Handed to him!

I never believed the West's propaganda before.

And never will either!

Well you have been cheering on Putin for over a year now, why am I not surprised at your reaction?

Of course when you need the West your story will change.

Saeed appears to think Ukraine should be rolling out a red carpet for Putin and his troops instead of fighting for independence, and any fighting they are doing should be with shitty soviet era weapons rather than western supplies ones which actually work.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
Well you have been cheering on Putin for over a year now, why am I not surprised at your reaction?

Of course when you need the West your story will change.

I never cheered Putin, or any deranged idiot who invades other countries.

You lot seem to do that on a regular basis, and continue to get your cowardly arse handed to you!

20 years invading a third world countries.

Ran off with your tails tucked between your rear legs!

How did your little kerfuffle work out in Yemen? Goat herders sent you running...as usual.

"leaked information"is commonly released on purpose to confuse your opponent in a conflict.
A great % of the time it is bogus.
It is so easy these days as any one will print info without any regard for accuracy.
The one to be the first to the press.
Our current media is such a folly from such a perspective.
If I was in the military I would use the hell out of the media or "leaked info". We are out of ammo to bait your opponent.
The idiots in the media can be your best strategic partner.

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
How did your little kerfuffle work out in Yemen? Goat herders sent you running...as usual.

We are all negotiating now.

Didn’t let the stupid Americans get in the way!

Saudi and Iran and exchanging ambassadors!

Shock of all shocks!

The CIA is VERY UPSET about it.

Fuckem!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
How did your little kerfuffle work out in Yemen? Goat herders sent you running...as usual.

We are all negotiating now.

Didn’t let the stupid Americans get in the way!

Saudi and Iran and exchanging ambassadors!

Shock of all shocks!

The CIA is VERY UPSET about it.

Fuckem!

The Americans? That was your mess from start to finish, brought to you by MBS.

Not to worry, you will be fighting amongst yourselves soon enough. At least several thousand years of history would lead one to believe that will be the likely outcome.

Arabs killing Arabs? Who would have guessed it?

Fuckem!

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
How did your little kerfuffle work out in Yemen? Goat herders sent you running...as usual.

We are all negotiating now.

Didn’t let the stupid Americans get in the way!

Saudi and Iran and exchanging ambassadors!

Shock of all shocks!

The CIA is VERY UPSET about it.

Fuckem!

The Americans? That was your mess from start to finish, brought to you by MBS.

Not to worry, you will be fighting amongst yourselves soon enough. At least several thousand years of history would lead one to believe that will be the likely outcome.

Arabs killing Arabs? Who would have guessed it?

Fuckem!

And who is killing Americans.

In America?

Got down to even children killing children!

What an utterly fucked up society!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by skb:
How did your little kerfuffle work out in Yemen? Goat herders sent you running...as usual.

We are all negotiating now.

Didn’t let the stupid Americans get in the way!

Saudi and Iran and exchanging ambassadors!

Shock of all shocks!

The CIA is VERY UPSET about it.

Fuckem!

The Americans? That was your mess from start to finish, brought to you by MBS.

Not to worry, you will be fighting amongst yourselves soon enough. At least several thousand years of history would lead one to believe that will be the likely outcome.

Arabs killing Arabs? Who would have guessed it?

Fuckem!

And who is killing Americans.

In America?

Got down to even children killing children!

What an utterly fucked up society!

No killing going on in ME. Especially if you happen to voice an opinion that is contradictory to your "rulers".

You are correct, you Arabs have an utterly fucked up society. Thousands of years of history to prove it as well.

He’s right in that our society is messed up.

I suspect he admits his is too, just in different ways and in his opinion, less so than ours.

It’s your opinion that ours is a lot less than his.

Frankly, if an outsider can tell me what is messed up in my society, and tell me how to fix it, I’m glad to listen, and decide if I support it.

Saeed saying that we are screwed up because we have lots of child homicide… yes. Agreed.

His solution of education… ok, so how are we to educate these folks? Will it solve the problem?

It’s easy to point out problems.

It’s harder to suggest solutions.

It’s harder yet to get folks to agree with trying the solution.

And all but impossible to actually fix a problem when humans are involved.

Ukraine accepting loss of territorial integrity might happen if the Russians kill enough of them, but Putin miscalculated either by being given bad information that the Ukrainian “Brother Slavs” would welcome Russia, or that the Russian war machine was capable of winning in weeks.

There have been NATO nations bordering Russia for some time- that excuse is not a real reason they started hostilities. That’s just a scapegoat reason.

Putin wants a return to imperial greatness, and sees that Russia is in decline and wants to reverse that. Too bad for him that in order to return to dominance, they need to substantially increase their economy before trying to expand their geopolitical influence. He put the wrong cart in front of the horse.

Pretty much because he was running out of time.

The pentagon leaks are interesting and I dont know what too make of them. I see the Pentagon has said its taking them seriously but has not confirmed if the information is true or false.

If you take a look at the open source intelligence from sites Like ISW, then they are saying Russia has pretty much fought itself too a standstill and is now reliant on artillery to hold ground. That would not have happened without western aid for Ukraine.
I do not know what Saeed wants? Its clear that if the west did not help Ukraine, then we (The world) would be facing watching a pretty massive genocide take place.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Pretty much because he was running out of time.

The pentagon leaks are interesting and I dont know what too make of them. I see the Pentagon has said its taking them seriously but has not confirmed if the information is true or false.

If you take a look at the open source intelligence from sites Like ISW, then they are saying Russia has pretty much fought itself too a standstill and is now reliant on artillery to hold ground. That would not have happened without western aid for Ukraine.
I do not know what Saeed wants? Its clear that if the west did not help Ukraine, then we (The world) would be facing watching a pretty massive genocide take place.

What Saeed wants is irrelevant but it is obvious that he hopes Putin genocidal invasion succeeds. I suppose he thinks a Russian victory is a good thing for his country. More oligarchs parking their mega yachts in Dubai Marina.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Pretty much because he was running out of time.

The pentagon leaks are interesting and I dont know what too make of them. I see the Pentagon has said its taking them seriously but has not confirmed if the information is true or false.

If you take a look at the open source intelligence from sites Like ISW, then they are saying Russia has pretty much fought itself too a standstill and is now reliant on artillery to hold ground. That would not have happened without western aid for Ukraine.
I do not know what Saeed wants? Its clear that if the west did not help Ukraine, then we (The world) would be facing watching a pretty massive genocide take place.

What Saeed wants is irrelevant but it is obvious that he hopes Putin genocidal invasion succeeds. I suppose he thinks a Russian victory is a good thing for his country. More oligarchs parking their mega yachts in Dubai Marina.

America is just jealous of Putin.

He is doing what you sorry lot have been doing for donkey's years!

Vietnam?

Got your cowardly arse handed to you.

Iraq?

Same thing!

Afghanistan?

Still in the news what a total fuck up America has been.

20 years and get well and truly beaten by cave dwellers!

Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Yes.

Let us NOT forget the Ukraine!

Would be interesting how it ends!

It ends in either of two ways. The current support of the west is enough and Ukraine itself manages to defeat the russian invasion. Or.. Ukraine starts to loose, and Poland sends troops in which starts a bigger conflict.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
It ends in either of two ways. The current support of the west is enough and Ukraine itself manages to defeat the russian invasion. Or.. Ukraine starts to loose, and Poland sends troops in which starts a bigger conflict.

Do you honestly believe that?

Poland will send troops in?

That does not invoke NATO, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

Keep on dreaming!

Only reason Saddam went into Kuwait because you told him too!

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
It ends in either of two ways. The current support of the west is enough and Ukraine itself manages to defeat the russian invasion. Or.. Ukraine starts to loose, and Poland sends troops in which starts a bigger conflict.

Do you honestly believe that?

Poland will send troops in?

That does not invoke NATO, IMO.

Poland has already said that it will not let Ukraine fail and if it looks like russia will win, it would rather fight russia in Ukraine than in poland or on the border.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

Keep on dreaming!

Only reason Saddam went into Kuwait because you told him too!

That May the dumbest statement you’ve made this year.

Not really.

We didn’t tell Saddam to invade Kuwait, but our idiot from Foggy Bottom did tell him in diplomatese that we would not interfere if he did.

And any argument any person makes against Ukraines course of action in this war, or the Wests support, is totally voided today by a single video.

Sounds like an invitation to a "party" to me. We'll see if Vlad takes the bait. Hope so.

In todays news, South Korea, who's laws prohibit them giving weapons too countries at war, have just given the United states half a million 155mm rounds......

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

Keep on dreaming!

Only reason Saddam went into Kuwait because you told him too!

That May the dumbest statement you’ve made this year.

America! Doing what they are best at. Screwing the whole world!

That's still a fecking long long way from the US telling Saddam to invade, even if it is true.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

Keep on dreaming!

Only reason Saddam went into Kuwait because you told him too!

That May the dumbest statement you’ve made this year.

America! Doing what they are best at. Screwing the whole world!

And saving you and your Arab brothers from dictators in the region, since you obviously can’t save yourselves. Remember the House of Saud agreed to let infidels onto holy Saudi Arabia to keep out their Arab brother from across the Persian Gulf?? When you can defend yourself from aggression without our help, get back to us. Although I doubt I’ll live that long……..

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
Possibly, but ask any citizen of Taiwan and I’d bet my next pay check that they are eternally grateful that the US backs their right to self determination.

Same for parts of the Balkans, and South Korea, and I would expect Kuwait, and Poland, and the Baltic states. The US has caused a few messes but it’s also prevented or fixed just as many.

And don’t forget Ukraine …

Both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia come to mind, probably as well as Qatar and the UAE. Saddam would have rolled over all 4 like shit through a goose if the US had stayed home. Oh well, how quickly they forget their insignificance…

Keep on dreaming!

Only reason Saddam went into Kuwait because you told him too!

That May the dumbest statement you’ve made this year.

America! Doing what they are best at. Screwing the whole world!

And saving you and your Arab brothers from dictators in the region, since you obviously can’t save yourselves. Remember the House of Saud agreed to let infidels onto holy Saudi Arabia to keep out their Arab brother from across the Persian Gulf?? When you can defend yourself from aggression without our help, get back to us. Although I doubt I’ll live that long……..

You lot don’t seem to realize you only became relevant after WW2.

And lasted till your misadventure in Vietnam.

Then it was straight downhill!

One cowardly defeat after another!

Kabul a few months ago not fresh enough in your empty heads??

Oh, I keep forgetting.

You are too busy picking a ruler!

Trump or Biden??

Hitlery, Feinstein, AOC?

Good luck!

If we fought wars the way we did in WWII, Afghanistan would be a nonissue, and you would be screaming about genocide.

I tend to think our involvement in Afghanistan was warranted… to a point.

If we would have left it as a old fashioned punitive expedition after Bin Laden, and anyone who supported him, and anyone who interferes with our mission, and left the nation building and the “bringing democracy” out of it, we would have been out of there some time ago, and without folks being able to claim we failed.

Bush allowed mission creep and subsequent presidents were unwilling to reduce Bush’s creep. Trump wanted out but no blame, and Biden wanted out and tried to put the blame on Trump.

Countries are going to run themselves as they see fit or tolerate. We can say certain things are unacceptable to us and if willing to fight over it, remove what we don’t like, but we can’t permanently change what those people want. Afghanistan want religious tribalism. We can kill the Mullahs and tribal elders, but unless we kill all or almost all the people, they will return to what they find acceptable.

In Germany post WWII, we killed enough that the remaining folks were happy to form a different government… if they all were die hard Nazis, we would still be fighting them and they would have a resurrected Nazi state.

Japan was different. We really didn’t change their government, but rather their emperor decided it was in his best interests to change it… and that worked. Hirohito knew we could kill him and his family if he didn’t, and McArthur knew the best way to change Japan was through their (at that time viewed as a God) emperor.

Pretty much spot on! For what its worth I think right now America has hit the right balance and it would be a mistake to commit troops to Ukraine. If foreign troops do go in, (Which is unlikely.) it should be european.