He cut the cables and blamed Russia!

I bet he did this too as he saw Trump forgot about him!

You are becoming as bad as the MAGAts, you promote any unfounded conspiracy theory that you find, as long as it supports Russia

Russia is to blame for starting the war.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Russia is to blame for starting the war.

The CIA’s puppet asked for it.

For not complying with his country’s agreement!

Typical America!

They invade Iraq because Saddam was in violation of a UN resolution.

At the same time they bend over for the Zionists despite the fact they are violations of almost 100 UN resolutions!

A perfect example of FUCKWITS!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed

For not complying with his country’s agreement

You mean the 1994 one in which Russia committed to respect Ukraines boarders and sovereignty and agreed not to use military or financial intimidation … ?

The one they broke by invading Crimea?

The one they broke by funding and training separatists in east Ukraine?

How about the passenger plane they shot down?

…but carry right on with your delusions.

The UAE gets too much money from Russia.... They have sold out...as Arabs do.

Check out Iran Air 655!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Check out Iran Air 655!

A tragic mistake, but that doesn't alter the fact that you are wrong about Ukraine. Russia signed up to respecting Ukraine sovereignty, to respecting her boarders, not to financially or militarily intimidate Ukraine.

Invaded Crimea - agreement violated by Russia
Armed and funded rebels - agreement violated by Russia
Invaded Ukraine - agreement violated by Russia

... but yeah, its all the wests fault, or zelenski, or the CIA, or the bogyman

Trump has given Putin all the parts he is occupying!

Told Zelensky to FO!

[QUOTE] When Stability and Predictability Mean War

The most accurate description of Putin's nature is: Calculated. He was always prepared and concentrated. He's very disciplined. He knew what he wanted. And he's very well organized.

He spent nine years planning to launch the Russian-Georgian war of 2008. In the free world, there is no one similar who would spend that length of time preparing for something, leaving aside the fact that most Western politicians never stay in power for so long.


When it came to waging war against Ukraine, Putin was planning it since at least 2003. There were 19 years between the Tuzla crisis and the full-scale invasion in 2022. Who else could spend 19 years preparing for an attack?

That speaks to who he is: Calculated, organized, detail-oriented, disciplined, and patient. /QUOTE]

https://www.newsweek.com/i-put...-crimes-face-1867265

This though is what I don't understand. I was born during the veitnam war. My father just missed conscription for it due too the month of his birth.
All my life Ive listened as the US politicians have self proclaimed themselves the champions of freedom and democracy.
Ive watches the US has tried to bring democracy to places that don't want it, and seen the pressure it has put on our nation to join them in those affairs. Which generally failed bevcause the inhabitants didn't want it, or were not ready for it.

And yet here is a nation that wants it, is prepared to fight for it itself, that doesn't want American troops on the ground. Just the support to protect itself.
And the US gos Meh.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
[QUOTE] When Stability and Predictability Mean War

The most accurate description of Putin's nature is: Calculated. He was always prepared and concentrated. He's very disciplined. He knew what he wanted. And he's very well organized.

He spent nine years planning to launch the Russian-Georgian war of 2008. In the free world, there is no one similar who would spend that length of time preparing for something, leaving aside the fact that most Western politicians never stay in power for so long.


When it came to waging war against Ukraine, Putin was planning it since at least 2003. There were 19 years between the Tuzla crisis and the full-scale invasion in 2022. Who else could spend 19 years preparing for an attack?

That speaks to who he is: Calculated, organized, detail-oriented, disciplined, and patient. /QUOTE]

https://www.newsweek.com/i-put...-crimes-face-1867265

This though is what I don't understand. I was born during the veitnam war. My father just missed conscription for it due too the month of his birth.
All my life Ive listened as the US politicians have self proclaimed themselves the champions of freedom and democracy.
Ive watches the US has tried to bring democracy to places that don't want it, and seen the pressure it has put on our nation to join them in those affairs. Which generally failed bevcause the inhabitants didn't want it, or were not ready for it.

And yet here is a nation that wants it, is prepared to fight for it itself, that doesn't want American troops on the ground. Just the support to protect itself.
And the US gos Meh.

Absolutely, 100%. The US voting public are fickle, whilst the US has ( generally) been a beacon for democracy and freedom all it takes is a politician blowing smoke up the electorates backside ( and arguably an incompetent opposition) for the wind to change.

Going back to the Budapest memorandum, the US and the UK were signatories to that too. All signatories committed to the independence one sovereignty of Ukraine ( and Belarus ).

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Trump has given Putin all the parts he is occupying!

Told Zelensky to FO!

That was always going to happen tho wasn’t it. But Zelenski has them both in a slight bind by still being in control of some Russian real estate. No way that Putin will ever agree to the status quo and loose face over that.

As I see it, the US electorate is sick of relatively high taxes, never ending requests for “more” and a generalized weariness with no one being willing to thank us and step up to the plate.

Ukraine to some extent got itself stuck by picking one side of the US political system and getting caught at it… Paying Hunter Biden big bucks and protecting him/not throwing him out with the trash when the political winds changed got Ukraine, unfortunately, seen as being the lapdogs of the democrat party. Adding in the lack of oversight of the funds (admittedly not only Ukraine’s fault) and the traditional corruption endemic in ex combloc states (they can’t account for $100,000,000,000 per Zelensky) has gotten a lot of Americans sick of the whole thing

You must also understand that isolationism is a very comfortable position for a large number of US citizens.

The Ukraine war has caused a large number of economic issues and a goodly number of Americans just want it gone.

I agree that Ukraine is something that we should support- but having Europeans tell us what we need to give more because the safety of Europe is at stake tends to make Americans with our cultural rugged individualism want to say “then shut up and you pay for it! It’s your safety…”

Certainly Trump’s use of the desire to return to 50’s type economic status in the US has caused issues here in what should have been a no brainer support.

Looking at the whole USAID fiasco also shows what happens- what is sold to the public has consistently been not what ends up occurring.

Unfortunately, Ukraine’s fight occurred right when US trust in our government is at a low point.

There is a large part of the US electorate that sees any warfare as bad.

There is also a large part that is very much in the selfish “what’s in it for us?” camp.

That Trump and the republicans and the democrats have switched roles in their view of geopolitical use of force is rather unusual. I do wonder if GW Bush essentially killed that wing of the GOP, and now they are more democrat…

It’s not as simple as you guys are seeming to imply here.

None of this has anything to do w Hunter.

I do not agree w a peace deal that allows Russia to maintain land from this incursion. I am not the President.

Now any treaty the U.S. signs off on has to be approved by the Senate. I think 60 votes.

And too be fair DOC, The bit I do agree with, is that the EU/UK combined need to step up and take more control/contribute more and this will force that I think. I also thought it was bang on last time around when The US rightly questioned the use of Russian oil and gas in spite of its relationship with the US.

The European countries collectivly have contributed a similar amount to Ukraine as the US, however a lot of it is financial rather than equipment.

I don't for a moment disagree that all states should be meeting the 2% of GDP target. It's the southern European countries in particular who seem to have difficulty with this concept. Many of the N European states, in particular those who used to have the Russian boot on their necks spend a lot more.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:
The European countries collectivly have contributed a similar amount to Ukraine as the US, however a lot of it is financial rather than equipment.

I don't for a moment disagree that all states should be meeting the 2% of GDP target. It's the southern European countries in particular who seem to have difficulty with this concept. Many of the N European states, in particular those who used to have the Russian boot on their necks spend a lot more.

Most of it as bribes to help the Ukraine corruption system!