The "crisis".......

https://www.reddit.com/r/texas...you_see_on_the_news/

I think the border situation, and immigration generally, is being seriously mishandled. I lay the blame at the feet of both parties. Neither want to really address the issue. A pox on both their houses.

That said, it is humorous that the Trumplicans will call what is happening at the border an "invasion". A group of people, largely consisting of mothers and children coming across the border is an invasion. On the other hand a group of rioters storming the Capitol, breaking down doors and windows, crashing into offices, fighting with police, taking over the floor of the House is not an "insurrection". You would like to think folks could put aside their political biases to at least try to be honest with themselves but apparently not.

We need some sort of fable we could teach children about the effects of constantly lying and what happens when eventually everything you say is assumed to be a lie, maybe we could craft it around a boy, toss in a wolf or something...

I do not believe that women and children are the majority of people crossing the border. I have seen many pictures showing hundreds of men waiting to cross

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
I do not believe that women and children are the majority of people crossing the border. I have seen many pictures showing hundreds of men waiting to cross

Have you asked yourself where you've seen these pictures and why they chose those particular pictures to show you?

It is not being well by anyone. It seems so simple, a country needs a secure border and an orderly system to get in. Once we establish that then we can fight about what it looks like.

2021 was the latest data fact check had.
35% who crossed were women/ women with children.

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
I do not believe that women and children are the majority of people crossing the border. I have seen many pictures showing hundreds of men waiting to cross

Exactly Mike…100% not true.

A couple of things that fella says that I agree with is that 1) the MSM has an agenda and lies to us and 2) we need to reevaluate our country.

If the Media has convinced Mike that the majority of the illegals are women and children, you can imagine it's worked on many many other people, as Mike is intelligent, well-educated, "present" and current, and likes to keep up on things


Things like this

quote:

More than 37,000 Chinese citizens were arrested for illegally crossing the southern border of the US in 2023, according to US Customs and Border Protection. That number is nearly 10 times the total in 2022 and more than double that of the entire previous decade

https://www.aljazeera.com/econ...%20previous%20decade.

tend to tilt the scale a BIT more than 1:1

More interesting info

New York governor wants $2.4 billion to take care of immigrants

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by MLindsay:
I do not believe that women and children are the majority of people crossing the border. I have seen many pictures showing hundreds of men waiting to cross

Exactly Mike…100% not true.

. . . what is a more apropos use of a term . . . "insurrection" for the events of January 6 or "invasion" for the events at the border?

. . . from Websters

insurrection: noun. in·​sur·​rec·​tion ˌin-sə-ˈrek-shən. : the act or an instance of revolting especially violently against civil or political authority or against an established government.

invasion: an act of invading
especially : incursion of an army for conquest or plunder

Who is conflating terms to fit a narrative? Don't be disinformating and misinformating as the Orange Jesus would say.

But not only.
Invasion in the dictionary also says, to come in a rush, or uninvited. That is the southern border. Forget that part Jines?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
But not only.
Invasion in the dictionary also says, to come in a rush, or uninvited. That is the southern border. Forget that part Jines?

. . . what is a more apropos use of a term . . . "insurrection" for the events of January 6 or "invasion" for the events at the border?

Ahhh, both. It is not a one or the other question.

The border situation is ridiculous but to characterize it as an “invasion” is just plain hyperbole.

It is defined as such in the dictionary.
Why are all the plants, insects and fish called invasive species? If they came here unwelcomed, it is called invasive. Better argue with the writers that define words.

We can't call them illegals, we can't call them invaders, we can call them asylum-seekers, we can call them disenfranchised, but we can't call them what they are; they are illegal invaders, and we appear to have no defense against them. Regards, Bill.

Just because it failed, and never could have worked, the Jan 6 people were still insurrectionists. Just as the southern border is an invasion, Bill. Not a hostile one, like the Ukraine has, but an invasion by proper usage of the word none the less. If people are offended by the word, thats a "them" problem. The use of the word invasion is correctly used.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Ahhh, both. It is not a one or the other question.

THIS!

. . . then I guess January 6 was both an invasion and an insurrection.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Just because it failed, and never could have worked, the Jan 6 people were still insurrectionists. Just as the southern border is an invasion, Bill. Not a hostile one, like the Ukraine has, but an invasion by proper usage of the word none the less. If people are offended by the word, thats a "them" problem. The use of the word invasion is correctly used.

According to Webster and common understanding the word invasion is not correct application.
https://www.merriam-webster.co...try%20for%20conquest

Copy and paste from above.

an act of invading
especially : entrance of an army into a country for conquest

In a broader sense of the word, "invasion" would be an apt description of what's happening under the current open-border policies.

LHeym, your definition uses the word "especially"in referring to an invasion of an army for conquest, which is usually a signal that there are alternative meanings of a word.

Click the link.

It gives various uses from common the medical.

I do not consider it an invasion as invasion to my mind requires a penetration by an army for conquest.

Now, if folks want to apply this definition, “ the incoming or spread of something usually hurtful.” I cannot stop them.

I doubt if we consult federal caselaw that what we’re seeing would be defined in legal terms as an invasion.

5th Circuit today again blocked Texas law on arresting and prosecuting migrants holding the powers is reserved x to the Federal Government. The opinion did have the caveat “most likely.”


According, to Webster the word comes to us as follows:

Middle English invasioun "assault, attack," borrowed from Anglo-French invasion, envasioun, borrowed from Late Latin invāsiōn-, invāsiō "attack, taking possession by violence," from Latin invādere "to enter with hostile intent, assault, attack" + -tiōn-, -tiō, suffix of verbal action — more at INVADE

Thus, the more narrow definition I am using is more accurate. That assumes one accepts Webster as authoritative. In absence of caselaw defining otherwise, I consider Webster authoritative.

Again, if you do not like the word to describe the border, it's your problem.
To invade someones privacy does not mean an army. Invasive species does not mean an army.
You can stick "case law" where the sun dont shine. It has nothing to do with how a word is defined.
Invasion is also coming in unwelcome or by crowding, by definition.

Point is . . . one more time . . . that the folks that love to characterize the border situation as an “invasion” are the same folks that love to argue that what happened on January 6 was not an “insurrection”. Just be intellectually honest.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Again, if you do not like the word to describe the border, it's your problem.
To invade someones privacy does not mean an army. Invasive species does not mean an army.
You can stick "case law" where the sun dont shine. It has nothing to do with how a word is defined.
Invasion is also coming in unwelcome or by crowding, by definition.

Accept you do not get to define the word. The word has meaning that existed long before. See my post above.

I cannot make anyone accept a definition. However, between you and Webster, I’ll accept Webster and what it says the words means with the rationale Webster applies. Again, see above.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Again, if you do not like the word to describe the border, it's your problem.
To invade someones privacy does not mean an army. Invasive species does not mean an army.
You can stick "case law" where the sun dont shine. It has nothing to do with how a word is defined.
Invasion is also coming in unwelcome or by crowding, by definition.

Accept you do not get to define the word. The word has meaning that existed long before. See my post above.

I cannot make anyone accept a definition. However, between you and Webster, I’ll accept Webster and what it says the words means with the rationale Webster applies. Again, see above.

How would you describe the border situation?

“Cluster fuck” seems pretty appropriate, and much more accurate than an “invasion”.

quote:

Originally posted by zebrazapper:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Again, if you do not like the word to describe the border, it's your problem.
To invade someones privacy does not mean an army. Invasive species does not mean an army.
You can stick "case law" where the sun dont shine. It has nothing to do with how a word is defined.
Invasion is also coming in unwelcome or by crowding, by definition.

Accept you do not get to define the word. The word has meaning that existed long before. See my post above.

I cannot make anyone accept a definition. However, between you and Webster, I’ll accept Webster and what it says the words means with the rationale Webster applies. Again, see above.

How would you describe the border situation?

I would describe it as politically manufactured disfunction.

A homemade shit sandwich if you will, and we're all going to have to take a bite.


.

I have no issue with the word crisis if we have to limit ourselves to superficial construct of a complicated issue.

More directly, I see it as a failure of the House GOP and President Trump party to work in good faith to help correct, at least make better, the issue. I do not have a single word for that.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
I have no issue with the word crisis if we have to limit ourselves to superficial construct of a complicated issue.

More directly, I see it as a failure of the House GOP and President Trump party to work in good faith to help correct, at least make better, the issue. I do not have a single word for that.

Obstruction

Having the job of policing AR does not mean you get to police dictionaries.
When you get the Cambridge
the Oxford
Free dictionary.com
to change to only one meaning of the word, I'll accept it.
While you are working on that, emperor Heym.
Make sure they change the definition of Lead verb and lead noun.
Cant be having more than one meaning per word according to our resident narcissist.

Like I said you can use the word however you want.

That does not change the fact your usage is not supported and not authoritative.

Between you and Webster, I’ll accept Webster’s definition and how Webster says the word developed which does not encompass your usage.

As I dont believe a word emperor Heym says anymore.
Jines, is invasion of privacy defined as illegal or unwelcome access to? Or is it, Crisis policy created by Republicans in congress, privacy?
Why are plants and creatures that are not here legally, invasive? Is there only a hostile military usage of the word, like junior claims, in the courtroom?

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
As I dont believe a word emperor Heym says anymore.
Jines, is invasion of privacy defined as illegal or unwelcome access to? Or is it, Crisis policy created by Republicans in congress, privacy?
Why are plants and creatures that are not here legally, invasive? Is there only a hostile military usage of the word, like junior claims, in the courtroom?

Tony, to be fair, you have to admit that the use of the word by the republicans and the right-wing media is designed to be inflammatory and to paint the immigrants as some sort of a threat to the country.

Did you see that the construction workers on that bridge in Baltimore that collapsed into the river were all "invaders"?

https://apnews.com/article/bal...48c635549ef1845c6d22

I will freely admit that Mike.
But to say the words are incorrect by definition is wrong.
As I have said many times here. I have emotional detatchment. Feelings, are not part of my day to day life, I dont have them. I go by the black and white of things. I have a moral compass. And it is to bad about the workers. They were here illegally, but had work permits from ... (the city?) and that is good enough for me.

Turns out all six that went into the river were immigrants.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/28...-analysis/index.html

"All of those missing were immigrants, outsiders who had come to the US from Central America for a better life. Their stories and aspirations mirrored the lives of millions of new entrants to the United States. They are far more representative of the migrant population than the extreme and misleading picture often spouted about migrants by Donald Trump. The Republican presumptive nominee often falsely claims foreign countries are sending their “worst people” as a de-facto invasion force to the US. “Under Biden, other countries are emptying out their prisons, insane asylums, mental institutions, dumping everyone including mass numbers of terrorists into our country. They’re in our country now,” Trump said at a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire, ahead of the state’s presidential primary in January.

These businesses say they can’t keep up with consumer demand without immigrant workers. Americans just don’t want the jobs
Trump’s demonization of immigrants who are trying to cross into the country illegally, who he claims are “poisoning the blood” of the country, often feels like a shorthand condemnation of migrants as a whole.

The bodies of two of the six construction workers who died after a cargo ship hit a pillar of the bridge have been recovered. Search efforts have been paused for the four other workers, who are presumed dead.

One of the workers is father-of-three Miguel Luna, from El Salvador, who lived in Maryland for 19 years. Maynor Yassir Suazo Sandoval, a Honduran father of two, was also on the bridge. He has lived in the US for 18 years and has an 18-year-old son and a 5-year-old daughter. Two Guatemalans are also missing. And three Mexicans were among the crew working on the bridge. One was rescued from the frigid waters below.

Often, migrants do jobs that other people don’t want to do – the ones with the lowest wages and the worst conditions. Some do so to support families in the US and to lay the foundation of better lives for their children and grandchildren. Many send money home to support relatives who live in far less affluent economies. Mexican immigrant workers for instance transferred more than $60 billion in remittances to their country in 2023, according to Mexico’s central bank.

The sacrifices of those missing might be worth remembering when the anti-immigrant rhetoric cranks up again in the run-up to November’s presidential election.

And when the Francis Scott Key Bridge rises again, it’s a good bet it will be immigrants who are building it.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Point is . . . one more time . . . that the folks that love to characterize the border situation as an “invasion” are the same folks that love to argue that what happened on January 6 was not an “insurrection”. Just be intellectually honest.

what is that phrase ME loves to throw around, after you taught it him? false equivalency? there's more illegals coming over EVERYDAY, than "visited" the capital on jan 6...

sort of like "ya'll" screaming "false equivalency" when comparing JUST portland to the INVASION, LOOTING, AND ARSON that happened in the cap BEFORE jan 6th ...

dudes, IDGAF what you call jan 6, but use the same measurement on your side, and call it the same ... otherwise it's just blatant hypocrazy (spelling intended)