Ah, more winning. The US economy shrank at a 0.3% annual pace from January through March . . . the first drop in three years. Consumer spending down sharply. GDP down 2.4% from the last three months of 2024. The US economy has contracted in the 1Q. So much winning . . .

Secretary Bessent yesterday claimed that Trump was cleverly deploying "strategic uncertainty".

Bessent needs to hurry up and resign before he is permanently stained professionally by the human tar baby.

If you know a way to fix the deficit with zero sacrifice let us know.

. . . grow the economy and cut spending. Please pass that along to Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
If you know a way to fix the deficit with zero sacrifice let us know.

Fix the deficit. That's amusing. Was trump making sacrifices and fixing the deficit when he increased the national debt by over $8 trillion from 2017-2021?

You morons will believe anything.

Sounds fair. We’ve heard a lot about doge cutting spending. I’m willing to give these tariffs a chance. We are the Mecca of consumers. Every country wants in our economy. For good or bad we spend a lot of money. We’re in the drivers seat. If the tariffs don’t work, drop them and move on. But we gotta try.

Hope your day gets better Mitch.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Hope your day gets better Mitch.

My day is fine. And, unlike you, I am actually awake and not dreaming.

You guys might find this interesting -

https://taxfoundation.org/rese...p-tariffs-trade-war/

“Altogether, Trump’s tariffs will raise $2.1 trillion in revenue over the next decade on a conventional basis ($1.5 trillion on a dynamic basis) and reduce US GDP by 0.8 percent, all before foreign retaliation. Including foreign retaliation announced as of April 10, the tariffs reduce US GDP by 1.0 percent.

The tariffs will reduce after-tax income by an average of 1.2 percent and amount to an average tax increase of $1,243 per US household in 2025. Our estimates of reductions in after-tax income may understate the harm to consumers by loss of choice as tariffs reach prohibitive rates.”

. . . nute, I simply cannot fathom how supposedly intelligent people here cannot connect the dots on this. I think it is emblematic of the whole Trump program, he preys on the ignorance and stupidity of his followers. They are prepared to believe him and discount and ignore the people that truly understand the issues. As they say, you simply cannot fix stupid.

A perfect example. Navarro is saying that a shrinking US economy is good news. The stock market indices are down between ~1% and 2% on the news. But the MAGAts will believe Navarro and ignore all the financial analysts on Wall Street. They are literally hopelessly stupid.

It's Biden's fault. trump just said so.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
But we gotta try.

Sorry. That's just not good enough. You just did this:

1: Things suck, SOMETHING has to be done
2: This random action is indeed SOMETHING
1+2: This random action has to be done!

By now, you have probably understood that tariffs are paid by the US importer, not by the exporting country, and that anyone who says differently is just full of shit.

Your leader still sticks to this idea, while he's not threatening to annex territories of allied NATO countries.

But still, you trust your leader, holding on to the hope that this indeed is "SOMETHING". What does it take for you to lose faith?

Strange for you to be so emotionally involved in our politics but…what’s your plan?

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Strange for you to be so emotionally involved in our politics but…what’s your plan?

Well... of course, chatting here is like this cartoon.
https://xkcd.com/386/

When Trump won last time, I was the only guy in Europe who wasn't batshit crazy who thought he would win. I had been around the AR forum and... tasted the atmosphere.

I actually thought, however, that Harris would win in 2024. Maybe I had stayed away from AR for too long.

In my line of work, I work in a company of professional services, a couple of thousand employees. My role description is vague, my job is to understand be business landscape and to look beyond the curve. Sometimes I fail, most times I don't. As long as I create more value than I cause damage, they allow me to be this free agent. A sizable company, and I'm the only person with this latitude. My paycheck is bigger than that of my manager (which he has a major problem with).

Maybe my job spills over to my free time. Or the other way around.

But aside from that, I'm a hunter with 40+ days hunting per year. In addition to that, I shoot shotguns, long rifles, and 9mm carbine. No pistols though.

But back to you: what does it take for you to lose faith in the miserable wretch you voted for?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . nute, I simply cannot fathom how supposedly intelligent people here cannot connect the dots on this. I think it is emblematic of the whole Trump program, he preys on the ignorance and stupidity of his followers. They are prepared to believe him and discount and ignore the people that truly understand the issues. As they say, you simply cannot fix stupid.

A perfect example. Navarro is saying that a shrinking US economy is good news. The stock market indices are down between ~1% and 2% on the news. But the MAGAts will believe Navarro and ignore all the financial analysts on Wall Street. They are literally hopelessly stupid.

They do. They are invested in misleading others.

and cnn says march spending soared -

weird --

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30...ing-march/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and cnn says march spending soared -

weird --

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30...ing-march/index.html

Panic buying before the prices go up. It's not like everybody got a 10% raise or bonus and are flush with cash.

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and cnn says march spending soared -

weird --

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30...ing-march/index.html

Panic buying before the prices go up. It's not like everybody got a 10% raise or bonus and are flush with cash.

what do you want me to say? work harder, work at a better place?

where was this advice from june of 2021? --

weird!

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
and cnn says march spending soared -

weird --

https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/30...ing-march/index.html

Panic buying before the prices go up. It's not like everybody got a 10% raise or bonus and are flush with cash.

what do you want me to say? work harder, work at a better place?

where was this advice from june of 2021? --

weird!

You could have said WHY it soared, but I guess the link did that. Seems like the implication was that the economy suddenly got to be the best the world has ever seen, when in fact it was an anomaly.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . nute, I simply cannot fathom how supposedly intelligent people here cannot connect the dots on this. I think it is emblematic of the whole Trump program, he preys on the ignorance and stupidity of his followers. They are prepared to believe him and discount and ignore the people that truly understand the issues. As they say, you simply cannot fix stupid.

A perfect example. Navarro is saying that a shrinking US economy is good news. The stock market indices are down between ~1% and 2% on the news. But the MAGAts will believe Navarro and ignore all the financial analysts on Wall Street. They are literally hopelessly stupid.

US voters have ZERO intelligence!

Come on fellers, be nice. It's not the poor Orange Boy's fault:

Trump began Wednesday repeating his explanation that the sagging economy is a “transition” voters knew to expect when they cast their ballots. “[W]e have to get rid of the Biden ‘Overhang,’” he wrote on Truth Social. “This will take a while, has NOTHING TO DO WITH TARIFFS, only that he left us with bad numbers, but when the boom begins, it will be like no other. BE PATIENT!!!"

The president told ABC News on Tuesday that his presidency is just beginning and is not entirely responsible for the latest economic data. “I've been here for three months,” he explained. “I just got here.”

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . nute, I simply cannot fathom how supposedly intelligent people here cannot connect the dots on this. I think it is emblematic of the whole Trump program, he preys on the ignorance and stupidity of his followers. They are prepared to believe him and discount and ignore the people that truly understand the issues. As they say, you simply cannot fix stupid.

A perfect example. Navarro is saying that a shrinking US economy is good news. The stock market indices are down between ~1% and 2% on the news. But the MAGAts will believe Navarro and ignore all the financial analysts on Wall Street. They are literally hopelessly stupid.

US voters have ZERO intelligence!

Sad, but true for 50% of those who bothered to vote, and all of those who couldn't get off their asses & go vote.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
If you know a way to fix the deficit with zero sacrifice let us know.

Well tariffs isn't the answer since they are likely to depress discretionary spending and they likely won't significantly increase economic activity due manufacturing coming back. Want to cause some pain? Don't extend most of the tax cuts from the 2017 Tax Cut and Jobs Act.

Tired of winning yet?

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
Sad, but true for 50% of those who bothered to vote, and all of those who couldn't get off their asses & go vote.

I used to think that way too. But then I started to think about who the non-voters would vote for. The democratic duty is not only about voting, it's also about continuously thinking about politics, holding politicians accountable, keeping the whole picture in mind and not only one's own wallet, and NOT being a faithful voter.

Never let a politician take your vote for granted, or they will view you as "voter cattle" that they own.

So who would 50% voters vote for if they aren't interested enough to vote? Scary thought. The first candidate who promises "free booze and wider sidewalks" maybe?

Tomahawker, you say you're willing to give tariffs a chance. For how long?

Have you considered how long it takes for new industry to get going? People invest in new factories to make widgets for the long term. It's not an overnight process.

You say we can drop the tariffs if they don't work. How long before Trump or his Republican lackeys acknowledge that they're not working?

One can give tariffs a chance, if they weren't insane. Or retarded. Or at the peak of the Dunning-Krüger curve.

Trade deficits are meaningless, because trade is an EXCHANGE between willing parties. Vietnam didn't steal your money. You got sneakers back. You can view it the other way around, they bought money and paid with sneakers. Now Vietnam has a sneaker trade deficit, which means that the US has been ripping them off?

And now the magas want the US consumer to pay additional taxes (yes, tariffs work that way) unless the vietnamese peasants start buying Chevy Suburbans from the US.

The average Joe Smith buys a lawnmower from Walmart, but Walmart buys nothing from Joe Smith (because he works as an undertaker, he has nothing that Walmart has any reason to buy). Is Walmart ripping Joe off? Is a small town barber ripping his customers off, unless they sell stuff to him personally?

This view on trade is retarded. There is no other word for it.

And this tariff bullshit - if it had any merit at all - doesn't even consider the idea of trading flows longer than two stages.

Forgive me for using my home turf as an example:
A: SKF in Sweden produces ball bearings, sells to the John Deere in the US
B: John Deere builds farming equipment using these ball bearings, sells these to Mexico.
C: Sweden buys corn from Mexico.

Question:
- Did the Sweden rip the US off in deal A? The US bought stuff so they have a trade deficit!
- Did the US rip Mexico off in deal B? Mexico bought stuff so they have a trade deficit!
- Did Sweden rip Mexico off in deal C? Sweden bought stuff so they have a trade deficit!

This is the beauty of trade. We Swedes excel at making ball bearings. We suck at growing corn, it doesn't grow up here. Everybody prosper.

Businesses thrive and nations prosper when politicians stay the fuck away from trying to micromanage trade.

quote:

Businesses thrive and nations prosper when politicians stay the fuck away from trying to micromanage trade.

It wasn't long ago that the Republicans here said the same thing. Boy, those days are gone.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Businesses thrive and nations prosper when politicians stay the fuck away from trying to micromanage trade.

It wasn't long ago that the Republicans here said the same thing. Boy, those days are gone.

. . . and what changed? All it took was the Orange Messiah saying tariffs are wonderful and the folks that HerrBerg is speaking of, the ones that do not hold politicians accountable, fail to keep the whole picture in mind, allow the GOP to take their vote for granted, all stood up and said Amen.

Im willing to set in this for a year, so roughly late next winter. For good or bad US citizens spend lots of money. We are THE economy everyone wants a slice of. Let’s hedge that get some parity.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Im willing to set in this for a year, so roughly late next winter. For good or bad US citizens spend lots of money. We are THE economy everyone wants a slice of. Let’s hedge that get some parity.

A few billions of US dollars later, we'll see.
Tariffs are not paid in yuan, pesos, or loonies.

Tariffs topped $17 billion for April.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news...-term-160856118.html

Whoopee fucking ding, how long will that run the the government? 2-3 hours?

The new GOP. Higher taxes are good for the economy.

Trump’s investment class is making no sacrifice and little contribution while I pay 17 percent in Fed taxes.