Horsehockey, they ain't either...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

As far as COL Boddington is concerned I don't often agree with his conclusions but I am always interested in his observations and I certainly do not get the impression that he is vain.

Ross Seyfried is as down to earth as they get. I wrote to him many years ago and got a long and very engaging letter in reply. He is my favorite gun writer because of the humor of his writing, his evident knowledge and experience, the unusualness of his subjects and (I confess) because I am a sucker for nostalgic and esoteric subjects (like blackpowder doubles).

I will admit that I despise Jeff Cooper's remarks for what I perceive to be a brand of ultra-right wing elitist arrogance that went out of fashion with the British Empire and the "white man's burden". I am aware that many others think him a fine fellow and he may be a great whiskey drinking companion as long as the conversation doesn't drift into politics. I imagine that we all have such acquaintances and love them for personal reasons of our own, usually simply long acquaintance.

How about the "Worst Gun Magazines"? I quit reading "Guns and Ammo" and "Shooting Times" years ago for the most part because they were in a rut and couldn't get out (ie, "Is the .44 Magnum Still King?" and "The Perfect Deer Rifle", etc. etc.). Now I rely mainly on "Rifle" and "Handloader", which are at least more technically rigorous and less full of unsubstantiated personal opinion. Someone complained of magazine articles which read like an infomercial. Well, what do you want? Is your complaint a sell-out, an unwillingness to reveal deficiencies? Being brutally honest is difficult unless you are financially independent. Thats the beauty of the internet, but gunwriters do not enjoy the luxury of being able to say all that they might wish to. Then again, discretion is a virtue sometimes not fully appreciated. It isn't necessary to make an enemy in order to make a point.

[This message has been edited by Nickudu (edited 04-01-2001).]

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If Elmer didn't say it, it probably ain't true.

quote:

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Originally posted by sure-shot:
Julias Fortunas of the Trophy Hunter Magazine out of Utah. Ego! Ego Ego! The rest of 'em are great. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether their right or wrong or in between! I've learned a thing or two from all of them including Julias Fortunas. He just needs to throw that gargantion ego off a cliff if thats possible.

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He's also been indicted for poaching mule deer. Hang Em' High!!!!

Guns "n" Ammo- just about everyone has written for this mag at one time. I bet it was a first class mag at one time. Now, when someone asks me for an opinion on G&A, I tell them it is the People magazine of the gun world. Articles designed so the average person can read it within the length of time it takes for the average crap. I'll buy it if I need something to read while waiting for a plane or ferry and there isn't any other choice.

Peterson's Hunting-How many "Best Deer Rifle/Best Whitetail Tips/How To Get the Best Accuracy/etc" articles do we need? Still, some of the actual HUNTING articles are great. Despite it being unlikely for me to ever have the means to go for a Marco Polo Ram, I liked reading about Boddingtons Adventure. I'll buy this one whenever i want to be entertained or if there is an article I'm interested in .

Rifle/Handloader-Best of the bunch. I learn something every time I read these magazines. They are also thought provoking. Plus, Seyfried, Barnses, and a couple of others I like are frequent contributers. Finn Aagard was a regular until his death.

Big Game Adventures-Mostly a Canadian mag, put out in Alberta. No how-to tips, no essays on ballistics. Just "We went here to hunt, this is what happened" A refreshing change.

There are also a couple of local mags (BC Outdoors etc) I like for local appeal.

I'm not scared to go to the store for a soda, so I don't care about .380 wound channels

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Phil- Life Member NRA & SCI

[This message has been edited by Santala (edited 04-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Santala (edited 04-06-2001).]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigIron:
Gents,

There is a need to distinguish between a writer whose style we don't like, whose viewpoints we don't like, and whose personality we don't like.

I do not like many of Wayne Van Zwoll's viewpoints. He and I do not see eye-to-eye on many things. Yet, he is quite experienced and shows what appears to me to be an attractive humility in his prose. I would happily share a campfire with him, even though I disagree doggedly with many of his views. The campfire discussions would be worth the cost of admission.

The late Col. Charles Askins' patriotic & shooting accomplishments are beyond denial. Honorable service in the U.S. Army and the Border Patrol. By all accounts he was an excellent target & field shot. He was also a hunter of great experience. Having said all that, I don't think I've ever read a writer whose work was laced with a more arrogant attitude. The title of his book, "Unrepentant Sinner", is indicative of the attitude his work projected. Bill Jordan was a man of similar accomplishments but a much better attitude.

I have disagreed with some of Col. Boddington's perspectives. For instance, he likes .308 caliber and larger bores for long range work on deer, and I see no problem with the 6.5, .270, and 7mm cartridges with appropriate bullets. He is one of the most experienced hunters writing today. If he writes of many expensive hunts that you and I can only dream of, that's what his editors want him to do. I will probably never hunt the 3-legged blue-bellied sheep of Cucamongistan, but doing it and writing about it sells magazines, and that's precisely what all 'zine editors want. The rank of full-bird colonel is an accomplishment, be it in reserves or active duty, and I see no problem with him adding it to his byline.

Stan Trzoniec's photography is excellent but I do not care for his writing style, nor that of Clair Rees.

My favorite was the late Finn Aagard. It will be awhile before we see his equal. I like John Barsness and am learning to appreciate Brian Pearce.

BigIron

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Mr. Boddington gets my vote as worst writer, but not exactly from his points of view, field experience or technical knowledge, but as others said before,because of his attitude.

Wayne Van Zwoll ranks highs to me as well as Rick Jamison, here I see an excellent balance of vast knowledge and common sense, not easy to encounter in the crowd that gun writers are made of...

Seyfried is one of my favorites.He actualy writes about different and interesting things.While others are banging out the same old deer rifle riff raft he's writing about loads for old NE rounds of hunting cape buffalo with his handguns.

Brian Pearce is one of my favorites,probibly because he reminds me of my all time favorite writer,Elmer Keith.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

1. Writing is subjective and no matter what you write there will be many who don't agree with you or like who you appear to be in their eyes. Remember Mr. Lincoln about who you can please when? Well when you write for a living and are always under the gun and try to please everyone you only end up doing a crappy job of it. When you sit down and write what you feel and try to be as fair as possible and do the best job you can , you will no doubt pi$$ off more folks than you will please.

2. It is really tough to have to sit down every week or what ever and write somthing on the same basic subject. I know, I did for a number of years. It wasn't about hunting or guns but about wine. It is fun and exiting at first but begins to become a chore after a while and a lot of the time you aren't really sure what you are going to write until it happens and then you go on the public chopping block.

I would also like to apologize for any bashing I have done in the past when I was being irrationally reactive rather than thinking about what I was doing at the time.

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Protect our heritage, take a kid hunting!

"De Oppresso Liber"

His story of watching fermented walrus meat drip all over the "normal" food was funny. Can't remember where I read that, it was just a shorty.

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If Elmer didn't say it, it probably ain't true.

Without any implied disparagement, I think Boddington is a "light" Col.

As far as Elmer's truth goes, read the story of the bullet proof ram. That animal supposedly took 7 hits from a 7mm Sharpe & Heart. Admittedly the one in the ear wasn't fatal, but the two through the lungs delivered at powder burn range seem a bit stretched. The guy who actually shot the ram, claimed the first hit passed through the lungs and killed the ram. No follow up shots were taken. O'Conner took him up on the story, and some acrimony was exchanged, IN PRINT! Just the same I like reading Elmer, he at least describes the non-fatal hits, even if an awful lot of them are through an ear.
My vote for worst: Jon Sundra. I just don't like the style.

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Guns cause crime, which is why there has never been a mass slaying at a gun show.

[This message has been edited by Slamfire (edited 04-15-2001).]

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Good huntin' and shootin',
Bwanawannabe, Daktari Ron

quote:

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Originally posted by Slamfire:
Without any implied disparagement, I think Boddington is a "light" Col.

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He's not even a Colonel - Craig Boddington is a Brigadier General in the United States Marine Corps. Not exactly "light" in my book - he is one of nine (9) on this planet.

You're welcome to better him in that respect.

-- Mats

Daryl

I don't respect him for being a guy with lots of stars and stripes. If he writes good articles he will get respect. He could be a "John Doe" and get respect from me, Im no green man so i don't care if he is General Brigadier in the reserve or president of U.S.A.

Best regards, Talus

No matter how famous or infamous, every man is driven to see what others are saying about him.

If you really want to get anyone's goat, talk about every article in the latest issue EXCEPT the one he's most anxious to hear about...his own.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

quote:

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Originally posted by JOHAN:
Mats
So you are impressed by pulling rank? Why bother to defend Mr Boddington and his rank. If he is a Brigadier General, will this make him a much better writer?

I don't respect him for being a guy with lots of stars and stripes. If he writes good articles he will get respect. He could be a "John Doe" and get respect from me, Im no green man so i don't care if he is General Brigadier in the reserve or president of U.S.A.

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Johan,

Sorry for the long wait for my reply, I haven't bothered to check this thread...

I ain't the least bit impressed by anyone pulling rank (vilket n�rmast �vers�tts med att vara �versittare, bufflig och/eller maktfullkomlig - att utnyttja sin st�llning). I am, however, impressed by the concept of rank, as a token of achievement. You bet I'm more impressed by those who do than those who don't.

I'm no man-in-green myself and I don't think his military rank relates to his writing any more than his choice of car, but many have used their dislike for his work; as an authour; as an excuse for dismissing anything he has ever done. That is totally uncalled for and extremely childish - or just stupid, in my opinion.

Personally, I've learned from about every writer I've come across. Even a bigott like Jeff Cooper; who more or less constantly encourages his readers to murder someone he does not like (like Hyurichi, of Ruby Ridge fame) and apparently thinks that colored africans should "climb back up the tree they came from"; has offered me knowledge - and done it with a sometimes impressive mastering of English as a written language. That his personal views are repulsive to me does not detract from the fact that I can learn from him, or enjoy his writing style.

It seems to me that "Jantelagen" exists even outside Scandinavia. That's just too sad.

-- Mats

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill in NE:
I will never bash any writer though, I don't have the superior knowledge to condemn them. Like some here, I eagerly await to hear from some of you, but don't have much in common with some others, but that doesn't make you any better or worse, just different.

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Bill,

That made perfect sense to me and it was very well put. I could not agree more.

-- Mats

What does "jantelagen" mean? And where do you get the idea that Cooper is a bigot? While I have not scrutinized volumes of his writings I do not recall a scintilla of anything of the kind you allude to in the numerous articles I have read. Moreover, I cannot imagine some of the people who associate with Cooper doing so if he was in the least thought of as racist. I believe Bill Buckley [National Review] counts Cooper as a friend as does George Gilder [one of the great technology writers and thinkers of our time] and a number of other well respected [albeit conservative] American writers and intellectuals. Yes, Cooper's style is pretension---like Bill Buckley's---and complex. But figuring out what the man is saying; comprehending the message is what makes so much writing interesting. Too many contemporary gun writers do not require the reader to think.
Please share the evidence upon which you base your conclusion of racism.

Regards,

Jordan

P.S. I am not sure many of us could shoot better than Cooper at his age. He is near 80, and in any event, what does that have to do with his writing ability?

quote:

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Originally posted by Jordan:
What does "jantelagen" mean? And where do you get the idea that Cooper is a bigot?

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Jordan,

"Jantelagen" (the Jante law, laws of Jante) was found in a book (En flyktning krysser sitt spor/A fugitive crosses his tracks, 1933) of the Danish born, Norweigan based novelist Aksel Sandemose. In it he describes the life of a man who moved to a small, narrowminded town in Denmark and the people and attitudes he met.

Its true meaning is apparent for most of us Swedes, Danes, Norweigans and Finns.

The ten commandments of Jante:

1. Don't think you are somebody.
2. Don't think you are as good as us.
3. Don't think you are smarter than us.
4. Don't think you are better than us.
5. Don't think you know more than us.
6. Don't think you are more important than us.
7. Don't think you will ever be anybody.
8. Don't think you can laugh at us.
9. Don't think anybody gives a damn about you.
10. Don't think you can teach us anything.

As far as Mr. Cooper is concerned, I see lots of tiny remarks; could be about the political system in RSA or whatever; that makes me believe he might not subscribe to the theories that all men should be treated equally good until proven that they're not worthy of such treatment. I could be wrong.

-- Mats