I haven't seen that term in print before seeing it in this article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...1deb7e962f510&ei=139

Another Bizarre Opening Prayer at Trump Rally in Iowa
Story by Ron Filipkowski • 17h

Trump rallies always kick off with an opening prayer from a local Pastor. They are rarely non-political, and often weave christian nationalist themes into cultish worship with Trump as if he is the new messiah.

At today's Trump rally in Waterloo, Iowa, Pastor Joshua Graber from the Cornerstone Baptist Church in Vinton, IA, came out with his prayer which largely involved asking God to intervene to help Donald Trump defeat his enemies.

This is Christo-Trumpism.

"We pray that you will impart wisdom to our president as he goes forth to stand in our place. We ask that those who stand against him be put to silence. That those horrendous actions against him and his family be exposed and struck down.

When we leave this place, give us the courage to say no to evil ... Give us the courage to stand with President Trump in the caucuses and the election to come. We ask for your guidance, wisdom and power. In Jesus's almighty and powerful name, Amen."

There are several videos in the article as examples of the author's point.

One that's not there, which is one of my favorites, is this one:

Paula White, former spiritual advisor - Trump Admin

https://youtu.be/7DlRueGU1AU?si=OhnFvQFjY5Lf2AIT

Another:

https://youtu.be/iHqohI-ZNhY?si=03MTLNY8LvCNrSNT

Is Jesus Too Woke For Modern Christianity? | It Seems Most Believers Would Rather Follow Trump

https://youtu.be/OzZv7rPSoD0?si=uL2PJnLs1BcsYH2T


Wikipedia definitions:

Trumpism is the political ideologies, social emotions, style of governance, political movement, and set of mechanisms for autocratization and authoritarianism that are associated with 45th U.S. president Donald Trump and his political base.

Christian fascism is a term which is used to describe a far-right political ideology that denotes an intersection between fascism and Christianity. It is sometimes referred to as "Christofascism", a neologism which was coined in 1970 by the liberation theologian Dorothee Sölle.

Christofascism "disposed or allowed Christians, to impose themselves not only upon other religions but other cultures, and political parties which do not march under the banner of the final, normative, victorious Christ" – as Paul F. Knitter describes Sölle's view.

Christian nationalism is a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity, in which the end goal is to achieve an absolute Christian theocracy within a society. It primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating civil and criminal laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion in political and social life.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...7b69738f7190bd&ei=18

Related Video: https://www.msn.com/en-us/vide...cid=socialshare&t=71

This story originally appeared in Los Angeles Times.

Here's how we know the Republican Party has become an autocratic movement
Opinion by Stuart Stevens • 4h

(Stuart Stevens is an advisor to the Lincoln Project, a political consultant and the author of several books. This article is an adapted excerpt from his latest book, “The Conspiracy to End America: Five Ways My Old Party Is Driving Our Democracy to Autocracy,” which will be published Oct. 10.)

It’s often said that Donald Trump has a cultlike following. But that’s far too benign.

“Star Wars” has a cultlike following. Taylor Swift has her cult of “Swifties.” A political organization that has no platform other than loyalty to the leader is not a cult, it’s an autocratic movement.

The tragicomic chaos in the House in the last week is the natural result of a political party that has lived under Trump’s thumb. It should end any pretense that the current Republican Party is a serious governing party.

As Hannah Arendt wrote in “The Origins of Totalitarianism”: “Total loyalty is possible only when fidelity is emptied of all concrete content, from which changes of mind might naturally arise. The totalitarian movements, each in its own way, have done their utmost to get rid of the party programs which specified concrete content and which they inherited from earlier, non‑totalitarian stages of development.”

It seems like another time in another galaxy, but not that long ago there actually was some ideological diversity within the Republican Party.

In 1966, Time ran a cover story highlighting the winners of the 1966 midterm elections as a “Republican Resurgence,” after the Goldwater defeat of 1964. Time’s editors selected six Republicans as being emblematic of this rebirth: California Gov. Ronald Reagan, Michigan Gov. George Romney, Illinois Sen. Charles Percy, Oregon Sen. Mark Hatfield, Massachusetts Sen. Edward Brooke and New York Gov. Nelson Rockefeller.
The six governors and senators had differences of opinion on almost all major issues. Hatfield, deeply influenced by his service in World War II, never voted for a bill to authorize U.S. military engagement. He was one of only two Republican senators who voted against the 1991 Gulf War.

With Sen. George McGovern, Hatfield co-sponsored 1971 legislation calling for a complete withdrawal from Vietnam. Reagan, on the other hand, was consistently supportive of the Vietnam War and campaigned against the creation of Medicaid.

In the 1990s and early 2000s, the Republican governors who were pro-choice governed states with a larger collective population than the Republican antiabortion governors. Bill Weld of Massachusetts, Pennsylvania’s Tom Ridge, Arnold Schwarzenegger in California and New York’s George Pataki all were proudly pro-choice.

Today, there are no Republican governors who support abortion rights, and many are actively working to criminalize abortions in their states. The Republican Party three decades ago was overwhelmingly a white-dominated party, but it allowed for at least some dissent and disagreement.

While it is difficult to attribute any deliberate or methodical plan to Donald Trump, whose mind operates like an old-fashioned pinball machine on tilt, his basic antidemocratic, strongman instincts have crushed dissent in the Republican Party, empowering the underlying authoritarian impulses within the party. A once-center-right political party with core ideological principles is now marching toward the formation of an autocratic state.

It’s possible that Trump will not be the Republican nominee in 2024, but his success in molding the party to his image ensures that anyone who wins will continue down an authoritarian path.

When Ron DeSantis ran for governor of Florida in 2018, he aired a commercial showing his toddler daughter building a border wall with toy blocks, followed by a shot of him holding his infant son and reading from a book, “Then Mr. Trump said, ‘You’re fired.’” His wife also appeared in the ad, saying, “People say Ron is all Trump, but he is so much more.”

What’s unfolding in the Republican Party is an inevitable step in the cycle of authoritarian movements. What once was deemed sufficiently pure is judged to be inadequate and in need of purging.

The Night of the Long Knives, the murder of Leon Trotsky, the Red Guards, the Khmer Rouge — each was the result of a radical movement further purifying its core membership and ideology, and something very similar is taking place among today’s Republicans.

When Trump emerged in 2015, he was initially rejected by Republican voters. In May 2015, Donald Trump polled at 3% among Republicans and Republican-leaning independent voters. While it’s not unusual for a new and still-unknown candidate to start with a low number, Trump had almost a 100% name recognition among potential voters.

Republicans knew who he was; they just didn’t like him. A May 2015 Washington Post–ABC News poll found that just over 20% of Republicans viewed Trump favorably. By early December 2015 — and after his attack on John McCain’s war record, his mocking of a disabled reporter and his calling for a Muslim ban — Trump had surged to his largest lead during the Republican primary, opening up a 35%-to-16% margin over Ted Cruz.

Jeb Bush, who led the field in early polling, was by then at the same 3% level of support that Trump had in May. The media coverage of Trump’s rise evidenced an unwillingness to grasp Trump’s appeal. “Donald Trump Leads Florida Polls, Despite Call for Muslim Travel Ban” was the headline in the New Times Broward–Palm Beach. “Trump Poll Surge Continues Despite Backlash Over Muslim Ban,” trumpeted the Dec. 10, 2015, broadcast of Voice of America News.

This was like reporting that Jim Beam sold a lot of bourbon even though it contained alcohol. Trump was rising with Republican voters because of his racism and religious bigotry.

There was no backlash with the majority of Republican primary voters. The exact opposite was occurring. Trump’s hate was creating a surge of appeal.

Donald Trump understood the true nature of the Republican Party better than the party’s leaders. “This suggestion is completely and totally inconsistent with American values,” then-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said as he denounced Trump’s proposed Muslim ban. “I do not think it is reflective of our principles, not just as a party but as a country,” then-House Speaker Paul Ryan said of the ban.

But it was his call for a Muslim ban that helped Trump clinch the 2016 nomination. McConnell and Ryan and the establishment donor class of the Republican Party would never admit publicly that the xenophobia and racism that appealed to Trump voters were far more motivating to Republican voters than the small-government, low-taxes, constitutionally conservative so‑called “values” they insisted were the true core of the party.

But their commitment to their deeply held beliefs was so weak that they now supported a man who bragged he was “the king of debt,” refused to release his tax returns to show he even paid taxes and whose Muslim ban was a religious test that was anathema to constitutional principles.

They didn’t care about anything but remaining in power, and they thought they could use Trump while controlling him.

There is a childlike need for many Republicans in what was once “the establishment” to believe that the Trump years were some aberration, that the party was “hijacked” by Donald Trump. The problem with this is that the passengers on the hijacked plane do not cheer for the terrorist. But in the Republican Party, the hijacker is the most popular person on the plane.

Trump and Trumpism dominate the Republican Party because he represents what the Republican Party wants to be. There is no “normal” for the party to return to. It is an autocratic movement, not a traditional American political party. To believe this movement cannot win and end democracy as we know it would be as dangerously naive as thinking that the Donald Trump who announced his candidacy in 2015 with 3% of support within the party could never be elected president.

None of us can choose history, but history can choose us. The fate of the American experiment is in our hands. America or Trump? The next 13 months will decide our future.

https://youtu.be/uocsL3kfvAg?si=g4Ae-dL2EQNnZbwL

"Prequel" and fascism in America

"This story was also brilliantly told in the Ken Burns documentary “The US and the Holocaust”. Americans never learned the bad things about American history and are doomed to repeat them"

I don’t know you from Adam but you seem like a village idiot ME

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
I don’t know you from Adam but you seem like a village idiot ME

Nah, M.E. is cool.
He's done some cool gun stuff, been some cool places. M.E. has had some different experiences than some of us and come to some different conclusions than some of us and that seems ok to me.

I think M.E. is the "in" crowd around here.

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
I don’t know you from Adam but you seem like a village idiot ME

He made an extensive set of observations and you responded like.....a village idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
I don’t know you from Adam but you seem like a village idiot ME

He made an extensive set of observations and you responded like.....a village idiot.

Well then, my observation from this forum and you all are more then welcome to say the same thing about me
As I said, I don’t know him from Adam and I also doubt many of you read his drivel…racism, nazism…

I read a lot of stuff. Some drivel. Some make sense to me. Some stand out. I even read and sometimes listen to Fox News, not that I believe them but to know the latest BS they are spewing. Sometimes they surprise me with something that resembles truth. I have posted links to Fox articles and videos. Anyway, I screen for credible, relevant content, and of course it's IMO, or affirmation, but generally it has to be something that I didn't already know or assimilate. I seldom cut & paste the whole article unless I think it's exceptional and very relevant. Of course, I also post opinion articles, but they have to be well founded and the author has done his homework.

Of course, you can choose to read it or not, agree is optional too. But maybe it contributes to a knowledge base. You can just dismiss my posts, but my hope is that at least the content is worth considering especially for those who can be open minded or at least entertained.

The last post above with the link to a youtube video of an interview with Rachel Maddow is especially interesting because of the history that probably most of us have forgotten.

I can't put together words as well as these professionals nor do the background research or have the knowledge they do.

Spouting an opinion herein with little or no backup IMO is like farting in the wind.

My only problem with ME is that half of every Post he makes is a wall of meaningless drivel.

Fundamentally, anyone who confabulates religion with a political agenda is missing sight of what both are and are not.

Are there religious folks who see what is going on and feel so strongly that anything that opposes one side is better? Sure. Kind of like the view that anything is justifiable that gets rid of Trump.

If your mental gymnastics get you to think Trump is Christ-like in any particular, I would strongly advise re-reading the Bible. Both old and New Testament.

It’s there in black and white.

If your view of Christ is such that you feel one side of the other requires you to take a stand is very different than conflating Christianity with Trump.

There is an “in crowd” here?

Near as I can tell, at this time there are 2, Saeed and Don…. Neither of whom seem to take themselves too seriously…

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Bivoj:
I don’t know you from Adam but you seem like a village idiot ME

Nah, M.E. is cool.
He's done some cool gun stuff, been some cool places. M.E. has had some different experiences than some of us and come to some different conclusions than some of us and that seems ok to me.

I think M.E. is the "in" crowd around here.

quote:

Nah, M.E. is cool

perhaps ,
if you define cool in Timothy Leary sort of way

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Fundamentally, anyone who confabulates religion with a political agenda is missing sight of what both are and are not.

Are there religious folks who see what is going on and feel so strongly that anything that opposes one side is better? Sure. Kind of like the view that anything is justifiable that gets rid of Trump.

If your mental gymnastics get you to think Trump is Christ-like in any particular, I would strongly advise re-reading the Bible. Both old and New Testament.

It’s there in black and white.

If your view of Christ is such that you feel one side of the other requires you to take a stand is very different than conflating Christianity with Trump.

Well, this is getting interesting. I do appreciate the feedback, BTW. I'm not offended. I chose Butler's post just as an example.

I had to look up the word "confabulates" just to be sure. Thanks for refreshing that word in my vocabulary. I saw one of those yard signs yesterday, which reminded me that I've seen them before. It said "Vote the Bible". I'm not the one who "confabulates" religion and politics. I'm just pointing out that it is a significant part of GOPerism.

One thing that I note, regarding feedback, is don't focus on the messenger. Focus on the message.

As to the rest of your post, I'm not sure that I agree or disagree. Somehow Christianity has been conflated with Trumpism by a lot of people. That's what I'm addressing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
My only problem with ME is that half of every Post he makes is a wall of meaningless drivel.

Which half? Let me know and I'll mend my ways.

I'm surprised at you. I figured those who just didn't read much would make the drivel claim.

Sometimes quips are sufficient, sometimes not.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:

quote:

Nah, M.E. is cool

perhaps ,
if you define cool in Timothy Leary sort of way

You are cool too, in a Ted Nugent way.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
My only problem with ME is that half of every Post he makes is a wall of meaningless drivel.

Which half? Let me know and I'll mend my ways.

I'm surprised at you. I figured those who just didn't read much would make the drivel claim.

Sometimes quips are sufficient, sometimes not.

Ain't nobody here got to try to suit me, I'm just a cantankerous old fart who's come to hate Republicans and what they want to do to my Country.

Well, that's a mighty Liberal thing to say.

BTW, you and I have a lot in common, not only old fart but views too.

But, I don't hate Republicans. I loathe what they do and represent, and their alt-reality.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...6c303b4381b29f&ei=64

Ramping up his Fascist re-education of Americans': Expert issues dire warning on Trump

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...167d321cb4d4cd&ei=19

Why Trump and the GOP are burning the entire system down
Opinion by Thom Hartmann • 3h

I have to say, I have been constantly amazed at how people I have known for most of my life, educated people, people with life experience similar to my own, would be so taken in by the Trump schtick. I don't know how many actually equate Trump to the Messiah, but I suspect some do.
How can anyone possibly say Donald Trump is the greatest president the US has ever had? Nonetheless, many do say this.
Of course, there are others who say Joe Biden is an excellent president and Kamala Harris is superbly qualified and competent.
The big difference is that to equate Trump with Jesus Christ is lunacy, along with stupidity; while considering Joe and Kamala to be competent is just stupidity.
Honestly, I have trouble seeing which ideology, left or right is the most potentially damaging, but neither side has the interest of the country at heart. Both exist only to serve their own ideology. Regards, Bill.

quote:

ideology

I'm thinking about your post.

Here's a key phrase:

Quote: "Honestly, I have trouble seeing which ideology, left or right is the most potentially damaging, but neither side has the interest of the country at heart. Both exist only to serve their own ideology."

Answering the "most potentially damaging" and "interest of the country at heart" questions should be easy.

All one needs to do is look at the definitions below, etc., especially the definition of Trumpism and Progressivism, and think about the evidence of how the definitions reflect the reality of what's happening.

I looked up a few words even though I thought I already knew the definitions. For simplicity all definitions are from Wikipedia. I didn't post all the links. You can look them up for yourself to confirm or for further reading.

I chose these words because I was looking for ideas on how to address your concerns in your post. I don't know how to boil it down except to say that any party that would let (or invite) someone like Trump gain control and power over them, and the rest of us indirectly, is not a party that can be trusted, no matter what their traditional values were. They can say all they want, but Trump having them and us indirectly by the balls speaks everything one needs to know.

===========================================

An ideology is a set of beliefs or philosophies attributed to a person or group of persons, especially those held for reasons that are not purely epistemic, in which "practical elements are as prominent as theoretical ones." Formerly applied primarily to economic, political, or religious theories and policies, in a tradition going back to Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, more recent use treats the term as mainly condemnatory.

======================================

Epistemic:

Philosophers differentiate the meanings of epistemic and epistemological. Broadly, epistemic means “relating to knowledge itself”[2] (see sense 1), and epistemological means “relating to the study or theory of various aspects of knowledge”.[3] Nonetheless, in general usage epistemic is also sometimes used as a synonym of epistemological (see sense 3) and vice versa, and thus the terms epistemic crisis, epistemologic crisis, and epistemological crisis are synonymous, referring to a crisis of community members with an impaired level of shared perceptions of reality, that is, an excessive level of disagreement on what is real or fake, or what is existing or illusory.

======================================

Epistemic Crisis:
A crisis in which the normal competition between epistemic regimes or components thereof crescendoes to the extent that peoples, nations, or other human groups either lose their sense that they share perceptions of common reality or pretend to lose it for purposes of tactical or strategic feint in a power struggle.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and...ica-epistemic-crisis

America is facing an epistemic crisis
What if Mueller proves his case and it doesn’t matter?

By David Roberts@drvolts Nov 2, 2017, 8:40am EDT

This article was written before the Mueller Report was finished. However, the points he made are applicable today with the indictments of Trump. Same play-book, same narratives and ploys, ramped up a lot, and may be effective.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and...ica-epistemic-crisis

======================================

Progressivism holds that it is possible to improve human societies through political reform. As a political movement, progressivism seeks to advance the human condition through social reform based on purported advancements in science, technology, economic development, and social organization.[1] Adherents hold that progressivism has universal application and endeavor to spread this idea to human societies everywhere. Progressivism arose during the Age of Enlightenment out of the belief that civility in Europe was improving due to the application of new empirical knowledge to the governance of society.[2]

In modern political discourse, progressivism gets often associated with social liberalism,[3][4][5] a left-leaning type of liberalism, in contrast to the right-leaning neoliberalism,[6] combining support for a mixed economy with cultural liberalism.[7]

There is an article about progressivism in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...in_the_United_States

Here's an article that explains what progressivism is and what we have today instead:

Trumpism: a disfigured Americanism

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0170-0

nature humanities and social sciences communications

=============================================

Trumpism is the political ideologies, social emotions, style of governance,[7] political movement, and set of mechanisms for autocratization and authoritarianism[8][9][10][11][12] that are associated with 45th U.S. president Donald Trump and his political base.[13][14] Trumpists and Trumpian are terms used to refer to those exhibiting characteristics of Trumpism. Certain characteristics within public relations and Trump's political base have exhibited symptoms of a cult of personality.[15][16][17]

The precise composition of Trumpism is contentious and is sufficiently complex to overwhelm any single framework of analysis

=================================================

Conservativism is more difficult to define, IMO.

But here's a go at it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism#

Conservatism is a cultural, social, and political philosophy that seeks to promote and to preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values.[1][2][3] The central tenets of conservatism may vary in relation to the culture and civilization in which it appears. In Western culture, depending on the particular nation, conservatives seek to promote a range of social institutions such as the nuclear family, organized religion, the military, property rights, and monarchy. Conservatives tend to favour institutions and practices that guarantee social order and that evolved gradually.[3] Adherents of conservatism often oppose certain aspects of modernity (for example mass culture and secularism) and seek a return to traditional values, though different groups of conservatives may choose different traditional values to preserve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...sm#Conscientiousness

Psychology, Conscientiousness, Authoritarianism, Ambiguity tolerance–intolerance
(In 1973, British psychologist Glenn Wilson published an influential book providing evidence that a general factor underlying conservative beliefs is "fear of uncertainty."[230] A meta-analysis of research literature by Jost, Glaser, Kruglanski, and Sulloway in 2003 found that many factors, such as intolerance of ambiguity and need for cognitive closure, contribute to the degree of one's political conservatism and its manifestations in decision-making) Social dominance orientation, Happiness.

But Conservativism is a broad topic with many variations and branches of definitions and research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ologies#Conservatism

Read as you wish.

=============================================

So, my point is that the old definitions of "Ideology" are insufficient, IMO.

Conservativism doesn't mean what it used to mean.

Liberalism doesn't mean what conservatives think and say it means.

I realize that the militias such as Proud Boyz, etc. are not representative of conservativism, nor are BLM, Antifa etc., representative of liberalism.

I have always viewed liberalism and progressivism as synonymous. Maybe it isn't.

So, this isn't about just Trump or Biden.

No, it isn't about Trump and Biden at all. It is about the breakdown of our society which allows the perversion of both conservatism and liberalism. Trump and Biden, and the inability of the opposing factions to see their flaws, are symptoms of the breakdown, not the cause. Regards, Bill.

ID the perversions - therein is the answer.

I can easily ID the perversions of Trumpism, compared to traditional conservativism, and you can probably do that too.

I can't ID the perversions of progressivism. There are at least two reasons. One is what the Right says about it is a big lie, too many lies, IMO, and two, I rate the perversions on a likely to happen scale, or general party consensus. Whatever perversions are on the left, none are likely to happen, or affect the country like Rightist fascism would. The Right's perversions are happening right now.

Perversions:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...45bd2003fc6c71&ei=32

Mike Flynn holds MAGA 'doomsday prophecy' gathering: 'Everything you believe in is right'
Story by Matthew Chapman • 7h

The far-right conspiracy theory retreat headlined by a former Donald Trump official in the Nevada desert called for executions of Trump supporters' enemies and proclaimed the former president to have been anointed by God to cleanse the land, reported the Los Angeles Times on Thursday.

"Helmed by retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn — a supporter of the former president and a key figure in efforts to overturn the 2020 election — and Clay Clark, an Oklahoma entrepreneur and podcaster, the whirlwind event melds the MAGA movement, election denial, QAnon conspiracy theories and doomsday prophecy," reported Sarah D. Wire.

Held in August right near Las Vegas, the two-day festival, billed as a church revival, "featured nearly 70 speakers who preached that vaccines are poisonous and will bring about the end of the world, that a cabal of global leaders is engaged in child sex trafficking and that the 2020 election was stolen."

The LA Times article:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...45bd2003fc6c71&ei=36

At far-right roadshow, Trump is God's 'anointed one,' QAnon is king, and 'everything you believe is right'
Story by Sarah D. Wire • 12h

Nearby, Christian rock blared from a large tent where pastors standing before the main stage prayed and laid hands on attendees of the ReAwaken America Tour, a far-right religious roadshow now in its third year.

Helmed by retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn — a supporter of the former president and a key figure in efforts to overturn the 2020 election — and Clay Clark, an Oklahoma entrepreneur and podcaster, the whirlwind event melds the MAGA movement, election denial, QAnon conspiracy theories and doomsday prophecy.

The two-day church revival held in August just outside Las Vegas featured nearly 70 speakers who preached that vaccines are poisonous and will bring about the end of the world, that a cabal of global leaders is engaged in child sex trafficking and that the 2020 election was stolen.

Through it all was an apocalyptic drumbeat that the country will be destroyed if Trump doesn't become president again. God wants him to win in 2024, speakers proclaimed to their audience, and as Christians they have been called upon to ensure he does.

"We know the one in charge up above, and I can tell you that I believe that he has his hand now on Donald Trump, that no weapon formed against him shall prosper," Trump's daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, told the crowd. "God is a part of this race. I'm telling you guys this. I feel it deep down inside."

Thousands have attended ReAwaken America on its dozens of stops across the country. Clark began the tour in 2021 to protest COVID-19 public health restrictions, and with Flynn’s help it has gained a reputation for promoting Christian nationalist beliefs alongside right-wing conspiracy theories.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...45bd2003fc6c71&ei=68

Recovering from COVID-19, the “Killers of the Flower Moon” star wrote down his feelings and had ex-Trump administration official Miles Taylor read them at the New York City gathering.

De Niro’s basic message: Trump’s not bad, he’s evil. And the film legend delivered it eloquently with a nod to his career playing several hoodlums and meeting a few real ones.

“I’ve spent a lot of time studying bad men. I’ve examined their characteristics, their mannerisms, the utter banality of their cruelty,” De Niro said in the statement. “Yet there’s something different about Donald Trump. When I look at him, I don’t see a bad man. Truly. I see an evil one.”

De Niro continued, “He’s a wannabe tough guy with no morals or ethics. No sense of right or wrong. No regard for anyone but himself — not the people he was supposed to lead and protect.”

“Democracy won’t survive the return of a wannabe dictator,” De Niro said. “And it won’t overcome evil if we are divided.”

He wrote that the solution to bridging the gap is reaching out to Trump supporters.
“They’re not stupid, and we must not condemn them for making a stupid choice,” he said. “Our future doesn’t just depend on us. It depends on them.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...45bd2003fc6c71&ei=78

The horrible price of lies, paranoia and distrust | Opinion
Story by Robert Reich • 10h

It has been a horrific week. The gruesome slayings of Israelis by Hamas militants are ricocheting around the world, testing the skeins of civility even on the streets of New York. Meanwhile, Putin’s brutality continues to wrench the heart of Europe.

America’s capacity to govern itself is also being tested. The U.S. House of Representatives continues without a speaker — the person essential for the chamber (and therefore much of the rest of government) to function, and who is next in line after the vice president in presidential succession.

Yesterday, Steve Scalise narrowly won his party’s nomination — but not by enough votes to cinch the job without votes by Democrats, who under no circumstances would (or should) vote for someone as speaker who refused to certify Biden as president.

The House will reconvene today, though no votes are scheduled, suggesting that Scalise is still trying to win support from the backers of Jim Jordan, the other leading Republican candidate for speaker (who also refused to certify Biden).

Trump endorsed Jordan in the current speaker contest, so presumably much of what Scalise is doing today is trying to negotiate with Trump and his allies and surrogates.

Let’s be clear. Neither Scalise nor Jordan rises to even Kevin McCarthy’s low threshold of competence or concern for the public good.

Both voted against certifying Biden president, both opposed Biden’s request for additional military aid to Ukraine, and both are threatening to shut down the government on November 17 if they don’t get whatever House Republicans demand.

A shutdown would imperil the well-being of tens of millions of Americans.

In late September, Trump urged House Republicans to shut the government if they weren’t able to defund Trump’s criminal trials. “Republicans in Congress can and must defund all aspects of Crooked Joe Biden’s weaponized Government,” Trump wrote on his Truth Social media site, calling it “the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other Patriots.”

I thought of Trump and this mash of self-serving Republicans when I read Israeli historian Yuval Noah Narari’s piece in yesterday’s Washington Post, seeking to explain why Israel was unprepared for Saturday’s onslaught.

Narari wrote that Israel has been:

“governed by a populist strongman … who is a public-relations genius but an incompetent prime minister. He has repeatedly preferred his personal interests over the national interest and has built his career on dividing the nation against itself. He has appointed people to key positions based on loyalty more than qualifications, took credit for every success while never taking responsibility for failures, and seemed to give little importance to either telling or hearing the truth.

The coalition [he] established has been by far the worst. It is an alliance of messianic zealots and shameless opportunists, who ignored [the nation’s] many problems — including the deteriorating security situation — and focused instead on grabbing unlimited power for themselves. In pursuit of this goal, they adopted extremely divisive policies, spread outrageous conspiracy theories about state institutions that oppose their policies, and labeled the country’s serving elites as “deep state” traitors.”

The point is this: Whether named Netanyahu, Trump, or Putin, when authoritarian leaders gain power by dividing the public, spreading baseless conspiracy theories, and accusing opponents of being “deep state” traitors, they weaken a society’s capacities to protect itself from all sorts of threats.

They undermine the public good, which is the wellspring of a society’s true strength.

Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin have imperiled each of their nations by filling them with lies, paranoia, and distrust.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
No, it isn't about Trump and Biden at all. It is about the breakdown of our society which allows the perversion of both conservatism and liberalism. Trump and Biden, and the inability of the opposing factions to see their flaws, are symptoms of the breakdown, not the cause. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:
ID the perversions - therein is the answer.

I can easily ID the perversions of Trumpism, compared to traditional conservativism, and you can probably do that too.

I can't ID the perversions of progressivism. There are at least two reasons. One is what the Right says about it is a big lie, too many lies, IMO, and two, I rate the perversions on a likely to happen scale, or general party consensus. Whatever perversions are on the left, none are likely to happen, or affect the country like Rightist fascism would. The Right's perversions are happening right now.

Epistemic Crisis is a state of affairs in which people, nations, or other human groups either lose their sense that they share perceptions of common reality or pretend to lose it for purposes of tactical or strategic feint in a power struggle. It is a state of affairs in which partisans disagree not simply on policy, but on facts themselves. Epistemic crisis is characterized by polarization, forking realities, extreme incivility, hostility, and disorientation.

I defined the "state of affairs" for you. I was hoping that you would offer some backup of your claim of both sides' perversions. My above posts are representative of the perversions of the Right.

I disagree with you on the premise that conservatives don't see their flaws. I think they do see, and don't consider them flaws, and actually want what's happening and more. They don't consider it a breakdown but instead the right direction.

If you really believe the "both sides" thing, consider this:

https://youtu.be/oFVuQ0RP_As?si=CaocZdkRhtCbWf7D

Gen. Mark Milley: The 60 Minutes Interview (it's a 13 minute video)

The last word in the above definition of Epistemic Crisis "disorientation" is key. I think many are victims of a manufactured disorientation, an intentional thing. It's been called chaos. One way it can happen is when facts overwhelm one's firmly held beliefs and the internal struggle begins in sorting out the former safe place reality with something new. For many it's not refreshing, but frightening.

One way I can understand it is that my firmly held belief, coincidentally supported by facts, is that Trump is a liar of large degree and harmful significance. Suppose that the facts were persuasive to conclude that all the supposed 30 to 50 thousand lies he's said in just the last 6 years or so were really true. I would be shocked beyond my imagination, because I'm committed to that reality.

I have no doubt that Trump's main thing is manufactured disorientation, and we can see how effective it is.

So, there is the perversion - the big one. When one can acknowledge that, then he will no longer play the "both sides" mental gymnastics.

Another perversion:

Trump tells court he had no duty to ‘support’ the US Constitution in bizarre legal defence
Story by Mike Bedigan •
15h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...179b96bd2ac9ce&ei=65

And more:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...64fa3f16546f41&ei=26

Historian says Trump has been 're-educating' his followers to embrace violence and that Matt Gaetz is now doing the same
Story by insider@insider.com (Charles R. Davis) • 1d

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...64fa3f16546f41&ei=29

A Second American Civil War Has Begun
Story by Peter Suciu • 1h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...64fa3f16546f41&ei=30

Trump's Latest Comments About General Mark Milley Are Telling His Supporters 'Who The Targets Are'
Story by Alec Donaldson • 14h

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...fptaskbarhover&ei=18

Religious cult amasses fortune by feeding right-wingers with conspiracies: report
Story by Matthew Chapman •
2h

ME -
when you, yourself, make the last 7 posts on a topic, others may have moved on

You didn't.

Over 500 views, not all mine, tells me someone is reading my drivel.

Maybe no one has a real argument to make.

Nah, bro.. was reading through the threads that are marked new -- but if you need it, rather than taking a second of self reflection, sure man.. you win

Some have complained that posts about Trump should have their own forum. Instead, mostly when I have something I think is significant about Trump or Trumpism, I just tag it onto a thread I started for those interested. Others can ignore it easier.

I'm courteous that way, and respectful.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...bd3b9d2bae4d43&ei=50

Donald Trump and the exceptions of American evangelicalism
Opinion by Religion News Service
• 3h

As Republicans continue to contend over their party’s presidential nomination — if “contend” is the right word for “jockeying to see who will be the last candidate knocked off by Donald Trump” — Trump himself continues to provide opportunities for white American evangelicals to tell us who they are.

=====================================================

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...bd3b9d2bae4d43&ei=63

A conservative news outlet made millions from conspiracy theories. Now it's going mainstream.
Story by Brandy Zadrozny • 5h