quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
How were they denied due process?

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:

Oh I don’t know. How long have some sat there without trial?
How were they denied due process?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
You mean lack of due process afforded citizens under the Constitution, old woman?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
So you nuts are ok with your own citizens sitting in a gulag while BLM thugs who caused billions in damages during the mostly peaceful protests are still walking free?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
So you nuts are ok with your own citizens sitting in a gulag while BLM thugs who caused billions in damages during the mostly peaceful protests are still walking free?

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Government property is public property but destroying private property is ok I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:


It was a riot. A lot of stupid people involved but just a riot.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:


It was a riot. A lot of stupid people involved but just a riot.

Even you aren't that stupid, it was an armed attack on the seat of our Government timed to disrupt an essential democratic function to try to make a loser a winner.

~Ann

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Government property is public property but destroying private property is ok I guess.

That's up to the private property owners to press charges and bring suit, not the Government.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:


It was a riot. A lot of stupid people involved but just a riot.

Even you aren't that stupid, it was an armed attack on the seat of our Government timed to disrupt an essential democratic function to try to make a loser a winner.

Armed with what? Pitchforks?

It was a riot. Nothing more. I have not forgotten the video of cap police leading people, 'rioters', around the inside of the building. Embarrassing, and I bet none of them lost their jobs for that.

Weren't you one of the people screaming here that a cop was murdered at this riot? Even when that wasn't even true?

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
She’s half right. Trump supporters are stupid people. Between this and Lane admitting that republicans are too stupid to figure how to vote, we’ll… I’d say they’re making headway.

~Ann

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by LongDistanceOperator:
She’s half right. Trump supporters are stupid people. Between this and Lane admitting that republicans are too stupid to figure how to vote, we’ll… I’d say they’re making headway.

No, Sgt LDO.

MOST trump supporters did not 'storm' the Capitol and did not do so because most people do not agree with that kind of behavior. It was a riot.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I wonder what Ann's reaction would be to Al Gore supporters storming the Capital in 2000 because they didn't agree with the outcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
I wonder what Ann's reaction would be to Al Gore supporters storming the Capital in 2000 because they didn't agree with the outcome.

Disagree with me on the numbers, I'm just going off of my ignorant opinion, but it looks to me like around the nation there are thousands of "pro Hamas Americans" I gather that there have been large pro Hamas protests in Seattle, New York, the SF Bay Area and on.

These pro Hamas Americans are being well educated by my own friends here what they can and can't get away with when they along with the Taliban storm the Capitol.

I am genuinely shocked and horrified at the length my friends will go to in excusing the January 6th criminals. As far as I'm concerned, when in the near future a pro Islam/ pro Hamas/ "Death to America!"rally in D.C. goes bad and our public memorials, institutions and sest of government is attacked and ransacked, my friends here will share blame.

The hypocrisy of condemning the vandalism of the federal courthouse in Portland Oregon vs quibbling over semantics on January 6th is mind boggling.

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
Kneecapping as in Piglosi refusing to send the National Guard as requested by DJT? Oops back down the memory hole.

Trump: "Putin is a Genius" "Hezbollah is very smart"

quote:

Originally posted by bluefish:
And her failure with the Capitol Police that days was abysmal.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
Its 3 years out and that they are holding folks without the trial being completed yet is a disgrace.

The delays are being driven by the defendants, not the government.

It would seem that whether or not you were participating in the riotous part is pretty straightforward. The armed insurrection is much less so.

While I certainly agree that they found some guys brought guns to DC, I don't see any photos circulating of guys acting a la the Taliban and wandering around the capitol with AR 15's. The more steps they need to show to get a conviction, the longer it takes, and that we are this far down the rabbit hole and they still are not done kind of indicates a lot of circumstantial stuff being used here.

All any of them has to do is invoke their Right to a speedy trial.

What I would like to know is if Trump actually had any role in fomenting this or if its only proven that he was negligent of his duties.

That will be made clear enough for even you to understand during his trial.

One indicates he should not be considered for return to the office by the voters, the other indicates he should be tried for treason by the courts.

Treason is narrowly defined by the Constitution, and this ain't it.

Personally, while I think he showed his ass and his incompetence, I think most of the court stuff is the democrats playing politics... kind of like the GOP with Benghazi.

Unlike Benghazi every one of these criminal cases, against the insurrectionists and Trump, went before a Grand Jury which voted there was sufficient evidence for a trial.

There it became pretty obvious that the courts had no intention of doing anything re the Obama admin folks and their actions, and yet the GOP kept bringing it up as it was unpopular and helped the GOP politically. I think the same will happen here with Trump. He will not be prosecuted for anything re 1/6, but it does help the democrats so they keep it in the media spotlight.

He IS being prosecuted for his actions related to Jan 6, and is delaying as much as he can. Please try to keep up.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

Personally, while I think he showed his ass and his incompetence, I think most of the court stuff is the democrats playing politics... kind of like the GOP with Benghazi.

There it became pretty obvious that the courts had no intention of doing anything re the Obama admin folks and their actions, and yet the GOP kept bringing it up as it was unpopular and helped the GOP politically. I think the same will happen here with Trump.

He will not be prosecuted for anything re 1/6, but it does help the democrats so they keep it in the media spotlight.

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

Personally, while I think he showed his ass and his incompetence, I think most of the court stuff is the democrats playing politics... kind of like the GOP with Benghazi.

There it became pretty obvious that the courts had no intention of doing anything re the Obama admin folks and their actions, and yet the GOP kept bringing it up as it was unpopular and helped the GOP politically. I think the same will happen here with Trump.

He will not be prosecuted for anything re 1/6, but it does help the democrats so they keep it in the media spotlight.

Doc, you are a constant source for perspective on supposedly the "good" conservatives still out there, those who think highly of their views and think they are objective, rational, got a grasp on reality and such. The far right might call you a border-line RINO. But in reality, you represent the problem - just a GOPer.

When you condemn roughly half the country as a problem, then you are every bit as much the problem as they are.

First - making Trump's prosecution analogous to the Benghazi farce is a gross false equivalence.
Some is, some isn't. Do you think that Trump is going to actually be put in court for actual advocacy of violent overthrow of the US government? If he incited and gave support to an armed insurrection, that's treason. Or are you admitting you don't have that, but his other sundry crimes are "close enough."

Second: one definition of prosecute: "Institute legal proceedings against (a person or organization)"

Thus, Trump is already being prosecuted per four separate indictments.

And again, are any of them related to the occurrences on 1/6? Tax issues? - his NY state charges... Conspiracy to defraud the US government (by disputing the results of an election)? Note its not about illegitimate election, its defraud- ie they had to spend money to prove they were right... Conspiracy to obstruct (and overt obstruction) an official proceding... here is the meat of it. If he had worked with elements to violently (armed) overthrow the duly elected government, thats rebellion and treason; if he aided them somehow that doesn't rise to treason then its conspiracy. I'm no legal expert- I suspect you can convince some people of conspiracy no matter what- you seem to be buying in to a leftist conspiracy theory... that Trump (who has shown little genius for actual planning or application) was able to somehow mastermind a grand conspiracy with all kinds of dumbassery showing behind the scenes, but no smoking gun that he actually tried to hold a palace coup.

As for conspiracy against rights, that's a joke.

He tried, using some novel (and pretty lame) theories to pick electors more to his own favor. Near as I understand it, unless you get found with prejudice just bringing something to court/congress is not illegal. Of course, if he had won, then like the dems with their nuclear option, it would be abused by both sides going forward and was rightfully stopped.

Yes, its a GOP problem as it seems a fair number of Republican voters want to jam Trump down the country's throat because they feel Biden was/is a crock.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...-against-trump-stand

Where the criminal cases against Trump stand

Updated on Aug 15, 2023 10:01 PM EST — Published on Aug 9, 2023 6:12 PM EST (older news article, still relevant. None of the charges have been dropped.)

It's evident that you have bought into Trump's and his allies' narratives. That, specifically, is their goal, and that specifically is just as big of a problem as all the stuff he was indicted for. Trump and his allies have literally spent billions $ and flooded the media, especially Fox, on propaganda, and you are buying it along with millions of others. It's a twisted form of the same frame of mind that got him elected one time and may again. Same shit, just morphed.

No, you all are so far down your little lane of echo chamber that you don't see it. I don't doubt he has done a number of things that qualify as illegal and are violations... but they are not " a threat to the republic."

He should not be president. He has failed to hold an acceptable level of integrity. He has committed a number of crimes that joe blow citizen gets in trouble for, but they seem to find ingenuous ways to excuse them in the power elites.

Let's hope the real judicial system works this out per the actual law, despite the court of public opinion, which is obviously flawed.
No kidding...

But, you are correct in one aspect. If Republican politicians had the power to thwart such prosecutions, they would have nipped it in the bud. And they have done a lot through malfeasance of their official powers to thwart the process, and if they win the power, they will quash it, in the present and future.

So, weaponizing the law can be through action or inaction. Thwarting the rule of law can be either. Enabling or applying the rule of law is not weaponizing. Prosecuting Trump for the crimes he's accused of is not weaponizing the law.

Thus the comparison to Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the whole Learner issue.

I really think Trump is so twisted in his concepts of right and wrong, the law, governance, practically everything, and he has a gift of tapping into the preconceptions of so many who relate, profoundly, that this is a form of mass projection. He and they know darn well what they would do, which is the only way then can relate, so they project that everyone is that way; That "they" are doing it to "us". It's a reciprocal political power thing. Repug MAGAs simply can't separate the political power thing from the rule of law, and they know darn well what Trump thinks about it and what he will do, weaponize the law rather than abide, if given the chance. And it will be justified because GOPers think it's reciprocation of what's being done to them.

While Trump and his minions in the GOP are getting slammed, the Dems have and continue to do a number of overreaches by use of government power and fiat that their friends in the media cover for them. If HRC's issues were grossly incompetent, but there was no proof of intent to violate the law, you are really catfishing to say Trump knowingly committed crimes and thus should be held accountable.

Trump's prosecutions are a contest between the Founder's rule of law and Trumpism. It's zero-sum. It's clear to me that you side with Trumpism, despite saying you don't support Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

Personally, while I think he showed his ass and his incompetence, I think most of the court stuff is the democrats playing politics... kind of like the GOP with Benghazi.

There it became pretty obvious that the courts had no intention of doing anything re the Obama admin folks and their actions, and yet the GOP kept bringing it up as it was unpopular and helped the GOP politically. I think the same will happen here with Trump.

He will not be prosecuted for anything re 1/6, but it does help the democrats so they keep it in the media spotlight.

Doc, you are a constant source for perspective on supposedly the "good" conservatives still out there, those who think highly of their views and think they are objective, rational, got a grasp on reality and such. The far right might call you a border-line RINO. But in reality, you represent the problem - just a GOPer.

When you condemn roughly half the country as a problem, then you are every bit as much the problem as they are.

First - making Trump's prosecution analogous to the Benghazi farce is a gross false equivalence.
Some is, some isn't. Do you think that Trump is going to actually be put in court for actual advocacy of violent overthrow of the US government? If he incited and gave support to an armed insurrection, that's treason. Or are you admitting you don't have that, but his other sundry crimes are "close enough."

Second: one definition of prosecute: "Institute legal proceedings against (a person or organization)"

Thus, Trump is already being prosecuted per four separate indictments.

And again, are any of them related to the occurrences on 1/6? Tax issues? - his NY state charges... Conspiracy to defraud the US government (by disputing the results of an election)? Note its not about illegitimate election, its defraud- ie they had to spend money to prove they were right... Conspiracy to obstruct (and overt obstruction) an official proceding... here is the meat of it. If he had worked with elements to violently (armed) overthrow the duly elected government, thats rebellion and treason; if he aided them somehow that doesn't rise to treason then its conspiracy. I'm no legal expert- I suspect you can convince some people of conspiracy no matter what- you seem to be buying in to a leftist conspiracy theory... that Trump (who has shown little genius for actual planning or application) was able to somehow mastermind a grand conspiracy with all kinds of dumbassery showing behind the scenes, but no smoking gun that he actually tried to hold a palace coup.

As for conspiracy against rights, that's a joke.

He tried, using some novel (and pretty lame) theories to pick electors more to his own favor. Near as I understand it, unless you get found with prejudice just bringing something to court/congress is not illegal. Of course, if he had won, then like the dems with their nuclear option, it would be abused by both sides going forward and was rightfully stopped.

Yes, its a GOP problem as it seems a fair number of Republican voters want to jam Trump down the country's throat because they feel Biden was/is a crock.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/p...-against-trump-stand

Where the criminal cases against Trump stand

Updated on Aug 15, 2023 10:01 PM EST — Published on Aug 9, 2023 6:12 PM EST (older news article, still relevant. None of the charges have been dropped.)

It's evident that you have bought into Trump's and his allies' narratives. That, specifically, is their goal, and that specifically is just as big of a problem as all the stuff he was indicted for. Trump and his allies have literally spent billions $ and flooded the media, especially Fox, on propaganda, and you are buying it along with millions of others. It's a twisted form of the same frame of mind that got him elected one time and may again. Same shit, just morphed.

No, you all are so far down your little lane of echo chamber that you don't see it. I don't doubt he has done a number of things that qualify as illegal and are violations... but they are not " a threat to the republic."

He should not be president. He has failed to hold an acceptable level of integrity. He has committed a number of crimes that joe blow citizen gets in trouble for, but they seem to find ingenuous ways to excuse them in the power elites.

Let's hope the real judicial system works this out per the actual law, despite the court of public opinion, which is obviously flawed.
No kidding...

But, you are correct in one aspect. If Republican politicians had the power to thwart such prosecutions, they would have nipped it in the bud. And they have done a lot through malfeasance of their official powers to thwart the process, and if they win the power, they will quash it, in the present and future.

So, weaponizing the law can be through action or inaction. Thwarting the rule of law can be either. Enabling or applying the rule of law is not weaponizing. Prosecuting Trump for the crimes he's accused of is not weaponizing the law.

Thus the comparison to Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and the whole Learner issue.

I really think Trump is so twisted in his concepts of right and wrong, the law, governance, practically everything, and he has a gift of tapping into the preconceptions of so many who relate, profoundly, that this is a form of mass projection. He and they know darn well what they would do, which is the only way then can relate, so they project that everyone is that way; That "they" are doing it to "us". It's a reciprocal political power thing. Repug MAGAs simply can't separate the political power thing from the rule of law, and they know darn well what Trump thinks about it and what he will do, weaponize the law rather than abide, if given the chance. And it will be justified because GOPers think it's reciprocation of what's being done to them.

While Trump and his minions in the GOP are getting slammed, the Dems have and continue to do a number of overreaches by use of government power and fiat that their friends in the media cover for them. If HRC's issues were grossly incompetent, but there was no proof of intent to violate the law, you are really catfishing to say Trump knowingly committed crimes and thus should be held accountable.

Trump's prosecutions are a contest between the Founder's rule of law and Trumpism. It's zero-sum. It's clear to me that you side with Trumpism, despite saying you don't support Trump.

You seem to understand a lot more out of minimal electronic posts than most could.

Trump is a political force. Not a good one, but a political force. The founders would have real issues with your advocacy of legal remedies for what is a political question. The ship sailed long ago on treating politicians like common citizens. While I have little concern for Trump, I do have issues with the apparent double standard that the left is shrilly screaming about. I don't disagree that the GOP is kind of resorting to "well, but look at this act" commentary. The Dems have gotten away with similar bad behavior for decades, albeit of a lower order of magnitude.

You mistake objective looking at the circumstances of how this country is being governed and seeing similarities between both parties as being "Trumpian"... well, maybe... if the Democrats are also "Trumpian"

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
"blue" why don't you just wander off. You are completely out of step with reality.

No one is "sitting in a gulag". Give us a list of the "billions in damages" you mention. You sure your first name isn't "Karen".