A prime example of people who vote not knowing the subject. Nashville? Pah!

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
New (to me) spot in Frisco called 3-Stacks. Sounds a little hot & cold, but sounds like on a good day, it may be very good. That being said, the review here is from a girl. I don't believe girls really have the knack for identifying good Q.
http://www.dallasnews.com/ente...--if-youre-lucky.ece

I had to go to DFW airport yesterday to pick up my wife and 2 girls. Not to waste a trip, and partially as a result of the above article, I met my Q tasting buddy and we took off from Arlington for the longish drive to Friso to try.....

#75) 3 Stacks Smoke and Tap House, 4226 Preston Rd, Frisco, Texas 75034. My overall rating B---

Nice looking new joint with the smoker's (electric or gas fired, using hickory mostly) to the left of the main entrance.

Spacious and we had a pleasant looking and pleasant waitress. That, and the beer list, is the best that can be said of the joint.

They had a nice menu, including pizza, which might be a clue that the Q ain't as good as it was rumored to be. The menu was substantially better than the Q.

We ordered a pound of "moist" (fatty) brisket, a pound of beef ribs, a 1/2 pound of baby back ribs, and a 1/2 pound of Burnt Ends (fairly rare in Texas Q joints). Beef rib and brisket was $18 and $16/lb. BB ribs were $16/lb and burnt ends wer $18/lb. All prices are quite high by normal Q standards but this is an upscale restaurant in an upscale area, serving yuppie types who apparently don't know the value of money or good Q.

Menu had a long list of draught beer, I wound up trying a 16 oz Alaska Amber, $6, which was very drinkable and the best thing we had, since the waitress was not on the menu.

BB ribs were hard, not really overcooked, but hard and not particularly palatable. I'm not sure how they accomplished this, but I wouldn't try to duplicate it.

Beef Ribs were black, looking like a piece of burnt oak that someone had put out before the fire had finished it's work. Somewhat overcooked, but better than the BB ribs.

The brisket was, by far, the best of the 3 meats (the burnt ends were basically sliced off brisket with a bit more outside char because of the thinner cross section, not bad, ranking basically the same as the brisket) but it was just average decent at best. Very salty on outside, not as bad as Lockhart's, but still quite salty. All the meats had a fairly overpowering single spice flavor which I couldn't identify, not unpleasant, but not really additive to the Q either. The brisket was slightly overcooked, no "pull", but was a decent example of Q.

I believe the sauce was Cattleman's that they pour in their own labeled jar, which means it was a decent thin tomato based sauce with a middle of the road taste.

I would DEFINITELY not go back for the Q, the beer and the atmosphere might make it a good place to kick back on a Friday evening.

Gato,

I think that waitress is influencing you. Goint back to a B-?

My youngest daughter's team was at a softball tournament in Longview over the weekend (they won qualifying for USFA World Series, congratulations to all the girls and Coach Gray) and after the last game, my wife went by another of the plethora of Bodacious Barbecue in East Texas and brought home a sampling of their Q. So here is a review for....

#76) Bodacious Bar-B-Q, 1300 NW Loop 281, Longview, Tx. My overall rating B--.

We had a couple of pounds of ribs, brisket, and about a pound of smoked sausage. They were all in the same taste class, that is, ordinary.

The brisket and ribs both had a nice appearance, but very little flavor. Brisket was slightly crumbly. Neither was bad, but neither was good. Edible would be my best descriptive. Qphiles would probably use "roast beef" for the brisket.

The sausage, which is almost certainly Hill's Farms or Eckrich had a decent smoke flavor but being commercial had no real signature taste. Of the 3 meats, I'd choose this as best with the ribs and Q tied for a not too distant second.

Sauce was the Bodacious mixture, which is fairly good tomato based with a decent Q sauce flavor. Slightly better than average and, in this case, it helped the Q out.

I've reviewed three Bodacious now in Longview, and this is by far the worst. I would avoid it and go to the one on N. St. or Mobberly which were both much superior when I tried them.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
Gato,

I think that waitress is influencing you. Goint back to a B-?

Lavaca:

I understand at your age that attractive women, beer, and kicking back on a Friday is not on your radar screen. Probably not mine either......but I still remember how.
And.....as I spelled out, the beers and the atmosphere is worthy of consideration, just don't get the Q.

Cold, Gato, very cold.

I do remember.

I had to go to Wylie, Texas with my son yesterday to pick up a pink (and I do mean PINK) canoe I bought yesterday. We weren't particularly hungry but when we passed by this joint on the way in, my radar screen lit up and I told Adam, "Let's try it on the way back." We did and stopped by....



#77) Big Daddy's Roadhouse BBQ, 1000 State Hwy 78, Lavon, Tx 75166. This joint was in the Texas Monthly Top 50 in the 2008 version. Even though it still has the same owner, I can certainly see why it wasn't in later versions. My overall grade B-

We went in, and ordered a pound of brisket, a half rack of ribs, and a half pound of sliced jalapeno sausage.

We went in the dining area, (walls are liberally coated with pics of celebrities that have eaten there, including Mike Tyson, who, I assume found the q better than ear) and tried the meats.

The ribs were by far the best and were basically good but not great Q. Worth going back for them, if you were lost in E Texas, because you'd have to be lost to find this place unless you live in the area or Wylie, which is booming as a sub-suburb of Dallas.

I thought the brisket was fair at best, Adam has a lesser opinion.

If the sausage had any jalapenos they were well hidden. Again, solid average minus.

Sauce was served hot, slightly thick tomato based with some decent spice flavor. Better than average.

It was like many Texas Q joints, decent, but not notable. I would go back for the ribs if I was in the vicinity, but the other meats should be given a miss.

This tick could make you swear-off BBQ.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news...ers-and-barbecue.ece

Scary.

I didn't like ticks much before, now I like them even less.

Yesterday, I had to make a quick business trip to Ft. Worth to meet with my friend and business associate, as well as one of my Q buddies (all the same person). I was under some time pressure because I wanted to be able to attend the high school volleyball game that my daughter plays in (they won!!, which was unexpected since Atlanta is a much larger school) in Atlanta. So we hatched a scheme where one of his employees would go to Pecan Lodge in Dallas and pick up enough Q for us and the other employees in his office so we could work right up to lunch and afterwards if need be.

For those who don't know, Pecan Lodge has moved from it's prior location in the Farmer's Market which was basically just South of downtown Dallas to his new location in Deep Ellum, which is an old, revitalizing neighborhood just East of DT Dallas.

The scheme worked to perfection, Q arrived at office about 11:45 or so, still warm in the heavy foil containers. There were six pounds or so each of pork ribs, beef ribs, and brisket. To save flavor, taste, moisture, etc the brisket was unsliced. My pocketknife served as the slicer, worked well, after we wiped the cowshit off.

78) So, since there is a new location, this is a new review (old #55) of Pecan Lodge, 2701 Main St, Dallas 75226. 4.75 on Texas Monthly's Top 50 list. My Overall score, down slightly from before to A---.

The brisket and beef ribs were both very superior products. The general office crowd seemed to prefer the brisket, but my buddy and I were enamored with the beef ribs. Basically too close to call as which was the best. Both had a dark, nearly black finish, with some salt and other spices in there. Both were dead tender, without being overcooked. Really Superior.

The pork ribs were the reason I slightly lowered the rating. Again, very good, but just not up to the quality of the other two meats. A good bite, but without enough "uumph" to be outstanding. Not quite as tender as the beef.

The sauce was a tomato based, fairly thin, with some spices. I didn't find that it added to the meat. Average plus would be my best description.

We also had beans and cole slaw. I didn't think much of beans, ok, slightly better than canned but not all that good. The slaw I really enjoyed, very little if any mayonaisse and a great slightly sweet flavor. I'd recommend it unless your preferences lean towards the normal mayonnaise with some cabbage in it style.

All in all, a very highly respectable Q experience and one that will be very difficult to beat in Dallas IMO.

With the new location, they have expanded their hours, open 11-3 everday, and 11 to 10 PM on Friday and Saturday. Luckily the employee (BTW this guy is worthy of a whole article, retired Marine Col., chopper pilot in VN, and a helluva nice guy unless he needs to kill you) got there early because, like Franklin's in Austin, the line was really long by the time they opened. He was about 7 or 8 in line.

Definitely worthy of a Q stop, but be very early or late unless waiting in line is one of your preferred activities.

FYI Hinze's in Wharton burned down.......they won Food & Wine one year ? 2000s???. I never thought they were that great- no loss.

Mustang Creek just past Hillje is better. Unfortunately I have a hiatal hernia and just can't do BBQ any more- belch too much.

I'm sorry to hear about Hinze's. It's been 5 years since I reviewed it....damn, sure doesn't seem that long....but I thought it was pretty good.

I'll try Mustang Creek if I get down that way. Thanks for the tip and the update.

Hutchins in McKinney operating under their own name in Frisco location.
http://eatsblog.dallasnews.com...bq-open-frisco.html/

If anyone finds themselves in Anniston Alabama, try Cooter Browns. Go at happy hr and try the rib plate.

Stopped by Naamans last week. The truck still serves, but the indoor (gas station) is finished and nicely done. The BBQ remains excellent!

Ok, that's the second time you've eaten there without giving me a call, I'd even buy since it is in my backyard.....grrrrh.

In PA anything slathered in sauce is called barbecue so imagine my surprise when I found an actual barbecue joint in PA BDs Smoking Barbecue on Rt 66 in Lucinda Pa is actually pretty darned good. It is take out only and large orders need to prebook. I hesitate to give it a grade due to my relative lack of experience, but if you are in the area I recommend you give it a try.

If I get up that way, which isn't too likely, I'll sure try the joint.

I'm looking forward to this week, I bought a boat in Wisconsin (is that a state? ) and am going to stop by 17th Street in Murphysboro, Il to try their world famous ribs. It will be very interesting and tasty to see how they compare to Texas style. It's location conveniently divides the trip into 2 8+ hour segments.

I wish I had one of my kids or a Q eating buddy to go with me, but this trip will be solo.

In Wis. I am going to New London, which is W of Green Bay. Anyone have any interesting places to eat, buy cheese, etc? I will be towing a boat trailer so access and parking is a consideration.

Gato,

Good call on Mi Dia - excellent food.

I also stopped by Angelo for some great brisket.

Mike

Watched a rerun of Anthony Bourdain - No Reservation (Austin) last night. Made me hungry all over again.

If you haven't seen it. (BBQ porn at it's best.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E0AEPqHfnU

http://www.travelchannel.com/v...ns-franklin-barbecue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv66SWn3JGA

He also visited jMueller.

http://www.travelchannel.com/v...austins-jmueller-bbq

I'll pass I miss real bbq enough already without torturing myself. I liked Ironworks, The Stallion, County Line and a joint in an old gas station whose name I forget but I haven't been back to Austin in years. And that place in Luling where we stopped on our way back from fishing at Port Lavaca was good too.

As mentioned above, I had to make a flying trip up to New London, Wi (W of Green Bay) to pick up a boat. And it was flying, pulling an empty trailer on way up, and same with boat on it on way back, 2100 miles in 48 hours. So I didn't have any real time to sample cheeses or sausages in Wisconsin. I would have, but didn't see any shops that were open on my route.

However, not to waste a trip, on the way up I went through Southern Illinois to try a Q joint that had been near the top of my list for years.....

#79)17th Street BBQ, 32 N. 17th St., Murphysboro, Il 62966. Open Mon-Sat 10-10. This was started by Mike Mills, who is one of, if not the most winning Q contests cooks ever. He currently runs 3 17th Sts, in S. Illinois, and 2 Memphis Championship Barbecues in Las Vegas. His ribs were named the best in American by Bon Appetit Magazine in 2007. In spite of all that,my overall grade is B++.

I walked in and was impressed with the main room. Like many small town bar/restaurants, it had a L shaped bar running most of the length of the room. There were dining tables there, in a another area behind the bar area, and in another side room called "The Pig Pen". There was also a patio area outside. The walls were decorated with pics of Mike Mills and family barbecuing, etc. Pleasant atmosphere.

Sat down, and noticed that there was no meats by the pound, so I ordered a slab of the famous ribs ($23), and a 2 meat plate of brisket ($19) and beef sausage.

The ribs were good, nice color, but the flavor which I could best describe as mild really didn't do it for me. The brisket (4 slices) was tender, little smoke penetration, and, in general, a decent but not outstanding effort. The sausage was good, not as fatty as many of the Texas versions.

The place is noted for Mills Magic Dust, which is sort of a Tony Cachere dumbed down IMO. Salt based, slightly sweet, with other spices but not much heat. I found it to be rather insipid, but I like my pour on to be more pronounced.

One of the stars, IMO, was the barbecue sauce, which was sort of a tawny yellow, with a mustard base, vinegar, spices, slightly sweet. I really thought it was outstanding and a significant change from the normal tomato based sauce we are used to in Texas.

The two plates I ordered each came with 2 sides, so I chose potato salad (good, fairly heavy on mayo), green beans with brisket (outstanding, a really exceptional dish), collard greens (sweet, which I don't like....I recall that Pecan Lodge in Dallas does the same thing, not to my taste), and garlic bread (decent, not much garlic).

There was a draft beer, 17th St Amber Ale, which a customer recommended, and it was fairly good, with a bit more lean to the porter side than I'd prefer but certainly a decent brew. Served in pint glasses for $3, and well worth it. It is made by a local Murphysboro brewery, Big Muddy Brewery.

Service was spotty. My first waitress more or less abandoned me and one of the bartenders took over and was very nice, but the food came fairly slowly IMO. The place had a decent supply of customers but certainly not enough to overwhelm the supply side.

All in all, very decent Q, and I debated quite a while about whether to give it another plus, but the brisket was just not good enough. The ribs are interesting, different style from Texas, and I liked them, but "best ribs in America".....give me a break. Certainly worth visiting for the ribs and the experience but not worth a long trip for, IMO.

I always wonder what kind of wood is used in making q. I'd like to do a little comparative research on this as surely this must be afactor.

Three most prevalent woods in the south are mesquite, oak and hickory. Some pecan, Apple and alder are used by some. Different oaks can provide different flavors. My personal taste runs towards mesquite and live oak. Others may have different favorites; all taste buds are not the same.

In Texas you need a piece of meat, salt, pepper, and oak. Anything else is nervous energy and background noise.

I would really like to see an honest taste comparison between good BBQ woods, with the judges being well known BBQ contest judges. I would like to see what percentage of judges can taste a brisket or rib and accurately tell which wood was used. My guess is that if five different woods were used, they would get it right about 20% of the time.

I'm no BBQ judge, just a cook and eater. My Dad is a Mesquite man. I'm a pecan man. I've impressed some people w/ my olfactory senses. I'll bet that My tongue can tell the difference b/w oak,pecan and mesquite.

I think I could probably pick out oak, pecan/hickory, and mesquite from each other IF the meat was just smoked, that is no rub or wet sauce on it.

Mesquite is mostly used in central and South Texas and points West. It produces a fairly mild flavor but has a slight sharp taste to it.

Hickory and it's relative pecan was and is the choice of most old time Qer's, especially towards the East. If I had to choose, I'd take hickory over the others. To me, pecan produces one of the mildest of smokes.

Oaks come in many different varieties. Around here the hardest and hottest oak is Post Oak (that's why this area is known as Post Oak Savanna). I personally haven't had Live Oak Q that I know of. I'm sure there would be some distinct taste differences between meat smoked with red oak vs white oak as an example.

Mike Mills of 17th St mentions that he uses Apple among others in his contest Q. Whether he uses it in his commercial joints I don't know.

The old Q hands around here swear that cooking with any real quantity of green wood will make the Q taste bitter. I've never tried it, so just take them at their word.

G

Your first sentence is what I'm getting at. I watched a YouTube video of a brisket cook a few weeks ago. He was going on about the importance of the right wood, then prepped the meat with a wet coating of combined flavors, followed by three, count them "3", layers of different flavored rubs, followed by an injection of more additional flavors. There is no way that guy could taste the flavor of the meat, let alone the wood chips he used.

I'm skeptical that anyone can tell the flavor of different oaks in a blind smoke test either. I would have to see that to believe it.

My rule is that I avoid unseasoned "green" wood, evergreen varieties, cedars, and treated wood. Other than that I'll burn anything that's on my property, and no one has complained. Bodark has so much resin/sap, that I don't use large quantities of it, but search "Bodark Smoke BBQ" and you'll read that it is famous in Oklahoma and Kansas as a smoking wood.

I read one blurb on the Internet that said absolutely don't use mesquite. Being from West Texas, why bother to clear-off a location, move in a drilling rig, and drill an oil/gas well if you aren't going to use the cleared mesquite for grilling/smoking a piece of meat. That is the only reason there is an oilfield in West Texas.

I have smoked with green wood and did find a bitter result. My theory is that the green wood burns at a lower temperature and therefore creatures more creosote yielding the bitterness. Just theory, I have no proof. My favorite woods are in order: Pecan, Hickory, Oak and Mesquite.
However living on the middle coast and spending a lot of time in South Texas I have access to mostly Oak and Mesquite. I have on occasion had bitter results using pure Mesquite. For that reason I use a 50/50 Oak/Mesquite.

Excuse me if this was already addressed on here. But, what says the majority about using wood with and without the bark still attached? Have you noticed any difference in flavor? The last chicken I roasted was over hickory chunks on top of briquettes with a lot of bark and it tasted dirty. Would the bark have anything to do with that?

I've never bothered to remove bark.

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog:
I have smoked with green wood and did find a bitter result. My theory is that the green wood burns at a lower temperature and therefore creatures more creosote yielding the bitterness. Just theory, I have no proof. My favorite woods are in order: Pecan, Hickory, Oak and Mesquite.
However living on the middle coast and spending a lot of time in South Texas I have access to mostly Oak and Mesquite. I have on occasion had bitter results using pure Mesquite. For that reason I use a 50/50 Oak/Mesquite.

Nope....green wood does not burn at a lower temp. Green wood smoulders (puts out much more smoke .... that is: unburned particulate matter) at the same temps that dry wood burns more cleanly.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Excuse me if this was already addressed on here. But, what says the majority about using wood with and without the bark still attached? Have you noticed any difference in flavor? The last chicken I roasted was over hickory chunks on top of briquettes with a lot of bark and it tasted dirty. Would the bark have anything to do with that?

Bark contains alot of tannins, which can cause bitterness to the smoked meats. The Icelandic fishermen in central Manitoba smoke with local oak, while removing all bark prior, to reduce bitterness. All tree species have tannins in bark....some more/less that others.

Would the unburned particulate matter include creosote?

quote:

Originally posted by Lawdog:
Would the unburned particulate matter include creosote?

Yes ....and if those chemicals are in the tree wood naturally.....and how much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote

Just read this last page of this thread. I cannot bear to read any more, being in mostly Q-deprived Oregon ...

I don't think Oregon has one wood I would smoke meat with. That's not to say you guys aren't smokin' something up there.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I don't think Oregon has one wood I would smoke meat with. That's not to say you guys aren't smokin' something up there.

I think they have Alder, the traditional wood for smoking salmon.
It ain't Q but it is fit to eat.
Whether you've been smoking or not.

The latest Pecan Lodge review.

http://www.dallasnews.com/ente...ly-to-deep-ellum.ece

If there is anything I hate worse than weak Bar-B-Q it is pretentious Bar-B-Q reviewers who think they are Hemingway.

"Slabs of fatty brisket...tremble and ooze"
"Sliced across the grain, they glisten in the autumn sun. Hello, luscious!"
"a chorus line of pork ribs sheathed in coal-dark bark and a mound of pulled pork all beg to be devoured. The air is perfumed (if you can call it that) with the winsome scent of wood smoke."

I fear poor Leslie Brenner had an orgasm before the Q arrived, then carried on....

"squiggles of chipotle cream"
"The bartender carried our bottle of Rioja and a trio of those Riedel glasses to our table and proceeded to open the bottle and over-fill the glasses without presenting the wine or letting anyone taste it first."

I would give my left nut to have my wine glass overfilled just once.

Meanwhile Leslie clutched a paperback version of Fifty Shades of Grey (and possibly something else), reading feverishly, while devouring each trembling morsel of Pecan Lodge Q.

Snap out of it Leslie, it's Bar-B-Q. You don't need your wine presented for tasting anymore than you need your beer presented for tasting. Get over yourself. If I were your server, I would jerk the uneaten meat out from under your trembling lips and tell you to get your sh*t out the door.

Look at your check stub next month, and if it's not in five figures to the left of the decimal, enjoy your brown-bag bologna sandwich you normally bring to work for lunch, and present yourself that day-in-day-out Diet Coke for tasting.

Having said all that, a rating of three out of five doesn't sound like Pecan Lodge is maintaining their normal standard. But, on the grand-Ebola scale of things, who cares. I have five excellent Q joints between me and Deep Ellum.