Ever notice how the gov't can create a catch-22 situation, and not even have the sense to clarify their stance? Case and point. About five years ago, I was traveling on a low traffic volume dirt road that's around fourteen miles long. On the left hand side is a large levee about 30' high. On the right is the Atchafalaya Swamp. Most of the swamp is refuge area. As I'm driving up the road I see a very large cat cross the road in front of me 150-175yds out. Now I know it was a cat, not a fox, dog, armadillo, black squirrel, etc. as the "scientist" I've told this to tried to convert the animal into. Using the road as a scale, the cats body was about 4' and the tail was 3'. It was about 3' at the shoulder and appeared black at that distance. It non-chalantly crossed the road and jumped a water filled ditch that was 8' across effortlessly. When I told a couple of the game wardens about it they laughed and I felt lower than a snake. I guess they could see my facial expression and said they weren't laughing at me, but that I was one of several people of late that had reported the same thing. As time went on, I had an opportunity to ask two game biologist from LSU, at different times, what they thought. They said anyone reporting such an animal had to be discounted outright because the melanistic gene had never been discovered in cougars. Well this pissed me right off. Here is the catch 22. The scientist and even printed material suggest that Black Panthers don't exist, but, when you read the annual hunting regulations, in black and white "IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL A BLACK PANTHER". Obviously someone thinks they are real. Those Jackasses! I bet if you guys out there look at your regulations, you might find something interesting as well.

Well, let's see. Not one piece of evidence of black panthers in North Amercia in over 200 years. Not one hide, carcass, road kill, video or pic. Nothing. Nada, zilch. Regular brown cougars are being found dead on the roads in Iowa, Illinois and Missouri and being filmed but no black panthers. Is the black panther able to move about without being detected? How is this so?

With all the zillions of game cams out there logic would dictate black panthers would have captured one on film by now. Game cams have captured the rare jaguars coming back into Arizona and even an alligator thought extinct in Thailand. But still no black panther. Makes you wonder. I'm not holding my breath.

Sightings of black panthers do make good ooga booga stories around the campfire though.

You should have sped up, you'ld have some hard evidence.

I understand your situation. I hunt up in Panola County Texas, over in the Sabine River bottoms. One morning after a successful squirrel hunt, my Dad, the game warden, another fella, and I were all standing around shootin' the breeze and telling stories. We happened to be staring down a pipeline right-of-way talking when, I shit you not, we ( me...everyone) saw the head, back, and tail of a large cat glide by just above crest of a ditch that ran across the right-of-way. I later walked over and saw some tracks where the cat had walked by. I guess he was watching us too? The guy Dad and I were visiting with lived right around where we had been hunting and claimed to hear it scream at night. I've known alot people who have heard the big cats scream at night and most of these people I refer to are the No BS type; I believe them. So if you ask me, I'd say YES, we do have panthers or some other big ass cat roaming around the woods of the South. Believe me or not; I know what I saw. And I'd swear on a stack of Bibles in clear conscience that I indeed saw a panther!

Just my $.02

The key word Tex21 is "Black Panther". Cougars or panthers as some call them, are well documented in Texas. Unlike the black panther which had NEVER been documented ANYWHERE.

I found, on the ESPN website, info about a mountain lion killed by a train on OK. It had been collared 9 months before almost 700 miles away !There are still states that deny they exist ,even states that have introduced them !There are black color phases of various animals ,certainly leopards, though I don't remember hearing of a black mountain lion (panther, couger, puma whatever you want to call it)

Hey Perforator, Always "AMAZING" to me when someone you have never seen, met or who has absolutely ZERO idea about the exact same spot you are talking about, begins structuring sentences to suggest you are a LIAR. I really don't understand that.



Well, no...... I'll reconsider that. If in fact you were that Draft-Dodging, Dope-Smoking, Adulterous, Liar - moscow bill clinton - then I could definitely understand.



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Saw something similar to what you saw about 12 years ago as I was headed to the Range. I had a later than normal start and the sun was up enough that I'd just cut off my headlights. As I approached a creek, a BLACK PANTHER crossed the road in front of me too. It was in no hurry and it took me a few seconds for my mind to "accept" what I'd just seen.



Didn't mention it for a good while and finally thought of a guy who lived about 1.5 miles from there. Drove by and asked him about BIG Black Cats. He stopped, turned to me and said, "So you have seen them too?". I'd only seen the one, but he told me he had seen them on and off on his Plantation for at least 85 years, he was 91 at the time.



Then about 6-8 years ago I was at the same Range and met a retired Winchester Rep. He has a large farm about 50 miles away to the East. As we discussed Bullets and Game, he mentioned there was a group of them on his farm. I specifically remember him starting the discussion with, "I know you will think this is crazy, but....." He was pleasantly surprised when I told him it wasn't crazy at all.



A few years later I was at the same Range and another guy who lives about 45 miles to the North mentioned he had seen a single BLACK PANTHER easing through a field of his.



Then about 3 years ago, my best hunting buddy saw a regular Catamount, Puma, Cougar, Brown(HA) Panther, whatever on his Plantation. A couple of years passed and I asked if he had seen it or any signs of it since then. His "wife" just happened to be watering flowers close to us and said, "I saw a BLACK one on the way to school last week." We both stopped, got the hose away from her, sat her down and asked lots of questions about "where" she had seen it. This one was spotted about 120 miles Southeast of the other group.



Changing states entirely, just two days ago a Cougar was spotted near the Oldham County and Henry County line which is about 28 miles Northeast of Louisville, KY. Next thing you knew there were "claims" that perhaps someone had "released" a Pet Puma. Then they showed the Wildlife Dept looking at the HUGE cat tracks and with a very straight face managed to say, "Oh that's someone's Hound's tracks!" For those of you who have hunted with hounds, you would also know it wasn't a Hound track. He said the "rope like tail" must have just been the dog's "wet tail".



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Had some tornadoes go through recently and there was a "live feed" via cellphone from a guy watching one approach his home from his Storm Shelter. As the Tornado destroyed his home, he apparently heard the "NEWS IDIOT" say something to the effect that they would need to get "confirmation" from a Policeman that a tornado had in fact touched down. Next thing you know, the guy that just lost his house managed to tell the "NEWS IDIOT" in very colorful words that he was in fact an IDIOT before they got him cut off!



Darn shame about him loosing his house, but I had to laugh out loud that he got to set the NEWS IDIOT straight, and still do thinking about it.



...



Anyway, since all those credible folks I mentioned above have seen BLACK PANTHERS, Catamounts, Cougars, Pumas or Brown(HA) Panthers, and since I saw "one" myself, I feel sure there is absolutely no credible evidence at all that they exist!



P.S. Insert the colorful words of your choice at this point for the non-believers!

As for the lack of evidence such as a carcass, we have black bears here and I've never seen tracks much less a carcass. Matter of fact, I haven't seen a dead coyote in the woods. So to me that is a poor indicator as to what lives in an area. I know the Jauguar has a black version. This looked like a mountain lion, just very dark. Simple as that. By the way, this was in August and I was on my way to scout for bow season. Imagine, climbing up a tree at 0500 and after getting all settled down, looking up and seeing this thing above you!

Makes sense to me. Thousands of black panther tales from all over the country yet no road kills, game cam pics etc. Every other animal is the woods is found splattered on the road or on film but the elusive black panther. Maybe they have a cloaking device they use huh.

Quote:

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Matter of fact, I haven't seen a dead coyote in the woods. So to me that is a poor indicator as to what lives in an area.

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I see dead yotes on the highway all the time. Along with deer, coons, possums, squirrels and an occasional bear. Never seen a dead cougar here but have seen the paper reports and pics of them getting hit. But gosh, no black panthers, EVER.



Not calling anyone a liar, just the scietific facts don't support all the ooga booga stories. Simple logic, that's all.



FYI, if anyone can turn up anything more than stories about black panthers in the US you'll be rich and famous.

That's a good point Spectre and I am not arguing the logical conclusions that without scientific data, personal accounts are viewed with skepticism. That being said, I know what I saw and for me the sighting needs no lab analysis or conclusive footage. I consider it a privalege to have seen it and I'm comfortable standing by my account that the animal was a Black Panther. The funny thing about the whole issue is the biologist don't recognize the existence, yet the regulations specifically site the illegallity of killing a Black Panther.

Someone brought up the endangered Florida "panther." So just to clarify, they are NOT black, as my photo of one below shows. -TONY

If you say it, I have no reason not to believe it.

A couple of points. 1st the question of a black mountain loin. True it has never been documented. However, there have been sightings across the country that span a very long time period. Mountain lion sightings are rare in most areas, even though those same areas have breeding populations. I have no doubt that a black mountain lion is possible.

Second, for many years I owned a place in Michigan's UP. There were reports of mountain lions being sighted. The DNR always claimed it was not possible. Or at the very best, there was a single cat that had escaped from a zoo.

Well, a friend of mine went out one morning to get his mail. He walked about 1/4 mile up the road to his mailbox. On his return, he found very large cat tracks covering the tracks he had made going to the mailbox. The cat was apparently stalking him. He starting singing very loud and walked back to the house. A local paper detailed a sighting of a mountain lion almost 70 miles from his home, that happened on the same day within hours of my friend's experience. So much for the single cat theory...

During the 1980's a Michigan DNR forester living in Escanaba, Mike Zuidema spotted a mountain lion while in the forest.

No photos or carcasses have ever surfaced, to my knowledge. The Michigan DNR alternately denies and then sometimes admits that just maybe there is cat or two out there. To my mind, it seems like a breeding population, as this has been going on for at least 30 years now.

http://www.lsj.com/news/local/020505_cougar_mainbar_1a-8a.html

http://www.michiganoutdoorsmen.com/gpage.html11.html

Never say never, soon as you do one will turn up. There are black jaguars so it really wouldn't surprise me if a black cougar turned up. Wouldn't surprise me if they crossbreed that far south and the gene shows up now and then.

Perhaps I stand corrected here. I sure recall reading it as the killing of a Black Panther but it was a few years ago so maybe I'm wrong. I don't want to mis-quote the La. DW&F but I'll try to search back and see if the wording was changed or if I'm wrong on it. Thanks for the heads up OW as I want to be factually correct on the subject. Still, I saw a Black Panther.

Well, I certainly never let facts get in the way of a good tale. So there's no reason you should either. -TONY

Yea, I saw a black panther too. It was dropped off by a black helicopter. I have heard there are also were some seen in various ghetto's in a couple of major cities during the 60's.

Hey RSY, I didn't recognize this particular Wildlife Dept. fellow, but I really suspect he "knew" what it was.

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On the other side of the coin is a story from Charlotte, NC about 4-5 years ago. Had a guy call me to ask if I'd seen the Black Panther on the local news?!?!?!?

Well, no I hadn't because I rarely waste my time listening to the Ultra-Liberal spin sessions any more, unless there is something specific I want to see.

BIG BIG news story with all kinds of interviews of Mothers worried about their children, pets, whatever. As luck would have it, I knew I wouldn't be able to see the news that night and asked the guy if he would mind "Taping" it for me.

Got back a bit late, but stopped by his house to see the News flick of the HUGE BLACK PANTHER.

Well.....(you all get ready),.......it was a HUGE BLACK CAT, sure enough. Only problem was that it was a HUGE BLACK Kitty Cat.

Two local good-ole-boys had a few cool ones and began playing with a VCR Camcorder. They had just enough brew in them that the picture of the owner's Kitty was slightly blurred and taken right at dusk. The next day, the Camcorder owner had the "bright idea" to see if he could possibly "Hoodoo" the Brilliant Radical-Leftist News fools. It worked so well that at least 3 Charlotte stations carried it for 3 days before anyone told them.

Only problems were the Kitty's head is shaped wrong, it hung down too low in the middle and the tail was not the correct proportion. But if that wasn't enough, right at the end of the tape, you could clearly see where he had not mowed his yard and there was a "Dandelion" to provide size perspective.

Of course, Panther Mania was running rampent in Charlotte back then because of the Football Team.

Perhaps it was a Jaguar! Their range did extend into the US and there is photo's of one on a ranch in Arizona in 97ish.

I have seen a black Panther twice on our farm in Ga.I saw it at dark once chasing a small doe.The other time it crossed the road by the house.The are very fast runners.My dad shot one in 1958 and so did his neighbor.They are three times bigger than a bobcat and about 60% the size of a cougar.I have a Zoology Degree and told my professor at UGA about it and he said are you sure you saw one.I would love to get at least a picture.The usually run on Rivers and around big swamps.I also saw a cougar in Putnam county while deer hunting.He came out during a thunder storm into a big pasture.He was also chasing deer.

I asked fish and game about them and they said there was no such animal.I then asked if it would be alright to shoot one then they said we would give me a very big ticket.I know of alot more people who have seen them around our farm .There is still a large area on the river there that no one lives.The usually scat out of there when its being clearcut I am told.

Some say no carcass, no film,= no animal.....
Two years ago in Columbus there was a 255lb black Bear caught in our Neighborhood. I live well within the city, anyway prior to that no signs whatsoever or since. I have hunted my entire life in the areas north of here (where they think it came from) and have never seen a bear. However they still exist.
Besides I thought a Black Panther was just a cougar/ puma/ Fla panther with a lot of melanin.

That is a beautiful cat. There is just something so unique and special about the American Cats that I don't think I would ever shoot one (of any color) for the hell of it. Of course if I was under attack, well that's another story. I wonder if the people who spotted the Jaguar before the picture and reported it were thought of as cranks or just lucky individuals? After all, Jaguars don't reside in the USA anymore right? My assumption would be that if anyone were to actually shoot a Black Panther they would owe 10,000 - 20,000 dollars and lose their firearm plus vehicle. On top of that probably six months in the hole and a felony record. Just my bet.

I know two brothers from south of Dallas that have sworn that they have seen them 10+ years ago.20 miles south of Dallas.Last sighting was 1995.Sightings were @ Sunset Ranch.

Spectr, it seems curious that you live in cougar country, yet sightings are rare. If you have a viable breeding population and rarly see them, then logically if you have a handful of cats that roam a large territory the sightings would be almost non-existent. Everyone knows people have always tried to produce hoaxes about all manner of things, panthers included. It is a shame that actual sightings are diminished in authentisity because of people like that.

This the photo of the jaguar caught on film by the AGFD. Note that is is not black. -TONY

Hey Tony, Sure is a pretty hide. Is AGFD - AZ?

For what it is worth, I'd wondered if the BLACK PANTHER I saw could have been a Cougar with "Black" Mud on it. Then I couldn't think of a "cat" wallering around in a mud hole. And of course, the 91 year old fellow explained that what I "thought" I'd seen had been seen by himself many times over the years.

I've "NOT SEEN" the S.C. Lizzard Man or the old West Coast Big Foot, but I'll keep my eyes open!!!

I have a friend who has sighted a black cat near were we live I have no doubt on his telling the truth.
I had a good laugh when I read a few years back our Deer biologist said there were no bleack deer in our state. I saw one another fellow down the road from me saw one and my father saw one. I dont think there were many I saw a doe the other one was a six point buck. We never had a shot at one during deer season I could have shot the doe but they werent legal.

Yes, it was AZ G&FD that had set up the camera after tracks had been found in the area. But this elusive feline might not be actually living in the US but rather in Mexico and just might be giving the border patrol the slip and coming in as an illegal immigrant occasionally.



Many of the reports of "black panther" sightings have indeed occurred in swamp areas of some states, so the mud theory perhaps holds some water -- or is that mud? Then again some of those areas still make some of that white lighting, too. In fact, I'm amazed more UFO sightings and alien abductions aren't reported from those climes.



Don't discount Big Foot either. I recently saw a report of a sighting; guess what he supposedly had on a leash???

-TONY

875 is correct about melanistic deer. There are also albino ones as well. Probably more albino and pie-bald than melanistic I would guess. There is another cat that inhabits these parts, and I didn't even know it existed until last year. Pardon the butchered spelling but I believe it's called a jagurundi sounded out phonetically. This is about the size of a bobcat yet pretty ugly and a solid coat of grey. I don't know how big they get but it's possible that's what I saw. Since all animals have genes that can crop up every few generations, I just can't say that the black coloration would not show every so often. Suffice it say that I would like to have a nice 35mm still frame, 5min of digital camera recordings, hair, blood and a fecal sample of a Black Panther, it still doesn't diminish my memory of the one I saw. By the way OW, I was kidding about the Jaguar not being in the US. I seem to remember that a rancher in NM got a little camcorder action of one a few years ago.

It's jaguarundi but you were certainly close enough for government work. They are on the endangered list in this country but lots still inhabit southern Mexico, Central and south America.



There *MIGHT* be ONE or TWO wandering about the U.S., but that's only a *VERY* remote possibility, and they likely wouldn't be as far north as MO and other states up there where BP sightings have allegedly ocurred.



And yes, melanistic cats certainly occur in both jaguar and leopards. There have been many CONFIRMED reports of them because they have been VERIFIED. See Spectr17's comments on what that comprises.



Most of the jags have been quite far south in Belize, however, or in South America. Is there a chance one could venture into the U.S.? See the preceding paragraph. As for a black leopard, I doubt one could make the trip on its own since they inhabit Africa. Plus, I know of NO CONFIRMED reports of black mountain lions (puma, cougars, panther, etc.)



I don't recall the incident in New Mexico, but that sure doesn't mean it didn't happen. Maybe this week I'll talk to my big cat contact at AZGFD and see what the latest is on the jags and get his thoughts on BPs. -TONY

Having seen a "black panther" myself, I am NOT going to call anyone a liar who claims to have seen one. Myself, and eight others, saw one in Chariton County, MO about a mile west of what is now called Mussel Fork, ( the junction of O and DD highways), about 40 years or so ago, when hunting for morel mushrooms. We all saw it, and saw the tracks afterwards. We were all farmers and spent a lot of time in the outdoors, my uncle, who was there, nearly lived in the woods during the furbearing season, killing truckloads of raccoons. He put two girls through college selling coonhides. Yeah, it was in Missouri, so what? We aren't the only ones who have seen them in that area, either, as others told us about seeing them, usually when driving at night (and only catching a quick glimpse), they are also outdoorsmen, who know the difference between this and that. Just a couple of weeks ago, my stepbrother told me that he saw a brown cougar, near the airport where he parks his Cessna, and said that the farmers locally were all upset about it, having seen it themselves. Northcentral MO still has some wild spots, where they could live most of their lives unobserved.

Okay, since everyone seems to have a black panther tale and they all can't be mistaken, I'll just go ahead and believe they exist.

Now, can someone just explain how all these hundreds and hundreds of black panthers move without being detected? Out here in California they are caught on security cameras, game cams, vehicles hit them, etc. Maybe we have black panthers all around us here and since I'm not a true believer I just can't see them. Is it that type of club where you have to trust something blindly, kind of like them charlatans on my color TV?

Do they have cloaking capabilities like the Romulans on Star Trek? If they do how do you get htem to turn off the cloaking device?

Let's cut to the chase and call a spade a spade. Not one of you have seen a black panther. You "think" you saw one but how can you see something that doesn't exist? Your mind is playing tricks on you. So either cough up the evidence or admit you are mistaken.

Here is a link to some jaguarundi info. http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/feliyago.htm

M16, if you said you killed a deer with a rifle and left no entrance or exit wound I would say, "how"? Well, you reply, I shot it in the asshole and it came out its nostril best I can figure. I would say thats one hell of a shot, not "your a liar". Don't start flaming on what was a civilized and pleasant discourse, on a subject matter that you have obviously closed your mind to! To all those out there who have seen a Black Panther, I believe you. As long as your not coming back from the Mardi Gras