That fentanyl is not their problem.......we are on our own. They don't produce it.


Mexico is a failed state.....A sucking chest wound on our southern border.

The cartels run Mexico lock stock and barrel. It is time we eliminate the cartels!

He’s right. It’s our problem. But you’re right. Mexico is a failed state run by the drug cartels.

Long overdue.

Absolutely stunning that we work ourselves into a full lather over Ukraine, Somalia and Iraq when 25' south of our border all that is going on.

"Introducing Democracy" tens of thousands of miles away while our very own democracy is hazarded by our neighbor at home.

No market no problem.

And what state is America in?

Run by geniuses?

Only way to stop drug use is to educate people.

And have serious punishment for the sellers.

In fact, anyone with a kilo of it, should be shot on sight!

Pandering to "human rights" and lining the pockets of the human vermin masquerading as "lawyers" is not going to cut it.

Damn, Saeed, for once we agree!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Only way to stop drug use is to educate people.

And have serious punishment for the sellers.

In fact, anyone with a kilo of it, should be shot on sight!

Pandering to "human rights" and lining the pockets of the human vermin masquerading as "lawyers" is not going to cut it.

Less than a kilo in my opinion.

If I was the king of the "War on Drugs" we would have won it a long time ago.

A twenty mile wide strip of burnt ground along the Mexican side of our Southern border......that wouldnt be a bad idea either.

If America has any decent president, he would tell Mexico stop the drug cartel or we will.

They won’t of course.

A couple of cruise missiles on the homes of the biggest cartel leaders will do it.

Of course, we are just dreaming!

From a draft dodging self obsessed idiot to a brainless geriatric!

I am for stopping it at all costs by any means necessary.

It flabbergasts me that we haven’t already.

I sort of like hanging them up in public like biltong to dry. Racks for display.
Illegal border crossings might be a good location.

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
I sort of like hanging them up in public like biltong to dry. Racks for display.
Illegal border crossings might be a good location.

If there is a market for them the drugs will still get in.

Sure it'll get in, but today it's brought in with arrogant impunity.

Drug Cartel operating out of Butte Montana!

Tunnels big enough for a freight train under our southern border.

Submarines! Full on no shit freaking submarines on our coasts used for drug transport.

Seriously, it's like we share a border with Libya or Iran and we have an open border policy. Anyone wearing a Hamas Tshirt and has a big bulky vest underneath their ski parka is an asylum seeker and need a Happy Meal.

Do you have any idea how much time, money and effort the US puts in to stopping the flow of illegal drugs? Do you have any idea how long we've been doing it?

Anybody with half a brain ought to be able to figure out that the solution to the problem is to take the profit out of it by legalizing it. It's about money. Like everything else.

Mike, cannabis is now legal at a state level in the majority of Western states, yet there is still a booming and thriving Black Market in cannabis in these states.

I was just reading an article about the national legalization of cannabis in Canada and how there is still a thriving Black Market there as well

There will always be.

We could close the border tomorrow and these criminal minds would figure out a way to get the precursors to make fentanyl and methamphetamine inside of this country.

I would like to see the United States government reach into their pocket and take some of the millions of dollars that's being spent on building holding facilities, and immigration courts, and immigration lawyers, and judges, and all the accompanying infrastructure and spend it on more treatment centers and hiring more rehab specialists, for AMERICANS.

Yes, I realize the relapse rate is plus or minus 80%, but @ approx 300 Americans a day dying from fentynal alone, a 20% success rate sounds pretty good.

We need to prioritize.

I'm not saying we don't need to do better at the border.

We do.

If anybody in this discussion should know that it's me I've lived here for 61 years and seen it with my own two eyes.

So as much as I think the President of May He Co should f.o.a.d.

He's right, he can't fix us.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Do you have any idea how much time, money and effort the US puts in to stopping the flow of illegal drugs? Do you have any idea how long we've been doing it?

Anybody with half a brain ought to be able to figure out that the solution to the problem is to take the profit out of it by legalizing it. It's about money. Like everything else.

I think it was Nixon that declared the "War on Drugs".

I'm aware of the cost of fighting drugs and I also think it's obvious we aren't getting a good bang for our buck. I don't think I'm wrong, the Cartels operate with impunity, that needs to change.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
Do you have any idea how much time, money and effort the US puts in to stopping the flow of illegal drugs? Do you have any idea how long we've been doing it?

Anybody with half a brain ought to be able to figure out that the solution to the problem is to take the profit out of it by legalizing it. It's about money. Like everything else.

Yes, I do.

Lots of time, money and effort used badly!!!!!

The solution is to kill drug dealers!

Its about money, you are correct.....too many lawyers and politicians would lose too much repeat business!


.

I always cringe when i hear we need to go to war with the cartels.

The cartels are Mexico's problem not mine.

I'm not interested in ANOTHER hot war, especially considering that I'll be living smack dab in the middle of it.
So, fuck that.

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners and I have said all along if you want Mexico to deal with the cartels we need to close the border (no fly zone/dmz) and stop trade right now.
They would find right quick that there isn't another teat in this hemisphere big enough to keep them afloat.


But as Saeed has already adeptly pointed out above, that will never happen.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
If America has any decent president, he would tell Mexico stop the drug cartel or we will.

They won’t of course.

A couple of cruise missiles on the homes of the biggest cartel leaders will do it.

Of course, we are just dreaming!

From a draft dodging self obsessed idiot to a brainless geriatric!

just to be clear, asthma joe is also a draft dodger... in fact, trump, biden, obama, and clinton are all draft dodgers

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
If America has any decent president, he would tell Mexico stop the drug cartel or we will.

They won’t of course.

A couple of cruise missiles on the homes of the biggest cartel leaders will do it.

Of course, we are just dreaming!

From a draft dodging self obsessed idiot to a brainless geriatric!

just to be clear, asthma joe is also a draft dodger... in fact, trump, biden, obama, and clinton are all draft dodgers

Are you sure about Obama? He was born in 1961, the draft ended in 1973, that would mean he was 12 years old.

You might want to check your facts.

Again, no market, no problem. Stop blaming Mexico for not fixing our problem.

There has always been illicit drug use, drug abuse and drug addiction.

There is no fixing it.

Hell even in places like the Middle East where you get your head chopped off for it or in communist China where they line you up in front of a firing squad there is still drug use and abuse.

Which brings to mind some very interesting reading that I have done recently about the Opium Wars.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
I always cringe when i hear we need to go to war with the cartels.

The cartels are Mexico's problem not mine.

I'm not interested in ANOTHER hot war, especially considering that I'll be living smack dab in the middle of it.
So, fuck that.

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners and I have said all along if you want Mexico to deal with the cartels we need to close the border (no fly zone/dmz) and stop trade right now.
They would find right quick that there isn't another teat in this hemisphere big enough to keep them afloat.


But as Saeed has already adeptly pointed out above, that will never happen.


.

I'd be willing to give that a try.

Me too Jim.

It would come at a cost though.

But I'm willing to make certain sacrifices to slow the extraordinary loss of lives here.

Just not a hot war. Yet.


.

Problem with drug use is that western society coddles people and won’t let them fall on their lips if they loose job, get lazy or whatever reason when they have no work
Every town has food bank and churches with 3 meals a day
WE SIMPLY HAVE IT TOO GOOD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kanec:
Problem with drug use is that western society coddles people and won’t let them fall on their lips if they loose job, get lazy or whatever reason when they have no work
Every town has food bank and churches with 3 meals a day
WE SIMPLY HAVE IT TOO GOOD
Hell, we all have a problem to recruit into a military
Ancient Rome anyone? History does repeat itself

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas "Ty" Beaham:
I always cringe when i hear we need to go to war with the cartels.

The cartels are Mexico's problem not mine.

I'm not interested in ANOTHER hot war,


especially considering that I'll be living smack dab in the middle of it.
So, fuck that.

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners and I have said all along if you want Mexico to deal with the cartels we need to close the border (no fly zone/dmz) and stop trade right now.
They would find right quick that there isn't another teat in this hemisphere big enough to keep them afloat.


But as Saeed has already adeptly pointed out above, that will never happen.


.

I'd be willing to give that a try.

I too support this framework. End trade and close the border with military enforcement.

I would also be okay with a CIA/Covert uprising of a shadow government with promise of recognition and trade for overthrowing the current regime in Mexico for a new one that will not shelter the Cartel.

You can either be the Cartel’s friend supported by the Cartel. Or you can be our friend with our support. You will not be both.

I think the Mexican Government is a large part of the problem.

It is refreshing to see something we can all mostly agree on.

One thing I have tried to get done and failed is to scale drug trafficking offenses to the amount of drugs product being trafficked.

For example Trafficking is a Class C felony in KY. It does not matter the amount nor substance. This is a 5-10 year sentence. However, it is not a crime of violence. Thus, parole eligible at 15 percent. For example, I just had a trafficker sentenced to 7 years to serve, but he will be out in little more than 2 years parole eligible.

I proved he trafficked 70 Grams of Cartel Meth.

That much meth trafficked should be a crime if violence a Classification that requires 85 percent of the Sentence NF parole eligible.

Sen Rand Paul personally called State Lawmakers to kill the idea. I could not get it to committee.

My proposal has been 50 grams or more regardless of substance (excluding marijuana) be classed a crime of violence 85 percent of sentence guaranteed to be served.

Above 50 grams be classified a crime of violence and a Class B 10-25 year crime. This, a higher penalty and 85 percent before parole eligibility.

I tell everyone I can at Frankfort. I have written it up. No play.

I find folks do not want to incarcerate traffickers. Regardless, what they say campaigning.

I would say that is confounding, but I don't know Sen. Paul's position or argument.

Out of curiosity is that something you may expound on?

If you are not at liberty to comment I understand.

.

Sen. Paul has led the fight with Dems both at the state and Fed level to reduce mandatory sentences. For Sen. Paul he wraps it in Liberty. What it is, on the Right side is “save” money. Less prisoners less cost.

However, I am of the guess such saves no money just letting these low life’s out to come back through.

A State Senator introduced a bill to reduce sentences for repeat felons this time. Almost got out of committee. Her name is Senator Adrienne Southworth. She deserves all the heat she can get. She is a Republican by the way.

quote:

Are you sure about Obama? He was born in 1961, the draft ended in 1973, that would mean he was 12 years old.

You might want to check your facts.

kids still have to register for it when they turn 18.
can't be too far gone.

Obama didn't register because he couldn't find his American birth certificate.

I guess Sen. Paul is entitled to his opinion.

But, if that opinion is in concert with the right's position in Kentucky, being it is all about saving money, well, he can keep that opinion.

In the last few days I watched a documentary on the very subject matter of finite resources in California's judicial system.
( now keep in mind, California is the 5th largest economy in the world behind Germany )
It essentially said that there were just so many jail and prison cells, just so many courtrooms, just so many officers of the Court, and just so many hours in the day in their overburdened system that California is forced to release a great number of criminals right back into society with little to zero consequences.

Not sure if that is the case in Kentucky or not. If it is, and i would assume California and Kentucky are politically polar opposites, I'm vexed, how as a society we have ended up here?

I mean seriously, can't we appropriate the means to remedy this situation?

It's not sustainable, and The People WILL lose confidence.

Frankly, it borders on the definition of insanity. A craps shoot at best.

Where do we go from here?


.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:

quote:

Are you sure about Obama? He was born in 1961, the draft ended in 1973, that would mean he was 12 years old.

You might want to check your facts.

kids still have to register for it when they turn 18.
can't be too far gone.

Obama didn't register because he couldn't find his American birth certificate.

False. There was NO registration requirement in the spring of 1979 when Obama graduated at 18. It was reinstated during his college years. And I call bullshit about the birth certificate statement you made. I both registered and served and have never had a birth certificate.

Barack Obama and I are the same age and born a little more than 2 months apart.

He and I were required to register between July 28 & August 1st, 1980.
Barack would have been a week short of his 19th birthday.
That makes him 18 years old, by my calculations... lol
Whether he did or not, don't know, don't care.

I ran the gauntlet of protesters in front of the post office that week though, to register with the Selective Service.

I remember the day vividly.
One of the protesters was my Episcopal priest by the name of John Clinton Fowler, born in 1924, who lost one of his legs to the Germans in World War II.
He was very well known in the anti-war movement, arguably the loudest in all of Tucson at the time.
Reverend Fowler was also known not to mince words.

John and I exchanged pleasantries and a few choice words as I pushed past him and into the post office's lobby.

He wouldn't even look at me on the way out.

My next communion was, well, awkward.

A week later I was working in a cannery on Kodiak Island.



.

I repeat.

Knock off the heads of the cartel.

Once replaced, nock those off too.

Make them understand this is not a profitable venture.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:


Obama didn't register because he couldn't find his American birth certificate.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Mark Twain.

and yet here we are.

weird I had to have one to join up, and I had to fill out the paper at the post office too.

I guess 1979 was just an anomaly year where everyone got a pass.