If you've used any of the large-caliber InterLock bullets on elk, what were your experiences/results and what caliber/weight were you using? What was your shot presentation and distance?

Russ

I've used the interlocks in pretty much every size they make (everytime I'm in Nebraska I wander over to Grand Island). I would not feel at a disadvantage using these bullets in elk/moose appropriate caliber. The only time they gave me problems was out of a 7 STW at about 30 yards. They were 140 gr and I was really hunting whitetails, but happened to have a moose tag when one showed up on the cutline. The moose still died, but all I found were pieces of that bullet. It must have been going 3400 fps when it hit him, though. FWIW - Dan

Russ, if I went into a blow-by-blow account of my elk experiences with Hornady bullets, it would take too much space.

Suffice to say, I've had a number of Hornady's work with superb results, and I've had a few of them come apart before really getting inside where they do the most good. I suppose I've killed over a dozen bulls with Hornady's out of cartridges like the 7mm Remington Magnum, .300 Win. Mag., .338 Win. Mag., .30-06, and .375 H&H. In my recovered bullet collection, I have maybe a half-dozen that look like perfectly expanded, textbook specimens, and several that are a collection of fragments. Some went clear through and weren't recovered, or else fragmented so completely that they couldn't be recovered.

I prefer to shoot elk through the shoulders to get them on the ground quickly, and Hornady's aren't always up to this task. If the jacket splits past the cannelure, the Inter-Loct band can't be counted upon to retain the core and the bullet will often come apart. Hornady is hardly the last work in elk bullets, and I simply don't use them any more for elk hunting, as I consider them rather unpredictable.

Great elk bullets begin with the Nosler Partition, and include the Winchester Fail-Safe, Trophy Bonded, Swift A-Frame, and some of the other super-premiums. The only way I'd hunt elk with Hornady's anymore is if the rifle I wanted to use wouldn't shoot acceptably with anything else, meaning one of the premiums.

Whee it comes to elk bullets, I don't worry about bullet cost, and refuse to practice false economy. It is also my belief that too many guys (paper punchers at heart) are all hung up over statistical accuracy, and have elk hunting requirements confused with the eternal quest for that great icon, "benchrest accuracy". They'll choose some sort of "tin foil" bullet because it shoots half-inch groups off the bench, and they'll disdain a better-constructed, tougher projectile because it "only" produces 1" to 1.5" groups.

AD

[ 11-25-2002, 04:29: Message edited by: allen day ]

Well I'm not concerned with "statisical accuracy" but I have shot a lot of game, mostly whitetails & moose with Horn interlocks & I'm not sure you could force me to switch to " cost is no object " premium bullets because interlocks always work perfectly, if they don't pass completely thru,weather out of a 300mag,308 or 280 at close range or long range.

P. S. They are also almost always VERY accurate.

Allen,
If you're recovering bullets,and while in the process of recovering those bullets you didn't have to chase an elk all around the mountian,I'd say they were very predictable as they obviously killed the elk didn't they??

So what if the bullet fragmented and wasn't picture perfect?You took it from a dead elk didn't you?Did it kill the elk quicky?If it did,then it did it's job,which is to kill game,NOT to make for a pretty catalog photo or something to look nice on your dresser.

Sometimes the only shot available after many days of mountain climbing with a rifle (aka: elk hunting) is the rear end of the only bull you've seen or will see... I'd not take that shot with any Hornady bullet, but would (and have) with a Nosler Partition with perfect results... I'm in Allen's camp... IMO, non-premium's on big bull elk in the timber is "false economy."

Brad

Yeah I am defianately in the same camp as Brad and Allen on this one.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

All hunting bullet except the 100% copper bullets are constructed of a copper jacket and lead core. Their is very little if any difference in a premium or so called run of the mill hunting bullet like Sierra, Hornaday, or Speer produces. The major flaw in any hunting bullets performance is the hunter does not place his shots properly. Distance to target and angles of bullet entry have much to do with bullet performance no matter who made that bullet. The perfect shot senario is the game animal standing broadside so the bullet will strike the heart lung area. Should that game animal be standing so that broad side shot is not possible, then anything can and will happen when the animal is stuck by the bullet no matter who made that bullet. Bullets being constructed of a copper jacket and lead core make them basically all the same and one is no better than the other, only in the shooters mind.

I know of a few hunters who used them on Kudu and Eland and they worked fine

Regardless of how much money one spends in preparation or how hard one works to place the intended quarry in the crosshairs, when the trigger is squeezed, all ones' hopes ride with the instrument of death ... and for such moments, I want the best instrument I can find. Instruments which perform, as hoped, on a higher percentage of occasions, across a wider variety of shot presentations.

[ 11-25-2002, 16:56: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Brian, I can think of at least one gunwriter who coyly tried to come at this subject from the same angle that you are on this thread - that if a bullet fragments and the animal is yet killed and recovered, wherein lies the failure?

That sounds reasonable and right, but it's a very misleading assumption to make, and as far as I'm concerned, that particluar gunwriter was dealing in half-truths and playing a game of hocus pocus with his audience. If a bullet comes apart without getting inside and the animal has to be followed up and finished off with another shot, that first bullet failed, pure and simple. That's the sort of failure I've experienced (not only with Hornady on occasion, but Speer and Sierra bullets), and that's the sort of circumstance that produced one of the recovered, fragmented Hornady bullets I was referring to.

John Nosler didn't pioneer the premium bullet concept because he didn't have anything better to do with his time, nor did other experienced hunters like Jack Carter who created Trophy Bonded bullets. They saw an need based on their own disappointments with the field performance of conventional bullets.

AD

I am a big proponent of Hornady and shoot hundreds each year, but they are not an elk bullet. If you have a broadside shot and don't hit heavy bone, they'll kill very well. They will blow up on heavy bone, and may or may not anchor your bull. I don't know how many elk I've had to follow up that were shot with Hornadys or Core-Lokts or Power Points by other hunters some never recovered. I almost always use X bullets.

66: Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong with your statement. If we follow your logic and transpose it to say, automobiles, why buy a Mercedes when the same materials are used to build both of them? It is said, that a picture is worth a thousand words, well go here: www.kateydid.com/hunter. There, you will see recovered bullets. The obviously "failed" one was a 180gr Hornady out of a 300 Weatherby recoverd from a 90lb impala shot at 80 yards on the shoulder. Yes the animal dropped like a rock, but had that same shoulder been an eland ( or an elk) the results would have been very much different. I'm with Allen and the rest on this one. Use the best bullet your rifle can shoot and go from there. I use Hornadies a lot, but I limit their use to 2700 & below and on deer sized animals if I can haelp it. jorge

Stick with particians or x bullets and you will be happy!!!

Okay, guys, okay. I'll place a bulk order for Partitions and be done with it.

Thanks.

Russ

Russell, just a little observation here, but I believe you actually have to "SEE" an elk before you need to worry about what bullet to use. After reading your recent account of elk hunting I'd say 22 rimfire would of served you just as well. Dem's da breaks I guess.

My elk load is the 250g RN Interlock powered by BLC-2. The velocity from my Whelen chrones at 2560 fps. I've taken 5 elk with this load and rifle. My Whelen is only 5 years old by the way. The furthest shot taken was @ 250 yards on a small racked 4x4 bull taken in 97' facing me. The bullet penetrated 4 ft. of elk and lodged in the hindquarter. Distance traveled was around 50 ft after it was shot. The bullet was mangled but what do you expect from punching thru a breastbone and innards. The other 4 elk were cows shot anywhere from 50 ft to @150 yards. One was shot in the head and the rest were taken behind the shoulder. All were one shot kills. Prior to my Whelenization of my rifle, my kill all load was the 190g Hornady BTSP in my 06'. I shot that bullet for many years. I have a 6'5 black bear on my wall I shot in 96' from about 100 yards away with that bullet. Hornady's have always worked for me and I can't say nothing bad about them yet. Shot placement is the key from what most posters can attest to. I personally don't see a need to spend the extra money on Partitions which cost me $32.70 for 50 when I can buy 100 Hornady 250g RN's for almost 19 bucks. I also shoot the 250g Speer Hot Cores with good results as well with Reloader 15.

Of the three elk shot with my 7mm Rem. Mag using 175 grain Hornady Interlock Spire Points and a stiff load of Re22, I have had varied results.

First elk shot at 25 yards, slightly quartering towards. Small entrance wound with slightly larger exit wound. Elk dropped where it stood. No bones hit.

Second elk shot at 225 yards. Quartering away. Hit rib on entrance. Took out heart and some lungs. Core seperated from jacket, with jacket ending up in offside shoulder. Jacket was split all the way to the "lock" on the core. Looked like core and bone fragments exited left side of chest. Elk dropped where it stood.

Third elk shot at same distance. Hit spine and kept going. Elk dropped where it stood.

Not a comprehensive evaluation, but ended with 3 dead elk. These were all cows, but the last two were pretty big. Would I feel comfortable taking these shots on a big bull? Yeah, they shoot very accurately in my gun and did a fair amount of damage on the way out.

Allen Day,
Thank you for your well written and rational response.

I still disagree with you,but that's life.There are just as many elk lost every year with Nosler Partitions and Barnes Xs as there are by Hornadys and Remington Core-Locts.This is mostly because lots of folks think if they stuff a premium bullet into their case,it's automaticaly going to kill every elk they gut shoot.

Brian.

Russel I've shot the Nosler bullets as well as the Hornady's for Elk. The performance with both was good. One-shot kills. Now the difference that I see is accuracy, which equates to bullet placement the more critical issue here. The Hornady's shoot 3/4" in my gun the Nosler's 1 1/4" and the Barnes X have never seen one shoot well in person from any gun. Should have been here yesterday and plenty of excuses like that. In my rifle the best group ever was 1.75" at 100 yards. Now at 350 + yards that becomes a pretty big group. I'm using the Hornady's in my 7mm Remington with good results. The last kill was at 50' the bullet did not exit the animal it was just under the hind on the far side. A prefect mushroom and maintained its integrity and well as most of its weight. Oh yes this was a 162 SPBT and the stories about BT separation well an urban myth as far as I'm concerned. The biggest part of killing game in my opinion is shot placement. If the bullets you shoot don't produce very small groups that likelihood disappears. So I think what I'd do is find a bullet that shoots best in my gun that has a reputation of killing game. Forget about the Premium bullet myth it is proven wrong every hunting season. Now if I was hunting dangerous game in Africa or Brown Bears in Alaska or Canada the Premium bullets have some merit they will hold together better and when you shooting one of these kind of animals they are close and in some case charging they give you that ability to break bone and have the bullet hold together. This is close in and personal. But with Elk it�s just as likely to be 500 yards as fifty feet. I�m going to opt for shot placement over just hitting the animal with something that will not break up. Over the years the Elk that I've seen shot and that ran any distance were poorly shot bottom line.

[ 11-26-2002, 03:07: Message edited by: Oleman ]

Muzzle velocity is the culprit to any conventional bullet's failures. If that number is 2700fps or less then good terminal performance will happen with great regularity, even at close range. Boost that velocity to 3000+fps and it becomes questionable at all but the longest ranges, ie 300+yds.
Enough hunters have enough good results to ever convince them that a premium bullet is worthwhile, at least until they loose a good animal due to bullet failure. Use whatever you like, it's nobody's trophy but your own.

Well, I did say "large" caliber. I don't generally look upon .30-caliber and 7mm as "large." That's just me, perhaps. I was thinking in the .375-caliber area, actually, at .375 H&H Magnum velocities, and considering the 270-grain InterLock. Still, I appreciate the input.

Russ

[ 11-26-2002, 04:38: Message edited by: Russell E. Taylor ]

My experience pretty much parallels Allan Days with Hornady bullets...I know they work better at 06 velocity than at magnum velocity or so it seems to me....I like Hornadys on deer and antelope but not on elk, Moose, eland, or Kudu...I use big heavy for caliber Woodleighs or Noslers and North Forks, notice these are all premiums...I believe in premium bullets. I have seen a number of Hornday Interlockes come apart on the larger animals. They seem to perform well most of the time with an ocassional failure, but one failure will tend to kill sales with me.

Whelenatic: My preferred load is a 200 Gr. X bullet in front of BLC-2 for elk. The longest shot on elk as been a bit over 300 yd., the shortest 20 yds. The 250 Gr. roundnoses out of Whelen will probably work fine. I tried 250 Gr. Grand Slams, but the X's penetrate as well, don't break up, and are more accurate in my Whelen. I heard they have since quit making the 200 X, but I have enough for a few more years.

Nosler this nosler that, yada yada yada. Barnes claims that their bullets are so tough and mean that a guy can step down one size from conventional bullets and enjoy a bit flatter trajectory. The fact is this is probably more true when applied the other way around. Just use a little more conventional bullet than what "might" do the job. I believe that a 190 gr Hornady would be better for elk than a 180 simply because the longer jacket is more jacket, its tougher and will penetrate more and thus case seperation will be less likley to occur. I doubt if there is an Elk on the planet that could withstand Whelenatic's hornady loads. Its the same as it ever was, match the load, rifle and game to be suitable.

On a personal note I never aim for shoulders or tear up a rump, the base of the neck and behind the shoulder kills um just as dead, but thats another thread.

I have used Hornady bullets on a number of deer and elk and have always gotten the animal. I shot a cow elk at a measured 277 yards one time and had a complete pass through of both shoulders. I have also had the bullets fail to exit on heavy bone hits. I think that it was well stated on one post where it was said that the closer you get to 3000 fps, the worse the Hornadys will perform. I think that they are great deer bullets, but possibly leave some room for improvement on elk. I just shot a whitetail doe running away from me at about 200 yards, I shot her right up the backside and it dynamited the pelvis and killed her very dead. I don't think that my 175 Hornady (7 mm mag at 2800 fps) penetrated much past the pelvis. Hornadys are cheaper than most premiums and are very accurate, but I think that I will try something else for elk. Does anyone have an opinion on Hawk bullets(other than the high price)?

Russ
I got your PM and answered it.

Actualy,I think you'ld be well served by the Hornady 300 grain RN on elk.Folks wack everything from dik-dik to cape buffalo every year with it.Ray will vouch for it being a great bullet,as will Mike375,who has probibly had more experience with the 375 than anyone on earth and that includes H&H and Elmer Keith (who once said "the 375 is actualy a pretty good deer gun" ).

Put that big Hornady through a bull elk at just about any angle short of a full fledged gut shot and he'll go down quick.I really don't think you "need" a Nosler Partition in a 375 for elk if your throwing 300 grains of lead,but when did "need" every apply with the workings of gun nuts??

Amen to hunting being better than doing anything else.I hunted the entire muzzeloader season here (2 weeks),and had a grand time just being out in the hills with the deer.On the second to last day I dropped the hammer on a buck no bigger than a buck I could have killed opening morning not 50 yards from the rig.But then I wouldn't have had the fun of all those days of being in the hills.

Of course,in hindsight,I wish I would have chosen to shoot that buck instead of the buck I ended up shooting.The one I ended up shooting was at the bottom of about the nastiest looking canyon you'll ever see in Kalifornia.He weighted 120 pounds at the bottom,and I swear he weighted 250 when we got him to the top.

Let us know how the 375 turns out.

Brian.

Russ:

The only elk I've shot with a Hornady bullet were taken with 180 grain .30 Spire Points in .300 Weatherby Magnum. None were shot from bad angles and two were one-shot instant kills, one at 40 yards and the other at about 80. The third had been shot at twice by others when he came by me and his adrenalin was well up. He took two. My first shot angled through from the last rib on the near side and exited just behind the shoulder on the off side, stopping him but not dropping him. He turned broadside as he stopped and the second shot broke the near shoulder, wrecked the chest, broke the off shoulder and exited. This shot was at roughly 300 yards.

My dad took two bulls on the same trips with his .300 Weatherby using the same load. One was at about 80 and the other was maybe 350. He took a third on another trip to Vermejo Park with the same rifle and load. We didn't recover a bullet or a bullet fragment from any of those bulls, and we looked.

I like Noslers, but in the caliber and weight that you seem to be contemplating the Interlocks will be fine. I agree with Oleman about the poor accuracy of the X. To that I would add bad fouling and too little expansion - or none at all.
--------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have no doubt that the only reason I got my moose this year is because I was shooting a bonded bullet that held together so that when I shot it through a 4-6" pine (moving shot)it had enough integrity and juice left to penetrate the animal

I can only tell you my expereince on African Game but if you keep the velocity below 2600 fps and you use a big enough bullet for penetration as they do tend to open up quite quickly you are ok.

They are not the best bullets especially if you are going to pay for your elk hunt and by reading some of the posts elk hunting requires long shots. And for long shots you need velocity which is the problem with hornady.

Oh forgive me Wussell you are so smart and insightful. I forgot about your mastery of doe hunting. Yup a 22 rimfire would of worked just fine if you had the skill to get closer than 200 yards. I can't compete with your prowess though, you spent a week in Montana and didn't see a single elk or a buck worth shooting. I've only spent one day hunting elk in Montana (without a paid guide) and killed a 300+ 6x6, and in 5 days of hunting mule deer this year I only saw 40 bucks. Most of them were 4x4's or better. If I ever need to find mule deer does I'll know who to call. Oh wait, that's right I saw plenty of those this year as well, guess you won't be getting a call unless I need a lesson in how "not" ride a horse. Smart horse, wish I could of seen that.

[ 11-27-2002, 02:01: Message edited by: Big Sky ]

I used the Hornady .375 270 grrain spire point on elk and they did not open up.

I loaded some Hornday .358 250 grain spire points in a 35 whelen for a friends moose hunt and they opened up great.

Russell, Rather than worry about your bullets, may I suggest an alternative method of killing MT big game...

Take your next MT trip in the Summer. The weather is much nicer that time of year and you won't have to bring the bibs. Schedule your destination for the Bitterroot Valley, south of Missoula. It's a nice, pretty place and there's a bunch of your old neighbors living there now, so you should fit right in.

Now, here's the key.. rent a 4WD truck and make sure it has a good cow-catcher on the front. Be sure to opt for the full collision insurance.

Now, the tactics: Drive south into the valley.. fast and enjoy the scenery. Try to hit Darby and Lolo at least 3 times each, every day.

Doing this for five days will certainly yield at least one doe, maybe more. The advantages... no licenses required, great weather and beautiful vistas, and no need to even get out of the vehicle. You'll save money and kill more animals.