quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What we do know about January 6th is that violent crime was committed and seditious conspiracy was committed by their own words and deeds the perpetrators are guilty, black and white, set in stone, plain as day.

That there wasn't National Guard doesn't make them innocent, that the Capitol Police let them in doesn't make them innocent if there were six dozen FBI informants it wouldn't make a difference. Regardless what a jury said they actually did it. They are guilty.

So as far as I can see, the excuses made for those criminals are nothing better than an effort to justify winning at any cost. Rule of Law, Right and Wrong, Ethics, Virtue, Honesty, Honor,
all out the window.

Winning is what matters.
Stab em in the back, cut em off at the knees, drive them into the wall.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Some number chose not to vote and sons number voted for the other guy.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

5 MILLION missing votes - you are correct -

Back on the Orange Kool-Aid I see.

If you feel that an election did not go to your liking, we have a remedy for that, it is called a lawsuit and you file it in court. Oh wait, your dear leader did that and lost repeatedly.

You see, you need evidence in court, not rumors, conspiracy theories, talk of bamboo ballots or a USB drive that the Pillow Guy claims to have but can't produce. That is why you nutters kept losing in court....you have no evidence to prove your crackpot theories.

dude, i realize you are a MULTIPLE college dropout, and any math past algebra I is lost on you -
5 MILLION missing votes -

unless YOU are saying all 5 million of those dem votes are too sexist and racists to vote for harris --

oh, and at LEAST 1.5 BILLION dollars blown -- i mean, i get it, being on your side sucks, it's hard to defend -- NEVER in the history of american politics have 5 million people disappeared ---

wait, i heard that dems are filing an election interference claim, as conservatives padlocked the cemeteries

harris didn't win a SINGLE state that required voter ID ... HMMMM

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

5 MILLION missing votes - you are correct -

Back on the Orange Kool-Aid I see.

If you feel that an election did not go to your liking, we have a remedy for that, it is called a lawsuit and you file it in court. Oh wait, your dear leader did that and lost repeatedly.

You see, you need evidence in court, not rumors, conspiracy theories, talk of bamboo ballots or a USB drive that the Pillow Guy claims to have but can't produce. That is why you nutters kept losing in court....you have no evidence to prove your crackpot theories.

dude, i realize you are a MULTIPLE college dropout, and any math past algebra I is lost on you -
5 MILLION missing votes -

unless YOU are saying all 5 million of those dem votes are too sexist and racists to vote for harris --

oh, and at LEAST 1.5 BILLION dollars blown -- i mean, i get it, being on your side sucks, it's hard to defend -- NEVER in the history of american politics have 5 million people disappeared ---

wait, i heard that dems are filing an election interference claim, as conservatives padlocked the cemeteries

harris didn't win a SINGLE state that required voter ID ... HMMMM

We are talking about 2020, not 2024...please try to follow along.

quote:

MULTIPLE college dropout

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Some number chose not to vote and sons number voted for the other guy.

spell check isn't always your friend, bubba

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Exactly Fulvio.

We really need a reset from this on all sides.

Hence the reason we need complete public understanding.

Not complicated. Beat up a cop, go to jail.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

This I 100% agree with.

That said 1500 people did not beat up cops. I think those who did should do a lot of time and should not have gotten pardoned. I also think a lot of people were over prosecuted for their stupidity.

It's also my understanding that there were people who never entered the building were hunted down and prosecuted. Their homes were damaged by door kickers, etc to arrest them for simply being at the event. This was not right at all. Bad things happened that should not have. The fact is, there were paid informants and instigators placed by the FBI to geek things up. WRONG thing to do.

All this means the rest of us will never know the real truth. Pretty awful what some will do to cause problems. Even worse when it comes from the law enforcement side.

quote:

I believe that they are referring to due process involving interrogation of witnesses brought before the committee! Were lawyers who represented those interrogated by the committee allowed to cross examine/question the witnesses? Or was that privilege granted only to committee members

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What we do know about January 6th is that violent crime was committed and seditious conspiracy was committed by their own words and deeds the perpetrators are guilty, black and white, set in stone, plain as day.

That there wasn't National Guard doesn't make them innocent, that the Capitol Police let them in doesn't make them innocent if there were six dozen FBI informants it wouldn't make a difference. Regardless what a jury said they actually did it. They are guilty.

So as far as I can see, the excuses made for those criminals are nothing better than an effort to justify winning at any cost. Rule of Law, Right and Wrong, Ethics, Virtue, Honesty, Honor,
all out the window.

Winning is what matters.
Stab em in the back, cut em off at the knees, drive them into the wall.

THIS^^^^^? DUE PROCES WAS FOLLOWED, THEY WERE CONVICTED OR PLEADED GUILTY. PERIOD! All the arguments to the contrary are pure BULLSHIT.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Some number chose not to vote and sons number voted for the other guy.

quote:

We are talking about 2020, not 2024...please try to follow along.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Some number chose not to vote and sons number voted for the other guy.

spell check isn't always your friend, bubba

Phones do not have spell check. Besides I obviously spelled some right the first time and son. I know you cannot rebut the position. Therefore, go to typos.

Again, the explanation so any facts to the contrary is some number stayed home. Some number close to vote for the other guy.

However, you are free to play in unsupported conspiracy.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

We are talking about 2020, not 2024...please try to follow along.

Actually, we are looking at all the election data for the last 50 years to plot the graphs. Now we have a data point after 2020 that “mysteriously” fell back into the normal trends. Stick your head in the sand if you want to…but the data highlights 2020 as an anomaly.

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What we do know about January 6th is that violent crime was committed and seditious conspiracy was committed by their own words and deeds the perpetrators are guilty, black and white, set in stone, plain as day.

That there wasn't National Guard doesn't make them innocent, that the Capitol Police let them in doesn't make them innocent if there were six dozen FBI informants it wouldn't make a difference. Regardless what a jury said they actually did it. They are guilty.

So as far as I can see, the excuses made for those criminals are nothing better than an effort to justify winning at any cost. Rule of Law, Right and Wrong, Ethics, Virtue, Honesty, Honor,
all out the window.

Winning is what matters.
Stab em in the back, cut em off at the knees, drive them into the wall.

THIS^^^^^? DUE PROCES WAS FOLLOWED, THEY WERE CONVICTED OR PLEADED GUILTY. PERIOD! All the arguments to the contrary are pure BULLSHIT.

Who here disagrees with JDollar and I and who here supports Trump's pardons?

Come on, put it in print that you support the destruction of our Rule of Law, the attack of Law Enforcement and the Sedition that was committed on January 6th?!?!?!

Say it.

Don't kid yourselves, when the other side uses your precident to justify their similar crimes, you are guilty of paving the way for them.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
You are minimalizing the conduct of Trump and the 1500 convicted offenders for political purposes....you lack any sort of credibility. You are lying to forward your political agenda. It is sad to see Lane.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
You are minimalizing the conduct of Trump and the 1500 convicted offenders for political purposes....you lack any sort of credibility. You are lying to forward your political agenda. It is sad to see Lane.

Happy with my stance. And my credibility is fine — it holds up every day in business where credibility is measured. Your judgment of me is laughable in my eyes or anybody’s who actually matters. Calling people liars on a computer screen is poor form — especially when are wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Where does that anger come from

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
Finally, back to the OP…there was more to what went down on J6 that has been revealed.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
Nonetheless, what I saw on live TV was enough to form an opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
No, the courts did not say that about the 2020 election.

Most courts said Trump did not even state facts that made a claim of fraud.

A few courts found as a matter of law voting procedures were valid.

Your characterization of the courts involvement w the election is inaccurate.

As far as pardons go, it is his sole, vested power. He did it.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:
Some number chose not to vote and sons number voted for the other guy.

Another one who passed basic college algebra with a 70.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
The courts pretty much said that there was nothing they could do with regards to the 2020 election after the fact.

The procedures put in place were followed to the level of the law. There is no statutory language about what to do if after the fact you can find some anomaly but cannot point to a specific person’s wrongdoing. That’s what this “due process” discussion is avoiding.

The whole disparate impact analysis thing that is going on in some civil cases is an attempt to get around that- and most of the folks on the right really disagree with disparate impact analysis in courts.

In this situation, the right got caught in a situation where there was no legal remedy and given all the privacy protections, no way of identifying specific wrongdoing.

The guys on 1/6 who got arrested for trespassing were kind of railroaded. The guys who were convicted of violence, sedition, or obstruction did not deserve pardon.

The trespassers getting pardoned and the guys getting pardoned for obstructing government proceedings are a bad precedent.

Trump and Biden’s wholesale pardons are not a good thing.

Trump’s at least have some historical precedent- Washington and post civil war a lot of pardons were issued in the name of settling a political disagreement.

We are now seeing why Ford’s preemptive pardon of Nixon was a bad idea. While I think a simple majority agreed with it at the time, a simple majority don’t agree with what Biden did.

While I am good with seeing where Trump goes with things, I don’t think his pardoning all the 1/6 types was a good idea- even if he said he was going to do it and he won election with that being part of his baggage.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
What we do know about January 6th is that violent crime was committed and seditious conspiracy was committed by their own words and deeds the perpetrators are guilty, black and white, set in stone, plain as day.

That there wasn't National Guard doesn't make them innocent, that the Capitol Police let them in doesn't make them innocent if there were six dozen FBI informants it wouldn't make a difference. Regardless what a jury said they actually did it. They are guilty.

So as far as I can see, the excuses made for those criminals are nothing better than an effort to justify winning at any cost. Rule of Law, Right and Wrong, Ethics, Virtue, Honesty, Honor,
all out the window.

Winning is what matters.
Stab em in the back, cut em off at the knees, drive them into the wall.

THIS^^^^^? DUE PROCES WAS FOLLOWED, THEY WERE CONVICTED OR PLEADED GUILTY. PERIOD! All the arguments to the contrary are pure BULLSHIT.

Who here disagrees with JDollar and I and who here supports Trump's pardons?

Come on, put it in print that you support the destruction of our Rule of Law, the attack of Law Enforcement and the Sedition that was committed on January 6th?!?!?!

Say it.

Don't kid yourselves, when the other side uses your precident to justify their similar crimes, you are guilty of paving the way for them.

This is what I believe: I believe there was major injustice in the 2020 election cycle. I believe many good people were outraged by it. I believe some made poor choices. I believe the heavy hand of the federal prosecutorial system with unlimited resources abused its power in the majority of the cases. While definitely a handful of the convicted probably needed to stay in jail…many if not most didn’t. Did they make mistakes? Yes. Don’t we all…???

So yes Scott, in the context of the 2020 saga along with the history of how this pardoning system has worked, I am “OK” with the President pardoning these folks. I will conclude with I have never advocated for jailing anyone in politics — not Hillary or anyone else.