maybe this has been answered before, but I am just wondering how tough it is to makes ones own rifle brass, say a 30-06 case or something like that.

I make brass for a living. I dont own the company but im the only one that know how to make it. What can I do for ya.

quote:

Originally posted by moonova:
I make brass for a living. I dont own the company but im the only one that know how to make it. What can I do for ya.

well, how is it made. what does one need to make it.

I think that the cost of the equipment to make any type of brass case would be to costly to the average person.When you can buy brass cases for around 30-50 cents a piece why would you want to make it? Especally 30-06 cases.
MHO
Larry

Hello;
Cartrige cases are made by a multiple punching and drawing process. I would think the cost of the tooling would put it beyond most peoples wallets.
Grizz

Hello;
I saw that Nicholas Cage movie, Warlord the other day. The opening scenes take you right through the production of a 7.62x39 round and its subsequent handling right up to the point where it schmucks some poor African kid in the forehead. obviously a bit melodramatic but you can see the case drawing sequences.
Grizz

Yeah I watched that just a minute ago...its a bunch of crap! A case doesnt just go from coin to necked case. Its quite a bit more complex then that. A quarter of a million dollars will set you up for brass making...small scale.

Moonova: This is a related brass case question,
you should be able to answer...
Suppose a regular brass manufacturer
who is already set up in production
making standard type (.30-06, .338, etc)
brass cases. How much of a problem is
the brass maker to make a case that is
a different one, say an obsolete case?
I have a friend, for example that wants
.510 Wells brass with the correct
headstamp...and another who wants
new .30 Newton Brass.
Is it a big deal for a manufacturer
who is making a lot of brass cases to
set up & make other brass cases for
example, like the ones I mentioned?

Thanks, Tom

Huntington, in Oroville, California carries a couple of dozen of this product, and it is very good, indeed. He will make nearly anything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The Hülsen-Horneber company was founded in 1983 and has since produced cartridge brass of the finest quality. In a complicated drawing process consisting of several steps, we draw raw brass disks into perfectly shaped cartridge cases. Each one strong and reliable."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Horneber's website has both German and English options.
Cheers from Darkest California,
Ross

Its not hard to do. The problem is the cost to do it. You have to make a few draw dies. Then you have to make a heading die. Necking dies...not to mention the punches to match. It cost too much to make a small run for the big boys.

My recollection is that Norma has a min. order of something like 100k cases. I believe Starline will do a custom stamp on an existing case but the min. order is substantial.
C.G.B.

If they have there own EDM they can make a custom bunter for around $200 part and labor. Add that to the top. Now, they are not going to tell you its only a couple hundred.

Bisonland,

Jamison will make a run of 5000 cases for just about anything you would want. You are likely to invest close to $10,000 in the operation though.
The 510 Wells could be had rather cheap I believe, since he would only need to buy a bunting die and go one more step from making 550 Magnum brass. I believe he is already setting up to make the run of 30 Newton and perhaps 35 and 411 Newton as well. Type Newton in the search field and go fish.

Rich

I'm waiting for one of our machinist types to tell us how to machine cartridge cases from a solid piece of brass. Possible?

Dave at Rocky Mountain Cartridge makes lathe turned brass. He tells me the problem with turned brass is that it isn't as strong as drawn brass and therefore can only handle something like 20,000-30,000 psi. OK for pistol, shotgun, and BP rifle cases, but will separate if loaded to standard pressures in modern calibers.

I don't think straight wall cases give many problems, it's the necked cases that become unruly.

I'm sure he can explain better than I.

http://rockymountaincartridge.com/

Both the flow of the metal from the typical back extrusion process and the series of annealing steps result in a case where different hardnesses throughout the case . The flow of metal does make a difference . These things you will not get in a machined case.So typical black powder pressures with staight cases are best for machined cases.

If You are really good on a lathe, you can make them on it.

It will be very time consuming though.

As posted before.....

The alloy of Turned brass is significantly different from that of Drawn brass alloy wise. Turned brass alloy is far more brittle, and does not withstand cold work like drawn brass alloy. It also doesn't anneal the same way -- doesn't soften and stretch like drawn brass does.

The folks on the Martini Henry and BPCR web boards can fill in the specifics..... but basically, compaison wise -- it is apples and oranges.

Turned brass shells are made for low pressure shells. They are also usually cut with a smaller powder chamber with fairly heavy chamber walls. (Bottle neck turned cartridges are turned outside to match the chamber and bored straight/cylinder inside.) Turned brass cartridges are also made with a seating step for the bullet -- which is pushed in by your fingers.

Usually, you can't die size turned brass cases because of the brittleness-- you file it down a bit when it starts getting tight in the chamber.

Press resizing turned brass usually ends up with either a broken reloading die or cracked brass.

Thanks

John

Even turned brass cases must be thin walled and annealed at the mouth. If not, the mouth area will not obturate and the shooter will likely receive some amount of blow by which could be dangerous depending on the action design.

If your interested in how its done ....... or maybe
better phrased how it was done, here's a link to a turn of the century book on cartridge manufacture.

http://www.archive.org/details/cartridgemanufac00hamirich

Its an interesting read .... not very practical for the do it yourself type, unless your a tool and die maker and have access to a well equipped facility.

why thank you for that link

So, I could turn some brass 12 and 20 ga shells on my lathe? Hmmm..... I also have this derringer in 45 / 410; I could load 410 slugs for this rifled barrel and probably get better accuracy than I do with the 45 Colt rounds.
Would I use the same internal / external dimensions of a plastic case? i.e. duplicate a sample plastic case from brass? no, nevermind that wouldn't seal when fired- it would have to have a thin mouth to seal.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
maybe this has been answered before, but I am just wondering how tough it is to makes ones own rifle brass, say a 30-06 case or something like that.

The 1889 Mauser case head design, when built with a large Boxer primer and shot in a strong rifle is good for 62kpsi sustained.
That would include but is not limited to 22-250, 243, 6mm Rem, 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 260 Rem, 6.5x55 [US brass], 270, 7mm-08, 7x57mm, 280, 308, 30-06, 8x57mm, 338F, 358, and 35W.

Two gunsmiths I know of have independently developed Mauser case heads made of steel and threaded to brass bodies are Randy Ketchum and Dick Casull.

This was to overcome the pressure limitation.

But one can now buy 6mmBR or 6.5x47mm brass with get you the Mauser case head extractor groove shape, but with a small rifle primer pocket. This coupled with a bushed firing pin allows the higher pressures that are sought.

What does it all mean?
When you can buy brass with a CCI450 magnum small rifle primer is ready to pierce with .062" bushed firing pin, and your brass is surviving, you have brass that is good as you need.

tnekkcc,
Have you ever tried overloading a steel 7.62X54R case in a chamber with a close fit around the case head?

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
tnekkcc,
Have you ever tried overloading a steel 7.62X54R case in a chamber with a close fit around the case head?

I have overloaded it in a 91/30 and an M39 with S&B and Lapau brass.

I have used a Manson reamer to set back an M44, but I have not shot it yet.

I have not measured how tight the brass fits.
But I do poke pin gauges in allot of holes

What does it all mean?
The limit is the bolt is hard to lift.

quote:

Originally posted by tnekkcc:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
tnekkcc,
Have you ever tried overloading a steel 7.62X54R case in a chamber with a close fit around the case head?

I have overloaded it in a 91/30 and an M39 with S&B and Lapau brass.

I have used a Manson reamer to set back an M44, but I have not shot it yet.

I have not measured how tight the brass fits.
But I do poke pin gauges in allot of holes

What does it all mean?
The limit is the bolt is hard to lift.

I suspected that you measure everything you can.
A polished chamber would make for easier extraction to a point. I was just curious if the steel cases held up any better than brass.