Your thoughts? I remember the days of Dr. Kevorkian and the upset he caused. Which US states allow assisted suicide? I think there are a few? I made one comment within the article.


Netherlands to allow euthanasia for young children through legal loophole

By Cassy Fiano-Chesser | April 24, 2023 , 06:44am
child hospital euthanasia assisted suicide

The Netherlands, one of the most pro-euthanasia countries in the world, is set to allow euthanasia for children of all ages, further expanding its already-expansive program. The plan will be implemented within the year, according to Health Minister Ernst Kuipers. The NL Times reported that the change will not need to have approval from both legislative chambers.

NTD News reported that the Dutch government had announced plans to expand euthanasia to children between one and 12 years old. Currently, children older than 12 or younger than one are eligible to be euthanized; now, children of all ages will be permitted to die by euthanasia.

“This is a very complex subject that deals with harrowing situations that you would not wish on anyone,” Dutch Health Minister Ernst Kuipers said, according to NTD News. “I am pleased that after intensive consultation with all parties involved, we have come to a solution with which we can help these terminally-ill children, their parents and also their practitioners.”

The only children eligible will be terminally ill children, for whom palliative care brings no relief. Yet parents and doctors can make the decision together, if the child is “unable to consent.”

According to The Conversation, “Under the proposal, it will remain against the law for doctors in the Netherlands to actively end the life of a child under the age of 12. However, a force majeure clause gives prosecutors the discretion not to prosecute in exceptional circumstances.”

The program involving infants, which will now be expanded, is called the Groningen Protocol. Enacted in 2004, it allows infant euthanasia if parents and doctors agree, and if the baby is experiencing current suffering of is expected to experience future suffering. As Wesley J. Smith previously explained, when the Netherlands began considering expanding its euthanasia protocol:

There is no reason to think the “terminally ill” limitation will last, much less be enforced. After all, babies in the Netherlands are euthanized under the Groningen Protocol, both because of terminal illness and serious disability.

Children are already subjected to terminal sedation — that is, being put in an artificial coma and dehydrated to death. <--- This seems inhumane to me.

As it stands, the Netherlands already is seeing records deaths from euthanasia. There was a 14% increase in euthanasia deaths from 2021 to 2022, with 8,720 people having been euthanized last year. Increasing numbers of couples were allowed to be euthanized together, and 115 people were killed simply due to psychiatric illness.

Considering that the Netherlands seems eager to increasingly embrace euthanasia, it is unsurprising that the percentage of deaths made up of people killed by their doctors is rising as well. Rather than seeing it as a tragedy to be avoided, this increase in euthanasia deaths was celebrated by Dutch politicians.

Editor’s Note 4/25/23: This article was updated to include more details.

We think we know everything.
Specifically we think we know when to end human life while still in the womb, some of those in prison, some at war, some just on the street. Now we know when to end a sick kids life?

We kill to much and as I've said elsewhere, I don't think we should at all. This topic is horrifying.

It is a very sensitive subject for sure.

People don’t want to admit it, but doctors have been helping patients end their misery for a long time!

Once the government gets involved, the shit would hit the fan.

JACK CADE: I thank you, good people:–
there shall be no money;
all shall eat and drink on my score;
and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers,
and worship me their lord.

DICK: The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
JACK CADE: I thank you, good people:–
there shall be no money;
all shall eat and drink on my score;
and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers,
and worship me their lord.

DICK: The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.

I always love you idiots who float this quote.

You know it's because they understood that the lawyers were the only ones who could stop them, right?

A lawyer will do anything to win a case,
sometimes he will even tell the truth.
Patrick Murray

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
A lawyer will do anything to win a case,
sometimes he will even tell the truth.
Patrick Murray

I've been practicing law for over 30 years and it would never occur to me to make a misrepresentation to a court. And, I've rarely seen it happen. There is always going to be another case in front of whatever court the lawyer is practicing before. No lawyer I know is willing to burn bridges with a judge by lying to him/her. It just doesn't happen. You do it once and you are screwed in that court forever.

That said, would you want a lawyer representing you that was not willing to do everything to win your case? That's what you want when you hire a lawyer, right? Short of lying to the tribunal. What do you know about it other than providing us with these pithy quotes?

Quotes like the one you posted come about because in every single case the parties all have different ideas about what the facts are that control the outcome. It's why we have a court system, trials and a jury to decide.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
A lawyer will do anything to win a case,
sometimes he will even tell the truth.
Patrick Murray

I've been practicing law for over 30 years and it would never occur to me to make a misrepresentation to a court. And, I've rarely seen it happen. There is always going to be another case in front of whatever court the lawyer is practicing before. No lawyer I know is willing to burn bridges with a judge by lying to him/her. It just doesn't happen. You do it once and you are screwed in that court forever.

That said, would you want a lawyer representing you that was not willing to do everything to win your case? That's what you want when you hire a lawyer, right? Short of lying to the tribunal. What do you know about it other than providing us with these pithy quotes?

Quotes like the one you posted come about because in every single case the parties all have different ideas about what the facts are that control the outcome. It's why we have a court system, trials and a jury to decide.

Personally I enjoy Daggaboy’s rants about lawyers. They suggest to me that at some point in the past a malpractice lawyer, a divorce lawyer or some other lawyer, perhaps more than one, ripped him a well-deserved new one. He has always come across to me as someone that has a double dose of asshole.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
A lawyer will do anything to win a case,
sometimes he will even tell the truth.
Patrick Murray

I've been practicing law for over 30 years and it would never occur to me to make a misrepresentation to a court. And, I've rarely seen it happen. There is always going to be another case in front of whatever court the lawyer is practicing before. No lawyer I know is willing to burn bridges with a judge by lying to him/her. It just doesn't happen. You do it once and you are screwed in that court forever.

That said, would you want a lawyer representing you that was not willing to do everything to win your case? That's what you want when you hire a lawyer, right? Short of lying to the tribunal. What do you know about it other than providing us with these pithy quotes?

Quotes like the one you posted come about because in every single case the parties all have different ideas about what the facts are that control the outcome. It's why we have a court system, trials and a jury to decide.

Personally I enjoy Daggaboy’s rants about lawyers. They suggest to me that at some point in the past a malpractice lawyer, a divorce lawyer or some other lawyer, perhaps more than one, ripped him a well-deserved new one. He has always come across to me as someone that has a double dose of asshole.

Rants about lawyers roll off my back at this point.

Everybody hates all lawyers except the lawyer that represents them when their tit is in the wringer. Then, we are their best friend.

Nature of the beast.

What I’ve learned over the years… judges are conscientious… not like lawyers, who give opinions. – Richard Cordray

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
What I’ve learned over the years… judges are conscientious… not like lawyers, who give opinions. – Richard Cordray

But, all judges are lawyers.

The lawyer’s truth is not Truth, but consistency or a consistent expediency. – Henry David Thoreau

I totally get why everybody hates lawyers. If you have to hire one, you've been thrown into a system that you know virtually nothing about and it is probably going to cost you a bunch of money.

But, you come to us when you need help. It's the system. What's the alternative when somebody fucks you over in a business deal, a car wreck or whatever?

Saeed cries about lawyers all the time but I don't have an understanding of how legal disputes in the UAE are resolved? I'm guessing lawyers and courts?

If anybody has a better idea about how to resolve disputes, post up.

Dugga, you're just a whiner using this place to whine.

The law was made for one thing alone,
for the exploitation of those who don’t understand it. – Bertolt Brecht

Just one pithy quote after another- none of which relevant….

Politics is the art of anesthesia.

Mehmet Murat Ildan

WTF does that mean and who Murat Ildan? Your attempt at blank verse poetry really falls short and is pathetic…

An anesthesiologist is flying across the country for a conference, when a flight attendant comes running down the aisle, shouting, "Is anyone on board a anesthesiologist?!?!"

The anesthesiologist raises his hand and announces his presence, and asks what the problem is, and whether anyone is sick.

"Oh, no, no one's sick, but there's a surgeon up in first class who needs his table adjusted."

. . . Daggaboy, an aspiring yet unapologetically sad Don Rickels wannabe.

A man was sent to hell for his sins. As he was being led into the pits for an eternity of torment, he saw a lawyer passionately kissing a beautiful woman. “What a joke!” he said. “I have to roast in flames for all eternity and that lawyer gets to spend it with that beautiful woman.” Satan jabbed the man with his pitchfork and snarled, “Who are you to question that woman’s punishment?”

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
The law was made for one thing alone,
for the exploitation of those who don’t understand it. – Bertolt Brecht

The only thing lawyers know about law is how to make money!

Legal here and becoming more liberal, got to get rid of those useless mouths we have to feed. Even some mental conditions qualify you, which begs the question, if you have a mental condition, are you competent to decide ? We call it MAID, everything has to have an acronym, which stands for Medical Assistance In dying.

https://www.canada.ca/en/healt...ssistance-dying.html

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
An anesthesiologist is flying across the country for a conference, when a flight attendant comes running down the aisle, shouting, "Is anyone on board a anesthesiologist?!?!"

The anesthesiologist raises his hand and announces his presence, and asks what the problem is, and whether anyone is sick.

"Oh, no, no one's sick, but there's a surgeon up in first class who needs his table adjusted."

Hope your income doesn’t depend on your comedic ability. It’s almost as bad as your blank verse poetry….

So Jeff and Sue meet at a conference, and after a few drinks, they decide to head up to a hotel room. After concluding a passionate night of lovemaking, Sue gets up and walks over to the sink to wash up.

Jeff, while observing, says "Hey, you must be a surgeon!"

Sue looks up front the sink with a smile on here face. "Why yes, how did you know?"

"Well," says Jeff, "it's about how meticulously you're washing your hands."

"Ah," says Sue, "well then you must be an anesthesiologist!"

"Wow, that's right!" says Jeff, "how did you figure that out?"

"Well," says Sue, "it became obvious last night.
I didn't feel a thing!"

Mjines has it right. At sometime, Daggaboy got a result that burned him.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
So Jeff and Sue meet at a conference, and after a few drinks, they decide to head up to a hotel room. After concluding a passionate night of lovemaking, Sue gets up and walks over to the sink to wash up.

Jeff, while observing, says "Hey, you must be a surgeon!"

Sue looks up front the sink with a smile on here face. "Why yes, how did you know?"

"Well," says Jeff, "it's about how meticulously you're washing your hands."

"Ah," says Sue, "well then you must be an anesthesiologist!"

"Wow, that's right!" says Jeff, "how did you figure that out?"

"Well," says Sue, "it became obvious last night.
I didn't feel a thing!"

That’s hilarious………

quote:

Originally posted by Schrodinger:
Mjines has it right. At sometime, Daggaboy got a result that burned him.

Two lawyers were walking along negotiating a case.
“Look,” said one, “let’s be honest with each other.”
“Okay, you first,” replied the other.
That was the end of the discussion.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
JACK CADE: I thank you, good people:–
there shall be no money;
all shall eat and drink on my score;
and I will apparel them all in one livery,
that they may agree like brothers,
and worship me their lord.

DICK: The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.

I always love you idiots who float this quote.

You know it's because they understood that the lawyers were the only ones who could stop them, right?

I just love it when the ignorant, who have never read King Henry VI, Part 2, quote these words as if Shakespeare disapproved of lawyers. In fact, the playwright put these words in the mouth of a villainous character named Dick the Butcher, one of the leaders of a rebellion against the king. Dick joined in the burning of books and murder of literate people in an effort to impose an anti-intellectual totalitarian government. Dick saw lawyers as the first line of defense against his aims.

And so they are.

As for euthanasia, I believe people should have sovereignty over their own bodies.

The law often allows what honor forbids. – Bernard Joseph Saurin

I started the thread thinking we should treat each other like we would treat our loved dog. Then I read on and at this point I think we should do it simply as a public hygiene measure.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
As for euthanasia, I believe people should have sovereignty over their own bodies.

To what end?

A depressed and suicidal person should blow their brains out?
A cancer victim should just say, " fuck it" an O.D.?

"My kid has complications and may not survive so let's cut to the chase!"?

I was struck by the reaction of my dear 65 year old friend when his 80 something year olds mother was dying. Despite a very plain DNR order, he wanted to resist and make all effort to preserve her time here on earth. Simply put my friend didn't want to let mom go.

An older brother of mine tried to use some bullshit line on me about how we come into this world alone and we leave this world alone.
Horseshit.

Yeah some sailors die alone in the deep blue sea and some cowboys met their Maker on the lonesome prairie, but most of us go in and out of here surrounded by others who care, a few care very much.

Life is special and a treasure. Even in the worst human being, their expiration comes with dashed hopes and dreams, failed expectations, crushed plans.

He may not want to let his mother go, but we all have to. The mother, the cancer patient should decide.

The suicide person is going to do it anyway.

The terminally ill and dying child, I tend to lean toward parents and treating doctor. Most DNR or medical living wills require 2 physicians to assert within medical certainty recovery is not foreseeable. I could accept a similar structure.

The law in most states does not allow it.

I had to decide to take my mother off life support. She did not have a living will. The statute put the choice on me. Some family agreed others did not.

Maybe we cannot articulate the edges. Thus, the blanket state bans with hospice and palliative care a painful if necessary middle ground.

He did. I was just struck or moved by his resistance to the immovable.

As to lawyers…while I usually agree with Duggaboye…I am going to side with Mike Mitchell here.

One of my best friends in the world is an attorney. I bet Mike even knows or knows of him.

How did we become friends? He represented me in a bad business break-up and basically saved my life as I presently know it. That was nearly 20 years ago and rarely does a week go by that we don’t talk. It helps that we have common hobbies but I routinely drive to Dallas just to have lunch with him…great guy.

Yep…most of us don’t want attorneys in our lives (mainly because they usually come with turmoil and no one relishes turmoil) until we need one…then we want them really bad.

No man’s error becomes his own Law; nor obliges him to persist in it. – Thomas Hobbes

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
We think we know everything.
Specifically we think we know when to end human life while still in the womb, some of those in prison, some at war, some just on the street. Now we know when to end a sick kids life?

We kill to much and as I've said elsewhere, I don't think we should at all. This topic is horrifying.

Euthanasia:

This is a horrible subject. It is horrible as it pertains horses and it is abhorrent as it pertains to human life. As it pertains to children…it makes my heart twist in knots. I tend to agree 85% with Scott.

I disagree on 2 points: 1) certainly as a penalty to some crime

2) Adults who are suffering and terminal: I believe that they should have the right but maybe with a built in “making sure period.”

As to euthanizing your child…I can’t imagine the heart and soul who could do such…I would euthanize myself first.

As we know, euthanasia must be conducted by someone else. It is not the same as suicide.

In remembering the Dr Kevorkian days he set things up so that the person wanting to end their lives had to do the actual deed.

When I was employed I had to deal with some cases that involved children near beaten to death and in a coma in hospital. These were children that were never going to regain normal life. Probably some of them did die. Others were probably kept alive on machinery. Again, these were crimes and not the result of accidents, etc.

Sure makes you think hard about life and the things that happen. For me these things were always the result of crime and not say, a family member desperately terminally ill. I will never forget the faces of the victims I investigated for as long as I live.

Is there room for euthanasia? Yes, I do think so but not sure who could do the assist? I don't think I could. How would a person forget the faces?