DigitalDan

Yes Dan that's right ( an end over end tumble )

The Zink Washer's use as gas check's are far lighter in weight then the Copper gas check's of the same size
And since zink is so ( Swageable ) i was wondering about
making the zink's a bit thicker with out having to worry about causing bullet inbalance ...Making the tail/bottom of the bullet to light and the nose to heavy i thought that maybe becouse i was using a VLD .308 in the 220 grain
weight range i could use the Washer/Gas check as part of the baring surfice since the bullet has so little of it to start with..

The VLD's in .308 have about 1/16 Baring surfice the adding of washer's or gas check's was my way of adding baring surfice with out adding weight to the bullet it does change the designed intent of the VLD but not much .

Any thought's

Hey Martin, I didn't say I hadn't heard of them, just that I had no experience with them. The central issue you ask about is one of gyroscopic stability, and whether or not the addition of a zinc base in lieu of copper GC will upset the apple cart. My recollection of the zinc bases I've seen is that they are thicker than conventional gas checks, so while it may be less dense than copper, it may also weigh more than a gas check. In any event, I assume you are shooting cast or swaged lead, and if your gun handles 220 grains I figure that the zinc bases are not going to cause problems because of GS changes. As I alluded to in the previous post, any shift in CG by adding material to the base of the bullet will move rearward as compared to original form. The Center of Aerodynamic moments(CP) will not be moved significantly, so in the end result there is a very minor reduction of GS.

If you are asking in regards to doing this to jacketed bullets( ), the same factors are in play. Again, if your twist rate is marginal in the first place, it may show up on the paper, but mostly I doubt it would be an issue. I mention this only because of your comment about the VLD design. I am not AWARE of this form being successfully used in cast or swaged lead bullets. I do know that more than a few have tried to use spitzer designs with only marginal success at best.

You sound very much like someone i know

I talked with him last night for a short time on the phone
while be baked away from the heat in his shop in Phoenix. Oregon.

I decided not to go forth with the idea .
This started becouse i was hoping to do better with long range shot's over 800 to 900 yard's.
I was down to the ranch on the Six's shooting ridge to ridge
at a 4x8 shet of plywood i had set up ( i need a better scope ..Badly ) the wind come's off the Ocean and ia a real
killer while trying to keep a tight group the best i can come up with is a 12 inch group at around 900 yard's i need a far better scope and i an't getting any dam younger.
I am shooting 190 grain .308 Diam i used a a swage
to make the ogive /point/nose/ Super long and drawn out
leaving me almost no bering surfice. after talking to Richy
i decided maybe i was really falling into the same old trap
of trying to get the best of both world's and winding up getting neither i decided to go to a bigger bullet
220 grain or larger and i am going to put a light weight jacket on them somthing on the order of a 0.0100 wall thickness...

Sound advice DigitalDan

Ya i can ..If i want to get a new point forming die..
I will look into it soon.
Right now i have .366's and a few other's i am working on
to get right.

Thank's for the info ... i will cut the post to my comp
and give it a better look over this evening

Thank's guy

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Pottsy
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O ya and Richy say's i am not really a big pain in the Ass
just mildly Discomforting

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Zink Gas Checks? I have to admit I have heard of them but, you know, I live here in the Copper Country and folks here abouts take a dim view of substituting something for copper, especially when it don't work so good!
Seriously, I never tried them but had thought of using the copper base guard bullets for a .444 Marlin with Micro Groove rifleing as I had always heard it was poor for cast bullets, and thought it would 'grab' rifleing better. Seem to remember Veral Smith saying in his book that that was the real purpose of gas checks. I do not know if that Micro Groove complaint is true as I have also heard that Micro Groove should be just fine if the cast bullets fill the bore as the Micro Groove least disturbs the bullet shape which leads to better accuracy. Which I understand is a Harry Pope theory. I have not yet tried it out but am just relaying 'stuff' rumored. Have heard of beer can aluminum for gas checks too. Anyone tried them?

Copper Country

since Ted Psted away it's been almost impossable to get Zinc Washer's so i use what ever i can get my hand's on and
i have used aluminum Washer's as well for a gas check.
Hay while were talking i was down in the pit digging around and came up with 5 : 508x 0.030x 1.245 jacket's and the same amount in 1.334 lenght in .508 Diam for the 50's
Would you like to give them a try in your 50 cal die set
? And as far as micro grove goes ..a gas check is a gas check that's all that thay are if you use copper of Zinc or aluminum . all it's really for is to check the gas leak

I found that for plinking i really like the .700 jacket lenght in a 0.010 jacket in .458 it will draw up or down for testing on about any bullet design in almost any Diam
I have made them into .308' diam jacket's and all the way up to .508 diam jacket's there kinda short in .458 or .510 but just for testing or plinking there great and there alot cheaper to buy off the rack.

I also was looking down in the pit/basement.
and found a few sack's of old base gaurd's in .458 diam
and some for 308. and two more box's of gas check cup's for 308. Some day i have to open all.!! the draw's up and peek inside..

Anyway the offer's on the table if you want to try the
jacket's out

Martin: Thanks for the offer, but I don't use a .510 bullet swaging die set. The die I use is a reloading press die much like a wild cat case forming die. It is used with a shell holder and essentially necks down the case just like necking a .375 cal case down to .30 cal, only with a bullet shaped shoulder. The case is formed from the outside rather than being expanded from the inside with a punch forcing lead outward against a die wall like conventional bullet swaging. It is a single die operation to form the case. The rest is just filling the case an trimming off the belt. My die was made by Near Manufacturing of Canada and I do not know if he still makes these. Any die maker should be able to do so.

Hay if it work's
That's why (?) the base i swage have no bottom ring .!
Your's still look better cool though ...
I will be doing up strip or roll sheet copper jacket's once i get my hydro/multy swage from rich.
My old lathe bit the dust not long ago so i bought one just like it and once it came and i set it up i found out
( to late) that is was bad off then mine was
So i am back to square one looking for another variable speed machine to work on ..