In the thread about "cartridges we can live without" the 7-08 fans put down the 30-06 as a weak and outdated cartridge.

The truth is the 7-08 is a "lightweight" 30-06.

For example the 150gr 7mm bullet has an sd of .266, the 180gr 30 cal bullet has a sd of .271.

The 30-06 can reach 2800fps with a handloaded 180gr.

The 7-08 can reach 2800fps with a handloaded 150gr.

This is not an attempt to take anything away from the 7-08, it is a great cartridge and fully the equal of the 7x57. My point is the 30-06 does everything the 7-08 can but with 20% more bullet mass, 20% more energy and 8% more frontal area.

Can anyone explain why the 7-08 is better?

Jason

I would be more inclined to compare the 7-08 with the 308 not the 30-06. A better comparison would be the 7X57 and the 30-06. In any case they are all fine cartridges with the same flaw, and that would be extreme range shooting. For medium range shooting I would consider the 30-06 the best of the lot by virtue of the .308 diameter bullet it fires. In any case all four cartridges are very fine accurate rounds that will give adequate service for medium range hunting and shooting.

As you stated these are all great cartridges I am a huge 7-08 fan because I like short actions.If you want to compare a 7mm w/30-06 it should be a 280rem. which is an 06 necked down to 7mm and slightly blown out so it wont chamber in the 06.

FWIW, you can BUY 30-06 180 grain loads that will do an honest 2900 fps in a standard length barrel (Hornady Light Magnum) There are people here who push it slightly faster using handloads (but not me).

You cannot get 2800 fps from a 150 grain bullet in a 7-08 with a short barrel commonly found on the small light rifles chambered in 7-08. I know in my Model 7 I'm lucky to push 2800 fps with 140 grain bullets
over my chrony. So why bother with the smaller cartridge if you end up with a full size rifle in order to try and make it perform to 30-06 levels.

I love my 7-08 and it seems to come into its own in the 120-140 grain bullet range. Its also an excellent small lightweight efficient deer rifle. It would work on elk in a pinch...but I'm not pinched.

There is simply little comparison between a 180 grain slug at 2800 (or 2900) and a 150 at 2800. The amount of penetration afforded by the bigger slug is easily discernable to anyone who has shot any amount of big game.

The 7-08 is a necked down version of the 308 witch is a shortend version of the 06 witch is a lengthend version of the 7x57 witch is virtualy ballisticaly identical to the 7-08. Hmmmm, and Boddington says we could do without the 7x57.

I think I read what you did, and I believe that the person was comparing the two cartridges in "carbine" lenght guns M760, M7,etc. in wich barrel lenghts would be 18.5-20". In this case, I would agree that the 7mm-08 is better suited to these type of rifles. I Personally feel the 7mm-08 has it all over the 308win as well, again just my opinion.
In full length rifles, M70, M700,etc I would compare the 30-06 to its own sibling the .280rem (not the 7x57). In this case there is no since arguing wich is best, as they can both do the same work equally well, exspecially with some of the premium bullets available to both. For example a 150gr X bullet from a .280 is on par with a 165gr X bullet from a 30-06. Both will shoot flat, both will take down a bull elk. Some would agrue that the 7mm 150gr has a greater sectional density, but I believe that the X bullet as well as other premiums retain so much weight that SD is really a moot point.

------------------

Way to go Mark, that was the most sensible thing anyone has said in all the "this vs. that" threads. I think you finally nailed it. Flinch

The real question is, does the undisputed, albeit minimal increase in "power" of the -06 have a signifigant difference in terminal performance on game? The answer is, a resouding NO! Whatever game the 7-08 is suited to, the -06 will take with equal aplomb, whatever game the 7-08 comes up lacking for, the -06 isn't best suited for.

The reason the -06 has been used for so many different animals over the decades is it was what was available, not because it was the best tool for the job.

If you like the 7-08 fine, if you like the -06 fine, but the -06 owners shouldn't be deluded into thinking their round is a signifigant step ahead of any of the passle of .264" to .308" rounds, they are all in the same class, smallbores, best suited for soft skinned non-dangerous game 500#'s and less. They can certainly be used for larger game, and dangerous game, but will occasionally come up lacking.

Beings I started this,with comments on the other Thread,I'll weigh in.

Neither are Brown Bear cartridges,of the first order,in my opinion. So we'll leave that spot blank. But barring that critter,what animal in North America is the 30-06 at a huge advantage,over the 7-08?

For a single load,I'd happily shoot the 140XLC in the 7-08 at 2800fps. There isn't a single critter,left upon that North American list,that is going to shake that abuse upon his anatomy.

It isn't that the 7-08 outclasses the '06,just that it is in the same ballpark and housed in a friendlier package. I view them as equal,in capabilities and in the class of Game they'd be used upon.

With that,my preferences are for a lighter/shorter overall package,without making sacrifices that could change terminal effects. The short action houses it comfortably,it doesn't require a 3.00" mag box to breathe and it is flexible in regards to barrel length options(23" my favorite). The 7-08 excells at all of that.

She's a sleeper,Gents............

I would pick the 30-06. I can use it for everthing from groundhog to moose and shot the heavy if needed

Big Stick has posted some excellent points for the 7-08. The 06 wins only in the heavy bullet dept that is all. So for grizzes and maybe certain elk hunts the 06 wins, all else for N.A. the 7-08 can handle fine if the right bullets are used. Remember the bullet does the killing(placed properly) not the cartridge case. There is a website for 7-08 fans. Type in 7mm08 Remington Page on the search engine or try clicking on http://members.tripod.com/sed88/rem7/

sure-shot

The 7-08, a sweet shooting and accurate little cartridge for whitetails is a favorite of mine.

However, it doesn't touch the 30-06 for versatility. It is in the same situation as the 308, from where it was born. Excellent in lighter weights, but certainly not capable of handling a heavy bullet and maintaining velocity.

Great cartridge, but no where near as versatile as a 30-06.

Bigstick

I agreed with your post until I read the last paragraph.

You mean to tell us you use a 7-08 because it can be built into "a shorter handier package" but then you go on to say you like a 23" barrel best?

Now let me get this straight, you use a short action to save a half inch in action length but then screw a barrel on that is one inch longer than "standard".

This means your rifle is longer than a 30-06 with a 22" barrel. Of course your extra inch of barrel gives you a 25fps gain over a 22" tube so now your 7-08 trails the 30-06 by 275fps instead of 300fps with like weight bullets.

The truth is the 7-08 will do most everything a 30-06 will but that does not change the fact that the 30-06 is a full step up when dealing with game between 400 and 1000 pounds.

If elk, kudu, zebra, gemsbok or any animals of this class are on your list the 30-06 is no doubt a better choice.

Jason

Jason,

Sorry,that one inch of barrel length,sent you for a loop. I shouldn't have been sooooo crafty!

Balance,length,weight are subjective things. I've little doubt,that the entire Board's opinions will vary upon those specifics,once they were hammered into detail. I've two 22" 7-08's,two 24" 7-08's and a 15" pistol in the same.

23" strikes me,as a very nice round number,in retrospect. I have no doubt after having built three previous 7-08's,this next one will more closely resemble my notion of perfect. 23" splits the difference nicely. I've other light rifles,with that length of barrel and like it.

Regardless of the length of barrel,one wants to install on the 7-08,it will never be a speed demon. But the abbreviated versions are loud and do cost some speed.

Build what you like and suits you best. Don't let a guy you've never met or seen before,ruin your day,with an inch of barrel length!

If you tended to agree with the crux of my post,substitute your "magical" barrel length and live happily ever after.

The heart of the matter,remains on course................

Bigstick

If the overall length is not a concern why is a short action preferred in a hunting rifle?

Going back to your first post "it doesn't require a 3.00" mag box to breath....". How does a shorter magazine box benefit a hunting rifle????????

What qualities does a SA posses that allow it to be build into a "friendlier package" if you use a full length barrel?

Jason

Blah, Blah, Blah!

The 7-08 wins hands down because it is many magnitudes less boring!

OK, I'll try to be a little constructive.... If you're always hunting moose and big bears, the '06 has an advantage. But if you're always doing that, what the hell are you doing shooting an '06?

Deer, antelope and smaller, the 7-08 shoots flatter and kills just as well while kicking less. I took a couple of elk with mine and none of them laughed at me after the shot.

If the 7-08 is too small for what you're hunting, you'd be much better off with something bigger than a "boring" '06.

Fun and games asside, basically anything you'd shoot with either won't know the difference with proper bullet selection. Whatever makes the guy behind the trigger happy (for whatever reason) is obviously the much better cartridge....

It's easy to say that a 7-08 has it all over a .308. Just how is that? Sierrra lists 12 bullets for 7mm while they offer 27 in .30 caliber. My .308 shoots best with 165s. All of the load and accuracy data that I've ready shows the .308 has it all over a 7-08. Go to this very web pages reloading data pages and compare. The .308 numbers show a bunch more smaller groups. A .308 with a 1 in 12 barrel will shoot a wider selection of bullets better than an a 7-08. As for a 30-06, its short fall is that most rifles are barreled with a 1 in 10 which isn't my first choice for 165 or less bullets. Someone once said that you should shoot the slowest twist which will stabilize a particular bullet. I've found that to be true.

Rifleman7, When comparing bullets of like SD
ie: 7mm 140gr VS .308win 165gr (SD=.248) (in the same type of bullet) The 7mm-08 shoots flatter and hits just as hard as the
.308win. (within a few ft/lbs) All this with noticeably less recoil, in short carbine length rifles. As I stated in my post, this is my opinion. In the real world No deer sized game would ever tell the difference.

------------------

[This message has been edited by Mark G (edited 12-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mark G (edited 12-21-2001).]

All else being equal smaller is better. Lightweight .30-06 is a good way to describe the 7mm-08 - it's a perfect all around cartridge that doesn't kick quite so hard, doesn't use quite so much powder and can be built a little smaller than a .30-06.

I'd love to have one, I just happened to get a .30-06 first and the two are so close in performance I can't justify both.

JBrown,

Commenting that it doesn't require a 3" mag box to excell,infers that it is both Remington 700 and Ruger 77 short action friendly. The Winchester has a longer mag box,as does Mel Forbes ULA/New ULA. Most would have read that in,I should have been more concise.

My idea of a full length barrel is 24". Anything shorter than that,is an abbreviated form,of that dimension(my opinion). Longer than that,is what I'd term a "long" barrel and the sky is the limit. I have them from 26.25" all the way to 30". As length increases,so does utility................

Rifleman7,

You are floundering in the hype,instead of paying attention to realistic expectations.

Just how many different loads do you want stuffed in your front pocket and staggered in your magazine box,on a Hunt? 12? 27?

I've high end examples of both the 7-08 and 308,in "Tactical" guise. Both on massaged 700's,superb quality S/S blanks,McMillan stocks and Leupold glass.

To rate the 308 as superior in accuracy,is folly. The 7-08 is no slouch in any department and it's longsuit is breathtaking accuracy. The 308 enjoys a bigger following,due to mil-surp components. That is an economic advantage and certainly NOT a performance advantage. Either cartridge,assembled by a good craftsman employing quality components,will dazzle you in the accuracy department. Accuracy is the LEAST of concerns,with either round.

When you start barking about twist rates,you hang yourself,because your window for bullet weights,becomes smaller(if that is still important tp you). I like a faster twist,but that is personal preference. I've multiple 30's that will border on the unbelievable,with the 165gr/10" twist combo. Were the discussion in regards to a no frills BR rifle,where you had a single projectile in mind,I'd concur on losing some twist. A step up the "twist ladder" on a Hunting Rifle,leaves the doors wide open. My favorite Game bullet is the X,it is longer than a like bullet of the same weight(often longer than a bullet of heavier weight). Projectile length,dictates twist rate,I prefer to hedge a bet and keep things on the safe side.

To further stir the pot,I think the increased rotational velocity(RPM)is an aid in terminal effects. Can't prove it,but it is more than a sneaking hunch. That is most evident,in smaller diameters and on varmints. I'm convinced a 1-9" twist 223,scatters chunks better than a 1-14",when both are shooting 40's at the same speed. Far from Scientific,but worthy of mention(could warrant another Thread,with incoming comments,on that one).

SD,never made a damn to me,after the invent of superbly reliable Game bullets(X in particular). Placement and projectile integrity,are my focal points,the rest is just conversation.

As mentioned prior,the 7-08/140gr XLC combo,is capable in more ways than most would allow it credit........................

Rifleman7,

Your comments,made me curious,so I perused Saeed's data. What I found,bore out my prior experience with the 7-08. It is very accurate and easy to work with.

Were you to note the radically different rifle types,his 7-08 and 308 data were tested in,the answers would be clear.

In the 7-08 data,he used a bone stock 700BDL as a platform for accuracy. Nothing the matter with that and it certainly is my favorite vehicle(Rem700 action). He had great "luck" with this cartridge in that Factory rifle. Many groups that are sub.5MOA and a couple that were in the .3's. That is SUPERB! You could spend a lot more money,to realize much less acuracy.

The 308Win Target data,was compiled in a vastly superior rifle. It wore a Hall action,a Hart barrel,superb stock,a 24x Leupold and a tight neck BR chamber. Every one of those attributes,an accuracy aid. Combine them and you have the best money can buy. So of course that rifle shot better groups,on the average,than the over the counter Rem700 BDL. Had it not,it would be my guess,that Saeed would have been a very unhappy camper!

I guess I can see,where you may have based your opinion. As always,it pays to read the fine print...............

Both are fine cartridges! However, to say that the 7-08 will do everything that the 30-06 will do (just as well) is silly! Nine times out of ten the game won't know the difference, but what about that tenth time?

When I was looking for a High-power silhouette rifle (because they wouldn't let me use my 338 Winmag, and 243 win is marginal), I read in a reloading manual (Hodgedon?) that there is no good reason to get a 308 win over a 30-06 in a bolt action rifle. The 30-06 will ALWAYS push the exact same bullet faster (all other parameter equal). As much as I like the 308, I went with the 30-06 for that reason, and am very happy with it. I think that this analogy also applies to this forum.

I would much rather have a 30-06/200gr than a 7-08/175gr if a bear, cat, boar, etc. thought that I was lunch!

IMO, Bigger IS better when it comes to big game, no such thing as "overkill".

'nuff said....

Merry Christmas!,

Bill

Well, apparently I can justify both because I just bought a 7mm-08 to go with my 2 .30-06es.

This is one of those unsolvable debates that depends entirely on individual priorities. Therefore I feel the need to weigh in for some reason. ;-)

The .30-06 has more frontal area. Sometimes that may be important, sometimes not. For any given sectional density, the .30-06 takes a heavier bullet. That gives you more recoil, and more retained energy downrange.

Objectively, the .30-06 is "more powerful." Whether "more powerful" is necessary, depends on the game and conditions.

Whether "more powerful" translates into "more effective" depends on the game, conditions, and characteristics of the shooter. A practiced, recoil-tolerant shot can probably get more out of the .30-06. On the other hand, a recoil-shy individual may get more performance out of the lighter-kicking round.

Short action/long action -- I've never been able to get worked up over an extra half-inch of gun, so I will leave it to others.

Ease of loading -- My 7mm-08 isn't even here yet but I've looked at the published data including Saeed's and it does seem that there are a whole lot of powders and bullets that produce good velocities for a whole lot of different people. I think Saeed got one group over an inch out of his whole test series?

I have a sneaking suspicion that I will end up shooting my 7mm-08 quite a bit, and be a better shot for it.

John

Some of you guys can perform marvelous mental gymnastics... and come out flat on your face but convinced you "stuck" your landing! Sheesh. Charts, graphs and the like rarely tell the whole story.

The 7-08 is a wonderful cartridge, no doubt. I had one built on a win 70 stainless SA (22" bbl.). It is, however, no 30-06. I'd always take a 30-06 with 180's or 200's on elk over a 7-08 any day. I'd also rather use a 308 on elk over a 7-08. The 308 is a more versatile big game round than the 7-08 as well. The 7-08 (or possibly 6.5-08) is, to me, at the very bottom rung in terms of general-purpose big game rounds. Anyone who spends enough time slapping big animals with both cartridges will eventually see the superiority of the 30-06.

That said, the 30-06 is boring!

The petite SA's like the 260 and 7-08 have great appeal, are easy to load for and work very well for the game they're fit for. Recoil and muzzle blast are light... those are nice attributes. I tend to grab a 338 Win Mag for elk over the 30-06. I did get a 300 WSM, and it definately has an edge over the 30-06. I'll probably have a 260 built for coyotes, deer and the like, (23" bbl.)but if I were reduced to one rifle I'd keep my 06.

Brad Amundson

Ahhh,I amble back and another couple points have been made. The dreaded increased frontal area and SD arguements. Both widely misunderstood,though often trumpeted.

Everyone run back to their reloading and get a micrometer and come back. Open it up,to .024". That is the incredibly amazing difference in frontal area,between the .284's and .308's. Those without a micrometer,closely examine a dime. According to my random sampling,of three different dimes,they average .050" in thickness. The difference between the two "classes" of cartridges,is seperated by HALF that thickness(.024"). Needless to say,it is a minute difference,regarding frontal area.

SD,has minimal affect,upon retained energy. All bullets,sharing a like diameter and weight,wear EXACT SD numbers. Be it roundnose,hollowpoint,spitzer,VLD,etc.

Ballistic Coefficient(BC),is the numerical designation,denoting aerodynamic performance capabilities. Assuming equal speeds,SD's and everything else,the higher BC will retain the most velocity,energy and give flatter trajectories. It is the determining factor.

Retained energy,is a function of many things. It is very inaccurate,to assume the highest SD value,will yield the highest retained energy figure. Initial velocity and BC,weigh very heavily,in that equation.

The most critical facet,in my opinion,is the proper melding of all those traits(including projectile integrity) to maximize the particular cartridge in question.

On the flipside,I'd much rather Hunt Elk with the 7-08/140X combo as opposed to the 30-06/200gr combo. That from a guy,who's killed a couple critters with the '06 and dismissed it in favor of the 7-08...........

The .308 bullet has a frontal area 19.27% greater than a .284 bullet.

.308 = .0745 sq. inch
.284 = .0633 sq. inch

Difference= .0122 sq. inch.

.0122 is 19.27% of .0633

You cannot measure area with a micrometer or a caliper. Pie X Radius squared = Area.

MM (a product of MT public school system)

You can effectively and accurately measure diameter,via the micrometer. The crux of the post,is that it is a hair splitting miniscule difference,at best.

'Tis the bullet,that inflicts the damage. Assuming quality projectiles in each,they'll open to a diameter much larger than their start. Assuming good construction,they'll both dig deep. Assuming good placement,they'll both kill on an equal level. An ass shot,with either,is still an ass shot.

That is the crux of the Post. The differences are minute. What one will do,so will the other.

Make mine a 7-08................

Big Stick, 19%is not miniscule in my book. I wouldn't shrug off a 19% pay cut. But I agree with you in your assesment of the 7-08. In that if the animal is too big or dangerous to be reasonably hunted with a good 7-08 load, a 30-06 will not be much better. I would probably look to the .338WinMag or better for a serious increase in killing power. MM

I shoot a 7-08 Ackley in a 20 inch barrel at 3000fps with 140 grn bullets For me it handles all but the big bears. I have many other rifles including a 06, but i must say i use the 7-08 AI the most. If I had only 2 rifles They would be 7-08AI and 338-06 for the big wooley animals. But I like having different guns to keep me from getting bored.

What cartridge do these numbers remind you of?
Bullet: 216 grains
caliber: .334
Velocity: 2800
Energy: 3760 ft-lbs

These numbers are very close to those of a 338 Winchester magnum.

I posted these numbers to show that the difference between the 30-06 and 338 win mag is nearly identical to the difference between the 7-08 and 30-06. If you don't believe the above statement check my calculations.

Bullet weight:
150 x 1.2 = 180
180 x 1.2 = 216

Bullet diameter
.284 x 1.084507 = .308
.308 x 1.084507 = .334

The 2800fps is the average maximum velocity for a 150gr bullet in a 7-08 and a 180gr bullet in a 30-06. Energy is calculated using a 216gr bullet at 2800fps.

Unless you believe the 338wm is only a very small step up from a 30-06 please don't try to tell me the 30-06 is only a very small step up from a 7-08.

Ignoring all the SA v. LA BS one will see the 7-08, 30-06 and 338wm are all work horse cartridges that do little more than kill. But then, what more could you ask for?

Jason

BS... your preferences are very interesting... I doubt, however, if you hunted elk in dry timber with their incredibly rubbery hide that you'd ever choose a 7-08 over a 30-06. I'd much rather have a 30-06 with 180 X's than a 7-08 with 140 X's. Certainly the 7-08 will kill the elk. However, the 30-06's frontal area will improve the chances of a better blood trail... as a 338 will over a 30-06, etc., etc. Micrometers don't tell the whole story... there is a discerinible difference in the field.

Brad Amundson

Brad,

All I know is the Jungles of the Pacific Northwest.It's the only place I've lived,worked and played.

I've a very good understanding of the terrain and foliage one encounters. Also a good idea,regarding what a Roosevelt does to the typical Rocky Mountain,regarding average body size(dwarfs it).

I've used the '06,with success. However,the 7-08 is no second fiddle and is my preference,without reservation. I've shot both,with an open mind.

Funny,how you never see nor hear about a guy,who toted a 7-08 and was dissatisfied. Though the '06 establishment is quick to throttle the 7-08,without having even fired one,let alone harvested Game with it.

I am the most open minded of types and never afraid to give a new cartridge a go. To outperform the 7-08 with good bullets,you need to bypass the 30-06 and step up to a distinctly different class of cartridge.

Give her a whirl,it won't disappoint...........

OK... apparently you didn't read my post. I HAVE a 7-08.

Sooo... a smaller, lighter bullet is the equal of a heavier, bigger bullet at equal velocity. Much as I love the 7-08, your logic eludes me.

I've given it a whirl... I'll use something bigger on elk.

Merry Christmas, and best regards...

Brad

Bigstick

As I said in the beginning the 7-08 is a great cartridge. Far be it from me to "throttle the 7-08".

Having said that I have to wonder how you can place the 30-06 in the same class as the 7-08. The difference in "killing power"(whatever that is) between the two is the same as the difference between the 30-06 and 338wm. I felt my cute little chart showed this relationship quite well. I am interested to hear which parts of my explanation you disagree with.

To be honest I was quite surprised to see how closely the difference between the 30-06 and 7-08 mirrored the difference between the 338wm and 30-06. I would like to hear what everyone thoughts about my comparisons of the 7-08, 30-06 and 338wm.

Jason

[This message has been edited by J Brown (edited 12-22-2001).]

Stick,

You began this entire debate with the statement that "the 30-06 is entirely usless" and then go on to describe it as "sedate and that it provides yeomen service". Then you go on to prop up the 7-08 and 308. Sorry but that shit aint flushin.. Theres barely enough difference worth debating in the whole lot. Personally I couldnt give a hoot about the length issue, but if Im strolling through the woods and happen upon something big and dangerous I garantee you my choice of the two would NOT be the 7-08, and in that same light Ill take the 06 with heavier bullets for elk type game.

So if you have a problem with the 06 then its your problem, if you feel its too sedate then maybe you should consider a magnum..

[This message has been edited by Wstrnhuntr (edited 12-22-2001).]

Wstrnhuntr,

I didn't say "the 30-06 is entirely useless",in this Thread. I mentioned in passing on another Thread,that it's greatest attribute,was as a basis for Wildcatting. That statement stands,how else would I have got 25-06Ackley brass(grin).

There really isn't much shit to flush,but it is obvious your reading comprehension could improve. You reinforce,my initial thrust of the Thread. The cartridges are equally capable.

The accuracy potential,lies in the 7-08. The 7-08 is of less ecoil. The 7-08 is housed in a shorter action. The 7-08 effectively utilizes barrels of shorter length. Barrel life is superior in the 7-08. The 7-08 can be had in a lighter rifle.

Though none of those attributes alone,is an earth shattering event. When weighed on the whole,it lends merit to the shorter of the two cartridges in this particular discussion.

I LIVE in the woods that house the big and dangeous critters(SE Alaska). I stipulated,numerous sentences ago,that neither the '06 nor the 7-08 are Brownie Guns of the first order. Certainly,both will work. Certainly,there are better choices.

I've no problem with the 30-06,that's why I shoot the 7-08 in preference. This discussion doesn't involve the "magnums". To comfort you,I've a couple of them in the huse,ranging from the 224WbyMag-375H&H Ackley Improved Mag.

I have a very good grasp of what works and why. The 7-08,is a prime example of how adequate capacity,coupled with very good bullets,will yield very predictable results.

Should you wish those same results,but prefer your case head stamped "30-'06",then you have that option available................

Brad,

You hit an Elk with the 7-08 and an X bullet and were disappointed?............

Bigstick

In hunting rifles the accuracy edge the 7-08 has over the 30-06 in only in the mind of the shooter, you may be able to find it in benchrest rifles but not sporters.

Less recoil, but 20% less power.

With ANY barrel length the 30-06 has more energy than a 7-08.

As far as barrel life the 7-08 uses less powder but also has a smaller bore. Any difference in barrel life would be very small. I would bet they are within 5% as far as barrel life is concerned. The 308win in a different story.

New Ultralight Arms can build a 30-06 that weighs about five pounds. How light do you want your rifles?

The 7-08 is a great round but it is only superior to the 30-06 in the minds of those who wish it to be.

Jason

[This message has been edited by J Brown (edited 12-22-2001).]

Been a good thread,this evening. Thus far,it has got me through 350pcs of 223Ackley brass,while I prime them.

I never said superior. My contention throughout,is that the two cartridges are on the same playing field,regarding class of Game.

What are you going to do with a 30-06,that can't be done with the 7-08? You simply reiterate,points I've continously made.

You are wrong,on the accuracy attrubutes/potential. The 7-08 will shoot smaller groups on the average,no secret there. It doesn't take a BR rifle,to discern that difference.

"Power" is a misnomer. Placement of a good bullet,is paramount in my estimation,regardless of exact chambering. Figuring the 165XLC BT at 2800fps and 140XLC BT at 2800fps,out of the '06 and 7-08 respectively,there is an amazing 51 foot lbs energy edge,in favor of the '06,at 600yds(1144 vs 1195). I can see,where that would sway legions of fans,to purchase the '06.

Jump up and down,scream and yell,they are the same class of cartridge. I simply prefer the more diminutive of the two. If you prefer your's stamped "30-06",have at it.

You make a good point,mentioning the confidence factor. The 7-08 is very easy to shoot well and extremely friendly to work with. It's overall demeanor,lends a great deal of confidence.............

Stick

Load those XLC s to the same pressure , and the 06 165 gr version can push 3000 fps or maybe better it a bit . That does put it in a somewhat different class , in my opinion .