I need to get a GPS but after a quick look in the Cabellas catalog I really didn't learn much.
What I need is the ability to find my way back to camp, to be able to check a map coordinate and the ability to note a site for easy return, such as a kill site or stand.

Thanks in advance,

FN in MT

Frank,

Get a Garmin Etrek. They are the best at the moment. Walmart has them for about $115. I would choose the yellow one and not the cammo model so you can find it when you need it.

I have had a Garmin GPS 12, a popular but larger model, for 7 years and I set it on a stand I picked out that I would go into in the dark opening day. What went wrong was that it was snowing and with that clutter and the snow on the branches it would not get a signal.

A compass is still necessary as most of them don't tell direction unless you are moving. That said they and the older Loran are invaluable the harder navigation gets. Thus on the water they are very valuable.

Just buy it and learn to use it around the house.

Since nobody has chimmed in yet I will add that there are sites with info that will make your head spin. Just buy one and try it out. You turn it on and in a moment it will pull in the satelites and you push the "mark" button and it notes where you are just as if that is where you parked your car or the camp is. You might turn it on hours later and it will give the heading in magnetic or true degrees and the distance to that mark. All you do is follow your compass on that heading. Of course you can leave it on and watch the screen as you walk along. They also work in vehicles and even in aircraft held against the window as well as the afformentioned boating application.

[ 11-22-2002, 06:43: Message edited by: Don Martin29 ]

Get a Garmin 12. You can't go wrong for the price. It's also easily interfaced with your PC and there's even free software out there to download and upload waypints, and also moving map software. Walmart, I think $139 !!! Been using one of these for 3 years.

bowhuntr

[ 11-22-2002, 09:00: Message edited by: bowhuntrrl ]

Gentlemen,

I personally use a Magellan 315, and I am very happy with it. In addition to my safari and farming duties, I'm also a professional forest engineer, and the 315 works better under the forest canopy than any other "non-professional" grade model I have tried. I payed $139 for mine at Bi-Mart, and it has worked great..!!

If you have a Barnes & Noble or Borders around you, look for the GPS book by The Mountaineers, out of Seattle. I can't rememeber the exact title, but it's a great book. Surf the web as well, as there are many excellent GPS websites out there.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

I use the Etrex and it works great. Simple but powerful tool.

As for learning how to use it, there is a bizarre little sport out there called "geocaching". Basically, people go out and set a coffe can, canvas bag, etc. full of little knickknacks in a secluded place in the woods. They post the location on the internet, and then you take your GPS and go find it, trading a knickknack of your own for one in the container. People leave little notes, etc. It's some people's way of getting out and having a little fun in the woods. Sounds like a great way to get out and get some real world experience if your a Newbie to GPS.

Thanks for the great replies. I'll probably go with one of the Garmin's.
I've been exploring some new country lately , a lot of it very rough. All the coulees and canyons look pretty much alike. I can always find my way out, its EASILY finding a specific spot thats the problem.

Don,

I agree on the camo craze. I end up sticking a piece of flaming yellow or orange 440 cord on most of the small stuff so as not to lose it. And use bright tape on my rangefinder . Had a friend lose an absolutely brand new Leica 800 rangefinder when he layed it down in the thick of the elk battle. Took two weeks to find it as it snowed that first week of the season. The rangefinder seems to be OK after two weeks in the snow.

FN in MT

[ 11-22-2002, 19:19: Message edited by: Frank Nowakowski ]

Frank: My first was an original Garmin that was a POS and was sent back for refund, and I had an older Magellan that was a POS. I used my bro-in-laws Mag 315, and I was not overly impressed with it either although it was definitely better. I took my old Magellan and the 315 into the deep woods in Wyoming in 2000. The 315 was a bit faster, but neither was consistent which is a problem when you can change elevation by 500 feet in 50 yds. I will buy another, but like you I want one that works.

There's very little, if any, difference in the performance of the current crop of consumer GPS units -- all are very good. In deciding which to buy you'll of course want to factor in price. Extra features like comupter-downloadable, database updateable, km/cc of fuel burned calculator, and auto ass-wiping are great if you actually have use for them. Only buy the features you'll actually use and you'll save money and have a less complicated machine to learn to master.

I've found that a conventional compass is an excellent instrument to help get you lost. You have to account for varying declination, and in most mountainous areas, magnetic deposits can wreck havoc on where the needle actually points. With a GPS, if you can find a clear place to walk in a straight line for 15 steps or so, you'll get an exact bearing.

The only physical feature I would watch out for would be those machines which have the operating buttons located above the screen. When you push the buttons, your hand obscures the view of the screen, which is very unhandy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stonecreek:
[QB]
The only physical feature I would watch out for would be those machines which have the operating buttons located above the screen. When you push the buttons, your hand obscures the view of the screen, which is very unhandy.
--------------------------------------------------
I don't agree with the above statement at all. I operate my GPS 12 with my thumb and then take my thumb away and all of the screen is visable. If it were the opposite the instrument would fall out of my hand! The GPS 12 is the biggest selling GPS of them all! But I am not worked up over it. If I were to buy one for hunting it would be the regular etrek.

The GPS 12 is a little big in the pocket. You can carry only so much and most of the time I leave it in the car. Also it has hundreds of valuable marine waypoints in it and I really don't want to lose it. My friend lost his Magellan when it fell out of his pocket. Before that loss we compared our Gps's and they aquired a fix at the same time.

On the marine forums the Garmin brand is by far the most popular. The Coast Guard uses Leica's.

I recently purchased a Garmin ETrex Venture model and am very pleased with it. This model comes with the cable to allow interfacing with my computer and my All Topo software.

The ETrex is very compact and quite easy to learn. And this comes from a guy who is not particularly gadget savvy!

I use mine to relocate downed game. Walk up a half dozen rabbits, shoot 'em, gut 'em, drop 'em, and log a waypoint. When you have your limit, use the "Backtrack" feature and retrieve your dinner. A great exercise that will soon have you using your GPS without having to think about it much.

Just returned from elk hunting and logged numerous waypoints for various deer and antelope observed. This includes specific animal sightings, bedding areas, observed trail usage, etc. I am now plugging those waypoints into my map database for future reference and pre-season scouting.

I was dragged into the techno-world kicking and screaming, but I am finding it less painful than I had imagined!

Good luck.

~Holmes

When I got my GPS I wanted a unit that didn't have all the bells and whistles. I looked at the Yellow etrex and the camo. At that time the camo unit had a hunting and fishing page with a sun and moon page. While I wasn't too impressed with the hunt and fish page the moon page is great.
Like I said the camo unit had more things what I thought I needed. I have never lost it of left it because of the color.
I use mine a LOT. I use it to mark areas for chukar hunting and deer hunting. You can also "project" waypoints. Basically what this means is you can stand in one place and "shoot " a waypoint to another spot like this.
This year I found a good buck in a area that is real rolling and hard to keep your bearings in. I found the buck and "projected" a waypoint to the deer. I was able to come in from the downwind side by using the GPS. When I am chukar hunting and I hear chukar on the other side of a canyon I project a waypoint to the other side. Then I can drive the long way around to the other side for the next hunt.
After I have had this one for a year I have to say the etrex venture is probably the better deal. Mine cost 130 with nothing else. The Garmin computer cable is 38.00 the venture comes with the cable for 170 and has a lot more softwear.
I would recomend the venture. I would also say the game Geocaching will help you understand your GPS and get better with it. Here is a good page http://opentopic.groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic
Ps this is the deer that the GPS helped me get.
Ron

My only contribution is to say -

When using my GPS and a map to pin point my location I have found if much more beneficial to use UTM grids than Lat & Longitude.

Just my .02

Keep the good information coming!

Idaho Ron,

GREAT muley but small bodied! Kinda Skinny!
Thanks for the link too.

FN in MT

Frank
I use the etrak and it works well. Most of the time you will not use the fancy stuff so a basic model is all most people need. If you want to see how one works, the next time you come to Butte give me a call and we can meet for a cup of coffee and I will give you dimes worth of info on how the etrax works. By the way the 300 H&H dies you sold me are working great. Took a while to find a load the gun liked but I finally got it shooting pretty good.
Russ

I have the Garmin GPS Map 12. I have a couple complaints with this model for what I use it for.
1. It is bigger than most models. I use it for hunting and backpacking, both of which would favor a smaller model.
2. It has one power button on front where it can be easily pushed by anything in your pack. I can't count all the times I've been hiking along only to hear the low battery alarm in my pack. I can't find a hard case big enough to remedy this and because it takes for AAs instead of two, I have to carry twice as many batteries just to be safe.
3. It has no electronic compass. I have to get my bearings in order to use it, which sort of defeats the purpose. It won't tell me which direction I am facing unless I am moving.
4. I paid over $300 for the thing, a fair amount of dough to me.

I feel this model is more apt suited to attachment on the dash board of your car, boat, or ATV rather than a pocket pouch in the middle of nowhere.

I am planning on selling mine for an Etrex Summit which seems to have more of the features I am looking for. Like you I was a 1st time GPS buyer and didn't know what to look for. I think now I know a tad bit more, having made a costly mistake in picking the wrong model for my needs.
1. Make sure it has a fair amount of way points.
2. It should have an electronic compass unless you are likely to be moving every time you want to know which direction to go.
3. It should also have a fair amount of routes that can be saved.
4. And it should have some sort computer linkage available for support by mapping Software.

You will also want to pay attention to placement of controls and the other little gizmos that are unique in preference to each individual, just like picking a gun.

I also have a Etrex but mine is the Summit. It has an electronic compass that doesn't require me to move to give a bearing. Very desirable. I paid US190.00 through E-Bay and got a US50.00 rebate from Garmin.

In the far north the satelites are very low on the horizon and the Garmin seems to pick them up better and faster than the Magellan I used to have.

It is also small enough to fit in a shirt pocket. Not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes.

Frank,

I have the Garmin 12 and for the little I have used it, it has been very good. If I were buying again I think I would go for the smaller Etrax unit. I agree with Stonecreek about the ergonomics of the Garmin 12; not a big point, but something that does bug me from time to time.

The best thing about buying and learning to use your GPS is that it really does brush you up on your map reading! Sounds silly but its true. I would never use a GPS as a standalone device but just as a compliment to my map and compass.

One last point. Unless you are a boater, go with the UTM function rather than Lat & Long; UTM is far, far easier to use in the field....

regards,

Peter

"When using my GPS and a map to pin point my location I have found if much more beneficial to use UTM grids than Lat & Longitude"
I agree as well elkslayer.

Frank, yep he is a skinny one
Here is another link. This one will allow you to compare Garmin products. Another thing I would look at is A maping program for your computer. I have National Geographic look here.
http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/topo/cdroms.cfm
When you use these maps you can point to any spot on the map and it will give you the location in coordinates. You can enter locations into your GPS before you even go outside. This comes in handy. The maps are many different levels including 7.5 minute with 3D shadding. They are actual USGS maps on a seamless format.
You can take a hunt save the track then download the track to the computer and it will show you where you went, and elevation profile. You can also create a rout with the map and load it on the GPS to guide you to a location you have never been before. You can also link the GPS to a laptop or a PDA and get real time tracking of where you are going, and where you have been. I wanted a GPS with mapping software but decided to keep it simple and put the mapping on the computer so I could print maps. This program will also help you manage your waypoints.
FARRIGHT, You wrote
"I am planning on selling mine for an Etrex Summit which seems to have more of the features I am looking for. Like you I was a 1st time GPS buyer and didn't know what to look for. I think now I know a tad bit more, having made a costly mistake in picking the wrong model for my needs.
1. Make sure it has a fair amount of way points.
2. It should have an electronic compass unless you are likely to be moving every time you want to know which direction to go.
3. It should also have a fair amount of routes that can be saved.
4. And it should have some sort computer linkage available for support by mapping Software"

I am wondering what the features were on the Summit that you liked the most? When I looked at them the I thought I would like the Barometric Altimeter. BUt a friend of mine has a Vista. His altimeter has to be recalibrated evey time he changes batteries. Also it is not all that far off what my altimeter says. Another thing the summit has I thought I would like was the "elevation profile"
After thinking about it the National Geographic software has this. All I have to do is download the track to the computer and I can see it there without having the summit.
SOme of the reasons I didn't like the summit were it didn't have a Celestial Information Page.
I also didn't like the price. It was 100 dollars more. It does have the ability to have more routes,this would be nice. It does have more Tracklog Points. But I have never ran out with mine.
It does have a electronic compass but I just don't need it. I carry a 20.00 dollar silva compass that doesn't use batteries. Take a look at this comparison. http://www.garmin.com/products/comparison.jsp
Right now Garmin has a 50.00 rebate on the summit, legend, and the vista. I would probably pick the legend if I were to upgrade. But I like how simple the Basic model is or the camo unit.
My brother-in-law has the venture And I REALLY like it a lot.
Ron

My first GPS was a Magellan 2000xl and it sucked. I later got a 3000xl and it sucked equally well. My girlfriend bought me a Garmin 12 and I've loved it ever since. My dad has a Magellen 315 that works pretty well, but it doesn't have as many features as the 12 and isn't as reliable as it either. We've worked our two units side by side and mine always seem to be edging his out a bit. I also couple mine with Terrain Navigator software and download points that I would like to check out next. It works excellent for downloading your paths that you made that day and gives you a great perspective on where exactly you'd actually been.
With all that said, I will soon be retiring it for the new Garmen Rhino 120. This is without a doubt the best GPS on the market. My brother just bought two of them, and they are awesome. You can pick them up online for $215.00. They have full mapping capabilities as well as 2 way radios built in that transmit your position to your buddy and vice versa. Not only do you know where your hunting partner is, but you know where he's been as soon as he keys in to talk to you. In addition, all your info is sent to him. You can find a stream or spring on you map, say goto, and send the info to your buddy. You both end up at the same location while keeping in touch with one another. Not to mention, if along the trip to the final destination, your buddy finds something interesting that's worth marking, he can mark it on his GPS, and you can go to that same location that he marked without ever meeting up with him.
If I were you, I wouldn't waste my money on any other unit than the Rhino 120. I've been waiting for years for them to come out with this kind of technology. It is truely worth waiting for, and helluva value when you add up all the features.

Is the WAAS feature worth the extra bucks?

Wildbill, Right now the WAAS is not working in most areas. If you were on a ocean Maybe. The people at the geocaching site turn their's off. I was also told by my brother-in-law that the venture he got should have the WAAS turned off because it does not work in Idaho.
What happens is you have the ability to hook up to 12 satalites. If you have waas turned on then you can only get 10. If you are in a poor area you might get less. This all reduces your accuracy. By turning off the WAAS birds you have a better chance at getting two more birds that work. Ron

An important point however reguarding the Rhinos, you may want to consult the hunting regulations in your area concerning the use of two-way radios while hunting. I know that in Montana it is not illegal to carry radios but it is illegal to use them for anything other than an emergency--they can not be used to hunt, persue, and trap game.

O and as with the Summit it basically has everything I need that the Map 12 doesn't. The electronic compass and small size mainly. It also has the ability, as I understand, to shoot a waypoint across a hill, ect so if I shoot something on an opposing hillside I can mark it and find the body without too much difficulty.

[ 11-25-2002, 07:14: Message edited by: FarRight ]

It all depends on how old you are. If your yo ung

It all depends on how old you are. If your young, and your eyes are good, most of the garmans are ok, just figure out what features you want. The only bad thing about them are the small screens on them.I'm not really that old yet, but even with glasses on i have a very hard time makein out whats what on them.

Some WAAS info.

How accurate is GPS, really? A typical civilian GPS receiver provides 10 to 60 feet accuracy with selective availability off and 60 to 225 feet accuracy with selective availability on. The accuracy of your GPS unit also depends on the number of satellites available, and the geometry of those satellites. I'm getting about 10 to 15 feet average position error on my Garmin III+.

WASS. There is a new upgrade to the GPS system we have used in the past called WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System). The Garmin eTrex Legend, GPSmap 76 and Vista are currently the only civilian GPS models that are capable of using WAAS. The only drawback to using WAAS right now is that your geographic location and the terrain you're in will affect how well it works. From a review by Joe Mehaffey and Jack Yeazel, "There are only 2 WAAS satellites as of July 2001, one of these is low on the SE horizon from the Eastern USA and the other low on the SW horizon in the western USA. If you cannot see at least ONE of these WAAS satellites, WAAS will not operate."

WHAT IS WAAS? The basic GPS service fails to meet the accuracy (the difference between the measured position at any given time to the actual or true position), availability (the ability of a system to be used for navigation whenever it is needed by the users, and its ability to provide that service throughout an air flight operation), and integrity (the ability of a system to provide timely warnings to users or to shut itself down when it should not be used for navigation) requirements critical to safety of flight. In order to meet these requirements the FAA is developing the Wide Area Augmentation System or WAAS. WAAS is a safety-critical navigation system that will provide a quality of positioning information never before available to the aviation community. It is what the name implies, a geographically expansive augmentation to the basic GPS service. The WAAS improves the accuracy, integrity, and availability of the basic GPS signals. This system will allow GPS to be used as a primary means of navigation for enroute travel and non-precision approaches in the U.S., as well as for Category I approaches to selected airports throughout the nation. The wide area of coverage for this system includes the entire United States and some outlying areas such as Canada and Mexico.

The WAAS is based on a network of approximately 35 ground reference stations that covers a very large service area. Signals from GPS satellites are received by wide area ground reference stations (WRSs). Each of these precisely surveyed reference stations receive GPS signals and determine if any errors exist. The WAAS will improve basic GPS accuracy to approximately 7 meters vertically and horizontally.

Do-it-Yourself Accuracy Test from Sam Wormley

Measure the accuracy of your GPS receiver by following these four steps. A set of measurements is worth a thousand expert opinions! Forget about EPEs! Trust your own plot.

1. Find any convenient unobstructed place.
2. Record the UTM coordinates for that place. Don't throw away any data points!
3. Make a graphic plot of Eastings and Northings (pencil and paper works really well for this).
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 (at different time of day and night) for at least a week.

WAAS info links,

http://joe.mehaffey.com/waaslaas.htm

http://www.gpsinformation.net/exe/waas.html

http://www.avweb.com/articles/satnav.html

http://waas.stanford.edu/~wwu/rfuller/iongps98/sld001.htm

http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/slup/CuttingEdge/Mar00/navigation.html

So excuse my ignorance but can a WAAS activated unit still receive signals from normal GPS satellites?

Ditto on the eTrex -- I've used mine two seasons now and love it.

All I do with it normally is turn it on when we park the truck, mark the truck as a waypoint, then turn it off -- leaving it on all day in cold weather eats batteries.

My key suggestion is to use it as an emergency supplement to compass bearings -- and be flexible. If you try to follow it in a straight line I guarantee that line will go through the worst swamp in the area.

My only complaint is that if they have a hunting model it ought to have hunting-specific waypoint symbols -- if I were in a place with restrooms I wouldn't need a GPS!

John

I have one of the early Etrex models and even though I'm technologically challenged, I haven't had any problems with my unit. When I'm in the bush, I've yet to have problems picking up the satellites, even in the thick stuff. I have to be moving for the compass feature to work on mine but the newer Etrex models will work while you're stationary.

Wouldn't be without one.

Joe

try www.geocaching.com for the site for using your GPS for an informal type of treasure hunt - old ammo cans work well for the container, this is a fun way to learn the use of your GPS and using one is the best way to learn, not from the owners manual or the video sometimes included with your unit - I bought the eTrex and it works great, carry some extra batteries if you use in the cold weather - KMule

UPDATE.......... I ended up with an ETREX Legend. I have only played with it for a few days but it seems to do everything I require.Software on the way for my area to add more data to its memory. that should do it.

Thanks a lot for all the information, I really appreciate it.

FN in MT

I also have a website with info and reviews on GPS units at

http://www.jesseshuntingpage.com/gps.html

Helpful GPS forum

http://www.jesseshuntingpage.com/forums/index.php?s=612d1f449defb01ca3b9d63995bfe792&act=SF&f=39

spectr17 really knows his stuff. His posts are very informative. Good job.
Fopr anyone else intrested in GPS here is a little more infor

I sold GPS since handhelds were $1000 buck and held very few points. (I worked insporting goods for 8 years and now I manage a marine facility which sells alot of GPS in the boat store)

You have to ask your self some questions. When buying a GPS the first thing is how much? Sounds silly but the more you spend the more screen infomation you will have. Some of the more expensive units have faster processers, which allows the screen to be redrawn faster. A $115 dollar unit will be as accurate as a $500 unit. But what you get is more information and more memory. The more expensive units will have in better built base maps. It will show you some highways, water bodies, etc. Other will show you just cities. Most of the better units will allow you to down load specific maps for your needs. Topographical, waterway and lights, city streets, etc.

The next question is size. I like the bigger screen size units to see, but of course they are not as easy to carry. This does relate to where the buttons are. Smaller units have them on the sides (some people think they are harder to use and some say easier. I think they are harder because I can not see which button I push)

The next question is what you want the GPS for and how much technology you want. What I mean here is if you like alot of technology on VCR, TV, scopes, etc then you will want a better unit.

Some of the low end units will only show a flag as a way point. On better units it will show you a choice on icons to use as the waypoint. Lower end units will only have one or a few routes (many waypoint put into a line and saved) The better one will have more. The better units will hold track on memory (tracks are where you have been) Some units are downloadable to PC computer to save tracks, route and waypoints. This can help with records, scouting, using infor in an area once a year (so you can erase the point from the unit and still have record)

As for what you want to get back to the truck or find the deer or elk a low end unit will do that just fine. The better units will show you where things are in relation to roads, water, etc. You can tell where an animal is going if trailing to it.

As for Garmin ve Magellan vs othe brands. This is up to the user. I carry all brands. The Garmin do out sell the others. I think it has to do with the user friendly ness. I currently just got a deal with the Magellan Meridian and it seems very cool.

If you have any questions or want to purchase one give me an email at work at yana@netnet.net or go to our website at http://www.everythingforboats.com/ and then you can check on some links to manufacturers.

I personaly like the 12 over the basic etrex. The main reason is that it holds more routes (20)in the unit then the basic Etrex only holds one.

As for WAAS it is capable to be picked up in limited areas. I can get it alot of time

Now the big question is which one I like. It is the MAP 76 by Garmin easy to use and has mapping on the unit. It is downloadable to a computer and can accept upgraded maps.

Just my long two cents

Hcliff

HCliff,

I am not going to bother with a GPS with marine charts. The reason is that I don't trust electronics when the goin gets rough. It also costs a fortune to have all of the charts and many handhelds don't show the rocks! Update me on this vs/ve the 76.

I maintain that paper charts and ded reconing are the sure way with electronics of course to make it easier. That's why I suggested carrying a compass too.