https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25...n-alabama/index.html

Setting aside the usual capital punishment arguments....

Remind me again why we just don't shoot these people in the head with a 5.56mm or .45 ACP?

Cheap, quick and absolutely certain.

I'd much rather be shot than have some mask strapped to my head and then have gas pumped in....sounds awful.

The Soviets used the little 7.62 Nagant. The Chinese allegedly used Maks.

Then there was this spectacular practice which I only recently encountered while reading about the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857.

Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon which is then fired, resulting in death. George Carter Stent described the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some forty or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen.[1]

Blowing from a gun was a reported means of execution as long ago as the 16th century and was used until the 20th century. The method was used by the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries, from as early as 1509 across their empire from Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka)[2] to Mozambique[3] to Brazil.[4] The Mughals used the method throughout the 17th century and into the 18th, particularly against rebels.[5]

This method of execution is most closely associated with the British East India Company rule in India. Following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, "blowing from a gun" was a method the British used to execute rebels[6] as well as for Indian sepoys who were found guilty of desertion.[7] Using the methods previously practised by the Mughals, the British began implementing blowing from guns in the latter half of the 18th century.[8]

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
The Soviets used the little 7.62 Nagant. The Chinese allegedly used Maks.

Then there was this spectacular practice which I only recently encountered while reading about the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857.

Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon which is then fired, resulting in death. George Carter Stent described the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some forty or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen.[1]

Blowing from a gun was a reported means of execution as long ago as the 16th century and was used until the 20th century. The method was used by the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries, from as early as 1509 across their empire from Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka)[2] to Mozambique[3] to Brazil.[4] The Mughals used the method throughout the 17th century and into the 18th, particularly against rebels.[5]

This method of execution is most closely associated with the British East India Company rule in India. Following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, "blowing from a gun" was a method the British used to execute rebels[6] as well as for Indian sepoys who were found guilty of desertion.[7] Using the methods previously practised by the Mughals, the British began implementing blowing from guns in the latter half of the 18th century.[8]

Gotta figure do-overs were pretty uncommon.

If we're going to do executions, which I'm in favor of in a limited number of cases when due care has been taken to make sure of the guilt, it should be done as efficiently and painlessly as possible, not for the benefit of the executed but for us.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Mitchell:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/25...n-alabama/index.html

Setting aside the usual capital punishment arguments....

Remind me again why we just don't shoot these people in the head with a 5.56mm or .45 ACP?

Cheap, quick and absolutely certain.

I'd much rather be shot than have some mask strapped to my head and then have gas pumped in....sounds awful.

Agreed. The firing squad was very effective, 100% certain and cheap. the only downside was 1 the cleanup and then finding people to actually man the squad.

To be honest, I would take the bullet to the brain stem.

I’m not sure the point is a peaceful death. I hope he was scared shitless.

quote:

Originally posted by Navaluk:
I’m not sure the point is a peaceful death. I hope he was scared shitless.

Really?!?!

A complete stranger to you, you don't know the specifics of the case nor were you the aggrieved or a juror and you hope it was unpleasant? Maybe you didn't think that comment thru.

Most of us would rather have our pets, "put to sleep" rather than shot, stabbed, hung or beheaded. Wouldn't that be a sweet final moment to be there when our dearly loved bird dog was hung with a rope or fastened to the guillotine!

So if dear old Spot merits a peaceful death or if mean old Fido is at least euthanized, shouldn't our fellow man at least have that if not for them then for us, (as was said above,).

If the societal norm is to do to others as they do to us Id like to see a show of hands who's ready and willing to rape and mutilate little kids of the enemy because the enemy did that to ours.

Anybody here think Jesus pursued murder and revenge on the people that murdered Him or advocated for His murder?

Bring shot is not a bad way to go. I have had to put down pets (dogs, cats horses etc.) because a vet is not always available or even wanted. I have used pistols and rifles to do it, there is no suffering. As LM said a bullet to the brain is instant and positive. The brain has no nerve endings that feel pain. So between the speed and no pain nerve endings it is essentially painless. Like I said the only issue is it is very messy and most people cannot take the mess it creates.

And yes I do believe in the death penalty, however, I also think it should be reserved for the very worst of crimes.

Really.

The specifics of the case are what they are. I am comfortable with the definition of "punishment."
And no I do not want a copy of the "watchtower" thanks.

Rule .303

Bill, that's 7.2 tokarov not nagant

Having worked in chemical plants for a good quarter of my life, the biggest talked about threats were confined spaces and nitrogen exposure in same. Many chemical processes are halted when under a nitrogen blanket. There's many tales of people dying from being exposed, without knowing, by entering a confined space, taking a breath or two, and collapsing - there's even the tale of three men dying, before the 4th put on rescue gear.

There are euthanasia "pods" offering nitrogen as a peaceful and painless passing. It certainly is less "cruel" than hanging, firing squad, or ole sparky - I expect the guy will lay there, breath, passout, and expire quickly and pretty painlessly - sure beats the vacuum chamber / co2 poisoning that they use on stray dogs, as co2 triggers a fight or flight response .. Nitrogen? nope, we already breathe 70+% nitrogen and it won't trigger a suffocation response

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
The Soviets used the little 7.62 Nagant. The Chinese allegedly used Maks.

Then there was this spectacular practice which I only recently encountered while reading about the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857.

Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon which is then fired, resulting in death. George Carter Stent described the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some forty or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen.[1]

Blowing from a gun was a reported means of execution as long ago as the 16th century and was used until the 20th century. The method was used by the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries, from as early as 1509 across their empire from Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka)[2] to Mozambique[3] to Brazil.[4] The Mughals used the method throughout the 17th century and into the 18th, particularly against rebels.[5]

This method of execution is most closely associated with the British East India Company rule in India. Following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, "blowing from a gun" was a method the British used to execute rebels[6] as well as for Indian sepoys who were found guilty of desertion.[7] Using the methods previously practised by the Mughals, the British began implementing blowing from guns in the latter half of the 18th century.[8]

How many could effectively be done at one time if lined up properly?

ANY gas other than Oxygen will do all as long the inspired concentration is greater than 85%. The ideal gas would be carbon monoxide at a 6+% inspired concentration. Odorless, colorless, tasteless. You fall asleep and never wake up. Downside is it and pure nitrogen can take 8-10 minutes to kill but, again, it’s painless. You just fall asleep…
.

From a physiologic point of view, I'm not sure that hanging, or firing squad are that "cruel" other than the victim knows its coming. Injection I've seen folks get pretty anxious in medically controlled situations- and sometimes the solutions are a bit irritating to the blood vessels. That said, we do essentially the same thing all the time with anesthesia, with the exception of adding the fatal KCl.

Shooting in the brain is painless by definition if you use s sufficiently high velocity round. The brain is disrupted faster than the nerve impulse gets to it.

Heck, captive bolt seems to be pretty pain free for slaughterhouses as long as the abattoir gets it positioned right.

Frankly, any sufficiently traumatic injury is "painless" if administered without foreknowing it.

Nitrogen asphyxia is used by some euthanasia outlets. Its also considered pretty "humane" by animal standards. Folks have died from it without any evidence of pain/suffering. We now have a sample of one for execution.

Pain and suffering usually only occur in executions that are either intended to be tortuous or are screwed up.

The usual "cruel and unusual" is that it is leaving a mess and watching it is traumatic to some observers- the guillotine was painless, as was hanging when the corpse ended up decapitated. We now seen to equate messy with inhumane with cruel or painful.

In one sense, the prolonged battery of appeals and the delays with a long set date for execution sound more inhumane to me than executing them within an hour of the final sentence.

I do agree that it should be reserved for cases that the question of guilt is absolute. I disagree that it should only be reserved for special circumstance. In my mind, any deliberate murder where there is no question of guilt should be put down.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
Bill, that's 7.2 tokarov not nagant

Having worked in chemical plants for a good quarter of my life, the biggest talked about threats were confined spaces and nitrogen exposure in same. Many chemical processes are halted when under a nitrogen blanket. There's many tales of people dying from being exposed, without knowing, by entering a confined space, taking a breath or two, and collapsing - there's even the tale of three men dying, before the 4th put on rescue gear.

There are euthanasia "pods" offering nitrogen as a peaceful and painless passing. It certainly is less "cruel" than hanging, firing squad, or ole sparky - I expect the guy will lay there, breath, passout, and expire quickly and pretty painlessly - sure beats the vacuum chamber / co2 poisoning that they use on stray dogs, as co2 triggers a fight or flight response .. Nitrogen? nope, we already breathe 70+% nitrogen and it won't trigger a suffocation response

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
The Soviets used the little 7.62 Nagant. The Chinese allegedly used Maks.

Then there was this spectacular practice which I only recently encountered while reading about the Sepoy Rebellion of 1857.

Blowing from a gun is a method of execution in which the victim is typically tied to the mouth of a cannon which is then fired, resulting in death. George Carter Stent described the process as follows:

The prisoner is generally tied to a gun with the upper part of the small of his back resting against the muzzle. When the gun is fired, his head is seen to go straight up into the air some forty or fifty feet; the arms fly off right and left, high up in the air, and fall at, perhaps, a hundred yards distance; the legs drop to the ground beneath the muzzle of the gun; and the body is literally blown away altogether, not a vestige being seen.[1]

Blowing from a gun was a reported means of execution as long ago as the 16th century and was used until the 20th century. The method was used by the Portuguese in the 16th and 17th centuries, from as early as 1509 across their empire from Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka)[2] to Mozambique[3] to Brazil.[4] The Mughals used the method throughout the 17th century and into the 18th, particularly against rebels.[5]

This method of execution is most closely associated with the British East India Company rule in India. Following the Indian Rebellion of 1857, "blowing from a gun" was a method the British used to execute rebels[6] as well as for Indian sepoys who were found guilty of desertion.[7] Using the methods previously practised by the Mughals, the British began implementing blowing from guns in the latter half of the 18th century.[8]

How many could effectively be done at one time if lined up properly?

Depends on the gun. A 155 wouldn't even notice the first 50.

I must confess that if I found myself int he situation of being executed, id prefer a shot too the brain. Which lead me to consider the issues and i wonder why a chair containing a captive bolt type arrangement could not be devised?

Damn, I actually agree with Mike Mitchell about something?

Animals are put to sleep everyday.

Painlessly!

But, this is America!

Everything has to be blown totally out of proportion!

Just look at your elections!

Jeffe, I had the old Model 1895 Nagant revolver in mind:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_M1895

Saeed, when I had to put my Brittany down a few years back, the vet of course administered the sedative to relax and bring unconsciousness then the drug to stop the heart. It was painful for me to watch, but painless for my beloved pal, Watson. I looked up and told the vet, "Dear God why can't it be this peaceful for humans as well?"

Just another thought here. I was thinking about this last night and came up with the idea of opioid overdose as a method of execution. Morphine is a perfect example. Absolutely no pain. the person feels euphoria and the body shuts down pretty quickly. Relatively cheap, no mess, no pain, no suffering.

The telephone company has lot a lot of employees and contractors who did not purge the manhole before entering. We used nitrogen to pressurize the cables to keep them dry. They told us about one breath is all you would get before you passed out.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Just another thought here. I was thinking about this last night and came up with the idea of opioid overdose as a method of execution. Morphine is a perfect example. Absolutely no pain. the person feels euphoria and the body shuts down pretty quickly. Relatively cheap, no mess, no pain, no suffering.

Shit, if everything they say about Fentanyl is true, they ought to dose them with a teaspoon of that stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by MtElkHunter:
Just another thought here. I was thinking about this last night and came up with the idea of opioid overdose as a method of execution. Morphine is a perfect example. Absolutely no pain. the person feels euphoria and the body shuts down pretty quickly. Relatively cheap, no mess, no pain, no suffering.

Tons and tons of illegal drugs are confiscated every year. Seems like they could be repurposed. Also not sure why they need to use USP grade drugs for executions.

OTOH the people who kill others don't seem to give a shit about pain and suffering of their victims or those who survive an attempted murder so why should they be entitled to a painless death?

Narcotics overdose is very individualistic.

Some folks get very nauseous with even small doses.

For someone who uses a substance a lot, they can withstand huge doses without the effects that others have (tolerance).

This makes it pretty difficult to write a “protocol” as to exact amounts and what not that are dear to the hearts of bureaucrats and lawyers.

Also, most illicit drugs are cut with something. Ranging from other drugs which may give unwanted effects, to chemical impurities that can make you sick or kill you… which the courts have decided are “cruel and unusual”.

All this is purely due to excessive legalism.

The anti death penalty folks are willing to use anything to stop it.

Heck, I read somewhere recently that most European nations the citizenry are supportive of capital punishment, but it’s so legally settled that their governments agitate about other nations use of it, calling it a human right abuse.

Let a murderer pass from this earth in euphoria? Not in my playbook. I think hanging by the neck until dead is still the best method. Done right, it is quick and sure, but the person who took other people's lives without compunction gets to stand there on that trap for a minute or two and hope the drop was figured correctly -- and know that in seconds, he is going to urinate on himself, preferably in front of the public -- and know that he will go from a human being with life to a mess that needs to be cleaned up and disposed of immediately. If there is a crowd cheering and catcalling, all the better. He will shortly get perfect justice from his or her Creator.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
ANY gas other than Oxygen will do all as long the inspired concentration is greater than 85%. The ideal gas would be carbon monoxide at a 6+% inspired concentration. Odorless, colorless, tasteless. You fall asleep and never wake up. Downside is it and pure nitrogen can take 8-10 minutes to kill but, again, it’s painless. You just fall asleep…
.

H2S, by the time you realize it's there, you're as good as dea.

Or pine box in a hole and load of dirt quick so it don’t get noisy
No mess, no fuss

I've seen numerous suicides by CO. Even these are quite messy. The body does not react well to this kind of death either.

The most 'creative' one I recall was a man who had surfed the internet to look for a good way to do this. Why he didn't use the vehicle exhaust was beyond me. What he did was put a hibachi type grill in the back seat of his car and lit a load of briquets which eventually used up the available 02.

Weird and nasty.

He stabbed a woman to death. Why should I, or anyone care about his "suffering"? It didn't compare to her pain & agony. Fuck him.

quote:

Originally posted by wymple:
He stabbed a woman to death. Why should I, or anyone care about his "suffering"? It didn't compare to her pain & agony. Fuck him.

Because we don't lower ourselves to their level.

Again, are we, are you prepared and ready to rape and murder babies in retribution because others rape and murder babies? Because he stabbed to death are you ready to stab him to death?

If you ain't got, "the balls" as our legislators say, are you comfortable leaving it to others to do? Who? Your kids? My kid?

I doubt you'd congratulate me for being the father of an executioner.

I think you'd despise me if I were the father of an executioner that dispensed the cruelty you promote.

So in short, if you think a cruel execution of the condemned is appropriate, you go do it.

I don't know what's wrong with lethal injection. I've been put to sleep for surgeries, and it's painless, except for a pinprick at the injection site. It only takes a couple of seconds to act, and they can do pretty much anything to you without your feeling it once you're out.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I don't know what's wrong with lethal injection. I've been put to sleep for surgeries, and it's painless, except for a pinprick at the injection site. It only takes a couple of seconds to act, and they can do pretty much anything to you without your feeling it once you're out.

the State had previously tried this, and botched the process - i don't recall the wits and wherefores, but it's just a google search away

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
I don't know what's wrong with lethal injection. I've been put to sleep for surgeries, and it's painless, except for a pinprick at the injection site. It only takes a couple of seconds to act, and they can do pretty much anything to you without your feeling it once you're out.

Yep. They can't risk having you flop around while they're trying to do delicate surgery. You're pretty much immobile. Just keep running the drugs in until they croak.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Animals are put to sleep everyday.

Painlessly!

But, this is America!

Everything has to be blown totally out of proportion!

Just look at your elections!

Are convicts doped up with valium or something similar before they're beheaded?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I've seen numerous suicides by CO. Even these are quite messy. The body does not react well to this kind of death either.

The most 'creative' one I recall was a man who had surfed the internet to look for a good way to do this. Why he didn't use the vehicle exhaust was beyond me. What he did was put a hibachi type grill in the back seat of his car and lit a load of briquets which eventually used up the available 02.

Weird and nasty.

Messy in what way?

Put them to sleep, remove any usable organs, and presto, they have "paid" for their crimes.

" Because he stabbed to death are you ready to stab him to death?"

Yes

quote:

Originally posted by ANTELOPEDUNDEE:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
I've seen numerous suicides by CO. Even these are quite messy. The body does not react well to this kind of death either.

The most 'creative' one I recall was a man who had surfed the internet to look for a good way to do this. Why he didn't use the vehicle exhaust was beyond me. What he did was put a hibachi type grill in the back seat of his car and lit a load of briquets which eventually used up the available 02.

Weird and nasty.

Messy in what way?

The nose, eyes and mouth are often dripping blood and leaking other fluids. Skin color is pretty bad too. Drug OD's have similar results.

Just about any way a person dies is to some extent messy with body fluids. This guy stabbed a woman to death. I really do not care if he suffered or not. Teh only reason I am suggesting less painful ways is because the death penalty is so controversial that if people are put to death and it is seen as cruel more people to say no more death penalty.