todd- I really want the 168grn.Barnes-Xs to work in my 30.06. I could never get them to to group better than 1.5moa- usually +2moa. Then I tried some of the XLCs, same thing, that don't like my SteyrMannlicher.
I've shot BallisticTips & Partitions for years. I love them both, especially the Partitions.
I was determined to shoot a coated bullet (that I didn't have to coat) that would reduce fouling and land wear. When I worked up a load with the 180grn.FailSafes it was magic! Every load I've tried is 1-moa or better. I know they penetrate better than the Partitions and they should be every bit as good as the X if not better. I'm sold- one happy camper....

Todd,

I would have thought that this is allmost the generic rifle but with a premium on weight, trajectory but with the ability for ultimate penetration.

I think any of the standards or exotics will work. Myself I would go for the jack of all trades a light(ish) bolt action in a medium (non mag) 7mm a good scope such as a fixed 4x, 6x (perhaps not so good on the charge) or 1.5-6x42, shooting a 150gr scirroco or the new 160gr accubond. Mine would be a 7x57 yours might be a 280 or 284.

Are you a hockey fan Deke?

Tod Bertuzzi is a member of the Vancouver Canucks and he is on the #1 line in tne NHL.
He ways 240 and is by far the best power forward in tne league.
You can check him out on thursday when we play against the Colorado Avalanch. This will be the biggest game of the year for the Canucks.

Tod, what do you mean by God saves?
Shouldnt it be Jesus saves?

I personnaly believe that the need for bear defense should not be a issue for BG hunting south of alaska. As long as the rifle is capable of killing the species you have tags for, then you can look after the once in 10 lifetimes where a bear charge stopper is required.I would lean towardthe 180 gr Nosler in a 300 Win Mag in as light a rifle as can be carried in steep terrain. This would look after all game applications needed as long as enough qality practice is used.

BR

The .338 win. mag., and i like what i see in the .338 Remington Ultra Magnum. And i think the late Jack O'conner said that the best Grizzly rifle is the most powerful rifle that you could shoot accurately. Later Tanoose

Allen Day is shooting a 300 Winchester Mag. and if I am not making a mistake, a rifle built by D'Arcy Nichols. As for my self, I hunted all my sheep and other mountian game with a 270 Winchester and for the most part a fixed 4 x Leupold. For some odd reason it work just as good as Jack O'Conner said it would. A good .30-06 would do just fine too. On my last Dall Sheep hunt, I carried an ULA M-24 in 6.5 x 55 with a 6x Leupold, I shot 125 gr Nosler Partitions, I am thinking about having NULA build me a second rifle cambered for the 300 WSM.

Grizzly and goats with the same rifle is a large order but if I had to choose one to do it all, I would load for grizzly and accept overkill on goats.
I would load a .338 Win, or perhaps a RUM in the same caliber, with a 250 grain Partition. This load could do it all and its moderate expansion would show little meat damage on smaller game while providing excellent penetration on bear. If I thought I would have opprotunity to change loads and felt I could become suitably profeccient with two loads, I would also load up a light bullet for goats, maybe a 210 gr Scirocco or 215 gr Sierra GameKing.

358 norma magnum hits harder than the 338, and makes a bigger hole to boot.

Actually, don't you only need enough gun to slow your buddy down so you can run faster
A very light rifle would help in this case.

Sorry, I just had too.
Mark

This isnt so hard. Just find a quality M48 in 8X57 and add a lightweight synthetic stock. Learn to duplicate the 197 grn milsurp loads @ 2500 fs and practice, practice, practice.

I was easily pelting 9" rocks at an estimated 400 yds just yesterday with mine with the 197 grn loads. Once the range was dialed in it was spot on and that took one adjustment.

Very underrated cartridge and caliber. The more I shoot mine, the less I think it needs to be improved upon. A mauser in original chambering also has its advantages over other actions that might not be as reliable in a DG situation.

I think it's hard to beat a 30 cal of some sort... 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 300WM, et.al. Put a quality scope in the 1 3/4 x6 to 3x9 range on top and use the rifle for everything from gopher's on up. Before your hunt, stoke it with a quality bullet, actually shoot it at 100, 200 and 300 yards and you're good to go. I like my rifle's to weigh in at 8lbs or under "all-up." Stainless and African Walnut (fiberglass) are the preferred material's.

BA

I just put the final touches on my new mountain gun. A 308 Winchester. It's a Rem 700 ADL with open sights in a High Tech stock. I've got a 2x7 on it with the iron sights for backup.

If I can get the 168 XBT to shoot I'll be a real happy camper. So for I've tried 150 Hornadys and got around 1 - 1 1/4 inches. Plan to load some XBTs up this week and give them a try. Keep your fingers crossed!

Hi agian Tod.

I've shot 1 sheep and 1 goat. Hard to make a average out of that but both were within a 100yds.
They seem to have confidence because nothing can compete with them in foot speed on the mountains. If they have serious hunting pressure, that theory goes out the door. None the less they will see you first if you are not the most sneaky.
One thing my friends in Lillooet have had sucess with is, on stalks on goats, go with white coveralls.
They think your a goat til your well within rifle range. You can put these on when you get in a decent position.
Do you remember all those spray paintings around Vancouver that said "Jesus saves and Gretzky scores on the rebound"?
I used to see that 6 times on the train to work every day.

Brad, you call fiberglass "African walnut"?

How cool......!

AD

Todd

I think that it would be a tough job to get a "mountain" rifle in a cartridge capable of "breaking down" a big bear.

I have read on AR and other boards about hot 30s killing bears but to really break one down you need at least a 338 and larger diameter bullet that is heavy for caliber zipping along.

That bullet is not exactly the most efficient for goats.

Secondly, a mountain rifle suggests light weight. Serious light weight. I dont think that I would really want to pull the trigger on a truly lightweight 338 or .375.

Jim

You really need to break the framework down on a bear for the quickest and most decisive kills. A shoulder shot that also takes out the lungs is just about ideal.

You never know with big bears exactly what's going to happen next once you press the trigger. I've heard stories from professional guides about grizzlies that went down on the spot from a .270 bullet to the lungs and stayed there, and I've heard about others that were tough to put down with .338s. In general, medium bore magnums - thirty caliber and up - are the benchmark cartridges for mountain grizzlies I think. At least they are for me!

AD

Brad & Allen,

African walnut, ok but I have become very fond of Arizonian walnut, the best of which, IMO comes from the Phoenix area.

Sorry could not help myself.

Many Thanks

HBH

Allen, wish I could claim that as my own. I first heard Mark Dobrenski use it a couple of years back... nearly spit out my coffee!

BA

I would be just fine with my .280 or .30-06, but since griz is on the table, and I don't want to be on their's, I'll take a .338 WM, or even a 338WSM if they'd make 'em.

Hudge

I think a .280 is just about the perfect mountain rifle. A flat shooting light weight rifle and if you have problems with a grizz it's going to be a matter of bullet placement. A 160gr premium would be just the ticket for an all around load.

JAB,

Since you have that .308 built up for a mountain rifle are you ready to part with that .280 yet?!?!?

.338 Winchester Magnum with 250 grain bullets.

Capable of 400 yard shooting. Perfect for elk and moose. Anchors sheeps and goats! Matches up well for grizzly. Very good sectional density with 250 grain bullets with good velocity.

Here is my take on it. Imagine for now that you have two rifles in the vehicle and it's time to select one. It's still dark and you know the terrain that you have to climb in. The altitude may be high and packing out was also a requirement.

Both rifles are the same in reliablity and your familarity with them. One is a light rifle of 7.2 lbs in say .300 WSM with a 22" barrel loaded with whatever bullet that's best for the game. Such a rig would give a 180 gr bullet at least 2900 fps maybe more.

The other rifle is a traditional long action. They usually go 8.5 lbs and up if they have 24" barrels. There is a real difference in both weight and balance in these two rifles and the choice is yours.

If I am going to be short on breath at 8000 ft or holding on to some rock with one hand I would have the light rifle with me. If I was going to walk to some lookout not far from the vehicle then the heavy rifle is the one.

It's the rifle and not the cartridge that make the most difference to me.

I've been heading into the mountains of northern BC after sheep for the last three years with my 375 H&H. I always carry 300 grain trophy bonded bear claws on the trail. Last fall my hunting partner and I were sheep hunting and he was walking ahead of me on the trail when a big griz was coming down the trail right at us. Well guess what happened. My buddy who had 165 ballistic tips loaded in the ol' 06 politely got out of the way. So I stepped up to the plate and put a 300 grainer through the left shoulder and out the right leg. Blew the stomach wall right out.
I use 260 grain ballistic tips for sheep. Although the 375 H&H weighs in at 9 lbs and we do cover a lot of ground I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Good for you nogueira. No hesitation. Sounds like you have a smart hunting partner.

B

Boilerroom,

A Jesus fan for sure. Have time to follow the Broncos (and that has been sad as of late), but have never followed hockey more than the playoffs (just don't have the time is all). Grew up w/football, but will say that I respect the hockeys guys as much if not more.

As for other responses, this is close range (I would assume under 50yrds so the .308 has enough energy), shoulder shot that also gets the lungs does not sound like a defensive shot to me unless he is mauling your buddy and you are lucky enough to get this shot. On charging dangerous game, gotta be thinking CNS or heart shot and that is most likely frontal making the first one count which means using a bullet that can penetrate, a cartridge you can shoot accurately and fast. All of this means PRACTICE and penetrating bullet first. Breaking a shoulder will most likely buy you time, but chances are if he is up again he will come for you, if he retreats it may be temporary, but good chance he will come back for you. The longer this goes on the odds are that you will have to reload, run out of ammo, get so shaky and sick from adrenaline that you will lose.

Deke.