quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

uhm, you might want to research/expand on that .. just a bit.. you aren't wrong, but that over simplification is, well, a gross over simplification .

the shah was in charge BEFORE Mosaddegh, and the brits MIGHT have had a little influence there

nuances are actually important

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

uhm, you might want to research/expand on that .. just a bit.. you aren't wrong, but that over simplification is, well, a gross over simplification .

the shah was in charge BEFORE Mosaddegh, and the brits MIGHT have had a little influence there

nuances are actually important

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

A supposed Persian homily...

"When the Shah is a fool, he attacks Dagestan"

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Is there any problem area in the world today that was NOT started by the Wests sticking their noses where it was not required??

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

Is there any problem area in the world today that was NOT started by the Wests sticking their noses where it was not required??

The worst famine the world has seen in decades comes to mind which is unfolding in Sudan, sponsored by the UAE and your brothers the Saudis.

Your welcome

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

uhm, you might want to research/expand on that .. just a bit.. you aren't wrong, but that over simplification is, well, a gross over simplification .

the shah was in charge BEFORE Mosaddegh, and the brits MIGHT have had a little influence there

nuances are actually important

Yes, my words were only intended as a simplification, since I wasn't inclined to do hours of research and write pages on our shared history with Iran. I'm not the one to write it, anyway.

If I left out some key info, that was due to oversight, not intent.

My favorite uncle was in the CIA during those times, though probably not involved on the Iran project because he was stationed in Zambia. During his spare time, he did unguided hunts. Shot a buffalo on his own. Shot a leopard. Kudu, and other antelope. Great guy. I hunted pheasant with him. I miss him.

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

Israel made a huge mistake by attacking in Iran - While pound for pound, the IDF may have the best warfighters on the planet (who aren't Marines) they don't have the tonnage

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

Israel made a huge mistake by attacking in Iran - While pound for pound, the IDF may have the best warfighters on the planet (who aren't Marines) they don't have the tonnage

Not to worry, the US will cover the check Israel writes, we always do. The aircraft carriers are on the way.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

Israel made a huge mistake by attacking in Iran - While pound for pound, the IDF may have the best warfighters on the planet (who aren't Marines) they don't have the tonnage

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't like Iran's governing bodies - but I hold the Persians in high regard

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Bertram:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

Israel made a huge mistake by attacking in Iran - While pound for pound, the IDF may have the best warfighters on the planet (who aren't Marines) they don't have the tonnage

Not to worry, the US will cover the check Israel writes, we always do. The aircraft carriers are on the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Hasher:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by Jefffive:
I think Iran is about to make a major mistake, and if the Israeli air defense effort combined with those of our deployed assets aren't able to prevent significant Israeli civilian casualties Iran's mistake could quickly become catastrophic.

At the exact moment they should be working to undermine what little legitimacy Netanyahu has left they are about to greatly bolster it.

Historically, Persians/Iranians produced some of the finest political and strategic thinkers in the civilized world, but not lately.

Israel made a huge mistake by attacking in Iran - While pound for pound, the IDF may have the best warfighters on the planet (who aren't Marines) they don't have the tonnage

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't like Iran's governing bodies - but I hold the Persians in high regard

How many sovereign countries would those Iranian armored columns have to roll through, along how many limited routes all while being attritted along the way?

My guess is that they would be lucky to have a weakened regiment by the ti e the hit Israeli soil.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by RolandtheHeadless:
Yeah. Iran turned to Russia/Soviet Union after their revolution because the US CIA overthrew their elected president and installed the Shah as the leader of the country.

If some nation did that to us, we'd hate them too.

uhm, you might want to research/expand on that .. just a bit.. you aren't wrong, but that over simplification is, well, a gross over simplification .

the shah was in charge BEFORE Mosaddegh, and the brits MIGHT have had a little influence there

nuances are actually important

Yes, my words were only intended as a simplification, since I wasn't inclined to do hours of research and write pages on our shared history with Iran. I'm not the one to write it, anyway.

If I left out some key info, that was due to oversight, not intent.

My favorite uncle was in the CIA during those times, though probably not involved on the Iran project because he was stationed in Zambia. During his spare time, he did unguided hunts. Shot a buffalo on his own. Shot a leopard. Kudu, and other antelope. Great guy. I hunted pheasant with him. I miss him.

Non-history buffs can safely ignore this post

Back in the dim and misty, when i was working on my first degree, I took a senior level course from a libertarian prof, which was called "CIA interventions in the 3rd world" or something close to that {omitted}

In this course, we looked at several cases where the CIA had been involved.. The Congo, Guatemala, Honduras, Cuba, and Iran come to mind, though we sent the majority of time on Iran. It's arguable that Mosaddegh was the "populist" leader in Iran, and was the subject of the 1953 coup - which was far more of a product of MI6 than the CIA - and some people mistakenly believe that this was a CIA action, "restoring" the Shah -- while skipping over the British and Russian "succession" of the first Pahlavi Shah (the "Shah's" dad) over Reza's, hmm, admiration of Hitler .. yeah, "admiration" is a useful term, but shouldn't be confused with the Muslim brotherhood, as while the Persians were largely Muslim, they were also secular in government and civilly - though fundamentalists wanted a return to Sharia - which we all know happened. The Shah "never forgave" the Russians and Brits for "deposing" his father, even though it resulted in him being on the throne.

Some people are confused that the 1953 coup "created" the shah - this isn't truthful - though it did pull back the power of the civil government over the constitutional monarch - that is, the Shah gained back more powers than had been the case is practice, it didn't change the constitution . This being nearly (i am being lazy) 30 years before the revolution, it created resentment for the Shah himself

It is NOT covered enough in media, though much more so in academic work, that the Russian influence on Khomeini was critical for the 1979 revolution - and likely equally critical is that Iranians are Persians and not Arabs - these are different peoples sharing a religion, even to the point to mark out, that they speak Persian, not Arabic.

Why mention that? Most of the "middle east", as American's think of it, speak Arabic, and one's milk tongue creates thoughts and pathways. Iranians are different, and, frankly, a distinctly different group when discussing how to handle the ME -- Iranians are/were thinkers, poets, scholars, and scientists while most of the rest of the world were beating each other over the head with wooden clubs.

yes, I have a TON of respect for the Persian culture


Anyway, (and this is a thumbnail) The 70s saw the Russians funding/supporting Khomeini, including offering alliances and state recognition - then their recession after the oil crisis, and the Shah "fleeing" the country, Khomeini took over, and the Iranian Republic aligned with the Eastern Bloc - The CIA and MI6 had little to do with that part.

And that's why i threw the "yellow card" about "The CIA overthrew their elected President" -- Firstly that is was MI6 that lead that caper, but primarily because "overthrowing their elected president" happened 26 years before the revolution - almost 2 generations separated one event from the other -

Sigh, if i go on much longer i'd want to publish with my orcid ID for peer review

anyway, if you picked up a thing or two, nice - if this was boring, sorry

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:


Anyway, if you picked up a thing or two, nice -