Here in Tx elk are concidered exotics. We have a few on the ranch we hunt on but cant find them. Can the be fed in with corn, cow cubes? Any suggestions? Bare in mind there are 20 on 10k acres so we'll try anything to help our odds.

Perry

Hey Perry, nothing personal here (although it is gonna sound that way) but...

If you can't find the 20 elk on 10 acre then do yourself a big favor, and do not try to hunt elk on public land by yourself...

Mark D

I think the "10k" was to represent 10,000 acres. Still, I would rather chase them around for weeks on end (not that I would hunt behind a fence because I would not) that bait them in and blast them. It's called hunting for a reason!!

MG

madgoat -yep I caught that.

Mark D

I don't know what/if they can be baited with. But in the heat of Texas water might become an issue.

I spent quite a few years in Wyoming. The locals had the advantage of time on their side when it came to elk hunting. Snow was often the deciding factor. With heavy snow the elk became predictable, hence accessible and vulnerable. They had to come "down" and there were certain places they would show up. I've seen a herds of a couple hundred elk being chased all over the "flats" by locals. I've seen dozens of locals lined up every 150 yards waiting for them to cross a 60 foot wide public lane. I've seen such a herd's tracks in the snow and several blood trails were included.

So if you are chasing them around 15 square miles of brush country it isn't exactly a slam dunk.

We plant a 25 acre oat field in North Idaho for hay for livestock. The elk seem to flock to that stuff. Its a pain in the but when you are trying to get a good hay crop when 25 elk come in and decide to graze.

Mark,
Did you really think it was 10 acres???? We dont want a big herd and the elk were there when we bought the place so each year we kill a couple of the cows, not really hunting. They are more of a novelty and we want it to stay that way as oppossed to having a herd we actually have to do something with. All I'm looking for is possible baiting options not opinions on ethical hunting.

The fields are a great idea but this year our oat feeds are dirt fields due to the drought. This has never been a problem before and I'd hate for our elk to become a nuisance to the deer hunting.

Place salt/mineral blocks close to a water source and hunt them in late summer or late spring after calving (when salt requirements are highest). You'd be able to shoot both a cow and possibly their young, tender calves at the same time. Bait will work, try a horse mix with oats, molases etc., then pour an 88lb bag of table salt (from restaurant supply store) all over it.

Just giving you ideas, even if that is not very sporting, that is what you asked for.

Perry--nope I understood what you said about the 10K. I did not think it was 10 period.

On a side note my sis lives in SA and I owe her a visit this next year. Perhaps I can come down bring a rifle and be of assistence?

Have you tried cow calling? During any time of the year and or the rut?

Thanks

Mark D

Perry, you are a lucky guy to have 10k acres with you're own heard. What is the weather and terrain like down there? That would really help. But in general, salt licks can attract them as well as shaded vallies, water, and heavy cover. I wish I could come help you. That would be a blast! Good luck!

The terrain is solid brush country. There are spots where you can't even get a horse through. Stalking is a fun way to hunt but it isn't real practical due to the lack of visibility and its just palin dificult to negotiate the brush and stay quiet. I walk around alot but usually wind up in a tree or watching a trail or sendero.
We had the ranch for 2.5 years before we even knew the elk were there. Someone gave us a Camtrakker camera to mount by a feeder and our 2nd role of film revealed 5 elk, we started with 3 apparently. We asked the old man we bought the place from and he then mentioned there are also 3 fallow (now 6), a donkey and an audad. We have finally seen all of them.

We are lucky to have them but they are a far cry from having a wild herd in the mountains someplace. They have no predators down here and we dont hunt them so pursueing them for game would be like going and shooting someones mule. They are wild but just barely. When you shoot them they just stand there and look at you, about what you would expect a beef cow to do if you shot it. However, it is fun for the folks that haven't ever killed one before. Its a big production we all get in on. Their gut plies outweigh our deer and it takes about 6 guys to load it because we aren't really outfitted for 800lb animals. We butcher them out and everyone gets to take some meat home which is a huge treat for all. One guy rattled up a yearling bull one year, he didn't know they were on the ranch, he ran all the way back to the house screaming something about the "spawn of satan" attacking him in the form of an 8 foot tall spike. We were laughing so hard, we never did tell him it was an elk.
The 2 older bulls are huge. The 4.5 year old is 8x7 and everyone that has seen him says he would score in the high 390s but he will die of old age before we let anyone take him. I may stalk him with my bow when he gets older but I wouldn't shoot him any other way. It is usally in the mid 90s-100 degrees here in late September when they are rutting and we are hunting doves so we dont even think about deer hunting. Like I said earlier they are a novelty. If we want to really hunt elk we'll book a hunt in NM, CO or Arizona and hunt them right.

Salt licks and cubes I think will be tried this week. I also am going to try alfalfa hay bales, I've heard they like alfalfa.
Thanks for all you guys input, it has given us a good starting place. I'll let you know how the tricks work.

Perry

Do you have any gullies, canyons, or rock shelves that offer a vantage from above, and cool shade areas below? Especially with water close by?

Brush is going to be tough to hunt them in. They are not as visible as many would believe. There's a reason they are referred to as the ghosts of the forrest. Nate

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dobrenski:

If you can't find the 20 elk on 10 acre then do yourself a big favor, and do not try to hunt elk on public land by yourself...

Mark D

(grinning from ear to ear), Ok Mark, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking! Thanks for the laugh!!!

Big Nate,
It is 10,000 FLAT acres. One creek runs/trickles well it actually pools through it. The creek is dense oak trees and thick understory brush/tree mixture. I think another problem with finding them is they are moving quite abit because food is really scarse right now. Which may seem like an advantage but by the time we cover one area and move to another the elk have moved or maybe moved back into an area we have already looked. There actually may be more sport to this herd than I want to admit.

Doc,
It is 10,000 acres not 10 acres as Mark misread. If I couldn't find 20 elk in 10 acres I certainly wouldn't admit it or at least make up a good excuse.

Perry

Perry, you're not going to like what I have to say but I'm going to say it anyway... how do you take pride in shooting an animal over bait or a mineral lick? Seriously. Why don't you hone your tracking skills and go kill a bull on its terms... that's something to take pride in. 10,000 acres is big, but not that big... most of us hunt elk on MUCH bigger terrain.

I suppose, no one here has never hunted Bear over bait come on guys enough of the bull shit. The guy stated they aren't really wild anymore. Some folks here need to go re-read his post. Maybe you guys should read it several more times then it might click in your heads.

John

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
This has never been a problem before and I'd hate for our elk to become a nuisance to the deer hunting.

Whoa!! You don't want elk to get in the way of your deer?? I'm sorry, but look at the situation. It is only one guy's opinion, but you cannot even locate the elk. Now how is it that the deer could possibly make better hunting than that? Just my opinion, but I would personally try to cultivate the elk alongside the measly deer population--you will be in for much better hunting experiences. Elk can be destructive, but you are in a situation to control their numbers. Certainly, elk are a more noble animal. Once brought to numbers where they can be hunted regularily, they will make a far more formidable prey. They are considerably more intelligent and more powerful than deer.

Of course, I would not exchange that for hunting them in their terrain, but as long as they are there, what the hell. Also, I'm not trying to judge your situation harshly, I understand the need to keep populations in check. I would simply take another look at priorities. Maybe I'm biased living in elk country... I for one am not actually that interested in chasing your elk around.

I guess as a parting thought: if they are so slim in number that you cannot even locate them, why worry about their population?

Added:
It is the nature of hunting such a herd animal that when you are in elk, you can pound them. It is always locating them that is difficult. That is the hunt for elk. This might sound obvious, but it is quite different from deer. Good luck, and welcome to the many fruitless days of elk hunting. Enjoy them!

You obviously are not feeding protein or you would be able to find you Elk anytime you wanted to!

They should be easier to find now through mid March, when there is nothing to eat. They should flock to alfalfa.

Try the Alfalfa. My Red Deer love it, and they are cousins.

Brad and Mikea,
I suppose I feel the way about hunting whitetail that you feel about hunting elk and that is ONE reason we dont want a huge elk herd. I dont "take pride" in shooting these elk over bait, its just how we have done it. I will say this though, all this talk about them being a formidable chase and their elusiveness has me extremely interested in hunting them on their terms. I have never "tracked" anything in its purest sense of the word and dont even know what my tracking skills are but I'm going to give it a try next weekend.

Brad, you speak as though you have tracking skills. We have deer, javelina and hogs that all water and feed in the same places. Is it even possible to find a track and stay with it with so many other tracks on top of each other?

I'll admit I'm not experienced in Texas hunting at all. The Elk are far from a native animal of that area, and from the habits I've seen in them, they've got to be miserable! They don't seem to like the heat. I'd hunt the darkest, coolest area you can find, provided there is something to eat within walking distance. We have Tule elk in this area and it gets hot here to but you find the elk laying in the shade on the dark side of the canyons, and walking to water.

If it's that brushy there's little there for them to eat. With little or no water you have little if any grass. What are they eating?

I've hunted elk in Oregon and Idaho but I'd feel out of place chasing elk on flat ground in 100* heat! If you're just wanting to get rid of them to go back to "native" animals, auction off hunts, throw so alfalfa out along the creek, and put up one of those houses on stilts looking over that area. You may get enough money from the "hunts" to fund a windmill/ well/ water tower so you could do a little irrigation. Then take out some brush. Thats enough land to have fun on I'd think. Nate

I should also say that we are in South Texas; very dense, thick brush that at best if not in a cleared area, visiablity is 10-35 yards, maybe.

Big Nate,
You hit the nail on the head in the 100* heat. For one thing when its that hot you have to really watch for rattlesnakes, especially in cool shaded areas. Secondly the time you spend chasing elk you miss out on some great wing shooting with the doves. And lastly its just plain hot and still. Hunting elk and deer you are not supossed to be in Africa heat, at least not in my mind even if that isn't always reality.
And dont get me wrong about the elk being there, we like them just not in a large number. Thanks for your input.

Perry-I feel ya about the lack of visability deal. I grew up in Northern Minne and started hunting w tails in the dark,thick ugly stuff. I also grew up hunting them via tracking and ghosting along like a predator. I was fortunate to learn from my Dad, Uncles and G Dads at this skill.

I've also guided in Sonora (Old Mex) for coues,desert muley and Sheep. The dessert muley was hunted in very close, mostly on foot and in thick ugly stuff as well.

I know this it can be done if the will is there, is it as effective to take animals this way as other, nope. But can it be done you bet.

In a serious way I should/could be coming down to SA this next year and I would love to meet ya and spend a day out at this place. I am sure I could learn a thing or two about the Texas hunt.

I could carry a rifle if you like and or I could just carry a paint ball gun or bow with rubber blunts.

Either way it would be fun to see, hunt your country. And if need be perhaps take one or two of those elk off the place in an effort to help out the cause.

If not no biggie, and I hope you get this thing sorted out.

Mark D

3223/John--a couple of quick thoughts.

Bruins over bait, nope not done it.

Baiting for bruins is a whole nother subject for sure. But my take is it would be fun for photo ops. But I've no, none, notta interest in climbing into a stand and shooting a bruin whilst he is at the breakfast table.

The fun for me of the baiting game would be in placing the stands and grunting the bait into the area. I personally would recieve no gratification from going on a hunt over bait that someone else had done the work on. And or if I actually shot something that had come to my bait. Photos yeah, guns no, at least for me.

But that is just me and I am not judging you one way or another.

And lastly if they (back to the elk in TX) are not wild anymo, then I can't imagine it would be overly tough to take them out.

Either by hunting them on foot on the ground or by sanctioning them over bait.

Just my .07 cents on the subject.

Make it your best day

Mark D

Sounds like to need to wear off some boot leather Perry. Since you have a creek that runs/trickles/pools/whatever through your property, The elk surely visit it every now and then. I would say start at the very top of the creek on your property and walk the entire lenght of it. Elk are not ninjas, you'll see where they've been via tracks or elk duds. And the bonus is you may learn something about the deer herd in the process.

What's the neighboring land like? Is it more appealing to an elk? Maybe they carry your 20 elk most of the year and the elk only visit your property evry now and then for whatever reason.

Build some remote water tanks where you think they might be. They are not to hard to build or maintain if you have a 4-wheeler.

Just my thoughts.

Jason your reading my mind. The creek will be my starting point. What does elk poop look like; size, pellets/patty, one pile or dropped as they move? Are elk grazers (grass eaters) or are they browsers like deer (brush,forbes)?

Mark, they are not tame, they run when they see you. Even a stalk is not a slam dunk.

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
...We have deer, javelina and hogs that all water and feed in the same places. Is it even possible to find a track and stay with it with so many other tracks on top of each other?

If terrain allows it, short answer, IMHO, yes- but you have to circle around to isolate the elk tracks from the others, eventually, they should branch off. If not, keep following until they do or at least one of them does. It may even be possible to isolate a particular elk track from other elk tracks (by looking at a variety of variables (size, fingerprinting distinguishable features, depth, age, visual sighting of animal in tracks etc... and making educated guesses). Tracking to kill and tracking to scout or trail wounded game require slightly different approaches but all require patience and an open mind. This is the short answer.

I suggest that by attempting to track them, you will learn a lot about the elk and your competencies (learn from your mistakes). Ideally, you want to pair up with someone like Brad, who knows what they are doing from the beginning.

Cheers,
CL

Perry, its obvious to me that a bunch of these guys have never even seen any good pictures of the S. Texas brush, much less set foot in it. Put out the alfalfa like Wendell said.

Elk duds look just like it sounds, like large milk duds. Maybe an 1 inch to 1.5 inchs in diameter depending on size of the critter.

Elk are historically grazers, but in your area they could have brouser tendencies. If you don't have pasture for them to feed on, they have to eat something. This is what I was referring to when I mentioned the neighboring properties.

Perry,

What part of South Texas are you hunting? I used to be on a place by Del Rio and we had the occasional elk and quite a few aoudads, but that terrain is a little better suited for them. If you're in the true South Texas brush country, I can definately see your problem

Perry, I figured it was a typo but couldn't resist. No harm intended.

Lhook7,
We are southwest of San Antonio about 1.5hrs. Its not really by anything, we are between Pearsall, Charlotte and Cotulla. The vegatation is mainly thickets of mesquite, black brush, prickly pear cactus and white brush. Its a big bucks dream place, with the exception of our bullets and arrows.

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Lhook7,
We are southwest of San Antonio about 1.5hrs. Its not really by anything, we are between Pearsall, Charlotte and Cotulla. The vegatation is mainly thickets of mesquite, black brush, prickly pear cactus and white brush. Its a big bucks dream place, with the exception of our bullets and arrows.

That is great deer country.

Elk Bait?????????????????????????

Perry!

I get the impression that you don't realize what a lucky man you are. To have your own elk herd that you can hunt any time you want for almost no expense in some very very challenging habitat is a elk hunters dream come true. Take advatage of it and hunt them on their terms not by baiting. You will get more reward for your time spent then shooting a deer or two over a deer feeder.

I bet some of the local hunters would even pay pretty good dollars to hunt them fair chase for you.

4654H&H

I agree with 465H&H, I would rather chase elk around then whitetail any day! Get rid of all that other worthless exotic shit and keep the wapiti!!

Just my opinion of course....

MG

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Big Nate,
Secondly the time you spend chasing elk you miss out on some great wing shooting with the doves.

That's a joke right? I really do hope so. Why in the heck would anyone even be interested in wing shooting when you can hunt elk when you want for free basically. wingshooting.

You dont know what I would give just to be able to go out on my property and hunt elk and them be considered exotics.
If would love to chase them around for you.

I would get a chopper and find out how many are on the ranch. My guess it that there are fewer than you think. At that time you could locate the herd and get a better idea of what their range is. If there were more than you want on the place you could easly shoot them from the chopper.