If the deer is hit correctly and there is no exit wound, was the bullet a failure? ---Assuming the deer dies and is easily found.

Or are you happy with the terminal performance if it kills the deer quickly, regardless of an exit hole?

I would personally prefer an exit wound. If the deer died quickly the bullet did its job and I'd be happy.

What bullet? How fast was it going?

well it depends on where and what I'm hunting.

Sometimes I like for a bullet to expend all of it's energy on an animal, other times I want to punch through.

It also depends on where I plan to place the shot.

I shot a white tailed doe this weekend that weighed 130 pounds. I was using factory loaded .308 150 grain sst's.
She was facing me and the shot entered the left shoulder and broke 3 ribs(created a good lime size hole in the rib cage) and proceeded to tear up part of the heart. It was found by the last rib in the hide on the other side of the doe. It did not exit. Appears to have lost some of its jacket but did form a mushroom. I will weigh it to see how much weight was retained.
She ran about 75 yards and dropped. The fact that there was no exit wound would have left me having a hard time trying to find her because there was no blood trail. The bullet did the internal damage that afforded me the luxury of not having ot do that, but I would have preferred an exit wound.
Shot was at 50 yards

Always an exit wound. Whitetails can run a good distance with their heart destroyed. You cannot ever depend on anchoring a deer where you shoot them. Energy doesn't kill deer. Tissue damage does. A well built expanding bullet that plows completely through a deer will certainly increase the chances of a dead deer.

I always want a bullet tough enough to exit on any decent angle, then if I have to take a raking shot, I know I have a bullet that will make it to the vitals...

A bullet that does not exit on a decent angle will not shoot thru the animal lengthwise..Where I hunt elk in Idaho I use a 300 gr. Woodleigh or a 320 gr. 9.3x62 because in the black timber of the Salmon one only gets going away shots...

On big game, there should be full penitration on broadside or quartering shots, and enough penitration to reach the vitals on a Texas heart shot. On fur bearing game, you may want a frangible bullet that only makes one hole.

I always want an exit wound on broadside shots. Not so much worried about a blood trail since a bullet through the heart and or lungs leads to a quick enough kill for me that a blood trail is not required in the area I hunt. I just feel more confident in a bullet if it is exiting every time rather than stopping somewhere in the animal.

I shot a buck on tuesday broadside through the lungs, with the bullet exiting. Distance traveled was about 100 yards with a good blood trail.
I shot a doe on thursday. she was quartering towards me. The bullet was found in the rear leg. The bullet took out one lung, passed through the liver, stomach, and halfway through the leg without hitting bone. The doe dropped right there. distance traveled was 0 yards.
Both deer were shot with T/C 250 grain PTX and 90 grains 777.
I think it is hard to make any kind of conclusion on the issue of total penetration vs total energy
expended. Every animal is different. I think in general an exit wound is desirable, in case the animal runs any distance. Where I hunt, if the animal runs more than a hundred yards with little or no blood, you have a real job on your hands.

All Ive ever wanted is enough bullet for a broadside exit. That has been my criteria. For frontal shots I generally aim between the shoulders and going away the base of the neck gets the bead. But my prefered target is broadside just behind the shoulder.

This year I took a deer that was directly facing me. He was in buckbrush up to his chest. I aimed for the neck but didnt think to compensate for the grade of the hill. The .257 115 grain BT completly destroyed his lower jaw and lodged into the back of his skull. No exit there but it dropped him where he stood.

[ 11-23-2003, 21:02: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

If the bullet I'm using does not exit, I switch bullets. I tried many different bullets in a 270 and found very few that would exit reliably on deer. I switched (back) to 30-06 with 180 grain Hot-Cors, problem solved. They always exit.

Shock is good. "Temporary pulsating wound cavities" sound good too, I guess. This leads me to one of my favorite sayings: If you ain't got penetration, you ain't got nuthin'. This leads me to another of my favorite sayings: "There ain't many problems a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty aught six."

Live well, 2 holes are better than one.

I prefer the bullet to exit, from any angle. There have been times where I have shot a deer, broadside, double lung and the bullet didn't exit and the deer dropped right there. In that case I was happy but as many have said if it did run any distance, especially in thick cover I would rather have an exit (bleeder) hole. Using the proper Groove Bullet for the animal shot they will exit every time.

Don

I prefer exit wounds. I vote for using cartridges that have enough bullet penetration and "bone crushing" ability to allow me to take a shot on the quarry from any angle (and whether right on target or a little bit off) and still have the bullet exit almost regardless.

EKM

[ 11-24-2003, 01:08: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

It all depends what, and where I'm hunting. The one animal I always want an exit wound is on Bear! The bear can loose a lot of blood, and leave little trail to follow, blood, or tracks, because of his loose skin, and fat, and the areas where he is hunted, are usually in the deep woods, where wet moss on everything leaves little track to follow! Sometimes even a lot of blood is soaked up by wet moss, like that in the deep, misty woods in Canada. There you need all the help you can get!

I find the little whitetail can really travel after real good hits, even with some large calibers, and Elk are the same. Mule deer seem much less tenacious of life than the whitetail, or elk. If in open canyon country, I don't need a blood trail to follow them, and I couldn't care less if it goes through! In this country, it all boils down to, "DO YOU WANT TO KILL THEM, OR TRACK THEM?" Unless the terrane is not suited to tracking then the pass through has some value, but the main thing, in most of the country I hunt, what is needed is to put the bullet where it will kill the animal, nothing more! If hunting animals in a herd sittuation, then a bullet that ends up under the hide on the far side is best, to avoid hitting another of the herd!

i have yet to recover a nosler partition from any animal i have shot. they have all died very quickly. of the 7 elk i have shot none have run more than 30 yards. i dont think the results would have changed if the bullet had stopped in the animal, thus delivering more of its energy to the animal. i am confident that if i had to shoot at an extreme angle my bullet would reach the boiler room. i couldnt say that if the bullets were not completely penetrating.

I love those Failsafes, I've never found one after shooting it!

Mike

I'd rather have a exit wound. A bullet that exits may not do such great damage that it knocks a deer right off of its feet, but it will definitely kill the deer, and leave a blood trail in the event of a run. I've killed a few deer with .243s and .22-250s, which almost never exit. Unless the animal dropped in sight, I had a hard time finding them (never lost one, but I would have if I were less patient), because there was almost no blood trail.

Its amazing how far a heart shot deer can run. but they seem to run in a straight line.
If you use a large for caliber bullet and enough gun, this question becomes a none issue. I prefer an exit wound but if I had to make a choice between an exit or a bullet that dumps its energy inside the animal, I'd do without the exit.

I would prefer an exit wound also. In those cases where you may have to do some tracking, it can make a big difference if you are in tough terrain, with alot of vegetation. While I have been a ballistic tip fan in the past, now a days, I am headed more and more towards partitions, swift scirocco, etc. The scirocco on deer sized game will leave an exit wound, at least my experiences this year show that. I would like to try the Nosler bonded bullet in my 7 mag, but, to date, they only make it in a 160 grain bullet. I'm shooting partitions out of my 240 wby mag, and I am in the process of working up a load witht the 90 grain Barnes X bullet. The 100 grain partition did it's job and made an exit wound on a 175 Lb wild boar last spring. I am eager to try some of Barnes new Triple Shock X bullets, they may just be a real winner.

ALWAYS
ALWAYS
ALWAYS,
I always want a exit, thou it doesn't always happen.
Remember I grew up in Pa. and if a deer goes a 100yds it is lost to another " hunter "
I feel they are easier to track, leaking out both sides.

ED

For the "expend all energy inside the animal" crowd, consider that if your bullet exits at half the velocity it entered, you've dumped 3/4 of the bullet's kinetic energy in the animal. The general formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 x mass x velocity squared. A doubled velocity means 4x kinetic energy and, conversely, a halved velocity means 1/4 kinetic energy.

yes, exit wounds are desirable... 2 reasons

1- blood trailing, as many noted

2- pneumothorax... if there's a hole in the chest you have a "sucking chest wound"

with a hole in the chest, the diaphragm can't pull a partial vacuum, so the lungs can't fill, collapse, helps bring critter down regardless of how much damage there is to the organs

entry wounds tend to be small compared to exit, so a big exit helps

308tikka,

I prefer two holes for all of the reasons mentioned by others.

However, I find your experience with the SST very different from mine.

I hunted with my 7-08 this year using the 139SST. I shot a doe about the same size as yours, but a little further (about 75yrds which should not have made a difference). Hit her tight behind the shoulder and exited tight behind the shoulder far side, taking ribs on the way out (cannot remember if it took ribs on the way in). She ran about 75 yards with impressive blood trail.

Shot an antelope also with same load. Though the antelope is smaller, I hit it in the shoulder, breaking the onside upper leg bone, then some ribs in front brisket, then broke neck, then exited (I know it sounds like the Kennedy bullet, but it must have dropped its head and turned slightly when I fired. The antelope was ranged @ 190yrds.

I changed from Ballistic Tips to SST's because I thought the SST's would penetrate better which they have. Surprised that yours did not pass through, but I also noticed that you hit the stomach which can offer a fair amount of resistance if the deer is full.

Deke.

Hey DEKE,

Just a note of comment on the SST. I am a notorious Hater of the poly tipped exploders to start with but that said the SST is the toughest of the lot. The nosler BT is a horrible bullet for game much over a 150 lbs. The SST will let you side into mule dder/ caribou country but certianly not odd angle elk. My thoughts have always been why would I use a SST ( or BT, etc,,,)when there are so many better choices. The SST (really a V-MAX) is only slightly flatter shooting than the spire point. The interlock is much tougher. I have been on the demise of many deer with the SSt and BT and yes it works but there are times when a day was spent following a superficial wound.

ED

I've been using 150gr Nosler Partitions out of my 308 for whitetail for the last 6 years and have had 100% exits and not one of the deer I've shot has moved more than 20 feet after the shot.

I can't imagine using a better bullet. They open well in a coyote and yet still blow through even a tough wild hog with room to spare.

The old fashioned Nosler Partition.... The perfect hunting bullet... <grin>

$bob$

I am not happy with a bullet unless I get an exit but hey thats just me, unless it's a varmint gun ie. 22/250 Nos BT's etc.

I'll relay a bad story from this last weekend. I was deer hunting with my 338-06 loaded with 200 gr Nosler BT's at dark three pigs came by at maybe 20yds. I shot the largest one about 250lbs behind the shoulder. He was down at the shot and screamed like he was dying quick so I didn't follow up with another.About three seconds later he jumped up and was gone into a briar patch.I took out my flashlight and for the next half hour looked for sign. I could find no blood or anything of an exit wound.I know he's dead. I just needed something to track him with as the ground was very hard.I am going back this weekend loaded with 210 Partitions.I prefer an exit wound.

this is actually a couple questions

1: what did the bullet DO? a billion fragments (BT?) and no exit, then it's a bullet failure..

2: if the bullet retains 80%+ weight, then it could be a gunchoice failure... or the critter was just so big it was a bullet sponge.
for example. a 470 NE with solids, not exiting a hippo... not surprising...

a 270 with softs, not exiting a deer, gun choice failure...

3: also depends on the bullet.... barnes should exit, reminging corelocks and nosler BT's will probably not exit

in generaly, if you have less than 75% weight retention, IN ONE CHUNK then it's a bullet failure

jeffe

Yes, an exit wound (the bigger the better) is important because not every shot is perfect, not all animals, even with perfect shots, drop to the shot, and tracking is much easier with blood on the ground.

308 TIKKA,

For me, "YES"!! I want an exit wound every time, unless it's an elk or moose taken end to end, and only then can I be satisfied with no exit wound! -memtb

I think that ideally, a bullet should expend practically all of its available energy inside the animal. I don't care if the bullet has just enough remaing velocity to fall straight to the ground after exiting, an exit wound is always desirable for those times when our quarry doesn't drop on the spot. I took a nice 10 point buck opening day this fall with a frontal shot. He dropped in his tracks. I normally use 140gr Partitions from my 7-08AI since we can see some monstrous bucks in northern Missouri, but this year I used a Ballistic Tip that I had loaded up. There was no exit wound. As far as I'm concerned, though, the bullet did a perfect job. Had he run off into the dense timber for a couple hundred yards because he didn't know he was dead yet, I would have wanted a nice exit wound for the blood trail.

Yes. Absolutely. In my part of whitetail country there is never snow on the ground during the season, but there is plenty of red-to-brown leaves. The more blood there is on the ground, the better the tracking, when tracking is necessary.

BigIron

I hunted over 40 years,and never concerned myself with whether the bullet exited or not.My only concern was the bullet performance;quick kill.
I cannot agree with those who insist that exit wounds are more important then quick kills.The only bad bullet performance that I ever had personally was with the 180 grain Corelock in a 30'06.In that case,two bullets,about two inches apart,exited through both lungs of a spike buck;a classic broadside shot at 60 yards.He ran about 100 yards,and left little blood to follow.The bullets performed like full metal patched ones.I much prefer the Hornaday Interlock,which is NOT guarenteed to exit,but will expand and kill quickly. It does usually exit on broadside shots.
I do agree with Atkinson,that if a bullet exits regularly on broadside shots,that it will penetrate sufficiently on long angle shots.Several others,posting here,seemed to agree with that.
Stated another way;an exit wound is only good if the bullet expanded and killed the deer first.
Frank

Exit Hole every time.

I want the bullet to blow in, expand and then blow out, leaving a blood trail the worst eye could follow. On Deer, if you don't get an exit hole, you either shot him front to back, or back to front, or don't have much rifle. On Deer, my 30-30 will blow through on a double lung shot, but may not on a shoulder shot, within 100 yards. Anything less than that is not enough for me, whether it be the wrong rifle or bullet. On Deer I use a 30-30 in thick woods, and a .257 Wby in the bean fields. ----- On Elk sized game and larger, I want my rifle to be able to blow a bullet through both shoulders, leaving a blood trail the anyone could follow without snow on the ground. Just my two cents worth. Good shooting.

I want a bullet to exit, because you never know what kind of shot angle will be presented. friends of mine shoot small caliber guns that never exit, and they have good luck mostly, by taking close shots and good placement. But they have also lost game that way, so I want a heavy bullet that expands some and penetrates thru and thru.

Good luck and good shooting,
Eterry

I like my bullet to stop in the skin on the far side on broad side shots on moose.

Johan

I prefer an exit wound so that I'll have a better bloodtrail to follow, but it's not mandatory.

�308_TIKKA� I would not consider having no exit wound a failure, but I prefer my bullet to go through both lungs on a broad side shot and exit. I shot a deer with a 30-06 at approximately 18 feet straight through the heart from a tree stand. The deer ran about 200 yards before dropping. Upon field dressing the deer I found that the heart had been shot through almost dead center and was in 2 pieces. Since then I have went for lung shots my deer don't run as far and have a better blood trail to follow. I consider this to be a more humane treatment of the deer. You might consider Nozler partition bullets they retain most of there weight and are in my opinion the best bullet. My friend shot a deer in the front chest and came out the back leg traveling full length of the deer. Now I agree this is over kill but his deer dropped dead instantly and he did not have to look for it.

�Bucktail� I have heard the term Texas heart shot before what does it mean?

Swede44mag