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one of us |
Looking in the classified section of this web site, my impression is that rifles for sale in the Ultramag calibers with only a few rounds through them seem to be more common them others. What's up that so many people buy one, shoot maybe 100 rounds, and then sell? Are the Ultramags not the panacea they are claimed to be? | ||
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| <Bill> |
While I have never been fully seduced by the Ulta Mags, the closest I have come is the old 7 STW. On paper looks great, but it just doesn;t do it for me in real life. Maybe something similar is going on with the Ultras. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
AD, That and the fact that their shoulders are just now forgiving them  I shoot a .338 Ultra, and I love it...however when I see a newbie hunter/shooter walk into a gun store w/ that 'ignorant bliss' look on his face, and pick out the newest shiniest gizmo rifle for his first ever big game hunt...I shudder. I suspect these are the people who place 90+% of these ads, after they realize that they can't handle the recoil. I had to work up from a 30'06 to a 300 WM to my .338 Ultra to get used to the recoil. And, while it's no walk in the park to shoot, it's not unbearable. Plus, it's a hell of a cartridge...you definately won't be seeing my ad in any classifieds any time soon.------------------ | |||
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| <Eric Leonard> |
i got the 700 BDLSS in 300 RUM with a Shilen trigger,3.5 to 10x50 Leupold in Redfield mounts.it shoots the 180 Combined Tech. Balistic Silvertip at 3435 over 98 grs. RL 25 and way plenty accurate. killed 5 deer with 5 shots so far with that rig. i got around 1300$ tied up in it and wouldnt take 1500$ back for it. ------------------ | ||
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| <mnmark> |
Hey Guys, I have a rem. 700 BDL in .338 Rem. Ultra Mag. , scoped with a Leupold Vari-X III 2.5-8x. I have no complaints about mine except for the muzzle jump which gets tiresome repositioning it when you're shooting it off the bench. Other than that I have no complaints. I routinely get 1.25" groups from it (on average), with any loads. Note: these are 5-shot groups at 100 yards. Best to date is a .625" group (again 5-shots). Would I buy another? YES! -mnmark [This message has been edited by mnmark (edited 02-12-2002).] | ||
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| <PrimeTime> |
The gunshops here in Pa. are already starting to get used Ultras. 444 hit the nail on the head. The main reason for the returns is the severe recoil. Many macho types say it isn't bad but that's ridiculous. They kick like a ticked off mule and I believe most people can't handle it. Having said that, I am having a 300 UM built as we speak but mine will weigh over 30 pounds as a heavy bench gun. A guy I know has one that's 22 pounds and he says the recoil is pretty stiff with the 240 grainers. I can't even imagine shooting a 200 plus grain bullet in a 9 pound rifle. Strap on a helmet and hold tight! | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
Never fails,a bunch of newbies want to ante up to performance,but are not versed in the rifle. They soon learn they can't shoot the cartridge well and the smart ones sell out. Nothing new.............. | ||
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| One of Us |
They will become like 375s and 458s You know the add. 23 facory rounds and 17 fired cases come with the rifle One thing I learnt years ago about recoil was your own gun kicks far more than shooting someone elses gun at a rock or tree. Mike | |||
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| one of us |
To date I haven't seen em show up on the used shelves around here. I do think that they have recoil that is a bit quicker and sharper than most people feel comfy with. I shoot a rather lightweight 340 and 375 Wby so they don't bother me all that much. Are they as fun to shoot as my 6/06? No-but I also do not feel they are totally caustic! Just my thoughts. "GET TO THE HILL" Dog | |||
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| <Reloader 1> |
444 is probably spot on. While the ultra mags do have some recoil in the ones I've shot/owned. Severe is not anywhere close but maybe to a new shooter.Felt recoil has alot to do with stock design,composition,and of course weight of the gun.Muzzle blast alone probably has more effect on the shooter than actual recoil and the big guns have this in spades. | ||
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| one of us |
For most hunter they soon realise that for what they do their 06 or 270 does just fine. So they have decided that they do not have to put up with the recoil and blast to get the job done. The only real need for the hot mags is extended ranges past 500 yds and most people do not want to spend the time or the money getting good enough to hit out there. So they are glad to get rid of something that costs a lot to shoot and recoils a lot more then they are use to. | |||
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| one of us |
The ultra mags are great long range calibers but they aren't for beginners or people who are recoil shy.I like mine so much I am having another one built. | |||
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| <allen day> |
I know that if I were in a mood to pony-up for a rifle in one of the Ultra-Mag chamberings, the .338 Ultra would be the one I'd go for. AD | ||
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| one of us |
PrimeTime, Your buddy must be sort of recoil sensitive.A 22 pound 300 Ultra Mag with 240s would have recoil about equal to an eight or nine pound 30-06,around 22 ft. lbs. ------------------ | |||
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| Moderator |
It is very true that the RUMs and similar rounds produce recoil and blast in a big ways! They are not a round for the hunter who fires a few shots at a stump and then goes out to kill his one deer or elk each year. When Mr. Joe 30/06 comes to his senses he will sell out quickly! These are cartridges for serious hunters and shooters, people who pay the price to practice a lot and take their shooting just as, if not more seriously than their hunting. While many, too many IMO, think a RUM is only good for extreme distance shooting, they are missing the point. Team a 338RUM with a great bullet and see what happens at normal ranges. Until tried in the field on game, the results will likely not be appreciated and very likely be dismissed by the skeptic. | |||
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| <robsguns> |
Seems to me there are a lot of shooter out there that, if they cant handle the recoil, just dont know how to lessen the recoil of said weapon, through various means available at a good price. No gun has too much recoil if you want to do something about it. | ||
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| one of us |
I think that most of the UMs were sold by hype and not understanding hunting prowess or conditions. A buddy has a 300UM and complained about recoil and poor accuracy. I put it on the benchand got a 1" group immediatly.Just too much gun for the level of skill. I live in Alberta where there is a variety of game at one time, so the UM do have a place, but nothing that a 338 Win, 300 Win,can handle or for deer anywhere, a 270 win can either. We really havent gained anything substancial over the last 50 years with UMs vs Weatherbys. If you practice, they will fall. That said, if a gem comes up at my local shop or gun show, I will gladly buy it for .5/1$!
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| one of us |
Hey Battle River, welcome to the forum. I hunt out there (the big, booming metropolis of New Norway) with the Bjornson clan, sometimes. Lot's of fun. Take care - Dan | |||
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| One of Us |
Geeezzz - You mean velocity does not solve all problems? Education is very expensive. | |||
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| one of us |
quote: Battle River; You hit the nail right on the head!! Welcome!! & Good luck. | |||
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| one of us |
JohnS, "team a rum with a great bullet at normal ranges and see what happens".....A dead animal one assumes............unless the shooter is so hammered by recoil that he jerks his shot and flinches so badly that he misses, or worse yet, gut shoots the animal. Guess what happens when you team a 30-06 with a 180 hornady bullet at normal ranges.  Personally, I think it ought to be against the law to put muzzle brakes on rifles. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. | |||
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| Moderator |
I fully agree. I do not own any rifles with muzzle brakes and will not in the future. I believe I also stated the RUMs are for people willing to practice, pay the price, etc. A 180gr Hornady from a 30/06 in the guts fired by the average once a year hunter still results in the same thing. Why is it that so many think that because a hunter chooses a 30/06, 308, etc that they are immediately given a pass on flinching or proper practice techniques? I have seen a number of hunters that shoot these calibers that flinched as bad as a newbie with his shiny new 416. You still have to practice and learn to shoot, caliber makes no difference. Yes, the ultra type cartridgs are much harder to shoot effectively, but nothing is free nor impossible. If a hunter wants their added performance he has to learn to deal with what comes along with it. [This message has been edited by John S (edited 02-12-2002).] [This message has been edited by John S (edited 02-12-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
I picked up a 300WM a couple of weeks ago at a local gun shop. I started to tell the guy that took care of my paper work about an experience I had the week before at the range, where a young man couldn't get a 338RUM sighted in due to a rather pronounced case of "flinch", he told me he had a guy return one after two days, because he couldn't handle the recoil. I think a lot of guys get "sold" a gun because it's the new hot item, and don't have any idea what they are getting themselves in to. | |||
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| one of us |
Flinchitis isn't just reserved for the real kickers. I've met quite a few people over the years who felt that the 30-06 was a "real hard kicker", or that a 270 kicks a lot but is a super flat death ray on deer. It all depends on experience and perspective. Yes, the UM's do kick back a bit. I don't feel any differance between my buddies' 300 RUM and my 300 Wby when both are loaded with 200 gr Noslers. They are a little faster, which should translate into better trajectory, but at the distances where the differance would be meaningful, the shooter makes a whole lot more differance than the cartridge. Having said all that, I personally know two people who bought the 300 Um's because they are the "newest, fastest, flattest" etc. One gent hasn't shot his yet. I'm looking forward to it. But the gun companies, like every other business, employs advertising companies. they in turn sell the "sizzle" and not the steak. FWIW - Dan | |||
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| <robsguns> |
Why would you think it wrong to put a recoil dissipating device on a rifle, you have a recoil pad dont you? There are some very effective means of reducing recoil, and the smart man does so WHEN required. I guess none of you like the 50 BMG either? I hear men talking of the noise from porting, but a smart man wears hearing protection anyway, so whats the problem? One shot at a deer isnt goint to hurt your hearing, so you dont need to worry about that. My point is, if you can make a powerful tool better, do so, dont limit its uses, that doesnt make sense. | ||
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Moderator |
quote: BS, there are folks that have recieved permanent hearing damage from a single shot from a braked gun in the field. Typically it isn't the shooter, but hunting buddy that gets his/her ears blasted. The muzzle brake debate will go on for a long time. Personally I can't stand them, and won't put them on my guns. | |||
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| one of us |
BS, Maybe, but I have know a lot of old timers that got deeef from unbraked guns, including yours truly...Muzzle breaks are getting a rap that should apply to braked and unbraked guns... I like a brake on 416 Rem and up....I've lost my hearing without brakes and I don't want to lose my fillings too.... ------------------ | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
Craziest thing I've ever heard. A braked rifle stands alone,regarding the punishment it dishes out to the ear. They've yet to invent a more obnoxious contraption,that can readily inflict more damage,to the unsuspecting........................ | ||
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| <robsguns> |
Okay, I'm sailing the bullshit flag. There is absoloutely no way in hell that a gun without a brake ISNT going to do damage to your hearing, as a wise man has already stated, and it doesnt have to be a big one either, if you think otherwise, start shooting without protection and see what happens. I've lost a noteable amount of my hearing, and its from little guns, not big rifles, and I know specifically when and what gun it was with, 4" .357 mag., spring of 99. That gun is no way as loud as a run of the mill 30-06, so your points of shooting ported guns because they're too loud is null and void, you should always wear protection, and if you will lose your hearing due to a shot without hearing protection, it can and will occur whether or not the gun is ported. Reducing recoil through brakes or ports is effective, and very smart, shoot yours and put up with the recoil, and suffer the consequences, such as a detached retina, aggravation in your shoulder, poor accuracy, take your pick. | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
Mmmm, You ever shoot a ported pistol,in a direct comparison to it's NONported version? Ever shoot a ported rifle,in a direct comparison to it's NONported version? The differences are immediate,drastic,dramatic and not subject to debate. When you want your muffler to be quiter on your car,do you drill holes in the exhaust. Same damn thing................... | ||
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| <robsguns> |
I'm not saying porting doesnt elevate the decibel level measurably, I'm saying that the noise level is irrelevant, a gun is loud, and ported or non ported, it doesnt make a diff. its gonna hurt your ears without protection, I am just trying to make people understand the benefits of porting shouldnt even have the sound level factored in, as you should shoot with protection, and all by standers should always be wearing theirs also, always. | ||
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| <Big Stick> |
That is like saying a kick in the nuts would feel good,if it didn't hurt.............. (Trying to get the Evening News and type at the same well) [This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 02-13-2002).] | ||
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| One of Us |
robsguns, Try firing a 375 or 416 Wby with brake on and no ear protection as compared to no brake on and no ear protection. If you think it is similar then you should see a doctor. Mike [This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 02-13-2002).] | |||
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| <Reloader 1> |
Robsguns: I am with ya bud there is no reason to take punishment on the bench with any gun and brakes are a partial answer.Put plugs and muffs on and the db level is fine. If you want to hunt without the brakes increased db level take the damm thing off and screw on a protective nut.With that said one of my 30-06 that I usally hunt with is braked but my .338 ultra is not.... hmmmmmm maybe mom was right about that short stairway shit  | ||
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| One of Us |
Reloader 1, There are far better ways to ease recoil from the bench (and far more effective than a brake). In addition, point of impact does not change like it can/does with brake removed. And by the way, there is more to it than just an increase in noise, as far as muzzle brakes are concerned. Whenever I see postings about using a muzzle brake when shooting from the bench it indicates a lack of experience with shooting heavy kicking rifles. Why someone would put up with lots of recoil and lost of blast, can only be put down to lack of experience. Mike | |||
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| <Reloader 1> |
Mike375: Sorry I hit a sore spot with ya.Sure I use a Past on my shoulder when shooting most anything out of the different guns I shoot in any year of which 90% are unbraked. But they do have their place with many shooters just not being able to cope with recoil.As stated earlier I think muzzle blast itself is more problematic than recoil but most of this is physcological. If they feel they are not going to get the shit kicked out of them they shoot{make a humane kill}better.By the way by chance do you shoot the 375 Ultra Mag I need load data.(Published data is a little short) [This message has been edited by Reloader 1 (edited 02-13-2002).] | ||
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| One of Us |
Reloader 1, I would expect in about 3 months or so to have loading data on both 338 Ultra and 375 Ultra. I would not and do not use the past recoil shield. There are a few ways that a bag of lead shot can be used. Mike | |||
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| <rock42> |
I don't buy this that most of recoil is muzzle blast. I shoot a 264 mag, and I think this thing has pretty much zero perceived kick and this thing is supposed to be among the kings of muzzle blast. to me guns are loud period I wear hearing protection and I don't see much difference in noise that I notice with hearing protection. to whoever thinks a brake is for inexperienced sissies then why don't they build a 15 pound 50 bmg with no brake and then shoot it a coulple of times with full loads. hey maybe saeed can get his camera out and take pictures of that and put it on this site. | ||
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| one of us |
One of the standard jokes among my shooting buddies has been "If you want an UltraMag, just wait for 6-12 months after they hit the market; there'll be plenty of used ones available". I put 10-12 rounds through a .300 Ultra prior to last hunting season. Recoil as transmitted by the Rem. factory black synthetic stock was noticeable. I shoot a buddy's .416 Rigby every chance I get, so am used to some recoil, but there are many who won't want to live with the kick at the UltraMag level. | |||
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