I need some help here guys - let me know what you think.

I shot a beautiful coyote last year and got it to the taxidermist same day. I also sent several detailed pictures of the coyote that I took minutes after the kill so he'd have something to work off of. I never used him before, but had recommendations. After meeting with him and discussing things I got the feeling that he could give me the mount I wanted. He was a big talker, but every time I tried to talk him off his pedestal he climbed back on it. He also kept telling me that he was so busy that he really didn't need more work, but if I was willing to wait it would be worth it. I left a deposit and we exchanged info.

As the months went by I began looking at various forms. The taxidermist and I sent e-mails back and forth - he kept telling me that he prefers this brand form and that this form doesn't come in the size he needs, etc. Quite a while went by and he sent me an e-mail saying that he'd be getting to my mount soon. I didn't send him back an e-mail - I guess I'll accept fault there if there is any.

OK - here's the first kick in the pants. I get an e-mail the other day saying that the mount is almost done and it just has to go onto the base. I NEVER even finalized a mount/pose/form with him, let alone anything else, like the base. He also told me that I'm getting the basic form with this and that and that's what he usually puts it on. He swears I'll be happy with the mount, that he takes great pride in his work, etc., but the pictures he sent me look like he completely botched the job. The pose is unnatural looking, the face looks nothing like the pictures I took and gave him, and the base is not anything I want.

Here's my question - how do I handle this? I am open to the idea that maybe the poor pictures don't do the mount justice, but I have the feeling that I'm going to be completely disappointed after bringing in a once-in-a-lifetime coyote. How can this be reasonably handled? I think I'm ready to tell him to stick the mount and ask for a refund, but I'm a reasonable person open to ideas. Thanks in advance.

Eric, I'm not going to pass judgement on the taxidermist's work that I know nothing about, HOWEVER, I will tell you that you made a cardnal error in ever leaving ANYTHING at a taxidermy shop without a COMPLETE contract written and signed. Any taxidermist who would allow that isn't much in my book and on that matter I will comment.

When I have a customer bring in work, he doesn't leave here without all our "t's" crossed. The mount is one thing and his remark about no one making a form to fit strikes me a little strange. It IS easier to mount a pose that the form fits, but any good taxidermist should be skilled enough to alter a form to meet your desires. And "NO", it should NOT increase the price of the MOUNT. Good taxidermists routinely have to modify and alter forms, that's part of the job. The diorama, however, is a whole nuther ball game. Some taxidermist provide a "simple" base which means the animal is mounted on a plaque, but as soon as you start with molding, dirt, leaves, grass,logs, rocks, etc., you can expect to pay up to 30% of the mount cost for diorama.

Next is the coyote. Canids and cats are the worlds worst for hair "slippage". This is hair that sloughs off with the top layer of epidermis or "slips". These too animals invariably have slippage on their ears, inside legs and especially on the belly if not skinned almost immediately after dispatching. I warn customers about this and my PERSONAL policy is that if it happens, the customer is called and we trash the skin and go about getting a replacement or he accepts is "as is". Individual taxidermists have their own policies on this however, and if he's already altered a form and you decide you don't want a replacement, then you've likely smoked your deposit.

quote:

Originally posted by george roof:
Eric, I'm not going to pass judgement on the taxidermist's work that I know nothing about, HOWEVER, I will tell you that you made a cardnal error in ever leaving ANYTHING at a taxidermy shop without a COMPLETE contract written and signed. Any taxidermist who would allow that isn't much in my book and on that matter I will comment.

When I have a customer bring in work, he doesn't leave here without all our "t's" crossed. The mount is one thing and his remark about no one making a form to fit strikes me a little strange. It IS easier to mount a pose that the form fits, but any good taxidermist should be skilled enough to alter a form to meet your desires. And "NO", it should NOT increase the price of the MOUNT. Good taxidermists routinely have to modify and alter forms, that's part of the job. The diorama, however, is a whole nuther ball game. Some taxidermist provide a "simple" base which means the animal is mounted on a plaque, but as soon as you start with molding, dirt, leaves, grass,logs, rocks, etc., you can expect to pay up to 30% of the mount cost for diorama.

Ditto.
I do that. My lifesize prices include a basic base that might have some dirt on it. A more detailed base is provided when asked for and it costs. People dont realise just how much effort goes into some bases.
The 'whole mount' design is also sorted out before the client walks out the door.

If a skin is sent to me from another state and email or phone is the only communication with the hunter - a contract with all details is sent away and must be returned to me before any work starts.

OK, I had an invoice, but no written contract. Looks like we're both at fault there.

I've got no problem paying extra for a base, but this taxidermist made every decision without any input from me.

Thanks for the input so far. I did everything possible on the fur - washed any blood off with cold snow immediately, kept it cold for the few hours before it got there, then provided many detailed, close-up photos for reference. The pelt is NOT replaceable. Assuming the worst, am I wrong to expect a complete refund of my deposit and he can keep his mess?

I'll throw my 2 cents in here.

First, you should skin a coyote within a half hour of kill, if not sooner. Like Roof said, these things slip hair like crazy. Same goes for a bobcat.

It is your responsibility as the customer to provide every detail to the taxidermist in terms of pose, base, whatever. I encountered one very arrogant taxidermist in Alabama that will only mount a deer how he sees fit. You may tell him you want it left or right posed but that is about as much choice as you get....he decided on manikin, upright, offset, semisneak, etc. Total BS if you ask me.

Unfortunately, you didn't get a preliminary agreement on pose, manikin to be used, etc. Lesson learned for you. It is not the taxidermists place to decide how eye appealing his/her mount is for you. You are the one that has to look at it, so you should have a say so in how it is to be mounted.

If he mounted it up without consulting you first and you both understood and agreed early on that you would discuss the pose at a later date, then that is his failure to finalize the matter with you, and your failure by not responding to his email stating that the coyote was to be mounted soon.

Even if you decide you do not like the mount, I doubt you will get your deposit back. But, maybe that is all he'll charge you.

Maybe you should go to his shop and take multiple photos and post them here.

Here are my 2 pennies.

First, he never should have mounted an animal without having the basic concept of pose. You are at some fault because he did express that he would be getting to your mount soon. He obviously needed your decision on a pose. If he only orders from one supply company then that is where you need to pick the form. You were told that. I really get frustrated with customers who won't return calls or finalize poses (which RARELY occurs).

Second, I never "make" a customer choose the exact pose before he leaves my shop. He may have not thought the pose thru enough before bringing the animal in. I take in the animal, get a sufficeint deposit, and then move on. Many know what they want when they come in, but many more don't.

I would advise you to keep an open mind. Look at the mount and, if acceptable, pay and enjoy. If it isn't acceptable, tell him your concerns. I find that most people who talk a big talk are harder to talk to. Post a picture if you have one.

..

Any chance of you posting the pics he sent you?

I would be curious to see some of the pictures you gave the taxidermist when you brought in the Coyote (or emailed him shortly after) and would also like to see the pictures he sent you of the mount. Just as a side by side. I think that as the paying client you are entitled to have all say in the way the mount is mounted etc, and the fact he failed to communicate what he was going to do etc is rather unprofessional on his part. Now, everyone does things a bit differently, but the majority of taxidermists I have used tend to do things about the same. IF the animals pose is yet to be decided due to damage (turkey come to mind here) they call me and suggest poses etc. But if this guy ddint do any of the aforementioned, I would check out the mount in person, it is totally possible the guys digital camera skills do not lend favor to the mount and IN person it will look pleasing, but if not, I feel your well within your right as the customer to be unhappy based on the way he handled this perticular exchange. Keep us updated on how this turns out and what type of coyote pelt was this, Black coyote? Cinimon phase coyote? Etc?

erict,

I guess I should also have said, if you're not sure how to post pics here, feel free to e-mail them to me and I'll be happy to help out....

I have had a few animals "stuffed" and we have an excellent taxidermist.

The thought of not having the post picked out before you walked out the door is more than disturbing. That's like calling Cabelas and asking for an XL shirt. You don't know what your getting, but you know it will be an XL shirt.

While coyote forms are plentiful, I won't say that there are millions of choices. And if you shot a big coyote or a really small one this will severly limit your options to forms. And yes some companies have better more life like forms.

So you dropped the ball. If your so unhappy with it don't pay for it. Once in a lifetime coyote? What was so special about it?

I really have a hard time accepting that you left an animal with a taxidermist without a contract. Especially with someone you had never used before.

I would call this a good life lesson!

D99 - sorry I'm not as perfect as you. I'm not really interested in getting into a pissing match with you, but there's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism.

For your information, I never contemplated getting a coyote mounted until I shot this one - then the first priority was getting it to a recommended taxidermist on short notice so that I could at least have the pelt handled by a professional as quickly as possible. I made some calls to trusted friends and was given a name. I was there within hours of the kill, inspected several of the shop mounts at his place, discussed what quality of job I was looking for, price, and what to do next. He told me that the important thing was to get it skinned, then I'd have a while to pick out a pose/form. When I say "a while", he made no bones about letting me know we were talking about many months or more. Say what you want, but keep in mind I had the animal in the shop within hours, not like a deer head that gets there days or weeks later, when there's plenty of time to consider a pose.

As far as forms go, there are plenty. I know because I looked. Certainly enough to get some good choices. Not being offered any choice is another matter. Keep in mind that the taxidermist had my name, phone number and e-mail address the entire time. See below pictures to see what was so special - I've heard from many coyote hunters remarking about this animal. I really don't care if you don't think it's special, because it's what I think that matters here.

AS FOR THE REST OF YOU WHO OFFERED INPUT - THANK YOU. Yup, maybe I made some mistakes, but you tell me what you'd think if you were me. The first two pictures are right after the kill, the last three are from the taxidermist. Please keep in mind that the terrible flourescent lighting at the taxidermy shop undoubtedly did bad things to the color, but until I drive 60 miles to see it, I wouldn't be able to tell you more about the color.

That is a tough scenario. Look at the ears on your kill pictures and look how big they are on the mount. It doesn't mean that isn't your pelt, but if your pictures are to sclae then the ears are rough. It isn't my idea of a great mount, but when you go to a taxidermist you are giving your money to an artist. Don't give your money before you have seen examples of the art. Certain tans will fade color out of the hair. You got to make up your mind.

The color of your kill pictures is great. Unique dog there.

The pictures ARE indeed worth a thousand words, especially in this case.

This is a pretty good commercial piece, but has some problems...

First off, what I see in this mount, besides the obvious color discrepancy in the hair, is a poorly executed artificial nose, wrong color, and incorrect eye shape. A bit of grooming certainly would improve the overall look as well.

While every piece leaving our studios can't be a competition piece, this IS the taxidermy forum, and most of us here compete a various levels, so the comments received will probably reflect that.

As far as the rest of this situation, a contract is crucial to a reputable taxidermy business deal, and this is an example of that for all to heed. Your taxidermist should have NEVER mounted this animal without consulting you on the pose, but now that it is completed, you have to decide whether you will honor the deal by paying or leaving it with the taxidermist. That will ultimately be your decision to make, and a situation I do not envy you for being in.

My last comment, after scrutinizing the supplied photos, is this: I am fairly sure that this hide used in this mount IS from the coyote in your pictures. In my opinion, the scar under the left eye is a tell-tale sign that it's the original specimen you brought to the taxidermist, as it shows up in the final mount as well. A replacement hide would not have the same scar in exactly the same place. There also seems to be some hair slippage on the tail, which is not uncommon in coyotes and foxes...

It sounds like it was the colour that prompted you to have it mounted? Wow, it has faded hasnt it?
I dont compete, we dont have comps here, but as a hunter, I wouldnt be over the moon with it.

I am an amateur taxidermist. I agree with the comments above. I only accept work if I have a picture of what my friend wants. I do not like to apply my own artistic touches to something for someone else.

Frankly, what you have is an above average piece of commercial work. It is good and looks acceptable.

What some people forget is that there are many grades and levels of quality in taxidermy work. If you only have one or two pieces in your home, I tell my customers/friends that my work is not competition quality and there are several artists out there that can do the work needed to make it perfect - but that comes with a price. Usually double the normal commercial rate.

Anyway, you did not get hosed, you have a nice mount that looks good.

Bob's got a ton of experience and I think hes pretty spot on as to his critique. The only thing I might add is I think the eye shape is petty close, but I think the crease over the eye is heavy. The nose color could be lighter but its certainly not bad.

The ears are the biggest concern, I think they might be too big and the placement is slightly off.

Now since Ive ruined your day(LOL) I think its above average work and the guy did a nice job on it.

Hugh

I am a long way from a taxidermist, but here is what I see: the lip profile is wrong (the "curl" is missing), the ears are way too big, and as has been noted before, the hide is bleached to the point it doesn't look like any coyote I have ever seen.

It takes artistry to be a taxidermist, and therefore I will never be one. But you don't botch something like this one was, in my estimation, and call yourself a professional.

Wow, the color fade is pretty significant. What would have caused that?

**To all - I am fairly confident that the fur color did not fade, rather that the flourescent lighting in the shop and an improper camera setting made the colors look "bleached" out.

I appreciate the input and welcome more. Will keep you updated after I make the trip down to see in person. Thanks again.

Damn!!!! What a beautiful pelt in those kill pics!!! Is that a one of a kind? I've never ever seen an orange yote before. Very cool.

Like you said, don't know if it is the lighting or what but I will tell you that I do not like the mount. Even the worst of lighting shouldn't make it look that much different should it?

Now, I'm not one to hold anything back or candy coat either.....the ears suck on the mount. I'm not crazy about the eyes either.

If you took kill pics to the taxidermist and that is what he delivered, then, well, you may be better off using another taxidermist in the future.

The very best advice I can give you is this:

If you don't know how to skin your game, learn. It's not too hard. Always skin small game when you are done with field photos. I killed a beautiful red fox in MO one year a long time ago. Prettiest one I'd ever killed. I had it at a taxidermist's in 1.5 hours and it was cool outside. When it came time to mount it, he called me to come take a look at it. The hair was already slipping.

Take LOTS of kill pics and always take them to the taxidermist. Good close ups of the eyes, eye color, ears, nose, lips, profile of face, as well as head on shots.

In response to the "color issues only" the lighting in the studio does appear to be flourescent only. This has a huge impact on the color that shows in the photo's. Hair or fur reflects light differntly than most textures and can be difficult to photograph. This is definately the same coyote. I have done a ton of photography in my own studio and am by no means an expert.I have hired professional photographers as well that have had great difficulty properly photographing my mounts to bring out what my eye see's. On the mount alone, I would call it an average commercial mount. Minor issues in the eye set and nose transition but again this is commercial not competition. Goes back to the contract and communication. Very unusual and good looking skin, wish I have harvested it!

I emailed the photo to a buddy on Colorado. He replied:

"It's a hybrid, look at the tail."

while it may cost a few bucks, from what i'm seeing i believe things can be repaired to get what you're after. it's not an easy job to pull the face apart, but it can be done. I have a lifesize sable that my old taxy screwed up badly, my new one did a great job of remounting. talk to the guy, show him your problems and give him a chance to fix it up the way you'd like it to be.

Don't get particularly warm feelings about this mount, especially the hind leg in mid air strikes me as if he's about to lift it up and pee... and the face... but apart from that:

I never had a contract with a taxidermist; never asked, never have been offered one. That said, I'm usually pretty particular in pointing out what I want. For my latest mount I picked out the manikin I wanted on the internet and took it (photo + contact info of dealer, not the real thing) with me to the shop. But maybe not having something in writing is naive on my part; may have to rethink that strategy.

erict, I'm sorry your trophy didn't come out as planned.

Frans

erict,
I've followed this post from the beginning. Just wanted a complete as possible story before I offered any comments. First, congrats on a great trophy. For a moment I thought you shot Skippy the traveling Dingo (just kidding). We learn from our mistakes. As everyone has told you, the next time you take a trophy to a Taxidermist, get in writing what you want done to your game. If your not sure (and I understand 100% about your indecision in the beginning), put in writing "Will call for mounting instructions within XX days." Follow up after you've had time to consider options and consult the Internet Taxidermy web sites and call on friends. I have no doubt this is your Coy-dog (wild hybred) and a rare color. The light in his shop will cause the faded look. I think your mount will be fine. Pick out a good place for it and enjoy. It's not a museum piece by any means, and I doubt he charged you museum pricing, but it's a decent mount. Have him give the hair a once over with a cool hair dryer to fluff the hair up and it will look more natural. Again, congrats on taking a great trophy and good hunting, LDK

That thing is not pure 'yote....looks like you're getting a nice mount of someone's pet.

MG

dought you have any recourse legally. live and learn. I hope you find a taxidermist that can bring you happiness. Good luck and adios.

Some how I knew this was going to happen when the report of the hunt first was posted! I don't know exacly why, however.

I don't mean to be scornfull of anyone, but I have been a taxidermist for 20yrs and have mounted a few dogs and have trapped a few. In my neck of the woods a red yote is not a one of a kind and definately not a trophy yote of a lifetime. They are interesting for being different from the norm, by their plain coloration, but not rare. Something like a black raccoon, etc....

On the other hand, perhaps the effort in the fuss about the dog, should have been matched firstly by a quest on what to do immediately not to slip the hair. ( I volunteered this information, if my recall is correct.) Followed on what quality of work you wished or was willing to settle with and where to find it. (I posted an example of what was a basic form or mount of a red yote mount I own which could be altered to many positions.)

(A clue on making quick dicisions on which positions a mount should show, can be had by checking Google and posting Coyote and chosing a pose from life! Not a taxidermy form and not another mount.)

The price to have a mount look as fresh and husky as your photos of the kill should have been two to three times the cost of an ordinary commercial mount.

As their is more than one way to skin a cat, their are more than one way to mount a yote. Some of the best mammal mouths are from directly casting the carcass and getting a form from it. ( Museums can afford this kind of work in my area.) Or altering existing forms that are on the market, Or again sculpting from carcass measurements are other ways to proceed.

Next is taxiing the skin on forms so they look lifelike. This comes with experience, an eye to detail and this is always done by using good reference photos. In the rush to get work completed or just out the door, maybe because it hold not special interest to the taxidermist, it is easy to think you had reference photos after the mount is dry, set and ready to paint! and the mount looks like someone you knew in school. I know, I admit to doing this. ( I also learned to fix most of my mistakes.)

Lifelike also comes about by a taxidermist that has studied the game and has disciplined experience and respect for his customers. For example I have never mounted a cougar, and I bet I could do an adequate commecial job of it, however, I have directed my customers to taxidermist who have some experience with these cats.

To get to do a young and healty, red yote to look like a museum piece I personally would have to work at it on my back like Micheal Angelo ( study the project) and mill it in my gray matter like an astronomer and curse that their are no real glass eyes with the coloration I required at the end of it all. (There are none for my yotes! and the manufactures don't reply to my correspance!!! But by damn your friends would envey your mount!

It is a easy mistake to incorrecly set the ears on predators, it is also easy to glue the hide of a New York yote on an Arkansas yote form.

As I have said at the beginning, my gut feeling that this project was headed for trouble was by the fuss. Their is something amiss in being fussy about power and not knowing how pistons fire. Live and learn I guess; More than not fussy is fickle; Know what u what and why and then even commecial mounts have a place of esteem in the trophy room.