Finally. Maybe this is the beginning of trump finally being held to account for his financial shenanigans.

https://thehill.com/regulation...-real-estate-empire/

Yeah finally, everyone knows it’s a witch hunt. Unfortunately he could murder a trans kid but at this point all the litigation is so farcical not a soul truly believes. There’s an allegory -Cry Wolf

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Yeah finally, everyone knows it’s a witch hunt. Unfortunately he could murder a trans kid but at this point all the litigation is so farcical not a soul truly believes. There’s an allegory -Cry Wolf

Actually, the court's findings were based on evidence. I've posted this many times here before. trump was found liable for misrepresenting the value of his assets to lenders when looking for loans. He'd say one thing on a disclosure to a bank when he was looking for a loan and something entirely different to the tax assessors when the time came to value his real estate holdings for tax purposes. That's against state and federal law.

So, no, it's not a witch hunt. It's (hopefully) the beginning of somebody, finally, holding this grifter and his family accountable.

Dem cancer working like a champ.

quote:

Originally posted by loiblb:
Dem cancer working like a champ.

Defending the cult leader also working well.

Trump is an embarrassment to the nation and I’m embarrassed to say I actually voted for the crook…

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Yeah finally, everyone knows it’s a witch hunt. Unfortunately he could murder a trans kid but at this point all the litigation is so farcical not a soul truly believes. There’s an allegory -Cry Wolf

"everyone knows it's a witch hunt" "all the litigation is so farcical not a soul truly believes"???

Only within your MAGA echo chamber. So, thanks for reminding us of the astounding fact that such exists.

https://youtu.be/Ne0FVkpL7JU?si=FHz99dH1eGY-H-TY

jdollar, kudos for admitting your past choices and being open-minded enough to look at the evidence. I have quite a few friends who have come to that same fork in the road.

Fools like loiblb can't be helped. We carry them along in our society, they weigh us down, but so far we have narrowly outnumbered them, which is a sad commentary on Americans in general.

I think the reason any Republican Presidential candidate will lose in 2024, is because of the shadow of Donald Trump. I won't vote Republican if I think Trump and MAGA will be controlling the strings. All of the Republican contenders have at one point or another knelt and kissed the head of Trump's dick. I won't forgive them for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Yeah finally, everyone knows it’s a witch hunt. Unfortunately he could murder a trans kid but at this point all the litigation is so farcical not a soul truly believes. There’s an allegory -Cry Wolf

Actually, the court's findings were based on evidence. I've posted this many times here before. trump was found liable for misrepresenting the value of his assets to lenders when looking for loans. He'd say one thing on a disclosure to a bank when he was looking for a loan and something entirely different to the tax assessors when the time came to value his real estate holdings for tax purposes. That's against state and federal law.

So, no, it's not a witch hunt. It's (hopefully) the beginning of somebody, finally, holding this grifter and his family accountable.

But they sure do keep bagging a lot of witches don't they?

I'm so old I can remember when a "witch hunt" meant hunting for something that wasn't there, not merely rounding up an entire Presidential Administration and sorting the "defendants" from the "witnesses"...

Here's a large part of the problem:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...Gry?ocid=socialshare

Fox News

Trump being punished 'in every way possible' through political persecution: Rep. Jeff Van Drew

Rep. Jeff Van Drew, R-N.J., joined 'FOX & Friends First' to discuss a judge ruling Trump committed fraud

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Trump is an embarrassment to the nation and I’m embarrassed to say I actually voted for the crook…

I resemble that remark!

Everything we tried and tried to tell ya'll about this rapey, gropey, Russian-compromised wannabee mob boss whose entire financial "empire" was built on fraud, every single goddamned word, is being proven correct.

Donald Trump has no redeeming human qualities; at least his Grandfather ran a whorehouse where his clients got screwed when they paid to get screwed.

With Donald you only get half the deal.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Trump is an embarrassment to the nation and I’m embarrassed to say I actually voted for the crook…

I think there's a quality of character in a person who can change their mind about something as significant as Trump, and admit their mistake.

Although true, the I-told-you-so thing is rubbing it in. Such people are unusual and should be applauded and respected.

I just hope I have that quality of character, as I claim to have, and not fooling myself. I think I also can change my mind on things if the evidence and facts are sufficient.

If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

quote:

reasonable alternatives

How is that possible, in the Right's view, given all that the Right "knows" about the left?

I ask that question in the context that much of what the Right "knows", as in believes, about the left and "the direction" are lies, or at best distortions.

We told you he desperately wanted to bang his daughter when she was a child.

He told you on Howard Stern if she wasn't his daughter "perhaps" he'd be dating her when she was what, 16?

We told you he was a groper and a pervert.

He told you one of the best parts of owning the Miss Teen USA Pageant was getting to walk into the dressing room unannounced whenever he wanted to.

You accused Hillary Clinton of running a ring of pedophiles in the basement of a pizza parlor with no basement.

Had the options been "Believe "A" or believe "B", the evidence is about equal" that would be a difference of opinion.

Had the options been "Believe "A" for which there is considerable evidence or "B" for which there is none." believing B would be public stupidity.

The options were "Believe "A", for which there is multi-source documentary evidence and the protagonist is exhausting every possible semi-legal strategem to hide the truth or Believe "B" which was obviously manufactured from whole cloth to deflect from the awful truth about "A" staring you right in the fucking face."

You chose "A".

And that was all before Putin punked Trump in front of the world at Helsinki.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
Trump is an embarrassment to the nation and I’m embarrassed to say I actually voted for the crook…

I think there's a quality of character in a person who can change their mind about something as significant as Trump, and admit their mistake.

Although true, the I-told-you-so thing is rubbing it in. Such people are unusual and should be applauded and respected.

I just hope I have that quality of character, as I claim to have, and not fooling myself. I think I also can change my mind on things if the evidence and facts are sufficient.

After they have spent years crawling through a self-generated river of slime and filth they don't get to just get up at the end, dust themselves off and say "Well, what's next, old chap?"

They can crawl their fetid asses right back up the sewer they built and when they emerge at the top, after filling it in behind them, we can talk about possible decontamination.

Too many hungry lawyers!

Not much common sense!

Well, if I didn't adopt an attitude of forgiveness, for those who are forgivable, IMO, I would be holding too many grudges, and probably the reciprocal is true too. I've said several times that my friends and relatives are Rightists to varying degrees.

Some are deplorables, but they have redeeming qualities. It's to my advantage that I look at that and try to ignore the rest. It's not easy. Sometimes they piss me off.

On this forum I can say stuff that I normally keep to myself amongst "them".

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Well, if I didn't adopt an attitude of forgiveness, for those who are forgivable, IMO, I would be holding too many grudges, and probably the reciprocal is true too. I've said several times that my friends and relatives are Rightists to varying degrees.

Some are deplorables, but they have redeeming qualities. It's to my advantage that I look at that and try to ignore the rest. It's not easy. Sometimes they piss me off.

On this forum I can say stuff that I normally keep to myself amongst "them".

I neither have nor want multiple personas for different venues, all I can be is me, I don't know how to be anyone else and don't intend to try to learn.

If I'll call a man a stupid son-of-a-bitch online for supporting an anti-democratic piece of shit like Trump after the evidence proves what we said about him all along was true I'll tell him to his face. How he reacts is entirely up to him.

If you ran across me on Twitter, or floating my favorite river in a canoe, you'd likely get suspicious that there was something familiar about this cantankerous old bastard before long and there's a good chance you'd figure it out eventually.

This song must be for you, Sarge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

No shit...they somehow managed to run Tusli Gabbard out of the party with silliness, one of very few who's seen a little warfare and doesn't want to see any more of it.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
This song must be for you, Sarge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

I bother no-one intentionally or, generally, foreseeably. I grant everyone around me every right I claim for myself, primary among which is simply the right to be left the hell alone if I'm not bothering anyone.

I'm not an extroverted asshole determined to prove just how obnoxious I can be, if I want to do that I'll make a batch of napalm.

I'm the quiet asshole nobody ever profited by fucking with, and nobody ever did it to for amusement twice.

There are circumstances and mistakes where it's appropriate to say "Damn, I got that wrong, didn't I?" and appropriate for the other party to say "Yep, happens to everybody if they live long enough." but trafficking in outright lies of a vile nature for years to support an obvious grifter and con even after he tried to literally overthrow democracy in the United States ain't those circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

When was the last time either Party declined to nominate the sitting President if he wanted the nomination?

Who would you propose as this "reasonable alternative"?

quote:

There are circumstances and mistakes where it's appropriate to say "Damn, I got that wrong, didn't I?" and appropriate for the other party to say "Yep, happens to everybody if they live long enough." but trafficking in outright lies of a vile nature for years to support an obvious grifter and con even after he tried to literally overthrow democracy in the United States ain't those circumstances.

Okay - just sayin' that admitting a mistake, even a dramatic as voting for Trump, is a small step in the right direction. I doubt that we had any influence on that. I think that they sorted that out for themselves, albeit slowly, maybe too little/too late. They represent a small segment in the MEGA world. At least they didn't double-down as most of the Trumpsters do.

The question remains - if and when will they see reality in the present? I think only those GOPers who have admitted their mistake in once supporting Trump can make the leap in the present, rather than in hindsight.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...02e532e4dbde6b&ei=74

'How did Dr. Frankenstein deal with his monster?'; Trump era GOP struggles with old school politics

Michael Steele, former chair of the RNC, talks with Rachel Maddow about whether the Trump-supporting Republican base no longer sees democracy as the best way to achieve their goals and would prefer a strongman, authoritarian enforcer, and what that means for how the party conducts campaigns and debates and other rituals of politics.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

When was the last time either Party declined to nominate the sitting President if he wanted the nomination?

Who would you propose as this "reasonable alternative"?

Never. Tradition mandates that trump be POTUS again, I guess?

Somebody that wouldn't be trailing trump in every single poll right now?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

When was the last time either Party declined to nominate the sitting President if he wanted the nomination?

Who would you propose as this "reasonable alternative"?

Never. Tradition mandates that trump be POTUS again, I guess?

Somebody that wouldn't be trailing trump in every single poll right now?

Trump is not a sitting President, and they are massaging those polls so hard to try to get a horse race the poor things can't walk for a week.

Go look at the outcomes of all the special elections since 2022 when the "Red Wave" turned out to be a minor ripple, Democrats have overperformed expectations by 8% on average. That will go up.

How many supporters do you suppose Trump has lost since Biden beat him by 7 million votes, and how many has he gained? Do you think Guilty verdicts and prison sentences are going to improve his polling numbers?

I don't see Trump getting the Republican nomination and carrying it to the General nor do I see a viable replacement who can draw the 25% of the Republican electorate who are hard-core mouth breathing MAGAts; those idiots will either write him in or stay home and whatever sacrificial lamb to Trump's vanity heads the ticket will be very fortunate if they only lose the popular vote by 15 or 20 million.

No matter who they are they will carry Trump around their neck like an albatross, and his stench will come along for the ride.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
If the goddamn democrats would give people reasonable alternatives, trump would be a non-issue.

When was the last time either Party declined to nominate the sitting President if he wanted the nomination?

Who would you propose as this "reasonable alternative"?

Never. Tradition mandates that trump be POTUS again, I guess?

Somebody that wouldn't be trailing trump in every single poll right now?

Trump is not a sitting President, and they are massaging those polls so hard to try to get a horse race the poor things can't walk for a week.

Go look at the outcomes of all the special elections since 2022 when the "Red Wave" turned out to be a minor ripple, Democrats have overperformed expectations by 8% on average. That will go up.

How many supporters do you suppose Trump has lost since Biden beat him by 7 million votes, and how many has he gained? Do you think Guilty verdicts and prison sentences are going to improve his polling numbers?

I don't see Trump getting the Republican nomination and carrying it to the General nor do I see a viable replacement who can draw the 25% of the Republican electorate who are hard-core mouth breathing MAGAts; those idiots will either write him in or stay home and whatever sacrificial lamb to Trump's vanity heads the ticket will be very fortunate if they only lose the popular vote by 15 or 20 million.

No matter who they are they will carry Trump around their neck like an albatross, and his stench will come along for the ride.

I'm with you, understand all the arguments.

Go look at the outcome in 2016. A flawed Dem candidate resulted in the election of a moron. It could happen again.

Top US general taking steps to protect family after Trump death comments
Story by Reuters • 12h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a933390fb9362c&ei=73

Let's get ready for the

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Okay - just sayin' that admitting a mistake, even a dramatic as voting for Trump,

Dah, comrade - i can see your idea of America is where voting for the losing candidate it a political crime, subject to the full fury of the PARTY's apparatchiks to ruin the traitor's

Works in China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Let's get ready for the

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Okay - just sayin' that admitting a mistake, even a dramatic as voting for Trump,

Dah, comrade - i can see your idea of America is where voting for the losing candidate it a political crime, subject to the full fury of the PARTY's apparatchiks to ruin the traitor's

Works in China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela

Then you don't see my ideas at all. You "see" what you are indoctrinated to see, mostly.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Top US general taking steps to protect family after Trump death comments
Story by Reuters • 12h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a933390fb9362c&ei=73

Sad. A man who has literally spent his entire life defending our country and he has to take measures to protect himself and his family because of that fucking idiot. I'll say what I always say when it comes to the incredibly stupid divisive shit trump says: defies belief. If you had told me even ten years ago that I'd be reading headlines like this, I would have recommended shock treatment for your head.

Now? Normal and expected behavior from the leader of the republican party who stands a very good chance of being re-elected as the President of the United States.

How on earth did we get here?

quote:

How on earth did we get here?

A small clue - see the two previous posts.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

How on earth did we get here?

A small clue - see the two previous posts.

Rhetorical.

I understand exactly how we got here. What's even more concerning is where we are headed if that idiot gets elected again.

How did we get here?

Ever since the election of DDE, we have been in a tailspin as far as public life.

I would like to hope that we hit bottom and might be on the way up, but all indications suggest we are continuing on our merry way.

It’s horrid that a public official gets this from a candidate for elective office, but given we don’t do much in general to folks who act like this, I assume it’s safe to expect more of the same.

Having gotten threats myself, it’s not much fun… and given I don’t have the $ or position to get protection, I really despise the party that wants to take away my means of defense.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Top US general taking steps to protect family after Trump death comments
Story by Reuters • 12h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...a933390fb9362c&ei=73

Sad. A man who has literally spent his entire life defending our country and he has to take measures to protect himself and his family because of that fucking idiot. I'll say what I always say when it comes to the incredibly stupid divisive shit trump says: defies belief. If you had told me even ten years ago that I'd be reading headlines like this, I would have recommended shock treatment for your head.

Now? Normal and expected behavior from the leader of the republican party who stands a very good chance of being re-elected as the President of the United States.

How on earth did we get here?

quote:

I really despise the party that wants to take away my means of defense.

What party would that be? That's news to me.

Prove your claim.

Maybe an appeal to authority is appropriate for that claim?

Here's my appeal to authority:

Hitchens's razor is an epistemological razor that serves as a general rule for rejecting certain knowledge claims. It states "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." The razor was created by and named after author and journalist Christopher Hitchens (1949–2011).

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Let's get ready for the

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
Okay - just sayin' that admitting a mistake, even a dramatic as voting for Trump,

Dah, comrade - i can see your idea of America is where voting for the losing candidate it a political crime, subject to the full fury of the PARTY's apparatchiks to ruin the traitor's

Works in China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela

Then you don't see my ideas at all. You "see" what you are indoctrinated to see, mostly.

It's literally what you said, kabob -- i see YOU calling voting for anyone YOU disagree with as a "Dramatic mistake" .. dah, comrade ..

quote:

It's literally what you said, kabob -- i see YOU calling voting for anyone YOU disagree with as a "Dramatic mistake" .. dah, comrade ..

It's not just that I disagree with. It's that the evidence was there all along. So the question remains. Did folks vote for Trump because they understood and agreed, or did they vote because of ignorance? Either way, we are where we are today. But I think the distinction makes a difference.