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I suppose gunscribes are just like lawyers, doctors and indian chiefs, some are good guys and some maybe not... I like the crusty old boys like Keith, Atkins, O'Connor, that had a tendency to tick people off by being honest in thier views...Keith kept the gunworld up in arms and I loved every minute of it and he was one of the best shots that ever walked... They all have something to contribute and thats what you oughta be looking for..Boddington has a world of experience that he has chosen to share with you, why not learn from what he has to offer, he is a nice guy in person, I've talked to him at SCI on occasions....Cooper is a heck of a 1911 shooter, and has a lot of pistol knowledge, but alas his rifle taste run a bit shy, and his hunting experience lacks merit. I read them all, glen whats good and discard whats bad, cuss'm, praise'm and on ocassions tell them face to face,"that ain't so!" Yes, there are some out there that lack hunting experience and claim great things, which I seriously doubt at there ages, and I suspect that as time progresses we will see more and more that lack real hunting experience just as most of us will never get the experience of Bell, Selous, Manners and others, no matter how we try. We can only judge people by todays standards, not yesteryears, same with gunscribes... I like them all, some better than others, some much better than others, as long as they don't hit me up for a free custom rifle for a mention in an article, but then I'm not trying to make a living building guns, its my hoby.....When they hit on me, I double the price, I get a kick out of that..Maybe thats why I like the crusty old gunwriters, it a curmudgeon thang! ------------------ | |||
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| <JohnT> |
Bit of the Tall Poppy Syndrome here. I thought it was only we Aussies that suffered from that. Boddington, Sundra & Van Zwoll are all great writers. Have just read Boddington's Book "Make it Accurate". Well written, presented, logical & he doen't ram anything down your throats. These guys have to make a living from their writing so even if they are over complimentary to some Company it up to the "buyer to beware". That responsibility rests with you. Regards, | ||
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Gun magazine articles are merely the opinion of someone based on their experinces. If you do not like them, don't read them. If you can think you can do better, write your own and send them in. | |||
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Ray I know you don't like "plastic" rifles, so I couldn't imagine you toting around Cooper's Scout Rifle, but I'd like to ask a question about your comment on Coopers choice of rifles. Is it the Scout Rifle "Concept" that you disagree with? Or is it merely that his rifle has a radical design and synthetic components? Just curious about your take on this rifle... I like many of the good writers, and many have taught me something. I find alot of information on forums like this though. | |||
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Maybe I should answer this in a different manner. I'll start with the writers I have had the pleasure (?) of meeting personally, and then those that have taken the time to answer my mail, good or bad. Hal Swiggett. A genuine gentleman. One of the few that has not talked down to me as if I was a dummy. Jan Libourel. Sorry Jan. You came on as a snob, and I don't like being talked down to. Jeff Cooper. Rude. Arrogant. but I like him anyway. FWIW. Check out Jeff Coopers commentaries on the web. Just search Jeff Cooper. The comments you see in Guns&Ammo come from these, and they censor some of the choice comments out. He is a crusty old dude. Ron Spomer. I disagreed with him on something and wrote him about it. He was kind enough to reply, and admit he could be wrong. He later wrote an article in, either Rifle or Handloader about shooting myths. he commented on my questioning whether a 1 in 12 inch twist will stabilize 220 gr. 30 cal. bullets. (It will.) John Barsness. I wrote him commenting on an article, with a couple of anecdotes that were in the same vein. One of the things he said was the reason they push the premium bullets is because they get them free. Al Miller. Another gentleman who will take the time to answer your queries. Ken Waters. Another first class writer who will take the time for you. Notice something? Most of the writers mentioned are either "old timers" or write for Rifle/Handloader. BTW. When did Col. Craig make General? Also G&A is no longer owned by Peterson, although you still see his name there. It's owned by EMAP, a British corporation. I wonder if that has anything to do with the magazine being so lousy? Paul B. | |||
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| <Jagermeister> |
Hej Mats, You are one insane Svensk. For the record, Lt. Col Boddington is nothing of a General in the US Marines. I went to John Rigby & Co. in Paso Robles, California where he has an office. The women with whom I spoke constantly refered to Boddington as "The Colonel." He is a Lieutenant Colonel in the Marines, get that through your head. As for the best gun writer, I would say Peter Capstick for his colorful writing, endless imagery, and great humor. I have heard that he fabricated most of his tales, but even if there is any validity to such claims, he is still enjoyable to read. Tack. Vi ses. | ||
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I thought it somewhat interesting that it wasn't until the last post that anyone mentioned Peter Capstick. I don't really have an opinion as to who is the worst writer, but I fully feel that Capstick is one of the best I've ever read. In any genre. | |||
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| <Mats> |
quote: Indeed I am, all my friends would agree. But what has that got to do with Boddington's promotion? -- Mats | ||
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Jagermeister, you're out of date I think. From all accounts Craig Boddington was recently promoted to General. I say congratulations to him. | |||
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| <Ol' Sarge> |
Well now, I've hesitated wading into this fray, but here goes, and the first thing I'm going to do is...........change my name. This sure is a rough bunch. Some are a little nicer than others, but all will challenge you on any controversial subject. I used to think I might try my hand at occasionally submitting an article or two to some magazines(I have had a short story published, but not enough experience for full time job as an outdoor writer - - -yet). But I don't think my skin is thick enough anymore. And I couldn't use my rank of Master Sergeant. A Lt. Colonel is addressed as Colonel. Last I knew Graig Boddington was a Lt. Col.. If he was promoted to Brigadier General, he skipped Colonel. The Uniform Code of Military Justice forbids using your rank or office for personal gain. A very light shade of gray area. The USMC must not have a problem with it, although I do. I admire most of the writers whether I like there personal writing style or not. John Wooters wrote once that he went to journalism school specifically so he could earn a living doing what he loved to do most - hunting. Some of these guys are not very good writers. Elmer Kieth was a horrible writer, but he sure told a good story, and his editors fixed it. Some, like Rick Jamison, and Ken Waters are much better technicians than writers. Jeff Cooper may lean a little to the right (okay, a bunch) but I admire a man who says exactly what he thinks. I read them all and enjoy some and learn from most. P.S. I don't recall anyone mentioning Jim Carmicheal. | ||
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Disagree about Ken Waters being a better technician than writer. I would go so far as to say that he's a great technical writer -- which is quite an art in itself. You can pick up "Pet Loads," read the articles on any given caliber, and have a pretty good idea of what approaches are and aren't promising and what pitfalls to watch out for, which is more than you get anywhere else. As for others, I must have reread every article in the late Finn Aagaard's "Hunting Rifles and Cartridges" a dozen times. (Did you know you can buy a copy of "Aagaard's Africa" on the web for $279?) I also like Barsness and van Zwoll. John | |||
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| <BigBores> |
Jeff Cooper, definately. One of the worst I have ever read. Seems to have a good character and all that, I just can't stand his writing style. Never met the man, but he seems to get a lot of mileage out of very little actual experience. Always says "We" instead of "I", like somehow that will give his words some much needed weight. What a blowhard. Just my opinion of his writing only, not the man. Like I said, never met him, could be a really great guy, but...WHEW! | ||
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| <Peter> |
Gentleman, no one has mentioned the greatest gunwriter of all time (even if only in his own mind). I refer, of course, to Massad Ayoob who at one point in American Handgunner referred to shooting a game animal in Africa at the range of 400 yards, WITH OPEN SIGHTS, no less! His analyses of eg. the Miami Shootout has been proven to be totally in error, yet he continues on his merry way as a legal expert. Just MHO. Peter. | ||
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quote: Another cheap generalisation. You are only jealous because you never had an Empire. | |||
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| <redleg155> |
Well, not having been around as long as some of you and surely lacking in real-world experience too - I must say that I will again vote for Ross Seyfried. I have been reading his stuff for almost 20 years and I finally got a chance to meet him in May at the NRA Convention. He was a gentlemanly and courteous as can be. He possesses the rate ability to selflessly give of his time and experience to others. And he's got a lot to give in that respect. OOPS! I guess this belongs on the "best gun writers of all time. redleg [This message has been edited by redleg155 (edited 06-07-2001).] | ||
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| <Jim Sarafin> |
Kind of lost track of this website after it moved. Interesting thread. I disagree with those who have a problem criticizing writers. I've mostly stopped reading hunting mags because of a prevailing lack of journalistic ethics in the editors and writers. It's a conflict of interest -- and worse, for most readers, an _undisclosed_ conflict of interest -- to accept free product and trips from a manufacturer while purporting to evaluate the product. Lawyer jokes ought to be told instead about gun writers. At least when a lawyer opens his mouth, the judge and jury _know_ that his client is paying him to say them. Jim | ||
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I, like many others was going to refrain from posting on this thread, since I know that I could not do as good a job as the worst of the gun writers being skewered here, and I doubt, with or one or two exceptions, that any of the posters who seem to enjoy belittling others efforts could do as well either. Peter, I have never met Massad Ayoob, but I would not bet serious money that he or someone could not hit a large size animal at400 yards with open sights, or you will shortly be out a pile of money. It can and has been done many times. | |||
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| Administrator |
A long time ago I found that most things written by Ed Matunas have to be taken a very large dose of salt. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
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I agree about Matunas. He is so consevartive in his reloading articles that I think it's a wonder he even dares to put powder in the shells. You ever wonder why Jack O'Connor and Elmer Kieth were so popular? Controversy. They played the small bore high velocity vs big bore lower velocity game like a pair of accomplished musicians. Although it has been said that O'Connor hated Keith's guts, I secretly suspect it was all a ruse. Either way, I always enjoyed their writings. I have suggested on other forums that we, the reader write the gun rags and express our displeasure. Tell them what we the readers want. Their advertising won't get much for their money, if no one buys the rags. I've let all the ones I sibscribe to know that if there is no change, I won't renew. As a Life/Endowment member of the NRA, I'm stuck (?) with the rifleman, but at least it is showing some signs of improvement. Just my thoughts on the matter. Paul B. | |||
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Actually I thought I'd read that O'Connor thought the whole thing was silly, that Keith was the one who really got worked up because O'Connor was the one who got the big deal Outdoor Life job... I have known one or two folks who edited Keith's stuff ... if you ask them they just shake their head. John | |||
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| <Peter> |
Gatorgordo, as I recollect, this was with a 4" 44 magnum HANDGUN! 400 yards is roughly the length of 4 football fields. I think that I would be prepared to put down some serious money! In any case, I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I like to practice at 100 yards with my 44mag and 45Colt on a steel gong. At 400 yards, I doubt that I could see it! Peter. | ||
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| <Wes> |
Wow! Who would guess this would be so important to so many. Well, opinions are like... I like to read things written by a guy who spends at least some of his time on unguided hunts, doing the scouting, beating bushes, and really doing some hunting, even if he comes up empty. Unless he sits in a tree all day (faced with this choice, I'd rather be at work, frankly) something interesting usually comes about, especially if one is part of a small group. I get turned off with much of what is written. Bet a lot of these guys never got bloody up to their elbows, never had to clean out their gut shot amimal, never had a drag that lasted overnight. Still more would have no clue as how to scout for huntable habitat, create a multi person hunt strategy, and develop the hunt over a number of seasons. Most stories I enjoy reading and hearing relate to numerous blunders committed during a hunt by members of ones party. They are not about someone shooting yet another (deer, elk, bear) with the inevitable and obligatory "then he dropped as if pole axed, my shot going exactly where I placed it". Yup, whatever. Well, I've spouted, now I guess I feel better. Wes | ||
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quote: John. Chase down a copy of FORTY YEARS WITH THE 45-70 by Paul Matthews. In this book, either the original or revised edition, he reproduces several letters by Keith. Look at those and you'll see why editors shook their heads. The man was a great shot, of which I have little doubt, but he could not type or spell worth beans. As to his great long range shot at a deer? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I once made a very lucky shot, in front of witnesses that was, well just plain luck. It did win me $100 so I'm not complaining. It was once said, that if you shot a gun long enough, that you'd make more "lucky" shots, than not. We all know Keith shot a lot, probably every day. When I made my lucky shot, I was burning up about 200 rounds of .44 mag. a week. I was on an elk hunt, and one of the people, a judge yet, started giving me a bad time because I was wearing my 629 S&W 44. There was an old log, with a branch sticking out at about 250-300 yards. I bet the old judge $100 I could hit that log before the gun ran dry. He said no pistol would shoot that far. Anyway, I clipped a piece off the branch on the first shot. I asked him if he wanted to go double or nothing. He refused. He also had a lot more respect for my, in his words, "worthless peashooter." Oh yes, he did pay off the bet. I know. Lucky shot.  Paul B. | |||
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Brian Pearce. As far as I am concerned he is an Elmer Kieth wanna be. I was reading a story he had published. Everything sounded real familiar so I dug out "Hell, I was there" Sure enough the same story, same events, same critters. Huh, who copied whom? Sean | |||
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Lone Eagle. Ain't that called plagiarism? (sp) I have Keith's book. Which articles are you referring to? I for one would write the magazine and complain. Paul B. | |||
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Paul B, I will see if I can't find the article by Pearce and then get the Kieth info for you. Sean | |||
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Ross Seyfried did an article about long range, open sighted, handgun shooting. He was mostly using a modified Ruger Vaquero in .45 Colt, I believe. I can't remember how far he was shooting, but it was pretty interesting. I'm not much of a handgunner, but I played around with his technique a little with my .45ACP. It worked pretty well, and I was hitting 10" circles at 100 yards fairly regularly. I know 100 yards is a far cry from 400, but I did this with very little practice. I saw that TV trick shooter Bob Munden (sp?) hit a balloon at 100 or 200 yards with a snub nosed .38. I would have told you that was impossible if I hadn't seen it myself. | |||
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| <Mats> |
When it comes to Keith's lo-o-o-o-ong range deer shot, I seem to recall the words "he was wounded by this other fellow and getting away, I just had to get him" or similar. I think the gun ran dry too. I don't think he would've put any money on hitting anything smaller than a normal house at that distance, but wounded animals deserve any attempts of finishing it off quickly. -- Mats | ||
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| <BigBores> |
A friend once bet me I couldn't hit a bowling pin at 100 yards with my stock springfield 1911. This was back when I worked security and shot a lot, 4-500 rds a week. I remember he gave me a whole clip to do it with. I sighted the pin, and then held the whole front sight over the rear sight and fired. First shot missed to the side (pulled it), second shot knocked the pin over. I didn't say a word, but just holstered my gun and walked up to get the pin. I didn't want him to see the stunned look on my face, all the way up there I was thinking "no way!'. I thought I might have hit dirt or something and that knocked the pin over. When I got to it, it had 1 hole in it off to the rt side of the head part. Wow! I really hit it! Then I turned and walked back to my friend (and partner), there were 2 cops standing there, that I didn't see or hear pull up, I was still wearing my earmuffs. They had come up to see what the shooting was, finding us to be officers, they just BS'd with my partner. It was all I could do to manage to act like I knew what I was doing. I can still see the surprise on their faces, especially when the one cop saw the hit and said "Whoa, head shot!" Man I'm glad they didn't ask for a repeat! I probably couldn't have done it again in 500 rds.! LOL. BTW relevant to the thread: I criticize bad writers knowing I couldn't do better. But, they chose to join that profession, not me. I would suck as a surgeon also, but if one took out my spleen instead of my appendix, I would complain even if I couldn't do better myself. They are (writers) open to critics by posting stories in a mag. that has to be paid for. I pay for the material they produce. When it is not up to my expectations, it is my right to criticize. If it was free, I would hold my criticisms to myself. That's the difference to me. | ||
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