Syrian dictator Bashar Assad flees into exile as Islamist rebels conquer country

https://www.foxnews.com/world/...bels-conquer-country

Ok, so after 2 decades we surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban. Today an "AlQueda-esk" insurgency took over Syria.

Iran seems to have four flat tires at the moment but has recently mounted direct attacks on Israel and Vlad seems to have lost control or influence on the Islamic nations he thought he had.

So, I think Gaza and Lebanon are both radicalized. Today it seems Syria has joined Iraq as also being unstable and radicalized. Egypt and Jordan act like they're trying to keep a lid on things, Pakistan is ecstatic that their radicals continue to fly under the radar.

This ain't good I think. We had a chance to metaphorically hold these guys heads under water til they stopped struggling and instead we tried to turn them into Americans.

"Inside every Gook is and American trying to get out!"

I think we're going back over there again and if we fight this time with the same feelings, compassion, sensitivity and humanity we have the last few times we will loose again.

I don't really see why we are likely to go in (in your opinion...)

Gaza may well be radicalized, but that's the israeli's problem.

Lebanon- well if we agree to wear the blue hats there again, it will likely end up just like in 1984.

I'm not so sure Iraq is radicalized. They did somewhat get the message of FAFO from Bush/Obama. While I doubt they are our steadfast allies, I do suspect they don't want us back there again in force.

Iran? They do worry me a bit, especially the specter of nuclear terrorism.

I hope with Egypt we learned a lesson with Obama's Arab spring.

Turkey might have some concerns with a Islamist neighbor.

Jordan is probably a lot like the UAE... smart enough to know nothing good comes of exporting terrorism.

You are right that Russia has issues... they have a major base and a lot of people there... and a war that is taking up most of their resources. Maybe it will be an impetus for Putin to go to the negotiating table re Ukraine.

You are right in that if we feel that we have to attack, we should fight to win an unconditional victory and not be pissing around with nation building or other such nonsense. Defined mission and very violent rules of engagement, otherwise our lesson of a "peaceful war" is a lost war didn't get through.

Believe me, I dread going back in, but I believe we will in retaliation to their coming aggression.

The M.E. isn't modernizing and civilizing, it's moving back towards its stone age roots.

I disagree with Mr Jines, I don't believe our activities there flame Islamic radicalism, I believe our existence does. Our Western ideals they perceive as weakness, our humanity they use against us.

The Caliphate is growing, Syria was added today. When they attack the Infidels and we know they will, we have to educate them that the West can actually be more brutal, more deadly, yes, more evil than they ever imagined.

General Sherman convinced The South that war wasn't worth it and generations later, Dr Dollar hates him to this day. The Allies convinced Japan that war wasn't worth it and generations later they are still culturally and societally night and day changed.

America created the Taliban to fight the Russians.

Where did THAT get us?

America removed Saddam and created ISIS, at the same time giving Iran a free hand.

Where did that get us??

Assad is supported by Russia.

Any chance that America is behind this?

No of course not!

The CIA NEVER gets involved in destroying other countries!

Kurds will keep them out of their territory
Hope one day Kurds will get their own country and it might be prime time to do that
Of course Turks will have a coronary and so will just about everyone else in ME
Kurds are our best friend in ME bar none besides Israel

I would be open to letting the Kurds have Dubai... Could be in for some improvements...

America is using the Kurds as useful idiots.

Once they get what they want, they will dispose of the, like they usually do!

Never trust the bloody Yanks politics!

Bloody hell, they can’t get their own country in order!

https://youtu.be/ai_PFLTXzvs?si=PJpjdgzgTMkZB05H

Video shows rebels escorting Syria’s PM out of office as Assad regime falls

1 hour ago

https://youtu.be/shGDmOchriQ?si=x6cbj6D1SEk5Z1-0&t=1

Syrian PM is frogmarched from home by armed rebels to hand over power as locals ransack Assad palace

It comes as video also emerged of fighters walking through Assad's grand presidential palace after the tyrant fled Damascus.

https://youtu.be/xYF4Tl0aBvs?si=E--Mixxo330ZsH_o

Collapse of Assad is 'humiliation' for Putin and will weaken him on Ukraine

===============================================

Of course not all is hopeless for Putin. He still has Trump who he helped install.

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Kurds will keep them out of their territory
Hope one day Kurds will get their own country and it might be prime time to do that
Of course Turks will have a coronary and so will just about everyone else in ME
Kurds are our best friend in ME bar none besides Israel

We have again backstabbed the Kurds for Turkey. I do not see us going in and do not approve. Syria was a Russian ally. If this was done through Iran, the web gets very complicated.

Islamic revolutionaries see their own government’s as targets. There are no good answers. What I have come to learn is I would rather have the Saudi Arabia’s and Iraqs then the Islamists.

Soft power, aid, Stabilization, and letting the ME states deal with it realizing that means some ugly repression is my position.

I worry for Jordan.

I could also see nation states like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan becoming more Islamic, theologically in governance to try to appease Islamic elements or make Islamic propaganda and recruitment less impactful.

A good read is below focusing on ISIS. However, the observations translate as to why Islamic revolutionaries is attracting/attractive to young men.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...really-wants/384980/


These people are never truly going away. It is the same nationalist, radicals that got the folks up in arms over the Brits in the 1800s.

The best one can do is knock them out and wait for the next round to come on a decade or two.


Killing every man child is not the answer. What the U.S. tried was to make a liberalized culture out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea was that unless we fundamentally in the political and cultural area install liberalization these people would just slide back into Islamic theocratic rule once we left, and the attacks would happen again.


Now, I am fully convinced that to do that would take a permanent U.S. presence with periodic surges. That is unacceptable.

Therefore, other then that how do we prevent a nation state that we glass from returning to Islamic, revolutionary theocracy once we glass and leave?


We don’t prevent it. We just pull the weeds out until the next time. The focus should be domestically on identifying and stopping attacks.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Kurds will keep them out of their territory
Hope one day Kurds will get their own country and it might be prime time to do that
Of course Turks will have a coronary and so will just about everyone else in ME
Kurds are our best friend in ME bar none besides Israel

We have again backstabbed the Kurds for Turkey. I do not see us going in and do not approve. Syria was a Russian ally. If this was done through Iran, the web gets very complicated.

Islamic revolutionaries see their own government’s as targets. There are no good answers. What I have come to learn is I would rather have the Saudi Arabia’s and Iraqs then the Islamists.

Soft power, aid, Stabilization, and letting the ME states deal with it realizing that means some ugly repression is my position.

I worry for Jordan.

I could also see nation states like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan becoming more Islamic, theologically in governance to try to appease Islamic elements or make Islamic propaganda and recruitment less impactful.

A good read is below focusing on ISIS. However, the observations translate as to why Islamic revolutionaries is attracting/attractive to young men.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...really-wants/384980/


These people are never truly going away. It is the same nationalist, radicals that got the folks up in arms over the Brits in the 1800s.

The best one can do is knock them out and wait for the next round to come on a decade or two.


Killing every man child is not the answer. What the U.S. tried was to make a liberalized culture out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea was that unless we fundamentally in the political and cultural area install liberalization these people would just slide back into Islamic theocratic rule once we left, and the attacks would happen again.


Now, I am fully convinced that to do that would take a permanent U.S. presence with periodic surges. That is unacceptable.

Therefore, other then that how do we prevent a nation state that we glass from returning to Islamic, revolutionary theocracy once we glass and leave?


We don’t prevent it. We just pull the weeds out until the next time. The focus should be domestically on identifying and stopping attacks.

Hahahaha!

You can’t govern and run your own country and you giving advice to, others??

Hahahaha!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott King:
Syrian dictator Bashar Assad flees into exile as Islamist rebels conquer country

https://www.foxnews.com/world/...bels-conquer-country

Ok, so after 2 decades we surrendered Afghanistan back to the Taliban. Today an "AlQueda-esk" insurgency took over Syria.

Iran seems to have four flat tires at the moment but has recently mounted direct attacks on Israel and Vlad seems to have lost control or influence on the Islamic nations he thought he had.

So, I think Gaza and Lebanon are both radicalized. Today it seems Syria has joined Iraq as also being unstable and radicalized. Egypt and Jordan act like they're trying to keep a lid on things, Pakistan is ecstatic that their radicals continue to fly under the radar.

This ain't good I think. We had a chance to metaphorically hold these guys heads under water til they stopped struggling and instead we tried to turn them into Americans.

"Inside every Gook is and American trying to get out!"

I think we're going back over there again and if we fight this time with the same feelings, compassion, sensitivity and humanity we have the last few times we will loose again.

A shocking amount of lack of details and lack of knowledge of the places you are talking about.

You cannot hold anyone under water forever. Bashar Al-Assad promised reform when he took hold of power after his father's death. That father was a tyrant who did not mind using fighter jets against his own people. They are from a minority Shiite sect where as the country is composed of 74% of Sunni Syrian Arabs and other religious and ethnic minorities. Running a country like a mafia gang seldom results in the organic development of societies. The militants may group under the tag of Islamists but they are also nationalists of a certain persuasion.

Lebanon- Again is not a monolith. It is a complex composition of different religions and ethnicities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism_in_Lebanon

"Lebanon recognizes 18 different sects: 67.6% of the population is Muslim (31.9% Sunni, 31% Shia, small percentage of Alawites and Ismailis), 32.4% is Christian, the majority being Maronites Catholics and Greek Orthodox (with smaller groups including Greek Catholics, Armenian Orthodox, Armenian Catholics, Syriac Orthodox, Syriac Catholics, Assyrians, Chaldean Catholics, Copts, Protestants), while 4.52% is Druze.[1]"

They have a unique system of sharing power in the government. Hezbollah represent the Shiite sect and their main target is Israel and it does not enjoy much support from others within Lebanon. That hardly means Lebanon is radicalised. It means that some in Lebanon are radicals. So, when you want to flatten Lebanon, you are also killing 32% of Lebanese who are Christian.

Gaza- What does it even mean Gaza is radicalised? They want to be free from Israeli occupation like other Palestinians. The tactics of Hamas are a different topic and that I do not support.

Taliban- the US created them by providing weapons and training. There is a ton of recorded evidence to that. Once created, why would they want to be the puppets of someone else? Russia also made the same mistake.

It all boils down to interfering militarily and politically in other countries' politics without ever paying attention to the will of the majority of the people who have to live there. When societies are prevented from developing organically, perversions happen. The US is not the only guilty party of course. It is the arrogance of any intervening power that thinks that it can control the direction of a group of people infinitely.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Kurds will keep them out of their territory
Hope one day Kurds will get their own country and it might be prime time to do that
Of course Turks will have a coronary and so will just about everyone else in ME
Kurds are our best friend in ME bar none besides Israel

We have again backstabbed the Kurds for Turkey. I do not see us going in and do not approve. Syria was a Russian ally. If this was done through Iran, the web gets very complicated.

Islamic revolutionaries see their own government’s as targets. There are no good answers. What I have come to learn is I would rather have the Saudi Arabia’s and Iraqs then the Islamists.

Soft power, aid, Stabilization, and letting the ME states deal with it realizing that means some ugly repression is my position.

I worry for Jordan.

I could also see nation states like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan becoming more Islamic, theologically in governance to try to appease Islamic elements or make Islamic propaganda and recruitment less impactful.

A good read is below focusing on ISIS. However, the observations translate as to why Islamic revolutionaries is attracting/attractive to young men.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...really-wants/384980/


These people are never truly going away. It is the same nationalist, radicals that got the folks up in arms over the Brits in the 1800s.

The best one can do is knock them out and wait for the next round to come on a decade or two.


Killing every man child is not the answer. What the U.S. tried was to make a liberalized culture out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea was that unless we fundamentally in the political and cultural area install liberalization these people would just slide back into Islamic theocratic rule once we left, and the attacks would happen again.


Now, I am fully convinced that to do that would take a permanent U.S. presence with periodic surges. That is unacceptable.

Therefore, other then that how do we prevent a nation state that we glass from returning to Islamic, revolutionary theocracy once we glass and leave?


We don’t prevent it. We just pull the weeds out until the next time. The focus should be domestically on identifying and stopping attacks.

Hahahaha!

You can’t govern and run your own country and you giving advice to, others??

Hahahaha!

You say that, but we all know what keeps you and your family from the wolves.

So, what do youse all (NY version of y'all) think of this?

https://youtu.be/yK2aBS9mxDI?si=rY-EwUwY_JI99ff8

Trump pressures Russia to end Ukraine war | LiveNOW from FOX

Dec 8, 2024
President-elect Donald Trump said in a statement on Truth Social: "Assad is gone. He has fled his country. His protector, Russia, Russia, Russia, led by Vladimir Putin, was not interested in protecting him any longer. There was no reason for Russia to be there in the first place. They lost all interest in Syria because of Ukraine, where close to 600,000 Russian soldiers lay wounded or dead, in a war that should never have started, and could go on forever. Russia and Iran are in a weakened state right now, one because of Ukraine and a bad economy, the other because of Israel and its fighting success. Likewise, Zelenskyy and Ukraine would like to make a deal and stop the madness. They have ridiculously lost 400,000 soldiers, and many more civilians. There should be an immediate ceasefire and negotiations should begin. Too many lives are being so needlessly wasted, too many families destroyed, and if it keeps going, it can turn into something much bigger, and far worse. I know Vladimir well. This is his time to act. China can help. The World is waiting!"

So, is the gas pipeline going through, now?

Im not sure what will happen here. Slightly off topic but every time a situation like this comes up, I get really pissed off at the UN. They are a garbage waste of space organisation that only seems interested in talking and keeping themselves employed.
We have a situation where Kurds, Christians and Druze. Probably some other minority's too. Might well be in for a horrendous time.
The world. Not the US. The world should be getting in there with troops from every fucking nation and making things settle down.

Bibi's got it covered!

https://youtu.be/drs4BDv85YE?si=4oKSNMX_Js-5N7mj

Israeli PM Netanyahu warns Syria after 'fall' of Assad

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Im not sure what will happen here. Slightly off topic but every time a situation like this comes up, I get really pissed off at the UN. They are a garbage waste of space organisation that only seems interested in talking and keeping themselves employed.
We have a situation where Kurds, Christians and Druze. Probably some other minority's too. Might well be in for a horrendous time.
The world. Not the US. The world should be getting in there with troops from every fucking nation and making things settle down.

Nobody is, I'm certainly not certain.

Sorry , just sort of came to me.

Robins spin of events must have him a bit nauseous. The news says the victors in Syria have their roots in alQaida. I read this morning that the US struck a bunch of ISIS bases in Syria because we're not going to let ISIS take advantage of the situation.

Who in the hell do we think is occupying the palaces in Damascus today?

The whole region seems very fluid. As I mentioned previously, American troops based in Syria have been attacked by Iranian funded terrorists that are based in Iraq. That makes our Hatfield vs McCoy stuff look like a Bridge game.

If bet The Donald and the rest of America have one idea in mind you Kiwis something slightly similar. Jordan and Egypt are on another avenue and the guys currently in charge in Afghanistan, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen and a few other arid locations are diametrically opposed to what the two of us think.

As far as the UN goes, we should end funding and throw them out of New York. What they let happen in Rwanda is an easy example why and what's currently going down in Haiti is icing on the cake.

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by LHeym500:

quote:

Originally posted by M.Shy:
Kurds will keep them out of their territory
Hope one day Kurds will get their own country and it might be prime time to do that
Of course Turks will have a coronary and so will just about everyone else in ME
Kurds are our best friend in ME bar none besides Israel

We have again backstabbed the Kurds for Turkey. I do not see us going in and do not approve. Syria was a Russian ally. If this was done through Iran, the web gets very complicated.

Islamic revolutionaries see their own government’s as targets. There are no good answers. What I have come to learn is I would rather have the Saudi Arabia’s and Iraqs then the Islamists.

Soft power, aid, Stabilization, and letting the ME states deal with it realizing that means some ugly repression is my position.

I worry for Jordan.

I could also see nation states like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan becoming more Islamic, theologically in governance to try to appease Islamic elements or make Islamic propaganda and recruitment less impactful.

A good read is below focusing on ISIS. However, the observations translate as to why Islamic revolutionaries is attracting/attractive to young men.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...really-wants/384980/


These people are never truly going away. It is the same nationalist, radicals that got the folks up in arms over the Brits in the 1800s.

The best one can do is knock them out and wait for the next round to come on a decade or two.


Killing every man child is not the answer. What the U.S. tried was to make a liberalized culture out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The idea was that unless we fundamentally in the political and cultural area install liberalization these people would just slide back into Islamic theocratic rule once we left, and the attacks would happen again.


Now, I am fully convinced that to do that would take a permanent U.S. presence with periodic surges. That is unacceptable.

Therefore, other then that how do we prevent a nation state that we glass from returning to Islamic, revolutionary theocracy once we glass and leave?


We don’t prevent it. We just pull the weeds out until the next time. The focus should be domestically on identifying and stopping attacks.

Hahahaha!

You can’t govern and run your own country and you giving advice to, others??

Hahahaha!

You say that, but we all know what keeps you and your family from the wolves.

Our money!

Just like Kuwait!

Paid mercenaries to liberate their country!

I agree with 99% of what Scott has laid out above.

All I will add is that a very strong alliance with Israel is more obviously important today than ever.

And that the Israeli's should begin funding their own defense. The USA has been paying that bill for far too long.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:
And that the Israeli's should begin funding their own defense. The USA has been paying that bill for far too long.

You forgot the bit who controls US foreign policy!

Certainly not the people in Washington DC!

I am good with the money spent on Israel. They are our only staunch ally in the region. Money well spent. We should be sending some of our military personnel to learn from them.

In my opinion, Israel should be paying for its own defense.

Our obligation as an ally is to stand up for them internationally (like the UN) and to physically come to their aid when necessary as per our agreements with them- like helping shoot down the Iranian missile barrage.

Selling them some weapons at a favorable price point to keep our infrastructure going is reasonable as well.

Like with Ukraine, I don’t think a blank check is a good idea.

quote:

So, when you want to flatten Lebanon, you are also killing 32% of Lebanese who are Christian

Similar to when you want to flatten any other area because it’s just easier than actually trying to understand what is going on there and the easy answer to everything is a B-52.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

So, when you want to flatten Lebanon, you are also killing 32% of Lebanese who are Christian

Similar to when you want to flatten any other area because it’s just easier than actually trying to understand what is going on there and the easy answer to everything is a B-52.

Thank for putting it so succinctly.

Some just would not acknowledge the fact that issues like these are very complex and there are far weightier explanations than simplistic reasons such as radicalisation.

Fact: Assad's family is from a minority Shiite sect known as Alawites who form 12% of the population of Syria. The French who were in control of the area merged it with the State of Syria and placed the Alawites in powerful positions. Assad's father and his gang never hesitated to brutally suppress their own people with fighter jets and chemical weapons.

The article below is well worth your time.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com...al-assad-russia-iran

quote:

Iran and its proxy militias—especially Hezbollah—helped Assad to besiege and bombard his own people; Russia with its Sukhoi fighter jets annihilated entire cities. With their help, it is estimated that the regime killed at least half a million of its own people, disappeared another 130,000, and left about half the population—some 14 million—displaced. In the end, the UN stopped even counting the dead.

He was a monster. Those coming after him may be as bad or may prove to be better. It is imperative to make sure that all the parties in Syria sort their differences and work towards the betterment of the country. That is where diplomacy and statesmanship are critical. Unfortunately, we live in the age of intellectual midgets, demagogues and fanatics holding leadership positions.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

So, when you want to flatten Lebanon, you are also killing 32% of Lebanese who are Christian

Similar to when you want to flatten any other area because it’s just easier than actually trying to understand what is going on there and the easy answer to everything is a B-52.

I don't know of anyone that wants to flatten Lebanon and could you give and example of when The West actually did understand what's going on there?

https://www.newsweek.com/israe...ime-50-years-1997492

Israeli Forces Deploy in Syria Buffer Zone for First Time in 50 Years
Published Dec 09, 2024 at 5:21 AM EST
Updated Dec 09, 2024 at 10:19 AM EST

quote:

Originally posted by RobinOLocksley:
[QUOTE]

He was a monster.

As was Sadaam and his sons, Bin Laden, Khomeini, Arafat, maybe a few other Saudis, Mullah Omar and most of the Taliban and every single Somali male between the age of 13 and 33.

This new guy in Syria, what's his gangs acronym, HTS? I'll look it up later, but being from alQiada 20 years ago isn't the best resume.

I'll take a hard pass on another "foreign entanglement" if given the choice, but it seems the Caliphate is growing. Robin thinks these events are tied to resistance to European nation building, I say it's tribalism Rhodesian style.

Sunnis ain't gonna submit to Shiites, Kurds gonna buck them all. I think that unfortunately once the M.E. tribalism is resolved the Caliphate will again take offense at the Infidels footprint on their Holy Lands and planet.

And because The West didn't leave a permanent scar on their land and psyche the last time we traded explosions, they feel all to liberated and comfortable to reengage.

All the more reason to support our one and only ally in the region — Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
All the more reason to support our one and only ally in the region — Israel.

Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians are also our biggest liability in the ME and the largest stumbling block to peace.

I support a just resolution to the conflict(over 75 years of it) taking into account all of the residents of the area, not just those of one ethnicity or religion.

Millions of Palestinians are not going to just go away, a solution needs to be found, a bigger hammer is not working.

quote:

Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians are also our biggest liability in the ME and the largest stumbling block to peace.

Only a scapegoat and useful fodder for propaganda — see it worked!

Hopefully new Kurdistan

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Israel and its treatment of the Palestinians are also our biggest liability in the ME and the largest stumbling block to peace.

Only a scapegoat and useful fodder for propaganda — see it worked!

Religious zealots see things through a very biased lens, you never disappoint.

If Isreal no longer existed, the ME would still be fighting. it's tribal politics, never going to change.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
If Isreal no longer existed, the ME would still be fighting. it's tribal politics, never going to change.

Likely true, but there is no denying that things have been FAR worse since 1948. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and our support of it is the main reason for Islamic terrorism in today's world.

quote:

things have been FAR worse since 1948.

Is this that a joke!?

1948 and prior are not even comparable the 21st century.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

things have been FAR worse since 1948.

Is this that a joke!?

1948 and prior are not even comparable the 21st century.

Agreed, the events of 1948 made it so

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

things have been FAR worse since 1948.

Is this that a joke!?

1948 and prior are not even comparable the 21st century.

Agreed, the events of 1948 made it so

Apples and oranges!

Israel gives the ME a focal point to hate. Without, and even with, they still hate anyone not of their tribe.
Would things be better in the ME if Palestine had it's own state? Maybe, but only for a short time I would guess.
This is to deep rooted to have a simple answer.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

things have been FAR worse since 1948.

Is this that a joke!?

1948 and prior are not even comparable the 21st century.

Agreed, the events of 1948 made it so

Apples and oranges!

Given the region, maybe a better comparison would be apples and grenades.