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one of us |
Last night I was looking through the Animal Planet's website with my step-daughter and decided to do a search on the word "hunting". This is what I found: quote:Then, this morning, I read an article in Newsweek about CWD in Wisconson and noticed that the number of hunters in the US has declined by (I believe) 9% in the past decade. So, my question is, are we really a breed that is going to die out? While I don't think I should be surprised by these numbers, I am troubled by it. | ||
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| one of us |
Why would you accept those numbers, they have historically made these studies come out just like the folks that pay for them want..it is the oldest trick in the book. | |||
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| one of us |
I hate to be negetive, BUT ! This world is going for shit! Hunters are a dying breed... Faggits and Homo's are on the increase... Try to figure that one out. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} Daryl | |||
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| one of us |
Well, yes and no. The numbers are accurate, but don't show the larger picture. The decline in total hunter numbers is due in part to the reduction in the number of "casual" rural hunters and in part to the disappearance of once-a-year urban hunters who just don't participate anymore. In the first instance, the numbers largely coincide with the decline in truly rural residents (as opposed to ex-urban commuters living on 5-acre ranchettes). These missing rural residents (who used to be farmers, ranch hands, loggers, etc.) were also hunters, mostly because they were located in the country, had good access to hunting, and it was an inexpensive pasttime where there were few other recreational diversions. Now that the truly rural population is growing ever-smaller and ever-older, these former hunters just aren't there anymore in the numbers they used to be. This demographic accounts for the largest portion of the decline in license sales (the measurement of hunter participation). The second category of hunter number decline is in the former once-a-year urban hunter who has been largely priced out of the market. He used to have a cheap converted military Mauser or a rifle or shotgun left to him by a relative. He also had a relative "back on the farm" whose place he could stay at and hunt on. Now, his cousin has died or sold the place to a doctor from Dallas, and he has no place to stay and no place to hunt. Besides that, his kids are involved in (soccer, baseball, Kwa Ton Ko, ad nauseum), and his wife has convinced him to buy a timeshare in Branson where they are committed for one entire week of his annual vacation. A couple of years ago, he looked into setting up a hunt, but found out that it would cost him a half month's wages to get in on a marginal deer lease with 11 other guys, and an out-of-state hunting license would cost him more than a house payment -- if he happened to draw one. In other words, this guy hasn't got the time or money to be a hunter anymore. The first is a circumstance of a culture which offers more recreational diversions than we can handle, and the second is a result of those of us who are "serious" hunters bidding up the price of hunting. I'm pretty familiar with these trends because I've spent the last several years professionally in rural economics and redevelopment. What the numbers do not reflect is how many more "serious" hunters there are now as compared to a generation ago. Just look at the huge volume of slick, expensive magazines on the newsstand devoted to hunting, the high prices commanded by premium hunts (which have risen faster than the rate of inflation), and the ever-increasing number of landowners who find that managing for hunting is much more profitable than managing for agriculture or forestry. Anecdotal reports from small rural shopowners indicate that traffic and spending by enthusiastic and "serious" hunters is at an all-time high. But is the loss of the casual hunter a threat? Yes. The fewer people who have a vested interest in game management, habitat, and hunting equipment (spelled g-u-n-s), the less the public demand to adopt policies favorable to those interests. Therefore, it behooves us to reach out to our non-hunting friends and help make it possible for them to be hunters, and more importantly to reach out to other non-hunters to explain our legitimate interests. | |||
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| one of us |
We are definitely a dying breed. The mainstream of American life has past us by. (The face of Africa is changing at a phenominal rate for different reasons.) In my family my fathter's generation was the last raised on a farm. When I was a kid growing up in New Mexico hunting was mainstream recreation. Up until high school age it was an excused absence if you were going deer hunting, even if you were just going with your dad while he hunted. When you came back the next week everyone was interested in your trip, and whether you were successful. By the time I got out of high school, the whole picture had begun changing. It happened in the larger cities first. People don't have to live off the land anymore, and frankly don't know how; and most consider it a useless skill. Hunting will never be more popular than it is today. We have less land all the time to hunt on. Costs are escalating, and gun ownership is more restrictive. I don't see any factor that will reverse the trend. When I hunt I try to suck in the whole experience, because I know it may never be as good tomorrow. | |||
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| one of us |
everyone needs to do your part to promote hunting in as positive a light as possible. 1) i have photos on my desk at work of my wife with her deer she just shot (a nice, clean image). 2) i talk about positive outcomes of hunting for wildlife conservation, etc (just yesterday i mentioned to a co-worker why African countries that allowed hunting generally had less problems with poaching and consequently more wildlife) 3) take your wife and (more importantly) your kids with you when you go hunting or camping. make outdoors their sport (instead of soccer). will it cost more? probably, but in the long run, taking them with you is better than leaving them at home. i take my 2 year old with me when we go camping every summer (her first camping trip was as a collicy 1 month old) and have taken her on dove hunts . . . her first deer hunt sitting with dad or mom will probably be when she's 4 or so. she may not kill a deer for a couple of years, but she will be hunting. i'm sure i'll have her squirrel hunting at a young age, as well. in this way, we shape the future generations of hunters. (incidentally, my wife always wanted to go hunting with her dad as a kid, but her mother wouldn't let her 'cause it wasn't "ladylike" - now she hunts almost as intensely as me) 4) take others with you, where possible (public land, land you control access to) and where appropriate. you can either sit back and moan about "hunting will be gone by 2050" or you can act now to ensure our hunting heritage. we may not win, but we'll go down swinging! | |||
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| one of us |
Stonecreek, very interesting. I'd have to agree on the urban hunter. In fact, shooting itself is slipping away as an urban pastime, except for south dallas ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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one of us |
I've said for a long time that I wish we were once again a nation of riflemen instead of a nation of golfers. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Scott: Right you are about the decline of shooting as a pastime for ubanites. I lived on a farm and ranch all of my life up until a few years ago. If I didn't have some rural property to go to for shooting, I doubt that I'd be shooting much at all, other than for actual hunting. The shooting ranges are few and far between (and when you do find one, it tends to be frequented by some, shall we say, marginal types). | |||
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| Moderator |
Stonecreek, Kensco, Tcensore260 ... fine posts. As this theme always leaves me with a heavy feeling in my chest, I'll keep my comments brief. Although I have two sons and two nephews, when I'm gone, there will be no hunters in my family. On three occasions, in recent years, I fought and supported the good but unsuccessful fight to preclude private landownership from isolating parcells of public hunting land in my state. Few visitors to my home these days inquire about my hunting activities, let alone ask to see my den, especially so, when the wife or girlfriend is along. A sprinkling of ardent hunters I once knew have passed on ... others have foresaken their former passion in deference to pressures, both wifely and "PC". I find I must agree with Kensco's thinking on the subject and join him in "sucking it up", taking solace in the fact that I was able to enjoy the outdoors from a hunters perspective throughout my lifetime. I will, however, continue to work at and support sporthunting in any way possible. | |||
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| One of Us |
When the hunters die out...so will the wildlife they hunted. I think we are the last bastions supporting the animals and their habitat. It is hunting revenue that keeps them alive and the states interested in protecting them. Take away hunting revenue and the wilds will soon be housing developments. JMHO ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
Yeah the casual guy is getting cut out. I know since the shift from rural to urban in 50 years has basically reversed itself % wise. Sears used to carry firearms in its cataloque, you used to be able to ammo at any HW store more and more are dropping due to increased regs and so forth. I grew up in the 70's and you used to see a rifle rack in the window of almost EVERY truck. 5% is still millions of people in Canada and 10's of millions in the states. So we have still a significant voice and from the last stats I saw 90% of non hunters still support the right of hunters. On the plus side is less people in the country means a lot more targets White tail were almost wiped out in Sask in the 20's cause it was a food source. Now they come begging for hunters to help cull the herds ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} I think most places appreciate the fact that hunters are some of their best hopes of population control. | |||
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| <Hoghead> |
I'm only going to tell you guys this one time!!! Hear me and hear me good!!! TAKE A KID HUNTING WHENEVER YOU CAN!!! Have a nice day. | ||
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One of Us |
Nickudu, I feel your pain. Most all of what was once a fine group of hunters that I had the pleasure of reuniting with once a year have mostly become either pissed off because of quadroupling liscence fees and declining hunting quality, or just too old to care about it anymore. I am the hold out, the die hard. Hunting is becoming largly a lonley sport thesedays, but I still love it as much as ever. This year my boy is getting his first pellet gun for X-mas, I can only hope that he gains an appreciation for the great things that my father passed on to me. | |||
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| <ovis> |
JL, Great post! I would agree, you'd have to be blind not to realize that not only are hunters in decline but areas to hunt(read habitat)are in serious trouble from all angles. I've just finished taking part in my fortieth hunting season. The only thing I killed was time. The folks I went with were all very sucessful. Most of them were spending what free time they had to do what they loved the most. Some had their dreams come true, one sat in camp and marvelled at the surroundings and reveled in the comradery with the others in camp for a week, never left camp until the Super Cub picked him up. I know in my heart that the end of real hunting as we've known it is a generation or two away. It hurts to think, that unless there is a major societal change, I think we've seen the best of it. The statistics don't lie. I'm 52 now, most of my friends are playing golf rather than hitting the bush. Me, I hope I die with a rifle in my hand, in the Brooks Range, chasing mountain grizzly. I think J.A. Hunter said it best: "The day may come when the camera will take the place of the gun in African hunting. In many ways, it will no doubt, be a fine thing.Yet I am glad that I lived in a time when a man went out against the great animals with a rifle in his hands instead of a device to take pictures. Sometimes, I think the animals themselves may have liked it better too." I, too, feel this way about Alaska. For me, Life is good. Joe | ||
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| one of us |
A lot of good thoughts and ideas here. I have given this some thought today also. I'm going to make it my goal in life to get two people hunting. Whether it's my kids or a friend or whatever. Just two people who probably wouldn't have taken up hunting without my help. That way, after I'm gone, we'll still be up one ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
In a word, I think the answer to this question is yes. I've taught my two daughters and son to shoot, but getting opportunities to hunt is very difficult. | |||
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one of us |
Hunting as I knew IS gone, from the lands I knew and hunted. That type of experience is out there for one who wants and seeks it out, but the opportunities are changing as we speak. I'm not ready to say that we as a breed are dying, but there sure has been a metamorphosis in the last hundred years. Not all bad, but not all good either. Pecos45 has made a valid observation on the impact on wildlife as it relates to hunters, we as a group have done more good in helping wildlife than maybe any other group around. When wildlife has been reduced to pest status, it will be a sad day indeed for wildlife. | |||
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| <heavy varmint> |
I am glad to say that I do not see this problem in my area. Most I know devote alot of time off and at least a week of vacation time to hunting. I will check on the number of resident hunting liscense issued but would be surprised if there is a decline. | ||
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| one of us |
I hope to offer a little hope. I just completed my first ever hunt at age 31. I am involved in shooting sports though I only started shooting and reloading around 1996. I will be reconditioning an old Stevens 22LR and a Win. M 197 with a friend early next year as time allows. he has been out of shooting for a number of years. We both have young sons who wwe will be teacching to shoot and hunt(hopefully) I grew up in a smallish city/town with hunters but i never had the opportunity to go with anyone. Now that I am older and discoving these activities for myself I am finding there just isn't enough time or money to go aas often as I'd like. I have also interested a number of other friends in shooting sports(now just need my wife to come too ). Given the cost in time and money to truly hunt I am not surprised that many Americans have chosen golf and television. We have also seen a reducion in huntable land, and in my state (CA) the DFG has done a horrible job managing the resources. Maybe like water we hunters are seeking our own level so as to not put too much pressure on the resources. of course the Baby Boomers are getting up in age too and as they stop hunting the numbers will definately show that "hunters are leaving the sport" Like on poster stated the numbers may point that direction, but not show the whole story. take some one shooting/hunting with you...it's the way the sport survives.[ 12-12-2002, 12:52: Message edited by: Dave In LB ] | |||
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One of Us |
When I was a kid I grew up on a farm. My father didn't hunt or shoot but had a very rusty shotgun and 22 in the shed for pests on the farm. (my grandfather was a great hunter as was his ancestors, so its in the genes, you see). I watched TV etc and everything a kid sees is "Hunters = Bad". They kill the "lovely" animals Tarzan is trying to save etc etc. Elmer Fudd is always an idiot in the cartoons and the rabbit wins. etc etc Somehow I started shooting. Completely self taught. And one day I realised all that indoctrination was a load of garbage and I loved hunting, it isn't bad and shooting an animal isn't evil. No different from slaughtering a cow for meat and a lot more fun. The sad thing is so many - read 95% + - of kids never get the spark of inspiration. Especially in the cities. They either don't care, which is better, or are anti - which is the worst outcome. The schools here also used to have "army cadets". The lefty faggots put an end to that. Gun handling. Pro-military. Discipline. Patriotic. Can't have any of that. There's much more important things, such as endless worrying about discrimination, equal opportunities, affirmative action, teaching kids about how to determine their sexual "orientation" etc. And the fact that the teaching colleges seem to turn out more and more lefty, homo loving, anti-gun, anti-hunting teachers just makes it harder and harder for kids to decide for themselves. I attended a clay target shoot sponsored by Winchester for school kids once, when I was in the final year, and drove a car load of kids in my year and the next two younger years. I wonder if such a thing is possible today? Probably a teacher supporting such a thing would be ostracized. I also occasionally donate pro-hunting animal books to local schools and libraries. Good way to start a "spark" in some kids. I think the SCI type programmes where they take groups of kids to a hunting museum or taxidermy collection and talk about the animals is great. Often even the "anti" kids come away more positive. Just some ideas. | |||
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| one of us |
I guess what I see is that hunting is becoming more and more related to income. I would bet that those individuals or outfits involved with booking and guiding hunts have seen a significant increase in their revenue over the years. Take a look at Sporting Classics magazine - there adds reflect a very well to do reader clientel - and when I talked to the subsciption department they told me the magazine and demand for add space was growing rapidly. Where I use to hunt by permission in Montana - next to my inlaws property - you can't anymore - the land is now exclusively leased to a non-resident group - ranchers have discovered that deer and pheasants are worth far more than cows or wheat. My god - look what it costs to go bear hunting in Alaska - there is certainly no decrease in demand for expensive out of state licenses to hunt Montana or the other western states - even residents in these states are becoming more and more restricted to hunting only on federal land. The arms manufacturers are producing new and pricey weapons at an astonishing rate - and look at all the demand there is for custom 45 auto's - talk about an expanding business market. We are a free market society and the sad truth is those with the most money will have access to the most fun - and as there becomes more and more of us (people) the land value and the treasures it holds will become more and more expensive - so I guess - teach your child to shoot, hunt and get a good education - and if you can afford it - buy land - lots of it. | |||
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one of us |
quote:Stonecreek great post! I totally agree with Hoghead which is why I took a 13 year-old kid with me on my elk hunt. One of the problems I see is too many of us are so focused on our hunt that we do not arrange it so we can take a kid hunting with us. I scheduled my elk hunt so I would be able to take the kid home after 3 days should it not work out. As it was we had a great time and we spent the whole trip together. AND it was more rewarding to me than I had imagined!!!! There are a lot of things "we" hunters can do. Become a Hunter Ed instructor. Not only are you teaching safe hunting and ethics you make yourself more aware of the issues and you gain pride in your own hunting tradition. If you don't want to be a full fledged instructor, offer to be a guest speaker at a class and impart some of you wisdom. I would gladly invite other hunters to demonstrate how the do this or that, like field dressing an animal or how to safely handle firearms. I think we need to look within our own ranks and become more involved within our own communities. When my daughter was in elementry school they put on a evening of supplementry teaching on any number of subjects NOT related to normal school subjects. I asked for and got permission to teach the Eddie Eagle program of "Don't touch, etc. etc." I was asked if I intended to bring in firearms to the school? I responded with "You teach sex education and I hope you don't demonstrate that in school" which got a nervous laugh and an OK from the Superintendent of Schools. Get out there in your communities and show by your involvment that hunters are not evil. | |||
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| <Buliwyf> |
Take a look at the "Shame this forum has deteriorated" to see first hand the damage that fellow sportsmen do to one another. I can not imagine degrading a fellow hunter's family member as stated in that post. Could it be the act of an anti-hunter group to attack members here at AR to damper enthusiasm for the shooting sports? I would certainley hope it was not a hunter attacking his or her fellow brothers and sisters. All of us are representatives of our sport worldwide. We all have the responsibility to conduct ourselves as a well-behaved community. | ||
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| one of us |
Atkinson: I'll agree with you 100 percent on that!! | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Great goal. Russ | |||
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| one of us |
Want to find kids who need a hunting mentor? Find your local Big Brothers/Big Sisters Pass It On coordinator. There are many ways to help, from Big For A Day (minimal commitment) to BB/BS Sponsor, where you take on mentoring a child for 6 mo to a year. Whatever you do, get involved. Complaining helps little, if any. | |||
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| one of us |
It would certainly seem like hunters are on the decline but how does one explain that I see more and more hunters out each time I go? I hunt mainly birds in Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Nebraska and Oklahoma and, it seems, I see more and more hunters every year. One could argue that it's because there is less land to hunt but the acres of walk-in areas (private land leased to the state for public hunting) have increased almost every year. Granted, I drive four to seven hours each direction to hunt. Hunting does get expensive if you do it frequently enough. The cost of motels (or a camper payment), food, gas (very high) and time away from home is expensive. My friends that hunt can't even hunt as often as I do. I don't know any young kids to even take hunting although I'd love to pass it on. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:See my post just before yours. | |||
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one of us |
No hunters aren't a dying breed. I plan replace the older hunters and make hunting sexy again!!! Damnit there needs to be like a good hunting movie or something to boost interest. | |||
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| one of us |
We probably are a dying breed. The newer generation has too many who want instant gratification and constant action. Perhaps it's due to computer games, TV etc. My own son has stopped hunting because he didn't like to get up early and didn't like the cold. Here in PA we tend to coddle the young hunters too. They don't have to follow the same antler restriction laws, they're given a special group of early seasons that adult hunters don't have. I'm not in favor of that. The time to teach the rules are when they're young. If we could teach them that it's hunting, not shopping, and bringing something home is not the do all and end all of hunting, they would be better off. As a teacher, I try to bring in the importance of hunting as a biological control over populations. It gets harder each year. Bob257 | |||
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| one of us |
Stonecreek, great post, very thoughtfull. I would not have thought that the number of hunters was going down untill I read this. It seems like I see more hunters and less game each year. | |||
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| one of us |
I've been trying to go hunting around here for the last two years. Available land is scarce, and no one in my family hunts. I have a few aquaintances who do, but they are on private land, and the land owners haven't been receptive to my approaches. I had to sit out the whole season this year. I have my liscense, tags, gun, but no place to go. I don't hav the time to drive 45 minutes and scout an area, work late, wife and 2 kids, not much vacation time. I'm going to keep trying, but it is frustrating, I've got no one helping me out here. Speaking of which, how do you get started in this? Whitetail deer. Dave | |||
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| one of us |
quote:Like Deliverance? | |||
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| <EricH> |
Only dying will keep me from hunting in 2050. | ||
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| <JOHAN> |
quote:Very true indeed. One can show everything and nothing with studies and statistics. My teacher in statistic analysis said: "if you have one foot in the freezer and one on a hot stove you would be doing prefectly normal from a statistical point of view" ![[Eek!]](images/icons/shocked.gif){kind=icon} I friend of mine just became daddy, twin boy's. I went off to the gun shop and bought baby ear muff's for them. I have finally found two boy's that will become future hunters. The animal lovers are a bigger danger to the game population, than anythingelse. I hate anti hunters, ass pickers and silly teachers who are spreading lies /JOHAN [ 12-15-2002, 23:28: Message edited by: JOHAN ] | ||
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| <mbkddd> |
Figures don't lie, but liers do figure.... | ||
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| One of Us |
quote:Dave, The forum is a really good place to look for some answers. I suggest that you begin a thread right here in the big game forum entitled something like "looking for help with upstate NY whitetails". There are a few guys from that area who frequent this forum. Good luck! | |||
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| one of us |
As a follow-up to this post, I thought I'd post another article I just read. It really makes an interesting point about the reduction in the number of hunters: quote:Here is the article: quote:from: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1215women-hunt15.html [ 12-21-2002, 00:05: Message edited by: JLHeard ] | |||
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