quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saw a report today saying the Us Government pays more interest on their debt than they do defense??

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saw a report today saying the Us Government pays more interest on their debt than they do defense??

I think it's almost true, and will be within a couple of years.

What Republicans don't want you to know is that 39% of our current debt was accrued just under Trump. When a Republican is President they cut taxes for billionaires and corporations so the revenue drops and borrowing increases, then when a Democrat is elected they cry about the debt.

Before they reflexively accuse me of lying we ended 2016 with $19.5 trillion of debt. By the time we got rid of him in 2020 it was $26.9 trillion and we were in a recession.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saw a report today saying the Us Government pays more interest on their debt than they do defense??

I think it's almost true, and will be within a couple of years.

What Republicans don't want you to know is that 39% of our current debt was accrued just under Trump. When a Republican is President they cut taxes for billionaires and corporations so the revenue drops and borrowing increases, then when a Democrat is elected they cry about the debt.

Before they reflexively accuse me of lying we ended 2016 with $19.5 trillion of debt. By the time we got rid of him in 2020 it was $26.9 trillion and we were in a recession.

Extract the amount spent on COVID, add a digit to it, add it back and you would have what the deficit would have been if there were democrats in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Saw a report today saying the Us Government pays more interest on their debt than they do defense??

I think it's almost true, and will be within a couple of years.

What Republicans don't want you to know is that 39% of our current debt was accrued just under Trump. When a Republican is President they cut taxes for billionaires and corporations so the revenue drops and borrowing increases, then when a Democrat is elected they cry about the debt.

Before they reflexively accuse me of lying we ended 2016 with $19.5 trillion of debt. By the time we got rid of him in 2020 it was $26.9 trillion and we were in a recession.

Extract the amount spent on COVID, add a digit to it, add it back and you would have what the deficit would have been if there were democrats in charge.

Your fantasies and mental masturbation are of no interest to me. As is usual, the ineptitude of a Republican President forces a succeeding Democrat to spend heavily to fix what the Republican broke, whether it's the Great Recession Obama inherited from Bush the Lesser or the recession and pandemic Biden inherited from Trump.

Just the useless wars Bush the Lesser lied us into added $8 trillion to our debt.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
. . . just another example of how both the Dems and Reps suck and both bear responsibility for the debt. The GOP loves fiscal conservatism . . . talking about it. Doing something about it, not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Nonsense. We, meaning the Trump Administration, did nothing while other Countries took immediate steps to protect their populations.

Go here and scroll down to "Reactions and measures outside mainland China" to see just how far behind we were, solely because your Orange hero thought pretending it would just go away was better for his image.

Thailand and Singapore started screening passengers coming from China on January 3, the U.S. issued a Level 1 advisory recommending that travelers to Wuhan wash their hands on January 6th.

We lost almost 6 times as many people per capita than Japan because we had an incompetent, narcissistic clown in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I don’t think so.

We are an incredibly narcissistic and self indulgent society.

I don’t think anything would have worked in the first place, and Dr. E is right that by the time the disease was identified and the problem was figured out, it was too late.

Most other nations do not have the level of personal mobility that we do here, and we also tend to insist on a higher level of personal interaction than most other cultures in regards to business.

We also have a very multicultural population so there is more interaction with all areas of earth than other places… Japan is one of the most insular (culturally) places on earth.

None of the interventions really worked all that well. Note that a large part of our inoculation of Covid was our citizens traveling to places other than China.

I was in Ethiopia when this hit. I can tell you there were all kinds of games being played by foreign nationals to get here before we shut everything down. Well over half of the folks on my flight back to the US were flying in from China via Addis.

While I don’t credit Trump with doing anything that really was helpful, I do think it’s hypocritical for the left to blame him… he pretty much did what was recommended. He did insist on being seen as getting credit for it, but the Dems were trying to claim it too.

Also, while Covid still exists, it has substantially devolved to the mean- it’s nowhere near as fatal as it was… as expected. Most people experience symptoms indistinguishable from a common cold. There is no herd immunity because like all coronaviruses it mutates so quickly… and that’s why the vaccine is typically a generation behind and not as effective as we might wish.


So while I see no reason to claim that Trump did well or better than anyone, the same can be said for the democrats. And both sides have been shown to have done substantial harm to the country with the response. The GOP needs to find someone other than Trump who was connected with a failure; the same should be said of the Democrats with Biden.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Nonsense. We, meaning the Trump Administration, did nothing while other Countries took immediate steps to protect their populations.

Go here and scroll down to "Reactions and measures outside mainland China" to see just how far behind we were, solely because your Orange hero thought pretending it would just go away was better for his image.

Thailand and Singapore started screening passengers coming from China on January 3, the U.S. issued a Level 1 advisory recommending that travelers to Wuhan wash their hands on January 6th.

We lost almost 6 times as many people per capita than Japan because we had an incompetent, narcissistic clown in charge.

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzly Adams1:
If not, it's only a matter of time.

Grizz

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:
I don’t think so.

We are an incredibly narcissistic and self indulgent society.

I don’t think anything would have worked in the first place, and Dr. E is right that by the time the disease was identified and the problem was figured out, it was too late.

Most other nations do not have the level of personal mobility that we do here, and we also tend to insist on a higher level of personal interaction than most other cultures in regards to business.

We also have a very multicultural population so there is more interaction with all areas of earth than other places… Japan is one of the most insular (culturally) places on earth.

None of the interventions really worked all that well. Note that a large part of our inoculation of Covid was our citizens traveling to places other than China.

I was in Ethiopia when this hit. I can tell you there were all kinds of games being played by foreign nationals to get here before we shut everything down. Well over half of the folks on my flight back to the US were flying in from China via Addis.

While I don’t credit Trump with doing anything that really was helpful, I do think it’s hypocritical for the left to blame him… he pretty much did what was recommended. He did insist on being seen as getting credit for it, but the Dems were trying to claim it too.

Also, while Covid still exists, it has substantially devolved to the mean- it’s nowhere near as fatal as it was… as expected. Most people experience symptoms indistinguishable from a common cold. There is no herd immunity because like all coronaviruses it mutates so quickly… and that’s why the vaccine is typically a generation behind and not as effective as we might wish.


So while I see no reason to claim that Trump did well or better than anyone, the same can be said for the democrats. And both sides have been shown to have done substantial harm to the country with the response. The GOP needs to find someone other than Trump who was connected with a failure; the same should be said of the Democrats with Biden.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Nonsense. We, meaning the Trump Administration, did nothing while other Countries took immediate steps to protect their populations.

Go here and scroll down to "Reactions and measures outside mainland China" to see just how far behind we were, solely because your Orange hero thought pretending it would just go away was better for his image.

Thailand and Singapore started screening passengers coming from China on January 3, the U.S. issued a Level 1 advisory recommending that travelers to Wuhan wash their hands on January 6th.

We lost almost 6 times as many people per capita than Japan because we had an incompetent, narcissistic clown in charge.

That's all well and good if you are willing to ignore the fact that the Trump Administration refused to use the pandemic response protocol that was already in place and decided to save money by not maintaining the PPE stockpile we kept for years, so most of it was expired.

The pandemic protocol Obama left would not have done much. By the time it was recognized, it was too late. As to the PPE stockpile, we did use it despite it being out of date- it did not make a difference.

Remember that the whole ventilator business was discovered to be ineffective.

The masks they had were both insufficient in number and generally not what was needed.

It's amazing how many excuses ya'll will dream up to cover for the fact that Trump did nothing until forced to then drug his feet every step of the way.

quote:

There is no herd immunity because like all coronaviruses it mutates so quickly… and that’s why the vaccine is typically a generation behind and not as effective as we might wish.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Id be surprised it that was true. Hong Kong has people pouring in and out of it constantly and a huge population density. Huge numbers of people in Europe live in one country and drive to work in another, every day.

Lots of people do visit the US, but you have a pretty low pop density.

Edit to add (if you believe these sites)-

Apparently France is the most visited country

https://worldpopulationreview....st-visited-countries

And the Finns are the most "traveled" people with the US second.

Of the US - "Though the average American takes 6.7 trips each year, only 0.2 of those (less than 3%) are abroad."

Sweden Denmark and Norway are the others in the top 5. Given the wild variance in their covid figs its obviously not as simple as amount of traveling.

https://list25.com/25-most-wel...eoples-in-the-world/

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Id be surprised it that was true. Hong Kong has people pouring in and out of it constantly and a huge population density. Huge numbers of people in Europe live in one country and drive to work in another, every day.

Lots of people do visit the US, but you have a pretty low pop density.

Edit to add (if you believe these sites)-

Apparently France is the most visited country

https://worldpopulationreview....st-visited-countries

And the Finns are the most "traveled" people with the US second.

Of the US - "Though the average American takes 6.7 trips each year, only 0.2 of those (less than 3%) are abroad."

Sweden Denmark and Norway are the others in the top 5. Given the wild variance in their covid figs its obviously not as simple as amount of traveling.

https://list25.com/25-most-wel...eoples-in-the-world/

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by nute:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.

Then explain why other industrialized countries had lower, and in some cases much lower, death rates. We lost 3,364 per million, while Denmark lost 1,500 per, Israel 1,344 per and Japan 602 per million.

Initial inoculation rate. We are the most traveled population in the world in the most traveled to country. The virus was seeded into our population before it was really on the radar.

Id be surprised it that was true. Hong Kong has people pouring in and out of it constantly and a huge population density. Huge numbers of people in Europe live in one country and drive to work in another, every day.

Lots of people do visit the US, but you have a pretty low pop density.

Edit to add (if you believe these sites)-

Apparently France is the most visited country

https://worldpopulationreview....st-visited-countries

And the Finns are the most "traveled" people with the US second.

Of the US - "Though the average American takes 6.7 trips each year, only 0.2 of those (less than 3%) are abroad."

Sweden Denmark and Norway are the others in the top 5. Given the wild variance in their covid figs its obviously not as simple as amount of traveling.

https://list25.com/25-most-wel...eoples-in-the-world/

Nute,
When you correct for cases & deaths/million of population and look at the most travelled to countries…using you site…they correlate fairly close to the most numerous cases.

The UK had about the same infection and death rate as the US. France only slightly lower in death rate and almost twice as high in infection rate.

There are some data centers that also list US as number one in both.

As to travel abroad…that makes little difference as it is commingling in international airports that makes the difference.

There is a study that suggests that pre-awareness inoculation accounted for the highest infection rates per country.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
4.7 trillion spent in covid aid. Are you suggesting we should have spent less? Then take it up with Nancy, she approved every cent

How much of that was made necessary by Trump's abject failure to respond effectively to the pandemic from the start because acknowledging the real risk would have made him "look bad"? Hell, he didn't want to let sick American citizens get off a cruise ship and go to hospitals because it would increase his numbers.

How much was blatantly stolen from the PPP with no oversight? Republicans in Congress that didn't own businesses got PPP loans that were almost immediately "forgiven"

More proof of your lack of brain capacity. There was NO response that was going to change a damn thing about the epidemiology of the pandemic…by any President.


But I will agree that we wasted a helluva lot of money in the response. The whole PPP project was a joke…a waste. But getting it and getting it forgiven was not limited to Republicans and insinuating it was is a lie. It was universal in the program.