout. Today was the first day of early voting.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...035cba81cc557&ei=115

Military leaders react to Gen. Milley calling Trump a 'fascist' in new Bob Woodward book

Retired General Barry McCaffrey and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America CEO Allison Jaslow join Nicolle Wallace to react to General Mark Milley’s comments calling former President Trump “fascist to the core.”

Once they became citizens retired from service, Trump had no business ordering Gen. Miley to make them be quiet.

That is a violation of 1st Amendment Free Speech directly as the Bill of Rights envisioned.

The Chief Federal Magistrate using the power of the Federal Army to silence political dissent.

I'm pretty sure that very few herein watch the videos and articles I post, and fewer yet watch and read it all.

Just so you know, I try to screen the links I post and go back once posted to ensure the links work. There's just too much info out there so I think it's important to be sparing and focus the point.

Mr. LHeym, I think maybe your post above might relate to part of the video. I wasn't able to start it at the exact spot since it's not youtube. Scroll to 5:26 .

I would appreciate it if you critique what Retired General Barry McCaffrey said and if applicable how it relates to your above post.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...035cba81cc557&ei=115

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Who wouldn’t assasinate a fascist pos if given the chance? Aren’t you morally beholden to stop Hitler if given the chance?

Trump is no Hitler, much more like PT Barnum, a shyster with no morals or ethics.

Political violence is just not part of a solution. However, it is part of a problem and indicates a bigger problem.

There is no doubt that one major tool that Trump uses is promoting or blessing political violence.

Eliminating Trump with violence is way over the top, bigtime wrong. Aside from the moral reasons, there are political reasons.

First, he should never become a martyr.

Secondly, the best justice is served cold, hard and cold, by the Rule of Law.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Who wouldn’t assasinate a fascist pos if given the chance? Aren’t you morally beholden to stop Hitler if given the chance?

Trump is no Hitler, much more like PT Barnum, a shyster with no morals or ethics.

J R Ewing with ALL of his brain tied behind his back.

quote:

J R Ewing

That's friggin' funny.

J R wouldn't assassinate Trump. He would cut a deal with him as part of the Broligarch.

I've been thinking about someone who frequently posts herein and who he reminds me of.

J R Ewing is the perfect vicarious persona.

https://clickamericana.com/med...g-on-tvs-dallas-1978

Why Larry Hagman loved playing the evil JR Ewing on TV’s Dallas

Excerpt quote:

At a recent Hollywood charity dinner, the celebrities hissed Hagman as he walked by. “Isn’t it great to be that rotten — and be so popular?” he asks. “It must strike some familiar chord in people. Something they identify with.”

Hagman, ...says “Compared to the real Texas, this is milquetoast. It’s a nice little fairy story. If you told the real story, you couldn’t get on the air.”
.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The Orange Turd is no leader and is completely devoid of character, no need for questioning, it is simply does not exist inside that POS.

JHC Steve..".Orange turd" the best you can do? You on alcohol or drugs?

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
The Orange Turd is no leader and is completely devoid of character, no need for questioning, it is simply does not exist inside that POS.

JHC Steve..".Orange turd" the best you can do? You on alcohol or drugs?

No, I watched the man try to steal a Presidential election, clearly. I heard "the perfect phone call" where he asked Raffensperger to find him 11, 780 votes.

Trump has zero integrity or respect for the rule of law. That man should never again hold any elected office, not even dog catcher.

I struggle to see how ANYONE could support that man after his behavior on Jan the 6th.

Rationalize it however you must, that was the most pathetic behavior I have witnessed in politics during my 53 years on the planet. Nixon at least had some shame.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

J R Ewing

That's friggin' funny.

J R wouldn't assassinate Trump. He would cut a deal with him as part of the Broligarch.

I've been thinking about someone who frequently posts herein and who he reminds me of.

J R Ewing is the perfect vicarious persona.

https://clickamericana.com/med...g-on-tvs-dallas-1978

Why Larry Hagman loved playing the evil JR Ewing on TV’s Dallas

Excerpt quote:

At a recent Hollywood charity dinner, the celebrities hissed Hagman as he walked by. “Isn’t it great to be that rotten — and be so popular?” he asks. “It must strike some familiar chord in people. Something they identify with.”

Hagman, ...says “Compared to the real Texas, this is milquetoast. It’s a nice little fairy story. If you told the real story, you couldn’t get on the air.”
.

They're both sneaky snakey unprincipled opportunists.