Do any of you have a particular .223 factory load that you prefer for shooting whitetail does in the head? Are the Hornady 55 gr. V-Max bullets strong enough for head shots on deer out to 150 yards?

get ready to gut some deer

Eland, The v-max is designed to be an explosive bullet on varmints--as in red mist on small critters. Very frangible.
Grafs list
Federal 55g barnes triple shock, 55g sierra hpbt and 60g Nosler par, 62g fusion
Horn 55g sp
Norma 55g Oryx
Winchester 55g psp super-x
I think these would serve your purpose better.

Eland, Are you in an area where you NEED a highly frangible bullet? If not I'd say the V-Max are too explosive for my taste. The 60gr partitions will still kill on a headshot, and give you more options in the field.

That's what I was thinking. This gun will be my doe head shot gun and coyote gun, for the most part. Who makes a good load with the Nosler Partition? Federal I'm guessing.....anybody else?

Here's what I shoot:
60gr Nosler Patition
25.5gr Imr 4895
Win Brass
CCI benchrest primer.

This is a MAX load, work up carefully.

It shoots 1/2" groups out of my 1/9 twist 16" Bushmaster. When I did the milk jug test, the bullet was found in the 9th jug.

ES,

You might look at factory loads with ballistic silvertips.

I took a smallish hog and culled a spike with my 20 Tactical last year using 40 gr. v-max. Shot the hog in the head at 120 yds., DRT. Shot the spike in the neck at 80 yds. Dropped him DRT.

I don't know if there is a factory load that incorporates a Barnes TSX. A 45 gr. or 53 gr., .224 Barnes TSX should work fine for head shots also.
GWB

I like the Winchester 64 grain Power Point.

I use a 40 grain ballistic tip in a 22-250 for culling. It works great. The 55 grain should be perfect.

M16, where are you shooting them with those 40gr BT's?

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
M16, where are you shooting them with those 40gr BT's?

I shoot them in the white spot of the neck. I can choose my shots so if the angle isn't perfect I'll pass and find another.

Black Hills makes a load with both the 60 gr Partition and a load with the 55 gr TSX.

I will say that the 60 gr partition load holds together pretty well. I ruined a couple of hardened steel (I think AR 400) poppers by shooting them with this load. ( it was the dark days of the ammo unavailability and the store had them, and I wanted to practice prior going to Africa...) So in the end, it cost me $400 to practice for 100 rounds....

So I think it would work just fine for head shots on whitetail, assuming you can hit them in the brain, instead of the jaw or something...like a local who uses a .223 AR pistol for deer.

I think with proper placement almost any good .223 factory round will do.

I grew up watching my Dad use a .22 Hornet (factory ammo, 50's and 60's) dispatch numerous animals--

one shot --one kill

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Do any of you have a particular .223 factory load that you prefer for shooting whitetail does in the head? ..

This is really a bad concept. A Deer's head tends to move "randomly" without any predictable timing sequence.

There is not enough meat wasted with Shoulder-to-shoulder shots to concern anyone.

I'd strongly discourage anyone from attempting Head Shots on Deer.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Do any of you have a particular .223 factory load that you prefer for shooting whitetail does in the head? ..

This is really a bad concept. A Deer's head tends to move "randomly" without any predictable timing sequence.

There is not enough meat wasted with Shoulder-to-shoulder shots to concern anyone.

I'd strongly discourage anyone from attempting Head Shots on Deer.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

I couldn't agree more!!!!
Why anyone would attempt head shots with this or any caliber on deer is beyond me.Use a larger caliber and respect the game you hunt.

Glad I hunt states where this round is not legal for hunting big game. If you have to use a perfect head shot for a clean kill, its not enough bullet!

i've culled plenty of does in texas and elsewhere with a 22 lr and head shots
if a 22 will do it, a 223 will get the job done that much better.
i'd keep my shot under a 80 yds.

If a person is confident and comfortable enough with their ability to accurately place their shots in the head every time, then more power to them.

Personally however, I really do wish that TP&W would do like other states and set the minimum caliber for deer at .243 and larger.

This goes right back to the discussion about people using magnums for hunting supposedly having physcological issues.

I feel the same way about people that push the so-called envelope on the other end of the spectrum by using the .224 and even smaller calibers when shooting deer size and even larger critters.

That is all JMO.

Growing up around a marksman/hunter

the "Patriot" was not the first time I heard:

"Aim small, miss small"

My very first deer was a head shot,

they and hogs die quickly when properly performed.

One of our hunting places has a head-shot "rule" (for hogs) among the regulars--

Head-shots only and nothing with more power than a .221 Fireball.


This is where the ethics in hunting crowd usually begins their crtitique--

if it's not a certain calibre,

if it's at X-yards its too far,

its not hunting , its sniping

if its not a heart/lung/off-side shoulder shot--

etc, etc


Truth is -

everyone has different capabilities, training, history--

If you are uncomfortable, insure, untrained, unpracticed--

its simple--

don't do this until you become proficient and comfortable with it.

For those that have seen and/or done this for decades ,

your admonishments are indeed humorous ,

so,

Please --

Don't let that stop you.

Mine was not an admonishment:

quote:

If a person is confident and comfortable enough with their ability to accurately place their shots in the head every time, then more power to them.

I just believe, as evidently does the Game & Fish Depts. in various states, that not everyone has the same level of experience or ability when using their firearms, so they make the window just a little smaller by putting caliber restrictions in place.

The premise is, just because something can be done with minimal equipment, should it be done and should everyone be trying to do it?

I don't believe so, but that is just my opinion.

I have been on the wrong end of enough tracking jobs for wounded critters to tell me that had the shooter been using something they were more comfortable with or have taken a higher percentage kill shot, then trying something fancy, the end results would have been more palatable for all concerned.

My daughter wants to kill some caribou with us when they come through nx month. After she shot the wife's 270, she decided just to use my old preban colt that has a scope. She's been shooting all kinds of floating debris with our high water on the Yukon and can hit a bou behind the ear at 100 yards; so it's a 223 nx month for the girl. I'm going to try and get some 223 noslers or boat tails at sportsmans before the caribou show up, but will use the old Q3131 just as quick.

If the gun shop I order my new guns at has a Stagg 6.8 SPC when we get in town; might pick it up. But I wonder if the 6.8 has as much kick as 270 though?

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Growing up around a marksman/hunter

the "Patriot" was not the first time I heard:

"Aim small, miss small"

My very first deer was a head shot,

they and hogs die quickly when properly performed.

One of our hunting places has a head-shot "rule" (for hogs) among the regulars--

Head-shots only and nothing with more power than a .221 Fireball.


This is where the ethics in hunting crowd usually begins their crtitique--

if it's not a certain calibre,

if it's at X-yards its too far,

its not hunting , its sniping

if its not a heart/lung/off-side shoulder shot--

etc, etc


Truth is -

everyone has different capabilities, training, history--

If you are uncomfortable, insure, untrained, unpracticed--

its simple--

don't do this until you become proficient and comfortable with it.

For those that have seen and/or done this for decades ,

your admonishments are indeed humorous ,

so,

Please --

Don't let that stop you.

Totally agree!!!!

So, are neck shots OK, or should I keep them to my self and snicker afterwards should I accomplish one?
GWB

I prefer a high shoulder shot for deer. Target isn't apt to be moving as much and a larger target also. I've culled deer with both head and high shoulder shots, the high shoulder is just a higher percentage shot for me. Deer still drops right there.

The worst thing about the small calibers is a small entrance hole and usually no exit with body shots. This greatly minimizes the blood trail if the animal does run off. For this reason I don't recommend the behind the shoulder shot with small calibers but they work fine for high shoulder shots.

God Bless, Louis

I just love neck shots. No tracking. No meat damage. DRT

Probably the most famous dog tracking man in South Texas told me if he gets a call and the deer was shot in the neck he doesn't bother bringing his dogs. They never catch one as it is either fatal or they live. Gut shoot one or blow a leg off and he'll catch that one.

M16, Thanks for the earlier field report. I couldn't think of a better method in a target rich enviroment around cattle or a populated area. Instant kill and total bullet destruction every time.

Okay.....just to clear things up. I will NEVER take a body shot on a deer with a .223, no matter what bullet I'm using. But under the right conditions (solid rest, no wind, etc...) I will shoot does at the base of the skull all day long. Our new lease requires lots of does to be shot and I plan on taking quite a few with the .223 but also some with my bow and pistol as well. I'm quite confident in my shooting ability.....might even pop one at the base of the skull with my .300 WSM just to do it.....

For those of you who don't live in Texas, some properties are over-run with does and need to be heavily managed. The easiest way to do this for most, is with a very accurate small caliber rifle with a good scope.....and placing a bullet somewhere right around the base of the skull. I have a good friend of mine that shot over 130 does in one year on a friend's ranch in the Hill Country.....all with head shots from either his .223 or .270.

However, I completely agree that head shots should not be taken if the shooter is not confident in his/her abilities.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Truth is - everyone has different capabilities, training, history-- If you are uncomfortable, insure, untrained, unpracticed--...don't do this until you become proficient and comfortable with it. ...

I disagree with your attempted put-down. What I mentioned has nothing at all to do with shooting proficiency. There is no Training nor Practice to determine when a Deer's Head will move.

A person who has actually spent time afield with Deer will understand the random Head movement(direction or timing) is not predictable. Those that haven't spent time afield, never will.

quote:

your admonishments are indeed humorous

Your attempted put-down is indicative of a Rookie.

Every year me and a buddy take a few does off some golf course property where there are quite a few close neighbors. Nice quiet head shots are a must the does need to drop in their tracks as the neighbors would not like deer dieing in their yard.
The factory round that I have used and works well is the cheap 55 gr hp Winchester stuff that comes in the white box. My hand loaded 50grn Speer tnt hp work great also. When they are looking at you a round placed between the blinkers makes a mess but they don't go any where and no worries about pass through. my buddy used some Barns varmint grenades with the same results.
The does that we take are pets and we can get very close so the shots are easy. I don't normally like head shots, after seeing a deer get it's nose or jaw blown off you will understand why I won't head shoot anything that's over 50 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Growing up around a marksman/hunter

the "Patriot" was not the first time I heard:

"Aim small, miss small"

My very first deer was a head shot,

they and hogs die quickly when properly performed.

One of our hunting places has a head-shot "rule" (for hogs) among the regulars--

Head-shots only and nothing with more power than a .221 Fireball.


This is where the ethics in hunting crowd usually begins their crtitique--

if it's not a certain calibre,

if it's at X-yards its too far,

its not hunting , its sniping

if its not a heart/lung/off-side shoulder shot--

etc, etc


Truth is -

everyone has different capabilities, training, history--

If you are uncomfortable, insure, untrained, unpracticed--

its simple--

don't do this until you become proficient and comfortable with it.

For those that have seen and/or done this for decades ,

your admonishments are indeed humorous ,

so,

Please --

Don't let that stop you.

I agree.

It's kind of like Clint (Dirty Harry) said "A man has gotta know his limitations".

Just seems like some men are more limited than others.

Once again we hear only about the DRT success stories.
I really think this is only a troll thread to stir stuff up. If the poster is truly too ignorant to know a bit about bullet construction, he is too incompetent to be head shooting a deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Truth is - everyone has different capabilities, training, history-- If you are uncomfortable, insure, untrained, unpracticed--...don't do this until you become proficient and comfortable with it. ...

I disagree with your attempted put-down. What I mentioned has nothing at all to do with shooting proficiency. There is no Training nor Practice to determine when a Deer's Head will move.

A person who has actually spent time afield with Deer will understand the random Head movement(direction or timing) is not predictable. Those that haven't spent time afield, never will.

quote:

your admonishments are indeed humorous

Your attempted put-down is indicative of a Rookie.

Poor poor Hotcore

his wittle fewinggs are hurted


the fact is my post actually was not pointed in your direction

however since you made yourself an expedient target--

ONE would think of all people with your VAST experience with .22's

and of course .17's

and not to forget Blue Dot loads

you would be chiming in favorably--


As to status, I have culled privately and professionally--

including suburban golf course deer at night with 300 Whisper/Suppressed/ Nightoptics


highest 1 day deer cull total 17---


Again, practice, training, confidence--

your movement theory does bear consideration --


but only equal to range, wind, angle, distance,

etc, etc


One's ability to process and digest numerous factors quickly either enable one to take the shot--
or alternatively--WAIT--

Patience is actually more important than marksmanship in culling--

Knowing when to wait is FAR more important than actually taking the shot.

Pardon the flourish,

the Clynelish is exceptionally good this evening.

A know nothing keyboard-Hunter expert - aka Rookie!

I was on a deer lease one time where a 2 guys were convinced head shots on doe was the only way to go.

Sadly their skill set and their equipment were not up to the task.

Once you see a few doe walking around with no lower jaw, and some found dead with fringe hits that ran off only to die later, it can put one off of head shots.

I have never met or talked to Eland Slayer, but I seriously doubt that he is a troll.

A question was asked, that many of us, as can be seen from the resposes and their tone, have really strong and set opinions on.

Somethings about the issue continue to surface, that seem to keep being overlooked or taken into consideration.

Instead some of us have started resorting to the usual name calling and insinuating things abiut people we have never met and their abilities.

The things that keep surfacing are:

1. Even though the 223 is quite capable of killing white tails with head and in some cases body shots, some folks feel that the 223 is not enough gun.

2. Most of us tend to agree that the decision to shoot or not shoot at the head, is up to the shooter and their level of skill and confidence.

3. Some of us admit to having seen, and in reality been the shooter, in situations where the headshot created a nasty incident, and the animal was not DRT, and had to be chased down and finished off, or was lost and found dead at a later time with its bottom jaw shot off.

4. Some folks seem to have had a lot of perfect luck while taking such shots.

5. We are ALL so much cooler on line than in person.

If a person wants to take head shots, for what ever their reason, with a 223, then probably any of the standard factory loaded ammo will do the job if the shooter does their part, and the range is not pushed, IMO 150 yards + or -.

I have tried head/neck shots on deer off and on for years.

Never lost a deer and had some really spectacular instant kills.

I have also had some incidents that have made me stop trying such shots for varying lengths of time.

From experience, the only way a person will view head/neck shots from what I feel is a more objective stance, is when they are involved with one where the results are not DRT, and the whole thing goes south on them.

One of my concerns, is how many folks that lurk on these sites, look at these discussions, that do not have the same level of skill/experience/ability that all of us either have or want people to think we have, and decide that if we can do it/at least claim to do it, that they can accomplish the same thing?

Thanks for the level-headed response crazyhorse. I do appreciate it. I never intended to sound like a "troll".....not at all. Honestly, I didn't realize it would be such a controversial subject.

If it makes any of you "anti-headshot" guys feel better.....I plan on ONLY taking shots I'm completely comfortable with. This will mean generally under 100 yards with little or no wind and with the doe calm and looking either away or quartering away, so that I can make a shot to the back of her head/base of her skull (so as to avoid any possibility of hitting her in the jaw or nose). If a doe is nervous or if I'm uncomfortable for any reason, I will simply pass and not take the shot.

I apologize if I offended anyone.....it was not my intention. I have the utmost respect for my quarry and would never attempt a shot that has a high probability of wounding.

ES,
Wouldn't worry about it and no aplogies necessary when asking a sincerce honest question. Some folks here could double as TV evangelists, what with their desire to preach and deliver dictates from on high. Not too many trolls make it 5 years and 1,500 posts unless they are in the "crater". Enjoy your rifle and shoot how you like.
Remember, this is for fun. You'll know if you've sinned with a rifle. You won't need anyone to tell ya'.
Best
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
3. Some of us admit to having seen, ... situations where the headshot created a nasty incident, and the animal was not DRT, and had to be chased down and finished off, or was lost and found dead at a later time with its bottom jaw shot off. ...

That only takes a couple of times for it to get REAL OLD.

During the Deer Season, once it is after legal shooting hours, you can not use a firearm to Kill the wounded Deer, that is Poaching. Soooo..., you first place a call to the Game Warden and tell him you have a Tracking Situation. He might join you, or he might not, hopefully he joins you.

The Dogs are gathered and the Handlers try their best to corner the Deer, which is nearly impossible. You have to carry a Bush Axe in the Southeast just to get through all the Shin-Tangle and Man-Eating Briers. And of course Snake Boots and Snake Chaps which feel so nice and "warm" when it dips into the 80degs at 4AM.

Finally after running from 10PM until 4AM, you "might" have the Deer. All the land you, the additional Trackers, the Handlers and the Dogs covered is now saturated with Sweaty Man Scent and Dog Scent. For you expert "Head Shooters", that means the TROPHY Bucks and the vast majority of the Deer Herds decide to go elsewhere.

You normally just stay up, because it won't be long until it is time to take the next group of Hunters out and place them on Stands where they have a good chance of seeing and properly Killing a Trophy Buck.

And where is the expert "Head Shooter" who had "practice, training, confidence"??? Oh, he had to go on home and left around 9:30PM the night before.

Those expert "Head Shooters" do become "Legends" on the Hunting Plantations.

perhaps those with more experience than I could instruct me as to the correct emoticon in re this topic............



or



or even



GWB

It's not truely a topic deserving of AR until it's degenerated to this:



and this:



3 more pages of stuff like that, and the thread will be complete!