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| One of Us |
So much for the idiotic idea that these clowns were invited in and escorted around the US Capitol. https://www.politifact.com/fac...-claim-about-capito/ Evidence rebuts Tucker Carlson’s claim about Capitol Police acting as tour guides to ‘QAnon Shaman’ Available evidence rebuts Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s claim that Capitol Police officers acted as "tour guides" for "QAnon Shaman" Jacob Chansley during the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack. Officers repeatedly asked Chansley to leave the building. This is corroborated by the plea agreement Chansley signed and a Capitol Police officer’s account of the events. Capitol Police Chief Thomas Manger called Carlson’s claim "outrageous and false" in an internal department memo. He wrote that officers used de-escalation tactics to try to talk rioters into getting each other to leave the Capitol. Jacob Chansley, more infamously known as the "QAnon Shaman," is serving out a 41-month prison sentence for his actions during the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol. Photos from the attack show Chansely, clad in red, white and blue face paint and a horned fur cap, walking the Capitol’s halls and shouting in the Senate chamber. In September 2021, Chansley pleaded guilty to a felony charge of obstructing an official proceeding. While in the Capitol, Chansley was followed by Capitol Police and repeatedly ignored officers’ orders and requests to leave the building, according to Chansely’s signed plea agreement. But during a March 6 segment of "Tucker Carlson Tonight," Fox News host Tucker Carlson portrayed the events differently, suggesting that Chansley had officers’ support and hadn’t disobeyed them. "The tapes show that Capitol police never stopped Jacob Chansley, they helped him," Carlson said. "They acted as his tour guides." As Carlson spoke, Fox played surveillance video footage without audio that showed officers near Chansley, often appearing to trail behind him. Carlson said he received what he called "unfettered" access to more than 40,000 hours of unreleased surveillance tape from the riot from House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif. During his show, Carlson introduced a video of Chansley in the Senate chamber, and said that Capitol police officers were taking Chansley "to multiple entrances" and trying to "open locked doors for him." "We counted at least nine officers who were within touching distance of unarmed Jacob Chansley, not one of them even tried to slow him down," Carlson said. "Chansley understood the Capitol police were his allies." However, Chansley’s signed plea agreement, an officer’s firsthand account of the events, and an internal memo from Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger all contradict Carlson’s claim that Capitol Police acted as Chansley’s Capitol "tour guides" Jan. 6. After hundreds of rioters overwhelmed police and breached the Capitol building, Capitol Police officers repeatedly asked Chansley to leave the Capitol. He refused, delaying Congress’ certification of the 2020 election results for hours, according to his plea agreement. Chansley’s plea agreement Chansley was arrested in Phoenix three days after the Capitol attack. Although he initially faced six charges, Chansley in November pleaded guilty to one count of obstructing an official proceeding. Capitol Police officers repeatedly asked Chansley and other rioters to leave the Capitol building, according to the plea agreement. The seven-page agreement stated that "if this case were to go to trial, the government would prove the following facts beyond a reasonable doubt," and then listed the following details: Chansley entered the Capitol through a door other rioters had broken open. He was among the first 30 rioters inside the building. Chansley and other rioters went to the second floor of the Senate side of the building and "were met by a line of U.S. Capitol Police officers, instructing them to peacefully leave the building." Chansley challenged U.S. Capitol Police Officer Keith Robishaw "to let them pass." Chansley ultimately used "his bullhorn to rile up the crowd and demand that lawmakers be brought out." Chansley went to the third floor, entered the Senate Gallery and "proceeded to scream obscenities in the Gallery," as other rioters entered the Senate chamber below. Chansley next tried to gain entry to the Senate floor and again encountered Robishaw, "who once again asked him to leave the building." Chansley said others were on the Senate floor and he was going to join them; the officer followed him. Chansley climbed the Senate dais and sat in then-Vice President Mike Pence’s seat, taking pictures of himself. Despite repeated requests from Robishaw, Chansley refused to vacate the seat. "Mike Pence is a f- - -ing traitor," he said. Just after 3 p.m., "other law enforcement officers arrived to support (Robishaw) and cleared the defendant and other rioters from the chamber." Chansley signed that plea deal, attesting that he had read the account of the events and agreed "that it is true and accurate." "While it is not a complete recitation of all that I did or all that I know, it represents some of my conduct and some of my knowledge concerning my own involvement in illegal activity," read the statement just above Chansley’s signature. A Capitol Police officer’s firsthand account Robishaw was interviewed for the HBO documentary "Four Hours at the Capitol," released in October 2021. His firsthand account of the Jan. 6 Capitol attack supports the details in Chansley’s plea agreement. About 45 minutes into the film, Robishaw said he entered the Senate chamber behind "the Shaman," referring to Chansley. "And that’s when I realized I was alone now," he said. Robishaw’s comments were corroborated by accompanying footage, including video that showed him asking Chansley to leave: "Any chance I could get you guys to leave the Senate wing?" Robishaw described Chansley sitting at the lectern. He described being the lone officer in the chamber. "And, in my mind, I was like, ‘I can’t do anything,’ you know?" Robishaw said. "(What) I can only do is, you know, shout orders, and if they listen, great. If they don’t, I can’t force them. I’m by myself." Capitol Police were vastly outnumbered. A department spokesperson previously told PolitiFact that officers worked to de-escalate the situation during the attack by asking rioters to remain peaceful. We have not found evidence that Capitol Police officers let the rioters into the building or helped them once they were inside. Capitol Police chief rebutted Carlson’s claim In an internal department memo, Manger, the Capitol Police chief, said Carlson’s claim that officers helped the rioters and acted as tour guides was "outrageous and false." Manger denounced Carlson’s program and contested Carlson’s assertion that the network had reached out to Capitol Police for context before airing the segment. "This department stands by the officers in the video that was shown last night," Manger wrote. "I don’t have to remind you how outnumbered our officers were on January 6. Those officers did their best to use de-escalation tactics to try to talk rioters into getting each other to leave the building." The department did not respond to PolitiFact’s request for comment, but did confirm the memo’s authenticity. Our ruling Carlson claimed Capitol Police officers "helped" Chansley and "acted as his tour guides." Available evidence rebuts this claim. Chansley was among the first rioters to force their way into the building through a door other rioters had broken. Officers repeatedly asked Chansley to leave the building. This is corroborated by the plea agreement Chansley signed and an officer’s account of the events. The Capitol Police chief called Carlson’s claim "outrageous and false," and said officers used de-escalation tactics to try to talk rioters into getting each other to leave the Capitol. We rate this claim Pants on Fire! -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | ||
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Thanks for the facts. I read them. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Yep, don’t believe your lying eyes!  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I watched Jan 6 live. I will believe my eyes. | |||
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. . . exactly. Fuck the apologists. Mike | |||
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Obviously the "de escalation" tactics used by Capitol police didn't work. There should have been a whole lot more shooting. | |||
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Interesting...Just today, in this thread http://forums.accuratereloadin...041059372#6041059372 You weren't sure if anyone could sort out the truth or the facts? The truth is, The left cherry picks video/sources that favor their narrative, The right cherry picks theirs. It's no different, other than the prism with which you see them through. Formerly "Nganga" | |||
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Except that videos of the obviously violent rioting make pretty damn good cherry picking. You can video a mass murder in progress and the defense can credibly cherry pick video from just before or after claiming it never happened? | |||
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I did as well. However, the surveillance videos put a whole new perspective on all of the hyperbole spewed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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No they don't ....only fools believe bullshit outtakes by fucker carlson. | |||
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Let's call it what it is: you and the morons who think like you think that you finally have something to latch onto in terms of defending what happened on J6. No matter how stupid your reasoning is, you now have some sort of defense for your cohorts indefensible behavior. The rest of us know better. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Yep, disregard everything you see on ‘actual’ surveillance video recording. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Yep, that's what you are doing - choosing that which supports you preconceptions. You should be ashamed rather than doubling down. Your first clue is the source - Carlson. I think you have no shame. First, Carlson edits or selects portions of the video and presents it as all the facts needed to draw conclusions, but he goes much further and draws conclusions for you on several related issues and levels. It's clearly a case of telling his listeners what they want to hear, and already believe. Does anyone actually think that those of us who are not true believers, actually wanted to see the news as it was happening on 1/6? Do you think we actually wanted an investigative commission to affirm what our lying eyes had already seen? Do you think we needed affirmations of lies? Do you think we want alt-reality that suits our preconceptions? If the answers are yes, then you don't understand us. All you have is projection of your own morals and ability to sort reality on us, and grasp for anything to make it so in your mind. That's a major difference in what Carlson is doing and what actually happened. He is demonstrating that alt-reality can be artfully crafted. We all knew that since there's plenty of examples. But this is in-your-face evidence of the fomenting. =============================================== And Carlson is just one segment of a much larger picture: There's a lot of hate, lies, propaganda, schemes for domination, and fomenting thereof. Fascist Fodder are part of it. They must be fed, but the BIG Boyz are in charge and make the plans and make it happen. Fucker Carlson is just a tool. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...cbb365cf870958&ei=40 Inside the “Private and Confidential” Conservative Group That Promises to “Crush Liberal Dominance” Story by by Andy Kroll and Andrea Bernstein, ProPublica, and Nick Surgey, Documented • 1h ago https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...cbb365cf870958&ei=45 Tucker Carlson claims BLM protest was ‘Antifa’ plot to ‘force Trump from office’ Story by Maroosha Muzaffar • 7h ago XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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Lane, what exactly do you believe Tucker’s video proves? That there was no attack on the Capitol? That Trump didn’t promote this attack? That some 1,000 people didn’t commit crimes that day? That some of the cops were complicit? | |||
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It proves that the dumbing down of America is far worse than we thought... | |||
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Come on Lane, you are touting this video. What’s it prove about what you call as a riot? | |||
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Thanks, trump. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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No. That is the MSM and CNN...... . | |||
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Actually, in fact the vast majority of educators in the US are registered Democrats, and have been for many years. So if there is anyone responsible for the dumbing down of Americans, I would start there and work your way up, or down the chain. Oh and I guess unless I quantify I can't be taken seriously so, Yes, Trump sucked and J6 was BAD. . | |||
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I would suggest that the congress trying to not release all the footage is the culprit here. They should have released it all when they used the 1/6 evidence and claimed here are examples, but if you want to review the whole, be our guest and you will see we are not misrepresenting anything. The democrats picked some film and refused to release the rest. I don’t see the angst about McCarthy releasing the rest, just that he did it as an exclusive to Carlson… but the Dems leak selectively all the time as well, so their outrage is pretty hypocritical. I don’t see this as justification for the 1/6 defendants particularly… but I do see it as calling into question the Democrat’s conclusions about wholesale violence on the part of everyone who participated in the rally. And for those commenting on “I saw what I saw on 1/6!” remember that what you saw was edited and selected by someone, because they certainly didn’t televise every camera for the whole event. To me, one damning thing, if true, is the refusal of the government to make these tapes available to defense counsel. There is no justification for that under our law that I see. | |||
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refusing to revise one's opinion on new evidence sounds like faith over facts. what we HAD was the worst possible views into the grand trespass (not a single person has been found guilty of insurrection) - what tucker presented as the best possible view -- the TRUTH is somewhere between the extremes #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Let us know when you come across some new evidence. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Yeah, all those people with education, you know how they are.....  -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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No Mike, I don't know how educated people "are" ,whatever that means? I do know a dodge when I see it though. . | |||
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Gee Mike. You have how many years in education? At least 7 after high school. I’ve got 12. The majority of folks who teach make less than either one of us. What makes a person choose a less financially lucrative career? Usually worldview that puts a priority on something else. In general, folks who elect to become educators (yes it’s a generalization) have priorities that go along with a liberal political ideology. Is that a good thing? It’s understandable. But is it good, from a societal standpoint? | |||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Ahe_nYbeU #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Wow. I am sorry I watched all ten minutes of that. I think I lost brain cells, I think I got a contact stupid. I don't think I know anyone dumb enough to really think that YouTube clip is any kind of evidence for anything other than the low IQ of the videos creators and advocates. Damn that's dumb. | |||
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Politicizing and cherry picking has gone on forever. Yes, it is wrong but nothing ever gets done about it. Before you read on I will say I know many of you here are in approval of another man being called woman of the year by this disgusting government we have so I know why you think the way you do. No one is in any way in approval of what went on that day. Those who broke doors, beat police, etc should be prosecuted to the fullest and fairest. Dumb shaman didn't do what many others did. He got four years because the left made him the poster boy and shaman wasn't even the worst offender. He is at best a clown in a clown suit and all the video shows how stupid not only he was but also the powers that be. I will say it here, obvious ulterior motives by LEO's involved. Someone told them to stand down and escort people around. This IS WRONG too. I bet they thought the video would not be released to the public. No one learned from Waco or Ruby Ridge. The public will not approve of the obvious fuckery here. The whole truth? We will never get it but some of the truth really looks BAD. Can't hide that. BTW- police officers ROUTINELY take on very bad people by themselves all the time. ALL THE TIME. Shaman was not pointing a weapon at anyone. What is causing the problem is the politicization, the with holding of evidence and the lack of prosecution for a lot of other terrible riots and crimes associated. All should be treated with due process strict to the law. Video show Ray Epps taking a leadership role with these idiots. Why isn't he in a jail cell? Many are not, again due to politicization and that is why many Americans have zero trust in their government. There is obviously a lot more going on. ~Ann   | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Are you really saying that people become teachers so they can influence the politics of the kids they are teaching? That is nutty. The fact of the matter is that the more educated you are, the more likely you are to be a democrat. Statistics don't lie and all the statistics support that statement. You may not think that education has anything to do with decision-making or the ability to evaluate political positions and engage in critical thinking...but, I do. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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1. Lane, ummm, the video didn’t say anything about: “However. these people did not destroy anywhere near as much property as riots in Ferguson, Baltimore, Portland, Twin City Area etc etc.” 2. “guy with the horns. The Capital Police obviously did not perceive him as a threat and he actually caused no real harm and destroyed no property yet the Feds crucified him to make a statement.” The “Capital police” is kind of broad, eh?” Tell us when this video was taken in reference to the melee that got a cop squeezed in a door. 3.” The Jan 6th committee went out of its way to show worst case scenario and be hyperbolic” How in the world does a video that shows the cops walking the dude in, diminish the beatings and the surge of hundreds of bodies into the Capitol. 4. “Instead, we see the Capital Police happily conversing with escorting in someone whom our DOJ decided to crucify. In this regard it reveals hypocrisy.” Are you saying this dude didn’t commit any crimes? Huh? Kind of like your Mike Flynn thingy? 5. “ Most of these convictions are by pleas. The Feds use scare tactics, lawyers safety up, and these folks plea out out of fear of the unknown. Granted…they should have never been there.” This is your common theme when people who you support confess to committing a crime. To accept the obvious, that in fact, they committed the crime, would destroy your narrative. How many, that haven’t been forced to accept a plea by the government and chose to go to trial have been exonerated? Answer that | |||
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Forty-odd-thousand hours of video. We will never see anything but curated segments of this, and good riddance. Is it better to release all of it in the interest of transparency, or not release it to people who might think of it as a blueprint for next time? TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| One of Us |
My experience with education shows your response is very individualized. The majority of my college classmates would regurgitate whatever the professor said for the exams and cherry pick things that affirmed their preexisting beliefs. I do think humans are a social animal, and there is a lot of behavioral science evidence that kids, especially the younger ones mimic adults. Teachers actually have the majority of the contact in an interactive environment with the kids. If a teacher is a Nazi, what happens? Worked in Germany in the 20’s-40’s… Why wouldn’t you think it would here? The teachers may not be thinking “I am going to propagandize these kids!” But they make a lot of decisions that the kids are immersed with based on their world view… CRT, Social Justice, Equity (as opposed to equality) and so on. If this wasn’t the case, why is there such a push for teachers to be of the same ethnicity as their students/multiculturalism? I think the old fashioned liberal arts education at the college level was good at teaching critical thinking and exposing students to a wide variety of subjects. Now days, I’m not so convinced. Talking to new graduates they are being grounded in activism without understanding either what they are supporting in more than an emotional/superficial sense or what they are protesting against. They can parrot the buzzword, but not explain it in their own words and give concrete examples. Yes, the statistics say the more education you get, the more likely democrat… and it’s massively inflated when you get away from more hard science/technical fields… why? If it was purely logic and facts then the hard sciences would be much more democrat, no? Med school admissions are now utilizing all kinds of nonacademic criteria for admission… and these criteria are typically leftist and chosen by academic politicians… So is the reason more are democrat that being a democrat is the more intellectual choice, or that you are exposed to an echo chamber of leftist thought through these formative years? My experience is that many of our recent graduates are not learning critical thinking. I really question the validity of a medical education that puts the emphasis on doing what the patient wants as opposed to what is scientifically shown to be optimal. | |||
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The analogy is "it happened in Nazi Germany in the 20's-'40's? Seriously?  -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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 I think anyone who posted that video obviously appreciates satire, or parody. How's that for the bright side?  XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...992ba852f57e30&ei=35 Insurrection? Let Tucker explain what you think you saw Opinion by Clarence Page, Tribune Content Ag XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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That would have been great. It worked on the WWI vets though. | |||
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| One of Us |
There's more to it than faith over facts. For one thing a person might note that "insurrection" is a term used in public opinion, but not in prosecuting the violators on 1/6. And act like that means the violators are the victims, which has huge implications, all based in conspiracy theory and conjecture. How's seditious conspiracy sound? https://www.click2houston.com/...ged-with-that-crime/ EXPLAINER: Jan. 6 has been called an insurrection, so why has no one been charged with that crime? ================================================ WASHINGTON – Elmer Stewart Rhodes III, the founder and leader of the Oath Keepers, and Kelly Meggs, the leader of the Florida chapter of the organization, were found guilty by a jury today of seditious conspiracy and other charges for crimes related to the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.Nov 29, 2022 https://www.justice.gov/usao-d...es%20III,6%2C%202021. XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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| One of Us |
Perhaps that assessment is the hallmark of those who can't sort it out. So what about the prism? One's prism is his own doing, and narratives too. Cherry picking can be with ill intent, ignorance, will towards an outcome, or in the case of prosecutions under law, cherry picking to include real evidence rather than bias and theory and pre-conceptions. So far the independence of the Judiciary seems intact. But the pressure is constant from those who value their prism more than the rule of law, and when the outcomes are not consistent with their prism, instead of questioning the prism they blame the judiciary or just make up shit. Fascism is a large prism and Fascist Fodder all live in its reflection with prisms of their own. Here's an example of prisms run amuck: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...ec9f30a43d7f07&ei=84 'Heads have to roll': House Republican teases prosecution of January 6th investigators Story by Brandon Gage • 2h ago XXX "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis Per my far-right friend: "reality sucks" FYI - if you ID as "conservative" nowadays, Trump owns you. | |||
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