..a few men of principle and character were in politics, and bigots and racists were shut down.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/...0892887348?fs=e&fs=e

Not any more!

That one incident ought to have given every lil' old lady a clue, from Tupelo to Fargo to San Bernardino. But noooo.

Do you want to see what and when Trump decided to run for office?

https://youtu.be/Htt91G2qDwM?si=E0EMYnf6uvN1RkPp

Inside the Night President Obama Took On Donald Trump | The Choice 2016 | FRONTLINE

1.7M views 8 years ago, Sep 22, 2016
Donald Trump was the focus of President Obama’s jokes at the 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner. It was there that Trump resolved to run for president, adviser Roger Stone tells FRONTLINE in “The Choice 2016,” PBS Sept. 27, 2016.
…

https://youtu.be/Ya1Mi9yIJbY?si=mZpfjhqbBiJCBwdF&t=2

Did President Obama's Roast of Trump in 2011 Make Him to Run for President?

The video is no longer available!

Yep, and it was a huge mistake on Obamas part.

Yes he was goaded with the birth certificate thing. But he broke and replied in kind, and partly, this is the result.

quote:

and partly, this is the result

What part? 50%, 75%, 99% ??

Oh, and which qualifies as speech inciting hate, Obama's roast or Trump's birther lies?

Which had more "class"?

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

and partly, this is the result

What part? 50%, 75%, 99% ??

Oh, and which qualifies as speech inciting hate, Obama's roast or Trump's birther lies?

Which had more "class"?

Does it really matter? Id say 99% initially, fading as it got closer to reality and other factors came in.

I didn't know we needed to qualify the difference between trumps and Obamas claims. Obamas were quality humour. I laughed out loud at the time. But the result ended up as it did.

quote:

Originally posted by Tumbleweed:
..a few men of principle and character were in politics, and bigots and racists were shut down.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/...0892887348?fs=e&fs=e

for some followers of the cult of the supreme leader mcain was not enough conservative and let alone what trump said about the man ...

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Yep, and it was a huge mistake on Obamas part.

Yes he was goaded with the birth certificate thing. But he broke and replied in kind, and partly, this is the result.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

and partly, this is the result

What part? 50%, 75%, 99% ??

Oh, and which qualifies as speech inciting hate, Obama's roast or Trump's birther lies?

Which had more "class"?

Does it really matter? Id say 99% initially, fading as it got closer to reality and other factors came in.

I didn't know we needed to qualify the difference between trumps and Obamas claims. Obamas were quality humour. I laughed out loud at the time. But the result ended up as it did.

I don't follow you with this sentence:

"Yes he was goaded with the birth certificate thing. But he broke and replied in kind, and partly, this is the result.""

If you replace "he" with either Trump or Obama, I might understand. Who replied in kind? IMO, neither replied in kind. None of it was humor to Trump.

And no, I don't agree that this is the result. There is/was so much more in the cause and effect.

I was just kinda joking about the percentage, because you said "partly".

I think it's important to see the difference between Obama's roast and Trump's lies with intent and his ego reaction. A roast is traditional in that event, and given the magnitude of Trump's conspiracy theory lie, and the effect it had on true believers, Obama was kind.

Please. Obama wasn't kind. He dismantled trump in front of a live audience, along with Seth? I forget his name, the host.

It was brutal. Was it deserved? Yeah, but it was revenge, hitting exactly at the things that would hurt Trump the most. And it was very successful.

Well, what should Obama have done?

Should he have been more careful with Trump's ego bomb?

At the time no one really predicted that Trump would gain the power for real retribution. Everyone thought the best he could do was lie on the sidelines.

As it turned out, Obama's success with the roast pales in comparison to the success of Trump's lies.

With hindsight/foresight?

It's a pointless position. Whats done is done.

Yes, Shanks. It is what it is.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I've learned my lesson.

I'm just trying to stay somewhat with the theme of the OP.

I figure most people herein and elsewhere know about the water under the bridge, spilt milk, etc., since McCain, using metaphors.

That incident with McCain re the OP, stemmed from Trump's birther lies.

It's been his std M.O. since, with stunning success.

Until that all comes into clear perspective, understanding the present lacks clarity.

I really think much of the Right don't understand how divisive Trump is. And that's giving a lot of benefit of doubt. If they do understand and still support him, That's worse.

Thanks for the honesty.

Im going to give some in return. It may well make me look bad, or not. It's just what Im feeling.

Like many conservative voters, I have a viewpoint. Im further left than many here, for a variety of reasons, and in our elections have not voted for the main right wing party in at least 4 cycles.
I know what Trump is. I know the situation in the US, UK, and here in NZ is volatile.

At the death of Charlie Kirk, I was affected. I made a conscious decision to be conciliatory. To not go to far, or to the edges, and to try and be even in any comment or criticism.

Ive pointed out where I think my friends on the right went too far, and those on the left. Said what I think was wrong with Kirks methods, and where I think he was right or misunderstood. Trying to even things out at this time.

For that I have been called a racist, a liar, Taunted and picked apart. Not by the guys on the right who are feeling it most right now and who might be understandably emotional. But solely from the left. The empathetic ones.

And there is nothing I have said that has been in any way inflammatory or off colour on the issues.

If I was put in a voting position right now, Id likely vote trump. partly in anger and spite, partly at disgust at the left.

Im just an ordinary voter.

Make of that info as you will.

Forgot to put in there, Its often not about the past, the present and future have more impact.

What an inflammatory and self-pitying post! Is that your olive branch?

I too have been called a liar, unjustly, and didn't like it much. No one does. You simply got a taste of your own medicine--a not unwarranted dose.

"Taunted and picked apart"? If you start verbal fights, and aquit yourself poorly, you should expect words that sting.

You are an excitable boy, and shouldn't mix it up if you can't take it. I prefer not to fight with anyone, but you are trying my patience.

You're saying you vote by emotion instead of reason. Go ahead and vote for Trump all you want. I suppose they do have write-in ballots in New Zealand...

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
What an inflammatory and self-pitying post! Is that your olive branch?

I too have been called a liar, unjustly, and didn't like it much. No one does. You simply got a taste of your own medicine--a not unwarranted dose.

"Taunted and picked apart"? If you start verbal fights, and aquit yourself poorly, you should expect words that sting.

You are an excitable boy, and shouldn't mix it up if you can't take it. I prefer not to fight with anyone, but you are trying my patience.

You're saying you vote by emotion instead of reason. Go ahead and vote for Trump all you want. I suppose they do have write-in ballots in New Zealand...

very accurate and realistic post. thank you for this.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
What an inflammatory and self-pitying post! Is that your olive branch?

I too have been called a liar, unjustly, and didn't like it much. No one does. You simply got a taste of your own medicine--a not unwarranted dose.

"Taunted and picked apart"? If you start verbal fights, and aquit yourself poorly, you should expect words that sting.

You are an excitable boy, and shouldn't mix it up if you can't take it. I prefer not to fight with anyone, but you are trying my patience.

You're saying you vote by emotion instead of reason. Go ahead and vote for Trump all you want. I suppose they do have write-in ballots in New Zealand...

Yeah I expected that. Of course you saw the shallow. Of course you'd go back on attack. I knew you would.
You were and are wrong. But explaining why you are wrong in this public forum would be far more incredibly wrong of me. So I will send you a PM.
But right now I guarantee most of those that voted for trump or who agreed with Charlie Kirk are seeing similar on the news platform and social media and it's shaping their thoughts.

On second thoughts, Im just sick of the political forum.

Sick of the misrepresentation, deliberate or not.

Sick of the lies. Sick of the deliberate negative conduct. And sick of the anger I feel when faced with it.

I have enjoyed and learnt a lot from many here, but the downside is way to negative.

I think Im done with it all.

quote:

Sick of the lies. Sick of the deliberate negative conduct.

If you call people liars based on supposition, you should expect negative reactions.

But I'm feeling like you are. Kind of sick of the place. I may take a break.

I was going to reply to your PM but was still thinking about it when you deleted it.

I'll make no bones about it Rolland. You and Medved have shocked me too the core in the last days!

To be pulled up on my use of a term, 'Word salad"

To argue about that. and then next day have it reintroduced sarcastically in the same way, and when I address that, to be told you dont remember the previous days conversation. How does one deal with that?
I can only interpret that as dishonesty and trolling.

To be labelled a racist with no grounds at all, no attempt to prove them, and then label my ire as the problem.

To be repeatedly interpreted as anti trans on no information, even after clarification. Just have the same insinuations made again and again.
Then I sent you that PM, and later thought, Woah! What am I doing? This is a person I dont trust and who dosnt trust me, and I tried to explain my situation to them? Why? So I deleted it hoping you hadn't read it.

After that I looked at the forum, the members representing the left, and realised that I never get drawn into these arguments by a large number. And it's because they dont do these things.
I and they might disagree, but thats it, no misrepresentation, passive aggressive or other trolls to engage you negatively and draw you into an argument or dismiss your opinion.

And yes I recognise I take the bait and handle those where they happen badly.

And I loose sleep over it and carry a bad mood and frustration into my working day and real life. And it's not worth it!

So sadly for me I think I have to leave. Ill take a few days to think over whether I can just hang out in the main forums and not visit this page, and give my contact details too a few who I wish to stay in contact with. But I suspect my love of politics will draw me back and things won't change and so Ill likely make myself delete my account.

You only shorten yourself out Shanks
Advice…don’t argue with people, just put your opinion out
people who like to argue ne call you names are just bots and control freaks and somewhat of a haters
Just laugh at them