I've seen so many of them I have learned a few secrets about their behavior.

They really have an attraction to gin, fifths over pints by far. I'd go so far as to say it is unlikely you will ever see one without a quanity of gin in or on you.

I know this to be true because since I stopped drinking, I have seen narey a one.

In the early 1980's, my father saw a dark colored mountain lion cross the road in front of his car near Brookshire, TX (about 30 miles west of Houston). I asked him if he told his buddies out there about it. He said no, no one would believe it.

I got a good look at a jaguarundi on a ranch I was hunting in Duval County in South Texas about 8 or 9 ys back. I was with the Ranch owner in his truck in the middle of the day, it crossed the road like a rocket but I got a good look at it. It was the second time he has seen it. My understanding there are quite a few in south Texas. It was very easy to tell what it was, just like the Texas Parks and wildlife pictures, blackish/dark gray (Gaurd Hair). Med sized cat with short legs. Larger than a bobcat, smaller than Mt Lion. One of the Parks and Wildlife guys told my buddy that there were actually a lot more than what people thought.

I've hunted South Texas and Northeast Mexico for many yrs and many of the ranches in Mexico have large populations of Mt Lions, but I have yet to see one. But I can say I had a first hand look at a jaguarundi.

The state of Iowa officially maintains it has no cougars. The state of Iowa also states that even if it DID have cougars (which it does, by the way), it's illegal to hunt them.



I've gotten all this from Iowa's "official" websites. Maybe if the head DNR guy gets killed in a cougar attack, they might make some changes. Nobody's holding their breath waiting for this to happen, however.



Russ

Russell,
I think you might be out of date about Iowa, and mistaken too. We have had several lions actually killed here in Iowa. Two by cars, one of these was clawless.

Two more were shot by farmers who cornered them in fields (easy to do at the right time of year when the corn is coming down). One was in the NE about 2 yrs ago, and it was probably a wild animal from a known pair of lions in South Dakota. The other was shot in SW Iowa, in or near Lucas county about 1 yr back. It is unknown where it came from, if it was wild, but there was no reason to believe it was NOT wild (no signs of declawing, tattoos, collars, etc.).

Several people have been known to keep these animals as pets and many earlier sightings can be traced to them. But not all, and not these last two.

Does that mean that Iowa has wild cougars today? No. These exceptions are quite likely roaming animals that are coming from elsewhere such as moose and black bears sometimes do in Iowa. It is unlikely that there is a breeding population of them here - but I could be wrong. The DNR is willing to admit that there have been wild cougar shot in the state lately, but they are not willing to wager that there is a breeding population of them here. I think that's about the right conclusion. I'm a speck more doubtful about the wild part myself.

As for the legality, unless that JUST NOW changed, they are totally unprotected, as are bears, thanks to the blustering of one hyper rightwing dumbass state legislator that blocked attempts to put up a couple laws to protect lions and bears in the state should they appear. The two shooters were NOT prosecuted, though they might say they were a bit persecuted by others who thought the deeds senseless.

Moose, elk, and antelope (not entirely sure on that that last one) are protected in the state although no breeding populations occur here. At least one person was prosecuted for illegally killing a cow elk that could not be linked to a game farm/elk ranch. Moose are about a once every 2-yr occurance coming down from the north. Some even make it Missouri before being hit by a car or mysteriously disappearing.

Also offical records for the state of Iowa include wolverine and lynx (both also not protected).

Brent

I'm pretty sure black panthers exist because I've seen a number of them in Tarzan and Jungle Jim movies on the Sat. A.M. TV. I know those guys wouldn't have lied to young impressionable kids.

Well, it might be how we're both looking at this. I'm talking about out-and-out hunting them.

7) Did the DNR release large predators in Iowa?
The DNR has not released mountain lions, bobcats, timber wolves, or black bears in Iowa and has NO plans to do so. Mountain lions and bobcats are on the increase because of very low interest in trapping continent wide due to low fur prices. Also, animal rights activists have succeeded in ending spring lion hunting in the West, where most lion populations remain. Wolves and black bears are on the increase in Minnesota and Wisconsin, because of introduced populations of wolves (they are on the Federal Endangered and Threatened Species list) and restrictions on spring bear hunting in the U.S. and Canada. All four species are moving into Iowa (or will soon), because of these increases in their numbers elsewhere.

Cougars are not protected in Iowa. Therefore, if you feel threatened by a cougar, you may shoot it and not suffer recourse from the DNR. Cougars are generally shy, secretive animals that avoid humans at all costs. We have not had any reports of close contact with humans, but if the occasion occurs, then you should contact your local conservation officer immediately.

I currently am awaiting word from the Iowa DNR on this. I can no longer find what I'd found some time ago, the last I checked on this (which was prior to my going to Iraq, so it's been at least a year) but, previously, I'd found verbage on Iowa's DNR website to the effect that "even if cougars exist in Iowa, we're not letting you hunt them." So I'll concede my information, posted above earlier, is dated. If I get an answer to my E-mail, I'll post it here.

As it stands, it seems you can shoot them if your life is in danger and, yes, they're "not protected," but they're not clear at all about allowing "hunting" for the animals. This was what I meant earlier. It's good to know they won't hold Iowans criminally liable for shooting a cougar that's about to eat one of their kids.

Thanks, Brent.

Russ

Well, by default then, this would be good news. True, Iowa has had no "season" on them.



I don't understand the "capital offense" comment, though, Brent. I thought I recalled that you use your BPCR to hunt... maybe that was someone else. (Age sucks and so does a failing memory.) Do you WANT cougars to establish a population in Iowa? I'm just trying to understand your perspective.



Russ

Nope, nobody evers is mistaken about black panthers. NEVER!!


'Panther on the Loose' Is a Cat (French city surrenders to house cat)

6.22.04

MARSEILLE, France (Reuters) - The southern French city of Marseille called off a three-week hunt for a black panther on Tuesday after the animal sighted by several residents turned out to be a large house cat.

"The 'panther' is just a black house cat -- a very big one though," said a spokeswoman for the local prefecture, adding the animal was about 24 inches long and weighed some 22 pounds.

Police deployed dozens of searchers this month after reports that a blank panther was roaming around the nearby Calanques area, popular with tourists for its creeks, rocks and beaches.

Searchers finally caught up with the animal and identified it as a cat but were still unable to catch it, the spokeswoman added.

Well, much to my chagrin, Outdoor Writer was correct on the wording of the LA. hunting regulations. I call the Dept. of Wildlife and Fisheries and spoke to the head enforcement officer in Baton Rouge. The phrase Black Panther has never appeared in the regulations that he can recall. So I retract my statement about the catch-22 in my opening paragraph. . That being said, and without prompting from me, he did say that his understanding was that Black Jaguars were documented in northern Mexico, but were extremly rare. They have never been documented in the states and neither have melanistic cougars. His supposition is that people who see a Black Panther are seeing common animals that the light plays tricks with. This in turn leads to the incorrect identification of the Black Panther. My problem with that statement lies in the fact that when I saw mine it was 1330hrs and in August, so the sun was overhead. I have seen a lot of animals from full light, to dusk, to dark, and have yet to make an incorrect identification.(Other than if is it a buck or doe). What's the proof of what I saw? Nothing but my word, and I'm not a liar so I stand by my assertion that I saw a Black Panther.

Now as for killing one. I personally would not kill one of our wild cats unless I was under attack. That's just my view on the issue and I'm not looking down on others who have killed them. A couple of years ago one of my hunting buddies commented that we should kill every Bobcat we see. I said why? His answer was that they kill a lot of deer. I think Coyotes would kill more deer than Bobcats. But you have to be realistic about the overall numbers. In Mississippi there are around 200,000 deer killed each year by humans. I don't think the predators that we have impact the herd as hard as we do by a wide margin.
I guess this subject is like UFO sightings in that most people who have had a sighting won't state so in public. Soiled reputations and all.

My God, an answer from the Iowa DNR.
===
Dear Russ
Thank you for using our IDNR website. There is no law in Iowa that would stop you from shooting a Cougar, we're not quite sure what would make you want to do that, however you would need to be fully licensed as a non-resident before doing so. If we can be of any further assistance to you please feel free to contact us here again on the web or in person at 515-281-5918.
===

"We're not quite sure what would make you want to do that?"

Um... because they're there??? Okay, I'm apparently the only one here who would enjoy being able to actively hunt cougars without having to pay for airfare, guides, and trespass fees.

Russ

In Alaska the regulations state that if an animal is not listed in the regulations , you may not hunt it.

I have heard rumors of cougars in Alaska but they are not listed in the regs so they would be illegal to hunt.

There is another reality to consider regarding the spread and/or existance of overgrown cats in your neighborhood or state, regardless of color. I know from personal experience that the bunny hugger crowd will use them in more ways than you can imagine as a tool to curb your access to hunting land, and the courts will not intervene in your behalf. The issue of the 2nd Amendment is debated, but there is no Constitutional provision that assures your right to hunt. From what I've seen in Florida, you REALLY, REALLY don't want large cats moving in on you in any fashion. I suppose that philosophy extends to wolves and other things of that nature. The bunny humpers are relentless, and always will be....

I kinda like the S.S.S. Theory myself, not because I can, but because of what I've seen.

You guys were never around Oakland in the 60's were you?

Very disappointed today. I got the 2004 Fall Hunting Catalog from Bass Pro Shops(RedHead) and flipped through it. ALL KINDS of Game calls, Elk, Moose, Deer, Ducks, Geese, Dying Rabbits, Rabbits in Distress, Rabbits having a Hissey Fit, Crow, Dog Whistles, etc.

But guess what they DIDN'T have??? A BLACK PANTHER call!!!

No wonder people have a difficult time seeing them when there isn't even a call available to use "specifically designed" to call them in. I guess a person could use a "Rabbit in Distress" call and hope a BLACK PANTHER will come in to assist the poor rabbit.

Pitiful situation to have this "gap" in the Calls. Maybe I should call Harold Knight and ask him just why he doesn't have a BLACK PANTHER call!

...

By the way, the old Rabbit in Distress and Fawn Bleet works just fine on S.C. Wildcats and Coyotes.

Loved the video, Jesse! Cracked me up!!!

Russ

Crazy ya ain't: Approximately 1987 we lived in NW Louisiana, Haynesville to be exact. My wife had gone to the big city (Magnolia Ark) and got home just after dark.
She said she had seen something and proceeded to describe a very large black cat; approximately 4 foot long with a 3 foot tail. My wife is laid back and does not see or here things that go bump in the night...I talked to several of the guys at work. One has an uncle (Very Big Guy, type you leave alone) who will not hunt the bottoms just west of Bayou Dorcheat. His story was that just at dark he left his deer stand walking the 1/4 mile back to the truck. He didn't see, but felt something was stalking him. Just as he got to the truck he heard the scream....ya don't want to tell this guy he is crazy....
How many times have we heard about the bird or monkey that has been confirmed alive after all the "expert" say they have been extinct for 20 to 30 yrs.....

Just in case you wonder; YES I believe in Big Foot and the other 37 varities scattered around the world.....

I have heard them scream at night here in Louisiana too. Talk about make your skin crawl. There are lots of folks around our Hunting Club that have seen them.

I haven't seen them and can't say I believed the stories until, one night deep in the back woods one screamed really close to me. That is one sound that I will never forget. It sounded like a woman in distress.

Reloader

One was spotted by my house when I was on vacation they think it was somebodys pet and they let it go I guess it has been around the area for a little more than a year. The DNR was called out two weeks ago and looking at the tracks they said it was a large cat and two years ago a sherrif had recorded a Moutain lion 10 miles north of my house. To me I just think it is a color phase of a mountain Lion here is a link you guys can read.
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/agarman/bco/fact2.htm

dakor brings up an interesting point. If a black panther is spotted by a house, what color are the spots?

It would be the same color as the house that it was spotted by.

You guys crack me up I have never seen the black cat that is supposedily in the area but I have seen the video clip of the cougar that was taped two years ago 10 miles north of me so I know for sure there is a brown one running around as for the black one I have no clue if there is one or not but I will say this people believe there is a God but know one has seen him or talked to him we just have a book with the name Bible on it and the article I posted has a picture of a black Jaguar on it so take it as you want to.

Many people believed the earth was flat also once up a time. The majority ain't always right. I'll go with the scientific facts and leave the ooga booga tales to the campfire.

This whole thing is a hoot! Geeeeeez.....

There is not black color phase for mountain lions. This does not have anything to do with what people have seen or think they have seen.

I just shot a black phase woodchuck .Now if I just use a little imagination it could grow into a lion.But then there are things like the ceolycanth [sp ?]fish which was extinct except that the natives ahad seen them.

Saw this website posted on the Taxidermy forum for different reasons, but I just had to post this page. Scroll down and see if any of you see anything familiar.

If I don't do this right, let me know and I'll try to redo it.

http://wildlifewonders.com/liontigbear.html

I think you should do it and post the pics here! I really didn't intend for the post to justify, in any way, the belief in black panthers. I just thought it was funny that after tracking this thread I came upon those particular items (there are two). Any way, I still believe in Santa, the tooth fairy, in going to Africa, in going to Italy some day, and lots of other things that lots of people tell me are silly. I can dream and believe if I want to and I don't try to convince others or justify myself. I'm okay with just being me. So, paint that hide black and show everyone just how you can make dreams come true!

There's a been a pic or two posted on taxidermy.net of someone trying to pass a dyed jaguar pelt off as a black cougar. I guess the spots are hard to hide cuz both pics I saw the pelt looked just like a dyed jaguar hide.

Jesse,
Pix on the net are about the easiest spoof possible. I can "dye" a hide in about 3 minutes using Photoshop. Heck, I can even get rid of the spots. -TONY

Hey Tony,

The pics weren't doctored, the hides were. THe people just took pics of the funny looking hides before the guy was thrown out of the place.