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Presidents Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Barack 0bama flushed our influence in Africa down the drain to never be regained in my lifetime. For years now…I have watch China replace the West in east and southern Africa. But now…Russia is making it’s move and its implications are already having real world repercussions. Travel from the USA to southern Africa is becoming more difficult and complicated. See now how Russia is now exploiting the continent. The USA is no where to be seen as influential on the continent. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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Conservation to one side, most American citizens would take the position to let China and Russia have it. My fear are terrorist groups using African-Nation States as a base of operations for terrorist attacks. | |||
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Correct on all 3 counts…but sad to me. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Although it almost happened, there was no way President Carter (or any President) with the stench of Vietnam still able to be smelled was going to start, or be perceived as starting, a new Vietnam sending troops to Angola. Africa seems to be the place where Domino Theory played out. I have no issue with the West response as to South African Apartheid and occupation of Namibia. If you do not like President Carter you need to read and understand the influence his Sec of State Cyrus Vance had. | |||
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World Bank just put the screws to Uganda over their homosexuality policy. Look forward to another member of the China sponsored alternative. Grizz When the horse has been eliminated, human life may be extended an average of five or more years. James R. Doolitle I think they've been misunderstood. Timothy Tredwell | |||
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What are you “battery people” forget however…is that rare earth minerals and semiconductors has to be mined. And, the Chinese are mining the f**king hell out of Africa…pillaging it. Who is the market??? Europe and USA. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Yep ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The west has for years poured aid into Africa, but the moment the west ties it to improving human rights the recipients get pissy. How much aid are they going to get from Russia? | |||
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We didn’t need to send troops anywhere. We just needed to stick by our then allies of South Africa and Rhodesia and supply them as we are doing with Ukraine and let THEM sort there local politics. As we have seen now in Iraq and Afghanistan…is what we think is appropriate…is not necessarily appropriate for them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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That is one of my points…what “we” thought was aid…helped NOTHING. It was actually a huge detriment. The aid that was needed was to stick by the governments that were “similar” to us and our allies at the time. Today’s west will NEVER understand Africa or the Middle East for that matter. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Are you implying the US should re-colonialism Africa? The inability of colonial powers to transition to affective home rule is what allowed the Communist/nationalist movements supported by Cubs and Moscow to have any draw. You do not like it, but it is true. The Failure of Southern Rhodesia resulted in a mini Cuba, like one party dictatorship. However, the White Minority was never going to be allowed to dictate policy. I do wish a compromise similar to Ian Smith’s would have won the day. However, white rule was not an option morally, ethically, or justifiably to Western Principles. The African Nationalism movement won. The blame starts with the failure of colonial powers to transition ethical home rule. | |||
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The US had boots in Angola for over 25 yrs. We backed UNITA and later FNLA over the comunist MPLA. At some point, fairly early on, a Dem senator, Clark, I think it was, found out. He started a row to cut ties. On paper we did. Boots stayed on the ground anyway. The CIA trained American, British, French and Portugues, against the thousands of Cuban soldiers there. Later, in my time, small squad strength, were moved in and out on 3 week rotations. Quick hit targets, and disappear. Many training schools were three weeks, it was easy to cover a missing squad for 3 weeks as on a training schedual. The CIA were very good about covering things up. The whole country was salted with land mines, that's what I remember most. Seeing one legged kids everywhere. The path to get water from the villages were always freshly mined. Israel took over in large part later in the 90's. They had their own deals going on with SA. | |||
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Let them have it? They already have it, but I don't think that's smart. Access to earth's resources is important. and the US has lost a lot of that, not just under the presidents mentioned, but also under Bush Jr. | |||
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Not just China, but Brazil, Russia, India, China, + RSA and their upcoming BRIC digital based gold backed currency... At that point America is going to have bigger problems than saving the upright termites on the African Continent from themselves. . | |||
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Maybe I'm not understanding. You're saying we should have supported racist apartheid governance so we can have access to minerals? -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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We support countries that harbor terrorists because they have oil. | |||
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I would have supported Rhodesians because they were just salt of the earth people. South Africa through the 1990s was a first world thriving country. The first successful human heart transplant was performed there in 1967. Today it is shithole country of genocide conveniently overlooked by the rest of the world. https://www.newsweek.com/white...es-do-nothing-851470 Yeah…I would have supported the 1990s SA government…helluva lot better than what is there now. Just because a liberal thought it was bad…doesn’t make it so. Every thing we think is best…doesn’t necessarily work in other societies…Iraq and Afghanistan the most recent examples. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Liberal, Conservative or Moderate, apartheid was a terrible system and one we should have never supported. Not a ton different from the Jim Crow period in our own South, another failed policy better relegated to the past. Someone will soon be telling us how wonderful the South was in the 50's..... | |||
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A minority of folks do not have a right to exclude the majority from political power. A power sharing with protections for minorities was the path forward. However, keeping White Rule excluding blacks from political power for decades of not centuries was not an option. That led to Communist/Nationalists control more than anything; not Carter. Rationalizations of ethic superiority. It was centuries of excluding Blacks from Political Power and Property that allowed the Mugabes to be a thing. Same as Batista’s while corrupt and morally bankrupt administration (really a regime) permitted the Castro cronies to be viable. | |||
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It was successful…more than can be said for today’s. Forbes — South Africa: The Failed State Risk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The failure is on the Whites exclusion of Blacks from political power and property. That allowed the evil you complain about today to win. Successful if you are White. | |||
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Carter really had nothing to do with SA. He killed Rhodesia. Clinton ruined SA. They (SA) were thriving before we forced change. Now, it is basically a failed state. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Ian Smith had the correct plan. Had we supported him…history would have been changed through out southern Africa. We didn’t…the rest is history…our bad. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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I agree with the idea of Smith’s plan. As he articulated, I do not find it acceptable. You would not support quotas for African Americans in the National Legislature. Why should his opposition. They should not have. The failure of colonial powers to transition home rule to joint power sharing with blacks ( and the nation states that followed colonialism) made what you hate now a reality. The counter to that failure was the Communists/Nationalists to have something to sell. The US was never after Vietnam in the 79s going to commit troops to Africa for African shakes. It did not matter what Party the President belonged to Finally, President Nixon and President Ford ignored Africa. That is not disputable. President Carter had a lot more interaction, policy concerning Africa. At least Carter tried and cared. Africa could not be saved from itself. President Carter could have ignored Africa like his GOP predecessors. | |||
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Sheer idiocy. Apartheid was evil and arguments that it was economically better are the same. Slavery in the US was economically beneficial to the slaveowners too, no argument about that. Doesn't make it right. -Every damn thing is your own fault if you are any good. | |||
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Get your facts straight heym. Ford put men and money in Angola to help UNITA fight communism and have a democratic country. | |||
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| Administrator |
Hahahaha! Yes. Why don’t you lot sort your own bloody so called DEMOCRACY? Hahahaha!  | |||
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Ian Smith was the PM of Rhodesia. Apartheid was in South Africa. Ian had a plan for integration of government. Get your facts straight you dumb motherfucker. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Ian Smith called for a quota of white seats in the legislature. You would not accept African Americans here having a mandatory quota in Congress. Also Ian Smith and Rhodesia excluded blacks from political power and voting even more drastically in 1969 before the nationalist movement war. The 1962 Constitution guaranteed White Majority Rule placing Black Majority voters on Roll B. No, it may not have been Apartheid. The results were the same being the exclusion of Black’s from political power and wielding a majority in a parliamentary system. Again, these policies created the dragon that devoured much of Africa. | |||
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| Administrator |
Ian Smith would have succeeded if the West, Especially the UK, left him. What happened to his country is slowly happening to yours. I see in the news today insurance company offering into blacks only. No whites, Hispanic or Asians are allowed! Wake up! Won’t be long now!! | |||
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As bad as I hate to agree with you Saeed…you are 100% correct. One of the only reasons I hang out here is try and open the eyes of those who aren’t blind but yet they cannot see. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Let us not forget that the UDI period the majority exiled or imprisoned white RP party leaders after the RP secured 20 percent of the vote. These folks would never set in the Legislature because of Rhodesia’s first-past-the-post electoral system meant that they never won seats in the Assembly. We cannot forget the censorship of press used to control/limit candidate choice. No, Rhodesia’s fall into Mugabe is the fault of poor colonial government and the White majority that replaced it. It is not President Carter’s. Ian Smith, the last white minority leader of Rhodesia, who vowed that blacks would not rule his country “in a thousand years.” | |||
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Again…you have a lot learn. Ian Smith had a plan. He had the influence. He had the respect…both white and black. All he lacked was time. And, time was the key ingredient. Carter denied him time. The monkey is squarely on Great Britain’s and Carter’s back. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Talking about great soldiers and people of Audie Murphy’s metal…go read about Smitty in WWII. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ledvm: Again…you have a lot learn. Ian Smith had a plan. He had the influence. He had the respect…both white and black. All he lacked was time. And, time was the key ingredient. Carter denied him time. The monkey is squarely on Great Britain’s and Carter’s back.[/QUOTE Nothing I said was false. Not has it been. It is clear you desire a racially pure one party system from both your post here and on domestic post. You cannot be taught. Ian Smith could be the greatest soldier I’m the world. He still led and supposed the racist regime that led to his downfall and the burning of his Nation State. The plan was to have whites control a voting bloc to block legislation through mandatory quote of seats. That is not disputable. This is and was never acceptable. You would not have accepted such if you were in the majority. Rhodesia refused to allow Blacks equal and just participation in Government for decade. This applied to minority party whites as well they forced into exile and prison Worse the condition was bf independence. The price was a war. They lost. Mugabe was snd us horrible. For everyone not in support of the RF, the White Majority did the same. You know who else was a WWII blood and Guts soldier? Joachim Peiper, who was also a racist and an evil one at that. War Service is not relevant to this conversation. The fact it blinds you in hero worship is a you problem. This is a discussion about what is the cause of Rhodesia specifically, and Sub/Sahara Africa in general falling to nationalist/communist movements. Those were symptoms; reactions to the failure of slicks and political integration from colonial rule. | |||
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the idiot child continues to babble  DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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He has called the Democratic Party evil. He had called for them to be expunged from political debate. This entire thread. He would allow a racial minority veto power in legislation. No, you two are political fools. He not you would permit a mandatory quote for a racial minority in Congress with legislative veto power. Or Heaven forbid Gay people having that quota. That was Ian Smith’s plan. Hey, at least I inspired you to type a full sentence. | |||
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| Administrator |
And what positives are being offered by the democrats?? | |||
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Saeed, I leave the political right and wrong of involvement to others. I have never made it a secrete, I enjoyed combat for the adrenaline rush and the combat pay, in that order. The reasons for being sent somewhere were never my worry. Yes, I expect we would be better off cleaning our own messes up, but thats not the way things work. My response was to our expert in everything, because he says so, heym. He said pres. Ford did nothing in Africa, he's wrong. | |||
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