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Howdy all, Here's a scenario for you to ponder. Several hunters are on an elk hunt, a cow is spotted jumping into a timbered ravine in a series of fingers coming off of a mesa. One of the hunters(d) chooses to timber bash and try to push the cow elk out of the gulley to the others. One vehicle with two licensed hunters(a and b) travels down the ridge and the hunters place themselves along the top of a ridge. A third(c) goes several hundred yards up hill to a saddle on the same ridge to watch the end of the timber, he is out of sight of the others. After a few minutes, the hunter(c) in the saddle hears two shots, turns and sees two bulls about 250 yds away between the two groups of hunters and running away, up the next draw. There is another shot from the ridgetop(a and b). The saddle hunter(c) looks at the two elk and sees that one is limping, wounded in the rear hock and they are nearing timber and the top of the opposing ridge. He(c) quickly shoots the wounded elk and a moment later the other bull falls to a shot from (a or b). The two groups(a-b and c)are not within sight of the other. The hunters gather and find that the previously wounded one is a large bull that needs dispatched, which the hunter(c) that shot him from the saddle does. The second bull is dead, it turns out that the hunter(a)that shot the second bull was also the one that wounded the first. My questions are as follows- what would you have done if you were the hunter in the saddle (c)? Would you have shot at the wounded bull? After hearing 3 shots, knowing one of the other hunters(b)is a fairly inexperienced shooter and that a wounded animal was close to escape? Is that bull the prize of the shooter(c) from the saddle? or the original shooter(a), even though he killed the other elk? Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | ||
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Wounded animal trumps all bar safety. Hock wound is not immediately lethal so the initial shooter would never have recovered the animal or rack. Trophy goes to the first person to make a shot to the vitals which is c) It all sounds a bit hairy and not my cup of tea! | |||
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I would say shooter a or b when he shot elk b or c used his tag and had no claim on elk a. Therefore shooter c making the killing shot on elk a or was it elk c was entitled to the prize. First lethal shot takes the animal, is how we do it. NRA Life Member since 1976 philny1@zoominternet.net 877 485-6270 Visa/MC accepted , plus 3% We have to save the Earth, only planet with beer!! "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". Thomas Jefferson | |||
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In Wyoming no one may kill an animal for another, so who ever killed the animal it belongs to. If another hunter in the group does not have a valid elk tag he can not kill the wounded animal. I hunted with the Game Warden last year had had this explained to me | |||
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by the sounds of that group i think i would have run like hell the other direction | |||
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Legally and practically are two different things, here. Legally, one MUST make reasonable efforts to recover any wounded game. That means that once you connect, you are done shooting until you are done following up. Period. In practice, if an animal is wounded, I don't stop shooting until I'm out of ammo, and I'll sort out the tags later. However, that is often illegal. A local game warden got fired over this exact thing last year, so my response will always be "I tried to administer a coup de grace, but I missed). JMO, Dutch. Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog. | |||
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A couple of years ago in Colorado, I had a wounded cow elk come by me, she had her right front leg nearly severed at the elbow, obviously a low miss/hit, and I watched as she limped by. It was excrutiating to let her go, but I had no tag for a cow and knew that if I had been a warden, I'd have never believed that the hunter killed the cow to "put her out of her misery". It still bothers me. On your scenario, the shooter that shot two elk gets turned in, and the other two guys get an elk apiece. My $.02 | |||
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Hunter A needs his rifle taken away until he can pass an offhand shooting test and a written test on the ethics of persuing wounded game. Hunter C owns the bull he put down, BUT needs to find a different bunch guys to hunt around, or hunt by himself. Things can really get messy around a bunch of bull crazed , spray and pray weekend warriors, I try to avoid that situation if at all possible. | |||
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Hi all, thanks for the comments. Here is a couple of clarifiers. All hunters had tags. Hunter A only shot elk B after seeing that elk A had been downed by hunter C. There was no crossfire situation, think of an isosceles triangle with the elk at the apex. Hunter A is a very good shot, just hit by a bad case of big bull fever. I was hunter C. I'm just think I shot too soon and took hunter A's bull and feel crappy about it. I didn't know it if it was hunter A or B(the youngster) that was shooting, just that it was a wounded animal nearing escape. Thanks again. Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | |||
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Staying cool under pressure has a lot to do with becoming a good hunter along with be a good shot. | |||
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I also agree with butchloc Swede --------------------------------------------------------- NRA Life Member | |||
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we all know that things are perfect only in the magazines, on the TV shows and especially on the internet forums.. hopefully, all hunters involved can get together, analyze the SNAFUs and learn from them. next year, the added experience will be valuable. | |||
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I think you'll find that in most states the hunter who made the killing shot owns the elk. My dad and his friend had one of their elk taken away by this very situation a few years ago. They jumped two legal bulls. One dropped pretty close to where they were jumped. The other made it down the mountian and about a third of the way up the other side, which contained a road down the middle. A group of road hunters heard the shooting and high tailed it up the mountain. The second elk was down but still had his head up. The road hunter jumped out of his truck and ran up to the elk and shot it with a handgun, then turned around to my dad's buddy and helled I got the killing shot it's my elk. Well, when it was all said and done the sheriff was involved and the road hunter got to keep the elk. The next day the game warden came by camp and told my dad's hunting party that if that ever happens again with that particular group of road hunters specifically ask for his presence. I guess he had been trying to nail those guys for years. Don't know if he ever got them or not. Sorry for the rant but the killing shot rules in Colorado. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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Hunter "A" shot two bulls (presumably unintentionally, but it is not clear from your narrative). He should thank his lucky stars he has a friend present to claim the bull he wounded, otherwise he has taken the second bull illegally. Hunter "C" is apparently fretting over claiming a large bull which his friend, Hunter "A" initially wounded. Hunter "A's" inital wounding shot was apparently not fatal. Hunter "B" had a duty to attempt to keep the larger elk from escaping, which he did with a shot that brought the elk down. Who administered the coup de grace on an elk which was unable to move from the spot is irrelavent as, regardless that the bull was technically not yet deceased, it had already been reduced to possession. Hunter "C" should be proud of his stopping shot on a wounded animal and should be equally unabashed about claiming it rightfully as his own. Hunter "A" should be happy to have a legal elk and someone to bail him out of an otherwise sticky situation. Hunter "B" is probably saying "Dude, can you believe these two lucky old farts?" | |||
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Sounds like deer hunting in Pa.!!  If one downs a wounded animal, it is the property of the one who killed it. It also sounds like hunter A needs some lessons on when to shoot another animal. Even if one wounds an animal and has it put down by someone else, I do not think it is ethical to start blasting away at another animal within seconds. He should be glad "B" was there to bail him out. | |||
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Thanks again all. Here is a picture of the bull, all 333 inches. As for the owner of the elk, that is Hunter A's feelings as well. He felt that as I downed the larger bull, it was mine and he went for the other one. It wasn't as much of a spray and pray scenario as i may have narrated or as others are perceiving. I went to lunch with him today, we're cool. I'm just a second guesser in all things, not just this issue.  Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | |||
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sounds like a goatrope. This is one of the simple and nice things about trophy hunting in Texas. If you wounded the animal, you pay the owner the trophy fee. If someone else sees the wounded animal (and cleans up your sh!tty shooting) you STILL bought the animal. If you shoot two animals, you pay two fees, even if someone else "kills" them First Blood.. If you make a "non killing hit" (who the hell can determine this on an aminal shot on the run?) you have the first animal. Hunter A needs to ownup to the fact that he's a jackass, and be very happy that Hunter C was there. I have sorted out far too many "hock" shot, gut shot, and a$$ shot animals for other hunters for me not to have a pretty pointed opinion on this. If Hunter A had a problem with that, and I was hunter C, i would say "fine" .. put my tag on the elk *I* shot, and packout. I would never hunt with A again, and probably not B. Hunter A, having pulled the trigger, shouldn't have shot the second animal. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I think everyone is possibly being too hard on A. GoWyo, please tell us if this is the sequence: 1. A shoots and wounds, but not mortally, larger of two elk with one (or more) of three shots. 2. C shoots and stops the larger wounded bull. 3. A now shoots and kills the smaller bull. If this is the sequence, then the hunters have done nothing improper, and nothing that any other hunters would not have done. A is only guilty of making poor shots in his excitement (presumably buck fever), which can and does happen to every hunter at one time or another. C is concerned that the larger trophy may not legitimately be his, but I think everyone agrees that his was the shot that reduced the larger bull to possession -- a shot without which the bull might have escaped, and a shot which he was obligated to take. While it may well be that A could have dropped the larger bull with his fourth shot with which he otherwise killed the smaller bull, there was no way for C to have known to wait on him to try, and even if C could have known, C was still obligated to try to kill a wounded animal. Good job, A & C, and congratulations on a beautiful trophy (as well as a second nice bull). I find some here who would pontificate about how superior their standards are to be speaking beyond their character. | |||
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Howdy Stonecreek, You summed it up perfectly. Thank you. Damn right its loaded, it makes a lousy club. -JW | |||
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