I've shot the 30/06,300 win mag and the .338 win mag at numerous animals including elk. Unless you're shooting beyond 300 yards,the differance in performance between the 06 and the 300win mag are very small. I hit a bull moose in the ass with a 30/06 using a 180gr failsafe from a measured 225 yards away and ended up cutting the bullet from under the hide of its front shoulder. The 06 is no slouch,and I believe that the 300's need at least 200gr bullets and ranges beyond 300 yards, before a noticeable edge appears in favor of the 300 on large animals,the exception would be the use of 180gr failsafes. From my experience,the .338 win mag is much more decisive on elk and larger animals then either the 06 or 300. The .338 burns the same amount of powder as a 300 and kills much better then the 300.With bullets of .225grs or larger,you don't even need to shoot premium bullets in the .338,to get full penetration on elk size game. I've shot elk length wise out to 400 yards with 250gr core lokts and have yet to recover a bullet. On deer and antelope, I'd much rather have a 30/06 or .270, these animals simply are not difficult to kill and magnum recoil isn't needed. The bottom line is,anything that the 30/06 can't put down reliably,for the most part isn't going to be put down with 300 any better and if you want real performance you need to step up in bullet diameter,weight and good velociety,the .338 does this. The biggest downfall of the 300 mag,are the people who use it,most are speed freaks and think that the 150gr bullet is the best.

AMEN

My point on all this is that I went from an 06 to a 338 to find that the trajectory past the range I'll use an 06 is less than satisfactory and that bullet expansion is less than reliable at 450 yards. I bought a 26 inch barreled 300 win mag used only reloads and found a good elk killer to 450 yards complete with a flatter trajectory than the 06 or 338 and I get excellent bullet performance with less recoil. So from 350 yards to 450 yards the 300 win mag is better for those 10% of the time long shots.

If you can't connect on elk out to 450 yards with a .338,then you're not going to with a .300 either. I can easily get 2900fps with the 225gr bullets and that's plenty flat for elk at the ranges you mention..

Guys,
The long and the short of this comparison is this: The 300magnum will kill equally as good to 250yds as the 30/06 on elk sized or smaller game. When ranges become long and/or the animals become larger it has a definite advantage over anything smaller.
The ultra long shot(350+yds) is a reality in today's hunting, just as the bad angle shot is too. Too many scenarios can be written out to make those shots a viable proposition for many hunters, so you cannot dismiss them as irrational. Is it the 10% Socrates mentions? It's a lot more often than that where I hunt. The 300mag. makes that shot on elk or other large game a much more definite proposition than a 30/06. Not just because it makes the hitting easier, because it hits a lot harder and has the beans to give the needed penetration.
As for going to the 375 to get more power, no thanks. Rainbow trajectory and more recoil isn't the answer, plus it is totally out of place on antelope or deer hunts, IMO.
As for pressure, if you're loading that 30/06 to 2800+fps with a 180gr bullet, how much pressure do you think you are loading to? I guarantee you it's just as much as I load my 300Wby to, maybe more!
So, is the 300mag. and all of it's so-called extra baggage worth it? Depends upon who you're talking to and what they want the rifle to do. If all you're doing is chasing 100lb whitetail deer around in the brush then likely it isn't necessary or needed. If antelope and mule deer are all you hunt a 270 will serve better than either the '06 or a 300mag. But, if you hunt all of these plus elk, big bear, moose and African game in any number of terrains and want just one rifle to do it all, the 300mag beats the 30/06 every day and twice on Sunday.

If the .300 is equal to the '06 up to 250 yards - then I'm in good shape, because I won't shoot much further than that.

Guess I was right, the '06 will do all the .300 will do.......for me, anyways.

[This message has been edited by Johnny Ringo (edited 03-03-2002).]

John S,

I said the 30-06 will do "almost" 2900 fps with the 180 gr bullet. I did not say it will do a honest 2900 fps be that instrumental or muzzle velocity.

Of course for specialty uses there are special cartidges but very very few "hunt all over the 48 states" good greif John. Most of us can only get a weekend away for hunting!

For the first rifle or your last the 30-06 is still king. The recoil velocity from these magnums really hurts most real people John. And it's not the "shooter" it's the kick. In fact the 30-06 is a bit much.

In any case the market has spoken. Very few people buy or shoot magnums.

I have all of these guns.

Allen Day, Run some numbers for us. How much more velocity can you get with a .300 Win Mag over a 30-06? and how many yards does this extend the point blank range?

I see the velocity difference as 200 fps and with a 10" dia kill zone the difference in point blank range to be 18 yards! I used the Nosler Partition 180 gr spitzer.

Who the heck wants to carry around a long heavy rifle when you can carry a featherweight in 30-06. I know who! Remember Jac Weller?

Don-
We'll just have to agree to disagree! I think that there are a number of people who hunt more than just around home on weekends. And if around home on weekends is in the great mountains of the west, the 300 is better.
A featherweight '06 loaded up to the gills is no pushover in the recoil dept. In fact, my own M70fwt '06 hurts me as much as my 300Wby. So, if one can learn to shoot a lightweight '06, a 300mag is definitely within their abilities with some practice. The extra pound and 4" of barrel don't bother me at all. Again, it ain't the caliber's fault that the shooter can't handle it. As for a first big game rifle, I don't think either one is a good choice, especially for a youngster, a woman or a grown man who has little shooting experience.
"Very few people buy and shoot magnums" is a totally inaccurate statement. I have been in an awful lot of hunting camps in the last 30yrs, and in all honesty I have only seen a 30/06 used by another hunter on a very few occasions, and those were some 20 odd years ago! I've seen a lot of 270s, some 338s, 7mm Rem. mags and recently some 7STWs. But far and away the most common chambering has been the 300mag, either Wby or Win. You all here on these forums can believe what you want about how popular and great the '06 is, but the guns I've seen in the field don't reflect it. Loading die sales are also a good indicator, the 7mm mag and 300mag are in the top ten every year, so there must be somebody shooting them.
The old warhorse isn't a bad caliber, but today it just doesn't rule like it did 50yrs ago. Get around enough hunting camps and see for yourself.

BTW, I remember Jack Weller and his tale of lugging around a 460Wby on a Kodiak bear hunt!

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-03-2002).]

What I did not get at 450 yards was proper bullet expansion from the 338. I did use 250 grain sierra boattails and this bullet does not shoot as flat as the 300 win mag does with 200 grain speer spitzers over a full load of H1000. I felt using a 225 grain bullet was defeating the purpose of a bigger cartridge as I can use 220's in an 06. Your 338 might have been able to attain 2900 but mine would not quite get 2800 with the 225 grain bullets. But my 06 would get 2600 with the 220 grain bullets which comes close enough for me at ranges under 250 yards. The Hornady 220 is excellent for this sort of work and really makes the 06 look good.

Jac Weller was better known for using a bull bbl'd M-70 in the Rockies. I think it was in 300 H&H.

The 30-06 is king because a average Joe can own just that one rifle and hunt for 10 years in the hills here East of the river and then drive out West one day with just that rifle and hunt with it just fine. For the Elgin Gates and big oil guys they can get nominated for the Weatherby award. Most of us can't afford that John.

If two men came to the range to shoot a match at 300 yards and one had a .300 Weatherby and the other a 30-06 Springfield I would bet on the Springfield man any day.

"it's not the rifles fault" What does that really mean? Either you can do it or you can't and those .300 Mag's kick like heck. I am with Les Bowman on recoil and real results.

Here is a word from the master. "For sheep hunting I would rather have a .270 than a 30/06 and I also prefer a .270 for antelope hunting and open country deer hunting. For big soft skinned stuff that shoots back, such as lions and Alaskan brown bear, I'd rather have a .375. For varmints I'd take something like the 22/250 or the 6mm Remington, and for deer in heavy brush I like a light semi-automatic and I would use a round nosed .308 bullet. But for all kinds of jobs in the open and in timber, on big animals and small, at long range and short, there isn't anything any more versitle than this perpetual best seller, the turn of the century .30/06"

from "The Hunting Rifle" by Jack O'Connor.

This says it all. Use what you want. But for the first rifle and the last rifle the 30/06 is the king.

Don,
"What does it mean" tells me you aren't really interested in what I am saying OR the truth. It means just what I said, which is poor marksmanship is not the rifle or caliber's fault, it's the shooter's fault.
It is his/her fault for not practicing enough and/or choosing a caliber outside of their level of recoil tolerance. Simple as that. Don't blame the rifle for your own shortcomings, either practice and learn to handle the recoil or buy something with less of it. Obviously you don't like or cannot handle the recoil of your 300 so you prefer the 30/06. Fine by me, but your arguments don't prove you're right and I'm wrong.
A number of the folks I see each year in hunting camps come from east of the big river, just as I do. There aren't any big oil tycoons, Weatherby Award winners or other super rich folks. Does one need to be in their class to make a guided hunt every so often?
You know, today we as a society take our recreation a lot more seriously than generations past did. Leisure time is valuable and in short supply. Hunting in particular is not the casual affair it once was. Good hunting is not just outside the back door for most of us. If we are going to spend the time and money to hunt succesfully, we demand the best tools for the job at hand. We research our choices more diligently and want whatever caliber will allow us to harvest our game under the widest range of conditions.
Why do you assume that all of the average Joe hunters live east of the big river? Or that they only make one western hunt every ten years? Aren't there any in Missouri or Arkansas or Texas or Minnesota? The guys I know in those states all are predominately whitetail hunters, and they shoot 270s and 7mags for the most part.
Not all western hunting is guided, quite the contrary! I know a group of guys from my home town that go almost every year, usually for deer/antelope but now and then they try for an elk tag. There are lots of hunters from back east that do the same thing.
As for the master, those words were written many years ago and I have just as much, if not more of an issue with them now as I had then, just as I took issue with Elmer Keith when he called the 270 " A damned adequate coyote rifle."

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-03-2002).]

John S,

I have owned a hunting camp since 1964. My dad hunted there with me then and now my buddies. Last fall there were 2 30-06's carried on opening day and one .243 Win..

That's what folks use here. A .300 mag would be silly. They are heavy, clumsy, slow and hard to aim well. In fact around here the .300 Weatherby is a joke. And that is why the 30/06 is king.

Don't start reading in what I can shoot and can't shoot John.

So there you have it. John S has a issue with Jack O'Connor.

Like it or not,we are in a magnum craze, the last one occured in the 1960's and just like the previous craze,this one will phase itself out also. With all these new short magnums and ultra magnums around,anyone with a non magnum is undergunned for anything but varmints. The factories depend on this new growth to stay in business and the majority of it is nothing but good marketing.
The fact is,the majority of people shooting a magnum,are shooting it in an effort to gain confidence. They made a piss poor shot with one of the 06 based cartridges and instead of blaming their own lack of shooting skill,the cartridge is at fault. They went from a rifle that they seldom shot and probably didn't even sight in properly,which had moderate recoil. To a rifle that costs even more to shoot,has even more recoil and they'll even shoot it less.
I have no doubt that todays hunting camps are full of hunters with magnums. I also have no doubt that the vast majority of these guys can't shoot to save their ass,so their toting a magnum, does nothing to sway my views on the use of non magnums. Talk to any guide who has spent time in the business,they'll have a ton of stories about hunters who can't even shoot, regardless of the rifle they were using. Most of these hunters base there choice of caliber on what ever ad they last read in a hunting mag.

I don't believe that the 30/06 and its offspring were the end of all cartridge development,but they are so well balanced for the majority of hunting,that very marginal gains in performance are achieved by using one of 300 mags.

As for game requiring longer and more difficult shots,then in the past.This can be attributed to several things. The most common is pure laziness on part of the hunter. Why get off my fat ass when I can just wing shots from right here,why should I hunt. The vast majority of todays trophy elk are killed at shorter ranges then ever before,since most hunting for quality bulls take place in heavy timber. I spend alot of time hunting elk and from what I've seen over the years,the vast majority of big bulls are killed well within the effective range of the 30/06.

These forums give a false sense of what the majority of hunters are using. You end up with a few gun junkies,voicing opinions and these opinions get taken as the voice of the majority,when in reality it's reversed.

Rainbow trajectory:?????
Federal
Load # Height of bullet trajectory in inches
above or below line of sight if zeroed at � yards.
Sights 1.5 inches above bore line.
Average Range Long Range
50
Yds. 100
Yds. 200
Yds. 300
Yds. 50
Yds. 100
Yds. 200
Yds. 300 9.4inches
Yds. 400 28 inches
Yds. 500 58 inches?
Yds.

http://www.federalcartridge.com/andex2.html

How does this compare to a 300 Mag?

Course, the bullet is a premium hunting bullet...

gs

The really astonishing thing about this thread is not a thing has been said about that poster boy phoney the 7MM rem mag. It is interesting to see the back and forth here contains the 06, 300 and 338 which puts the 06 in pretty good company.

Don,
Yes, I have an issue with old Jack, but the 30/06 issue is about all I have with him on the negative side. I also stated I have/had one with Elmer Keith concerning the 270.
And yes, I have one with you or anyone else who blames a particular cartridge for someone's bad shooting. That's like blaming the gun for someone's murder, the shooter killed the victim, the gun was just the chosen instrument. I can't help it if some of these yahoos can't hit a bull in the ass with their magnums, they probably couldn't with their 30/06s either.
And now you're telling me that because you deem the 30/06 perfect in your neck of the woods it must be the king in everyone else's? How would you know that?
Why is a 300mag. heavy, clumsy, slow and hard to aim well? Maybe it's just ones you have been around. Mine isn't any of those things. It has a 24" barrel, 2-8x scope and weighs 8.5 pounds field ready and is indistinguishable from my 30/06 FWT either in my hands or on my shoulder. My other 300, the "joke" 300Wby, has a 26" barrel and weighs all of 1/4 pound more. I don't find it any more of a nuisance in the brush than the others, and it's been in plenty of it!
I see it one way, you see it another. My own experience tells me what and whom to believe, obviously your's does as well.

Socrates-
Here are the figures from Nosler's #4 manual for the 30cal 200gr Partition. I load my 300Wby to 3050fps, drops as follows:

300yd zero.

100yds 3.5" high
200yds 4.1" high
300yds zero range
400yds 9.8" low
500yds 26.5" low

Muzzle Energy 4267ft-lbs
100yd energy 3728
200yd energy 3248
300yd energy 2819
400yd energy 2435
500yd energy 2094

There's the numbers, and these do not figure in wind drift, which I assure you is substantially more for the 375. The velocities I used are what most rifles so chambered are capable of, not what the ammo companies like to claim.

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-03-2002).]

RKT300-
You're right, the 30/06 is in good company and is a damned fine cartridge, no one but a fool with no field experience would think or say otherwise! Between it and the 300 and 338 you probably have the best 3 hunting cartridges on the market for general duty hunting.
Is any one of them the "king" or the "best" for everyone or even a majority of the hunters? No, I don't think so because there are too many variables involved. The hunter's shooting ability, his preferences for rifle style, the terrain he typically hunts in, etc all influence the choice and eventual outcome.

John:
Do you have figures for the 375, with let's say a gameking, zeroed at 300 yards?

I'm not arguing that the 300 doesn't have it's place.

I think the 375 makes a darn good plans rifle, but I can't find ballistic tables that zero at 300, and our range is a 200 yard range.

To zero at 300, I guess I should be about 4 inches high at 200?

gs

Socrates-
Can't help you with the Sierra bullet as I don't have their manual. In my Nosler manual they show 5.6" high at 100yds and 6.5" high at 200yds for a 300yd zero, using their 300gr bullet at 2600fps. That's a pretty lofty midrange trajectory, would make overshooting a distinct possibility.

Funny thing John. Just ran ballistics tests on the 240 grain Hv, at 3150, out of a 24 inch barrel, zeroed at 300 yards. Max specs from Gerards site:

The computer kicks back a

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 3157.5 5312.6 3.37 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0.000
100 2939.1 4603.1 3.13 3.2 0.6 17.3 0.098
200 2731.0 3974.5 2.91 4.0 2.5 36.0 0.204
300 2532.7 3418.2 2.70 -0.0 5.9 56.0 0.318
400 2343.7 2927.1 2.50 -9.4 10.9 77.7 0.442
500 2163.2 2493.7 2.31 -25.1 17.6 101.2 0.575
600 1990.1 2110.5 2.12 -48.3 26.3 126.6 0.719
700 1825.8 1776.5 1.95 -80.3 37.3 154.3 0.877
800 1671.4 1488.6 1.78 -122.7 50.8 184.6 1.049
900 1527.5 1243.4 1.63 -177.7 67.2 217.6 1.236
1000 1396.4 1039.1 1.49 -247.5 86.6 253.8 1.442
table that shows about identical drop marks for the 375, as it does for the 300 caliber, you used, 9 inches at 400, and 25 inches
at 500.

I'm kind of curious about the 265. Running that next.

Also note, for a 240HV, it only has to be 4 inches high at 200, I suspect the same as the 300 Mag.

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

I guess if you really want a flat shooting 375 round, go with a 400 yard zero:

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 3157.5 5312.6 3.37 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0.000
100 2939.1 4603.1 3.13 5.6 0.6 17.3 0.098
200 2731.0 3974.5 2.91 8.6 2.5 36.0 0.204
300 2532.7 3418.2 2.70 7.0 5.9 56.0 0.318
400 2343.7 2927.1 2.50 -0.0 10.9 77.7 0.442
500 2163.2 2493.7 2.31 -13.4 17.6 101.2 0.575
600 1990.1 2110.5 2.12 -34.2 26.3 126.6 0.719
700 1825.8 1776.4 1.95 -63.9 37.3 154.3 0.877
800 1671.4 1488.6 1.78 -104.0 50.8 184.6 1.049
900 1527.5 1243.3 1.63 -156.5 67.2 217.6 1.236
1000 1396.4 1039.1 1.49 -224.1 86.6 253.8 1.442

between 6-8 inches high 100-300, easy to figure, zero at 400, and drops 13 inches at 500...

gs

265, zeroed at 300, gives similar numbers to the lighter bullets, yet retains way more energy:

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 2955.7 5140.1 3.48 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0.000
100 2789.2 4577.5 3.28 3.7 0.5 18.4 0.104
200 2629.0 4066.7 3.09 4.3 2.2 37.9 0.215
300 2474.7 3603.5 2.91 -0.0 5.0 58.6 0.333
400 2326.3 3184.1 2.74 -10.0 9.2 80.6 0.458
500 2183.2 2804.4 2.57 -26.5 14.7 104.0 0.591
600 2044.5 2459.4 2.41 -50.3 21.9 129.0 0.733
700 1911.1 2149.0 2.25 -82.4 30.7 155.7 0.885
800 1783.6 1871.9 2.10 -124.0 41.5 184.3 1.047
900 1662.5 1626.2 1.96 -176.6 54.3 215.0 1.222
1000 1547.9 1409.8 1.82 -241.8 69.3 247.9 1.409

Zeroed at 400, this looks like a great, long range bullet:

Range Velocity Energy Momentum Drop Windage Lead Time
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs) (lbs-sec) (inches) (inches) (inches) (sec)
0 2955.7 5140.1 3.48 -1.5 0.0 0.0 0.000
100 2789.2 4577.5 3.28 6.2 0.5 18.4 0.104
200 2629.0 4066.7 3.09 9.4 2.2 37.9 0.215
300 2474.7 3603.5 2.91 7.5 5.0 58.6 0.333
400 2326.3 3184.1 2.74 -0.0 9.2 80.6 0.458
500 2183.2 2804.4 2.57 -14.0 14.7 104.0 0.591
600 2044.4 2459.3 2.41 -35.2 21.9 129.0 0.733
700 1911.1 2148.9 2.25 -64.8 30.7 155.7 0.885
800 1783.6 1871.8 2.10 -104.0 41.5 184.3 1.047
900 1662.4 1626.1 1.96 -154.0 54.3 215.0 1.222
1000 1547.9 1409.8 1.82 -216.7 69.3 247.9 1.409
Oh: The 375 looks like it has 20-25% more muzzle energy, and the further down range we get, the more retained energy the 375 has, with about the same flight path...
at 500, 2094 against 2800 something.

I'm not much worried about that, since I know a 375 is going to flatten whatever it hits, at that range. Wonder if you can say the same about the 300 mag?

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

Socrates-
You know the 375 will flatten whatever it hits? Since you have stated previously you have not shot a single thing with a 375? Interesting. How do you really know? Have you seen any game shot at long range, or any range, with a 375?
I have shot a number of game animals with the 300mag, from 20lb duikers to 2000lb eland. Ranges have varied from 25 feet to well over 400yds. They're all on my wall now, so I would say the old 300 worked. I can also tell you in all honesty I have never lost a single animal I hit with one. I have missed a few though.
And just to give you another set of numbers, I have taken the 260gr Nosler data from their manual. If started at 2800fps it will have 1638ft-lbs of energy remaining at 500yds. If sighted in at 300yds it will have a 41" drop at 500yds.

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-04-2002).]

John:
OK:
I guess your point is the 300 Mag is the limit of what you feel comfortable with recoil wise, and, it kills pretty much everything you hit with it.

Your argument for the 300 Mag is that it gives you more variety, and fires flatter then a 30-06. Fine. You pay in brass and powder, but not much.

Since I have a 30-06, I figured a 300 mag was a waste.

Want more power, get a bigger caliber.

As for this comment:
"You know the 375 will flatten whatever it hits? Since you have stated previously you have not shot a single thing with a 375? Interesting."
I said,
"I'm not much worried about that, since I know a 375 is going to flatten whatever it hits, at that range. "

I was just using your own argument. If you say a 300 mag will kill just about anything,
then what's the result going to be with a much bigger bullet, considerably heavier, with much more retained energy?

Not to mention the 375 has been sort of famous as one of the best game getting rifles in the world, for about 100 years, but don't let that get in the way of your arguing...

Besides, in North America, the 30-06 is considered plenty for all game, and since we don't have brown bear around here, and no elk, it's highly unlikely anything I have to fire at will not go down, when hit with a 375, unless all the elephants, and Cape buffalo escape, or, the killer whales from Marineworld become land capable in the near future

Frankly, my 45 Colt, with 325 LBT's at 1550
is enough for anything in the Northern 48...
Which, by the way, I am going to go give a work out.

Gone shooting.

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-04-2002).]

Don Martin29 wrote:
"On another forum Larry Benoit the famed big buck hunter from Vermont posted. All were in awe. Of course he suggested a 760 pump, peep sights and the 180 gr in the 30-06."

I believe that some of the Benoits use 270s. Personal preference I guess. I don't think there's is a fig of a difference between 30-06, 270, 308 and whatever 300 mags there are, at least for hunting in close cover. I have two rifles for deer hunting, a 308 and a 30-06 and use them both each year depending on weather conditions. The open sighted 308 in rain/snow and the scoped '06 in "fair" weather.

By the way, what is the URL for the "other" forum you mentioned in your first post? (Or is that taboo here?)

DP

I'm not sure if it's is still true or not, but I believe the ammo manufacturers sell more 30-06 than any other centerfire caliber (possibly they sell more 30-30). And I believe 30-06 is still the biggest selling reloading die. This was true a few years ago anyway and may still be the case.

Interesting conversation... it still doesn't change the fact that the 270 is better on deer and antelope on the plains and the 338 has more authority on elk. To me, the 300's combine (in a compromise) the trajectory of the 270 and the authority of the 338... that's a damn fine compromise which the 30-06 still can't match.

Brad Amundson

The 300 Mag looks like the gun to get the 240 Grain Sierra HPBT Matchkings to work.

Or, a RUM 300. For long range, specialty anything shooting, that bullet would be really hard to beat, in the Northern 48.

I suspect that this may well be in the max recoil range for most shooters.

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

"308 dia. 240 gr. HPBT Match .308 240 .361 .711 @ 2150 fps and above
.702 between 2150 and 1800 fps
.685 @ 1800 fps and below"

John: Your argument is really poor. The above bullet is sufficent reason for justifying a 300 magnum, or 300 RUM.

What kind of velocity can you get, using this bullet, out of your 300 Mag?

While not a 375, it's still one heck of a combo for long range, flat shooting, that would still, at under 200 yards, kill pretty much anything.

gs

------------------
I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

Oh, yes, as for the 270 freaks: If you took a 300 Mag, and loaded a 110-130 grain bullet, at max velocity, what would that be, and do you think it would work well on deer???

I got 3300 out of a 3006, with a 130 grain bullet, and 26 inch barrel. I strongly suspect that would do in most deer, and, even though the BC isn't that great, at deer ranges, it would still have plenty of energy to get through,,,...

gs

Brad, your point of comparison is very astute! I agree......

Don, depending on which two rifles you're comparing, with identical bullets a .300 Winchester provides somewhere between 20 and 50 yards more point blank hitting range than does the .30-06. Enough extra sure-hit range to spell the difference between a hit and a miss.... Of course, if you load a .300 Weatherby to its potential, the gap gets even wider.

But there's more to the story than increased range. The .300's deliver more energy all all ranges as well. That's another one of those significant points of comparison the '06 guys love to side-step. The claim is "you're only getting another twenty yards of increased range!" No big deal, right?

Not quite. I'm being generous in favor of the .30-06 here, but if you load a .30-06 with 180 gr. bullets to 2900 fps. (I've never seen a .30-06 that fast, but I'll take your word that yours is) and then load the same, exact bullet in the .300 Winchester to 3100 fps., the .300 delivers more energy at all distances, and by a significant margin. For example the .300 Winchester will deliver the same energy at 400 yards as the .30-06 does at 300 yards. So you've not only increased point-blank range significantly, you've increased energy delivery by over 100 yards across the board! Now if you don't think that's significant, you're in denial, pure and simple..........

AD

[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 03-04-2002).]

Socrates-
Please tell me what make/model you have in 30/06. Have you had it re-barreled? I'm curious because you keep referring to the 26" barrel and I wasn't aware that anyone made a 30/06 with one.
Tell you what, why don't you buy a chronograph and loading equipment, then go out and perform some shooting tests with all of the stuff you mentioned. I'm sure everyone here will be very interested in your results.

[This message has been edited by John S (edited 03-04-2002).]

I knew I shouldn't have started this thread!

Dogger: Oh but yes! This is what these forums are all about! Besides, I agree the 30-06 is "king". Very close to optimal for a variety of conditions.

Interarms Mark X, Mauser action, 26 inch barrel. Bought in about 1982 or so.

It's in the shop, being rebedded, possible retrigger, and, a new recoil pad.

gs

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

Reloading stuff is next, patience John, patience.

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I love 45
santilli@singleaction45.com

I keep hearing all about this extra energy that the 300 has over a 30/06. I would hope the 300 has more energy,its burning anywhere from 10 to 20 grains more powder then the 06. The only time that energy is even needed is with shots over 350 yards and if you're shooting at elk you'd be better off with a .338 win mag. The real reason most people shoot the 7 mag and 300 mags,is because they want to shoot a magnum but can't handle a .338 or larger.

My 30-06 Classic Super Grade is probably the most accurate rifle I own. Killed my Mule Deer with it this year using a 150gr Partition. One shot - dead deer. Still, I don't shoot it as much as I used to, not because it doesn't do the job but just because I like variety. My current favorite is a Super Grade in .338. In fact, I may never use it in a situation where the 30-06 wouldn't have worked about as well but so what? If we all just bought 30-06s and did away with the rest of the calibers for all big game hunting the animals would still fall and the freezers would still be full - the process just wouldn't be as much fun!