I've been hearing a lot lately about the VA over-medicating their patients; to the point of killing them. I've always been cautious about doctors recommending new / more medications since about 1972 when an old doctor got me on Valium for no good reason.

My sister-in-law just fell and broke her hip. They are delaying surgery as they discovered her prescribed dose of blood thinner was more than double the proper dose.

I was taking Warfarin up until two years ago when an Australian doctor offered conflicting advice to what my American doctor had recommended. I started taking Warfarin years ago after a very serious AFib incident in Venezuela. The Warfarin (blood thinner) was recommended to help combat strokes, blood clots, etc. The Australian doctor said at my age he thought I shouldn't be taking blood thinners, that if I had a serious accident I might bleed-out, and the risk of a serious accident (car, home, work.) was probably higher than the risk of having a stroke. What to do?!? I switched to low-dose aspirin.

For breakfast I take:

That low-dose aspirin
A Folic Acid pill
A B-12 mega-vitamin (I'm going to stop this after I finish the bottle I've got.)

With my evening meal I take:

a One-A-Day Men's Health Formula Vitamin
a Simvastatin
a Metoprolol

A lot of people take a lot more medication than I take, so I should feel lucky, but no matter what you take, you probably need to review your drug intake and make sure everything is justified.

At age 90 doctors determined my mother was taking unnecessary medications for conditions she no longer had, and for conditions that even if present might kill her in, say, twenty years. She died at 93.

First thing is how old are you? What kind of physical shape are you in and how active are you.

I retired in 2006 at age 55 and had a total replacement of my left knee. They had me on Rat Poison, Warfarin for a couple of months but then weaned me off of it.

I am 63 now and take one multivitamin daily, one pill for hypertension and one for cholesterol, but at my latest blood test the Doc said my test results were great.

In 2009 I started working for a long time friend, 40 years +, dropped about 40 pounds or so and am active 8 to 10 hours daily, and feel like I am in the best shape of my life.

Talk with your Doc and monitor how you feel on your own. You can tell when your feeling good and when things are not quite right.

That all may sound pretty simplistic, but sometimes it is the simple things that work.

I take a small dose of lisinoprin for hypertension and Avodart for the prostate. I really think statins are whooey. The medical establishment is finally accepting on a large scale that there is no link between cholesterol levels and heart disease, that is most likely a result of inflamation. Just like ulcers were never a result of anxiety oir nerves; just a common bacterial infection.

Bad news is I do have low testosterone and I'm going to have to decide which treatment to take pretty soon. I'm leaning toward pellets in the butt so I only have to remeber my meds every 4-5 months.

My wife suffered a lot pain over and above her arthritis and for years doctors missed the underlying cause. Turns out her body doen't metabolize vitamin D and the deficiency was causing most of her discomfort. Once she started taking prescription strength D supplements it went away.

I think the trick is to find a doctor that really listens instead of jumping to the first probable conclusion.

I'm 65. I take four vitamins every morning. I was taking the baby aspirin but stopped when I noticed lots of bruising on my arms from working around the house and shop.
I have self prescribed a couple of shots of bourbon every week.
That's it.

Jim

The way I started the low-dose aspirin was that my wife had to stop taking them because she was bruising like crazy...and I never laid a hand on her.

My dad was put on Valium after a mild heart attack. It messed him up something fierce. Tough time for my family. Once he flushed them, everything got better.

The toilets in Texas must have been full of valium.

I dumped mine in 1972. In the mornings my wife would have to sit me up in bed before she went to start breakfast because I couldn't seem to wake up.

The day I flushed them was when I got in the shower and was standing there with my back to the shower, and it dawned on me how stupid I was that I had forgotten to turn on the water. I turned around and the water hit me square in the face. It was on, I just wasn't able to feel it. That scared the Hell out of me, and I dried off and flushed the pills, then and there.

New guidelines for preventing heart attacks and strokes http://www.dallasnews.com/news...holesterol-drugs.ece

quote:

The medical establishment is finally accepting on a large scale that there is no link between cholesterol levels and heart disease, that is most likely a result of inflamation.

Source it, please.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:

quote:

The medical establishment is finally accepting on a large scale that there is no link between cholesterol levels and heart disease, that is most likely a result of inflamation.

Source it, please.

If you care enough you can do your own homework, Gato.

Guess that means it's BS, hunh? If I can't source what I state as facts, then I won't state it.

Funny, the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Assoc. just came out YESTERDAY with a long awaited report on new recommendations for heart care. Among the highlights was ways to lower cholesterol and how important it was and how aggressively it should be managed.

Why don't you do some more research?

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Guess that means it's BS, hunh? If I can't source what I state as facts, then I won't state it.

Funny, the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Assoc. just came out YESTERDAY with a long awaited report on new recommendations for heart care. Among the highlights was ways to lower cholesterol and how important it was and how aggressively it should be managed.

Why don't you do some more research?

No, it means whatever I put up you'll have a retort because you already believe otherwise. It's the internet no one believes what they choose not to, regardless.

FWIW the big news about statins and why their use is recommended for more people has mostly to do with their hereto unexpected performance as an anti-inflammatory and the fact that this is of benefit in reducing the risk of stroke.

I'm personally going to keep taking my statins to help offset all that Bar-B-Q Gato makes me eat, and because they make me purty according to my wife.

So what is your wife taking to come to that conclusion?


I need some of that for mine!

I take 40mg of Lisinopril and a beta blocker for hypertension and anxiety, than 900mg of gabapentin for fibromyalgia, plus 4-5 10/325mg Percocets and 2-3 10mg Flexerol from my car accident. I might be upgraded to morphine or something along those lines soon due to the percocet not really helping.
The VA has thrown tons of hypertension medications at me to find the right combination, as I have polycystic kidney disease. As far as pain medications I had to beg for something stronger than Advil, hence the gabapentin. The only unnecessary med they've given me was Vitamin D supplements which I refuse to take. I will say that in my case it's been hard to get treatment from them, and when I say I'm in pain their immediate response is oh crap, kidney disease, you just need to tough it out. The disease isn't even advanced and my flow rates are awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
I'm personally going to keep taking my statins to help offset all that Bar-B-Q Gato makes me eat, and because they make me purty according to my wife.

I was told years ago by a doctor buddy of mine that if someone drank to excess then the damage to their liver would inhibit the production of cholesterol in the blood, that alcoholics almost never have high cholesterol. Whether that is true or not, I dunno, but I've walked the fine line between excess and falling down drunk for years and am still alive, amazingly enough.

I am sure I'm going to die because of my distaste for the medical system. Just yesterday I had an appointment at a doctor's office at 3 PM, my first in 6 months and my third in 20 years. I was at the window at 2:59. 28 minutes later I was still waiting. I walked up and told them I wasn't sick enough to wait that long, to cancel my appointment and I won't be back. This is not someone who is on call for emergencies at a hospital, which I can understand, but simply a country doctor, actually a PA.

New Q report will be filed shortly.

At one point they wanted to give me another pill. "what's that for ?" "just in case " "no thanks I don't practice 'just in case medicine' "
My hunting buddy came extremely close to dying this year .The heart medicine content was far more than it should have been ! Don't remember off hand the drug but it's reputation is very bad !! [ cumadin sp? ]
Make sure you know exactly what you take , what it does and the side effects .

The older we get, the more complicated it gets. My grandfather had a glass of brandy every night. He didn't believe in any other medication.

He believed in direct action for health issues. Because he loved his dog, Sport, if another dog came on his farm, it died. He was afraid they would bring rabies with them.

My wife is now saying I have sleep apnea. I don't think holding a pillow over my face qualifies as sleep apnea. I think there is something else going on, and I intend to fully investigate it.

We'll investigate for you, should you suddenly drop off AR.

Gents I believe in the power of the mind and spirit more then most of the pills and potions of the medical community.
Two-three fingers of a moderate fine bourbon does a nice job of mellowing one out after a long day.
What works best is hanging out with my 6 year old grand daugther. She's so darned smart, absorbs info and lessons like a sponge.
When was the last time you collected leaves and pressed and dried them for putting them in a note book.

jim

I get the silver medal, I'd go for the gold, but the last patient at the VAMC who did that here died.

I am sixty-four and Type II Diabetic.
They give me Trazadone, and Glypizide. They both can cause constipation. So, they give me Docusate so I poop. How's that for crazy.

More controversy regarding statins.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news...ol-is-challenged.ece

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
Gents I believe in the power of the mind and spirit more then most of the pills and potions of the medical community.
Two-three fingers of a moderate fine bourbon does a nice job of mellowing one out after a long day.
What works best is hanging out with my 6 year old grand daugther. She's so darned smart, absorbs info and lessons like a sponge.
When was the last time you collected leaves and pressed and dried them for putting them in a note book.

jim

Sounds like grand medicine to me Sir!

.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
More controversy regarding statins.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news...ol-is-challenged.ece

What I am about to say will make it clear that I am no medical specialist.

I have been taking Coumadin daily for a decade now. I m still debating almost daily whether to continue taking it at all. So far I have always decided to continue. It is primarily for folks whose blood vessels have so filled with plaque that a blood thinner is necessary to insure that enough blood circulates rapidly and easily enough not to form clots...clots lead to all kinds of really bad happenings, really quickly.

I also take Simvastatin daily, but am not so sure whether I will continue that. An original claim for that drug was that human statistics show that taking it reduces the chance of a stroke by about 2% per year. And that 2% is not cumulative. That is, it doesn't reduce stroke risk by 2% the first year, another 2% (to 4%) the second year, etc.

But recently the statins' benefit claim to fame seems to be that they reduce inflammation of the blood vessels. Inflammation does lead to greater plaque deposits, scarring, etc. Plaque and scarring do reduce blood flow, so if that's actually correct, it may still be worth taking, starting early on. It may very well delay the onset of the need for Coumadin by years, maybe even many years or forever.

And believe me, you don't want to be on Coumadin until it is a vital necessity. The side effects and blood tests needed to control dosage are too great to endure if you don't HAVE to have it.

Coumadin is still the drug of choice for blood thinning among the really powerful thinners. The other more modern thinners almost universally have no antidotes. so if you start to bleed to death or get a brain hemorrhage, there is basically no way to stop their action. Coumadin does have an antidote which provides a little bit of backup in the case of excessive bleeding.

And Rich, I haven't bothered to apply for the Gold Medal, but I have been an insulin dependent Type 1 diabetic for 56 years...all of it with treatment by the VA. Long ago we reached an understood but not written accommodation that they provide advice, testing materials and meds, but I decide which testing materiel, which meds, how often, and how much.

Everyone should make their decisions as to how to live longest and best, on the advice of their doctors, and with their self as the ultimate bottom-line decision maker. But to make good decisions, they need to research the hell out of the available literature which applies. That way they can come to know enough to be competent to make those decisions.

You cannot leave it up to your doctor alone, any more than you can leave shooting your gun up to the clerk or gunsmith in the local gun shop. Like in shooting, the patient has to observe, think, and practice to stay alive.

I'm 45 and not on a darned thing.

quote:

I have been taking Coumadin daily for a decade now. I m still debating almost daily whether to continue taking it at all. So far I have always decided to continue. It is primarily for folks whose blood vessels have so filled with plaque that a blood thinner is necessary to insure that enough blood circulates rapidly and easily enough not to form clots...clots lead to all kinds of really bad happenings, really quickly.

AC
I've got a buddy who is 85, played racket ball three times a week. Bill's hobby was rebuilding steam engines and old diesel engines.
His Doctor wanted to prescribe coumindin, Bill replied with acclarity "I'm not taking rat poison!"
What got Bill was Alzheimer's .

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
I've got a buddy who is 85, played racket ball three times a week. Bill's hobby was rebuilding steam engines and old diesel engines.
His Doctor wanted to prescribe coumindin, Bill replied with acclarity "I'm not taking rat poison!"
What got Bill was Alzheimer's .

Jim

Some medical literature indicates that reduced blood flow to the brain contributes to Alzheimer's and various other forms of dementia.

(And dementia does NOT mean insanity. It means loss of brain cells to the point that the mind does not function as it did when it had its full complement of cells & mental capacity.)

Who knows? It appers that being born contributes to danged near every human disease.

I just went for a check on my pace maker. A rep from the pacemaker company was there .I asked him [as a metallurgist] how many had adverse reactions to the implant .He said it's very rare.The biggest problem is with stents !!

When the doc says it's a calculated risk, remember it's his calculation and your risk !

Mete, just as a concerned question, what problems were related to stents? I ask because I have (as the doctor quoted) close to a million dollars worth of stents (platinum, niobium and other metals...not entirely sure what the combination was and why!) in my body!

Sorry we didn't get into details.
At that point they were asking why I hadn't shown up for the 2 week exam only this 90 day exam !! Because no one told me to !! They looked a bit embarassed then !

To answer the question: The minimum amounts of those that I decide have been reasonably determined to be necessary to keep me alive at present and in future.

Never abdicate your medical care to a doctor.

Since I am NOT a Physician I don't prescribe for my self. I pay good money to take my Doctors advice. I try to make myself and him as knowledgable about my aches and pains that he can prescribe sensibily and after he prescribes I do as much research as I can on what he has prescribed and report back to him the effects it has,good or bad. I am presently 79 years of age and have been plagued with Arthritis since my Freshman year in Gunsmith school in 1952 causing me to miss the spring quarter. I am a type II diabetic undoubtly inherited from my mother who was diabetic. In coping with the Diabetes I have contracted or progressed to Kidney disease. In addition I have had high blood pressure since a teen. This caused me to fail the draft physical twice and when I was drafted a third time after college (I never applied for an exemption for school) I actually drove to the exam thinking I would be sent home. I had to call my Dad and have him come for my car and close my Apartment and notify my employer I was in the Army. ( the Dr said go lay down on that bench for a while and we will see if it goes down). I had Rhuematic Fever as a child which left me with a heart murmur which has caused no problems. So at the present I take the following medications and have for years - Injectable Insulin twice daily (controlled my diabetes for years with exercise and diet alone which may possibly have led to the Kidney Disease), Tylenol 4 3 times daily, Vytorin daily, Terazosin daily, Allopurinol daily, Amlodipine Besylate daily, Diovan daily, Furosemide daily, Atenolol daily, Vitamin D3 daily, Aspirin 325mg daily. My good cholesterol is extra good and my bad cholesterol is also very good. My Diabetic A1c is between 5 and 6. My blood pressure runs about 140/80 (which for me is good). I also have Lumbar Spinal Stenosis which regularly causes hip and back pain from what I assume are pinched nerves as the Orthapaedic Surgeon says no disk or other spinal problems. I manage with the help of a cane to regularly move around but it has sharply curtailed my hunting to the point of zero. Can't think of a single med I would stop and don't KNOW of any adverse affects any of them cause. I do know with out some of them, like the Tylenol, I can't move around very well. I shall continue to follow my Primary Care Physicians advice as I trust him implicity. I had what ,I think they call, a TIA which caused the Heart Specialist I see to up the aspirin from 80gr to 325gr. When some of us get older things start to function less well. You cope.

Just had a pain management appointment with the VA, and my current count of meds tripled in one day. Sooo....not deliveries yet, not sure of what on earth kinds of meds she was saying so I don't know 75% of what I am receiving but at least she took me seriously. Will keep you all updated. Looks like I'll be stirring a cauldron soon!

Zimbabwe, you're my hero. Keep on truckin'.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
When some of us get older things start to function less well. You cope.

You sir, are why we call ourselves "Americans".
'Sounds like you have an excellent PCP. Thank God for both of you. I second Kensco's comment.